I have a hard time with the gh also ..mine comes out like..'haley magdubi...'

Awesome to be sharing like this !

Well, lol, that was a challenge I thought I would take on. I don't get much call for Arabic phonetics, and there were symbols that refused to stay put here. I'm curious, is it easier to learn if you see it written in phonetics than it is just by hearing it?

I can barely type English . . .

I prefer to read it in arabic and hear it in arabic, but that is just me. Also, I can read in arabic just fine so that kind of helps.

I have found for some, it is definately helpful to memorize when seen phonetically. Seeing it this way, combined with audio brings it all together. And the goal for me is to get out newbies up and running for prayer.

Next on the agenda....a few short suras.

Jackie

I'm always happy to help, but don't really know what it's like to learn Arabic (or French), so I will defer to those who have had to.



Next on the agenda....a few short suras.

Which ones?

I don't read phonetics well because people have different ways of envisioning how something should be written out to mimmick pronunciation. Of course hearing and reading at the same time could be different. But that's just with Arabic. I've used Japanese phonetics before, as I don't know their alphabet/written language beyond some simple kanji but do know bare basic conversational Japanese.

may be we can start on suarh Al-Ikhlas:

Bismillah Ar-rahman ar-rahim

Qol howa Allahu Ahad

Allahu as-samad

Lam yalid wa lam yolad

Wa lam yakon laho kofowan ahad

I love to say this sura in my prayers. It is simple, beautiful and nice to say. It is a good pick for beginners to learn!

u re right!! becoz its the core of this whole religion; the base of everything... Allah is one with no partner n no son!

Jackie---you are right to be given it as you would say it and then also to hear it and see it read is what is helping me. I have two verses left now to memorize and I'm done learning it!!!! Every night my husband has me say it and he is now correcting me on my grammar with it. So just sitting with him and saying it over and over is helping me.

Ok, HLM---what does the surah mean that you posted? I'm at work or I would ask Ayman.

Another question for those of you who converted, did you pray every prayer in the beginning?

Aymsgirl:

Surat Ikhlas(purity) is one of the most importan surats in the Quran, after Fatiha, as it proclaims the Oneness (tawhid) of Allah.

Translation: He is Allah, the One and Only! Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him.

Surat Ikhlas is a short surah with a powerful message. The Holy Prophet has encouraged Muslims to recite this surah to purify their faith. It is said, that if you recite Ikhlas then it like you have recited one/third of the Quran ... so it is very important surat to recite in your salaat and du'uas.

"Anas reported the Prophet saying, "if anyone recites two hundred times daily, 'Say, He is God, One', the sins of fifty years will be wiped out, unless he is in debt." Tirmidhi and Darimi transmitted it. The latter's version has "fifty times" and he did not mention "unless he is in debt."

Of course, when you convert and start to pray you should/must pray each salaat ... you cannot pray the next until you have prayed the last ... buuut saying that ... you are allowed to take it slowly ... doing the movements, then reading the actual surats from a paper laid on the floor. No one can except you know every from the first day! And if you cannot pray the salaat on their times, then it is OK to pray them anytime until the next salaat. Ex: dohr was at let's say 12 but you could not pray it then ... so you have up until asr (which let's us is at 3pm) to pray it ... Only exception to this is Maghreb which you should pray when the sun goes down (the space between there is so limited so best to pay attention to this prayer)

And after the Al-Ikhlas surat ... Ayat Al-Kursi is the next important one to learn, as it considered the pinnacle of the Quran. And recited along with Al-Ikhlas and Al-Falaq as protection against Satan, magic and the evil eye.

Very good site to learn the ayat: http://www.mounthira.com/learning/ayat/alkursi/ayatulkursi/

Thanks Henia

You are very welcome! I hope all this comes easy and in due time to you!

I Just wanted to give a big to you girl and to all those who are helping!!!! This is sooo great... I'm excited for Ramadan to start!!!! I feel inspired!

No Tasha, I did not keep all 5 prayers when I was new to Islam. It takes adjustment and practice and most days you will pray extra when you get home. I am very happy to read that your husband is helping

Thank you, I appreciate the kind sentiment.



I don't think he's speaking to anyone, lol.




Scholars are human beings, and can fall into the same cesspits of nasty disagreement that all of us are suseptible to. However, there are some who rise above, and I'll look to those for my example of how to behave. Sh. Faraz Rabbani and Sh. Yasir Qadhi are friends. Sh. Faraz is about as traditionalist as they come, hanafi and a student of tasawwuf. Sh. Yasir is a saudi educated salafi. They spoke together at ISNA awhile back, and everyone was expecting a Friday Night smackdown kinda thing. But, they suprised everybody by holding a cordial discussion.




So what do you suggest for a convert? What programs/teachers/books would you recommend? Because that's what this is really all about, advising the converts on this thread where they can best learn the deen. We don't all have access to scores of teachers, and endless amounts of time and resources.

Even when I converted back at the beginning of this decade, there wasn't anything aside from what the salafis had to offer. If you wanted to have anything with a solid foundation, you picked up books by Bilal Phillips, or what someone gave you for free at the masjid from Dar us Salam.

That is why I am so thrilled that Sunnipath, and even it's more salafi-esque counterparts like Al Maghrib are available now. They're teachers with credentials, offering courses specifically for the newbie and the western muslim. Now a convert isn't just handed a stack of books and sent to a half @ss lecture or 2 at the mosque with an imam who was imported from the home country and doesn't speak english very well. No, now they have teachers are known, who are knowledgable, and who can speak understand their audience. These institutions seek to be comprehensive, teaching Islam, Iman and Ihsan, where as before there was a heavy emphasis on haram haram haram and not much else.

If you have an alternative to these institutions, I'd be interested to hear them.




There are two stereotypical camps converts fall into

Convertitis Type I
Convertitis Type II

The goal of those who call to Islam and do convert education should be to help the newbies navigate these two extremes and find the middle path. From my own, personal experience, I believe the best way to do this is through a more traditional approach to the religion, as opposed to what the first and second salafi dawah has done in the US in the last 3 decades.

When I want to learn a new surah, I find a decent, slow recitation and stick it on my ipod. Then I'll listen to it over and over and over again, sometimes reading along, until it's stuck in my head and I have it memorized. Every so often, I'll stop and check with the husband re: tajweed and pronunciation, to make sure that I'm not memorizing it incorrectly.


For the newbies, tajweed is how we recite the Qur'an, based on a set of rules. The Prophet (saws) recited the Qur'an in several different styles, and each of these styles have been preserved and codified. So, when you learn to recite the Qur'an with tajweed, you're reciting it as the Prophet (saws) recited it.

I know that it wasn't meant to be funny ( it really is true ) but these made me giggle , especially the first one. I have seen that so many times!!! Again a million thank you's for all of the wonderful information that you post and share!!!!!!

For me, what I found worked was writing down the surat on paper ... in language I could understand/phonetically. Then reviewing until I could recite it without looking at the paper.

But I think remembering the surats really depends on which learning style you have: visual, auditory ore kinesthetic.

When I first started to learn to pray, I had al-fatiha and the rest of the prayer parts written down and would place it in front of me in case I got lost - at the VERY begining, I had to litteraly read it from the paper.

There is a CD we give to all the new converts at my masjid: Pray as you have seen me Pray
I think it's kinda expensive since it's a DVD, probably about $20. I gave away my copy a long time ago, but I might be able to get ahold of another one if someone wants me to send it to them.

You can always find videos on utube I'm sure.

When I started praying, I had a good friend help me transliterate a few surahs and explain in detail the movements for praying. I wrote everything down as I heard it and then re-read it to him to make sure I wrote down properly enough that I'd say the words right.

THEN

I literally read thru each prayer for weeks. Then I saved it to my computer and would pull it up when I prayed coz It made it easier to view.

I'm still trying to learn the last part but working my way to it. It's definitely a slow process and I'm taking it one day at a time.


As Henia, I too find it easier to write it down and then read it aloud until I don't need the paper anymore. That's the best way for me.

I know I smile whenever I read it



You're very welcome. If someone else's journey can be made a bit easier through what I post, then it's all worth it

When I converted, a sister from texas sent me a set of prayer cards I found exceptionally helpful. It has a line of arabic, then a line of english. I'd read the arabic aloud, then the english silently. After a month or 2 of this, I could put the cards down, recite my prayers in arabic AND know what I was saying.

I've recreated the cards for others to use. You can download them here, or you can pm me your address and I'll print em out and send em to ya snailmail.

Wow!!!! No hiney kissing here, but just really wow girl!!! You're such a wonderful source of information and help!!! New and not so new Muslimahs( like myself) are benefiting so much here!! fi amen allah wa incha allah labes inti dimaa..... Many rewards for your great work!

[/quote]

Actually, the belief that Muslim women can marry only Muslim men is not derived from Islam, but from fiqh law based on cultural norms arising from the wars and animosity between Muslims and non-Muslims. Unfortunately, fiqh is not always Islamic; it is the fallible attempt by scholars and jurists to forge the wishes of individual societies into paradigms that make social sense, but not always spiritual sense. It is impossible to explain the reasoning behind this law without (a) insulting the competence and autonomy of all Muslimas; ( asserting that Muslim men superior to all other human beings; © distorting Quranic law; and/or (d) subordinating women to all men. Try to do it without having to engage one of those. You can't. You also must ignore Muslim history.

During the Prophet's time, there were Muslim women who converted many years before their husbands, inculding the Prophet's own daughter, Zainab, and the parents of the ahadith transmitter Ibn Abbas. His mother was the second woman to convert to Islam after the Prophet's revelations, but his father did not convert for 20 years after his wife. Also, Aisha was engaged to a Christian man by her father, Abu Bakr, a close companion of the Prophet and the first Caliph, before that engagement was withdrawn so she could marry Muhammad. He would not have done such a thing if it was forbidden by Allah.

There is nothing in the Quran nor the Sunnah disallowing Muslim women from interfaith marriage with kitabi men. This is a perversion of the law that is being reexamoined and challenged, much along the line of manadatory headcovering, honor killings, obedience to husbands before God, slavery, polygamy for a man's pleasure, and the belief that Muslims are God's chosen people. One must be careful to understand the origins of fiqh and beliefs, and discern whether they have roots in Allah's law or in man's law. The distinction is essential for anyone that wants to remain true to the Word, for our alliegence is to Allah, not to mortal desires.

I am a born Arab Muslima was married to a Christian man for 30 years. I broke none of Allah's laws in doing so. Nor have any of my sisters who have learned that such prohibition is not of God, but from the unIslamic desire of men to rule over women. We pray for the suffering of Muslims who are lead astray by this rule. May Allah guide us all.
[/quote]

VW; wd u plz add the hadiths for this part becoz i dont know them. Thank you

I agree with Ash! Thank you again!!

I'm all teary eyed reading this 'cause that's what you gave me so that I could learn too. I had to read them from the paper for a month I think before I could say them on my own and now I can say them in my sleep! lol.

I'll be happy to help you with that, sis! Be patient with me, please, cause I don't have the sources memorized.

I haven't missed your post to me, Rahma. I'll get to them, I'm a bit pressed for time tonight.

An interesting article:

"Muslims Try to Balance Traditions, U.S. Culture on Path to Marriage"

By Michelle Boorstein ("Washington Post", May 27, 2008)

As imam of one of the Washington region's largest mosques, Mohamed Magid counsels married couples, including those with a problem he sees among Muslim Americans: husbands and wives who were virtual strangers before they wedded.

Islamic practice bans unsupervised dating, and in transient 2008 America, traditional Muslims may wind up far from families who once oversaw the connection of two single people. Many African American Muslims are converts and do not have Muslim relatives who can help with the process.

A few years ago, Magid, imam of the All Dulles Area Muslim Society in Sterling, started something new: required premarital counseling for people who marry at the mosque. His wife recently launched a singles program meant to honor modesty and cut to the chase: participants meet in groups to discuss scriptural problems, read stories, and make lists of what they think are the most important characteristics for a Muslim wife or husband in the United States.

Although premarital counseling and singles programs are common for some faith groups, they are new in U.S. mosques, placing Magid and his wife on the vanguard of a drive to update Muslim practices and institutions surrounding marriage. The movement stems from concern among many Muslim American leaders that families are not keeping up with cultural changes, leading people to divorce and marry multiple times, or become alienated either from Islam or from mainstream American life.

Key issues include what Islam says about interfaith marriage, how well Muslims can know each another before they marry, and what the modern version is of a "wali," or guardian, a figure in Islam who is supposed to help women pick the right husbands.

"Generation gaps, cultural differences when people from the United States marry someone from overseas, interfaith marriage -- the issue of marriage is one of the most important in Islam here right now," Magid said. "Anytime there is a program at the mosque about these things, it's completely packed."

A commonly discussed problem is the surplus of single Muslim women. This stems partly from Islamic practice's broader acceptance of men marrying outside the faith than women.

Daisy Khan, a New York activist who counsels couples with her husband, an imam, organized a Valentine's Day event for singles -- 15 men and 63 women attended. Although she used to feel torn about interfaith marriage, she is now concerned that women will either be left unmarried or leave their faith. She tries to connect Muslim couples but also thinks pious Muslim women should be able to marry non-Muslims who also are pious.

"It's my obligation to shift a little, to give a little because it's important for them to stay within the faith," she said. "You have to clear up the mandate of: What is God's mission? I see God's hand in this."

In a Pew Research Center poll of Muslim Americans released last year, 54 percent of women said interfaith marriage is acceptable, compared with 70 percent of men.

Marriage practices are a growing issue among Muslims in part because melding into the mainstream is increasingly their goal, experts said. This is true for many first- and second-generation Muslims and U.S.-born converts. It is a complex balance, however, testing relations between parents and children and within new couples.

Many Muslim dating and marriage traditions exist to promote sexual reserve, particularly among women, but in 2008, separation between potential mates has lost its cultural moorings.

"It creates these experiences of weirdness where you're more comfortable with [non-Muslim] John at work than Mohamed" at the mosque, said Zarinah El Amin-Naeem, 28, an anthropologist.

The Muslim Alliance in North America, a national group made up largely of prominent black Muslims, held its first national conference in the fall and named marriage reform as one of its top priorities. A concern is the rush into marriage, either to have sex or because structures that once screened potential spouses, such as close-knit, large families and cultural isolation, have diminished.

"In Islamic culture there is no dating and no kind of middle ground, so the sense is, if this person is a good person, let's get married. The impulse isn't to prolong a courting relationship. Our advocacy is it needs to be prolonged somewhat," said Ihsan Bagby, co-founder of the Muslim Alliance in North America.

Issues related to marriage play out differently across the Muslim American community. The problem of strangers marrying is more common among African American Muslims than among immigrant families because many are converts and might not have families involved in their faith lives, experts said. Tensions surrounding interfaith marriages are more common among Muslims from South Asia, who tend to be more traditional, than those from Africa or Turkey.

And, of course, many Muslims are secular or are liberal about their faith, perhaps using a Muslim dating Web site such as naseeb.com but not agonizing over premarital sex or seeking a wali. Even for non-observant Muslims, however, "when it comes to the issue of marriage, because Muslim families tend to be so involved, there is more tradition involved than in other aspects of their lives," said Dalia Mogahed, executive director of the Gallup Center for Muslim Studies.

Interfaith marriage is a huge topic with wide cultural ramifications. Because Islamic tradition, not law, holds that a Muslim man can intermarry but not a woman, a substantial gender gap in the dating pool has opened as children and grandchildren of immigrants have grown up.

The Koran says for Muslims to marry "believers," the meaning of which has long been the source of great debate but has been widely interpreted to include Christians and Jews. Although the Koran does not address the gender issue directly, tradition has held that women are more easily subjugated, and therefore a Muslim woman in an interfaith marriage could be forced by a Christian or Jew to live and raise her children outside of Islam, while a Muslim man in an interfaith relationship would be able to control the household's faith.

Abdullahi Ahmed An-Na'im, an Islamic family law expert at Emory University, argues that gender dynamics have changed in a way that makes interfaith marriage more reasonable under Islamic tradition. "In social reality today, men are not dominant in the marriage relationship. The rationale of historic rule is no longer valid," he said. "But people are not willing to accept this. This is a major source of tensions."

Qur'an Shakir, who runs national Muslim dating events and writes a column on Muslim dating, said a lot of people debate the value of a dowry today, even as a symbolic commitment, while others think that the position of wali should be updated to be more like a relationship mentor and less like a guardian, and that men should have walis, too.

"People need to be open to different interpretations of the Koran," she said.

take ur time sister im here

Another good book for the disillusioned is Believing as Ourselves. Newbies needent read it right off the bat, but if anyone ever feels fed up with the community, this is the book to read. You are not alone.

I Just wanted to share these youtube videos, they are GREAT to go along with Rahma's cards which are also wonderful!

This is done in a step by step way and I think is great for those learning to pray and who need something visual. Also in English (the man narrating sounds Australian, so very easy to follow.


Source for all instructional videos : http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=85A0EC87D924601C

Step-by-Step Guide to Prayer 1/7 (Intro & Wudu)
Blueprint productions & IISNA present "Step-by-Step How to Pray". In this part (1)is a short introduction to Salat, the second pillar of Islam. It gives information on how to perform wudu (abulution) as well.




Step-by-Step Guide to Prayer 2/7 (Reminders)
Blueprint productions & IISNA present "Step-by-Step How to Pray". In this part (2)are some important reminders for Salat.



Step-by-Step Guide to Prayer 3/7 (Fajr)
In this part (3)is how to perform the first prayer which is "Fajr".

In this part (4)is how to perform the second prayer, which is "Dhur"




In this part (5)is how to perform the third prayer which is "Asr".




In this part (6)is how to perform the fourth prayer which is "Maghreb".





Another version, some problems in the first one :
In this part (5)is how to perform the fifth prayer which is Isha

I just wanted to add, this may help some with pronunciation if you are following the cards that Rahma generously shared. They are following slowly, and you could listen, have your cards to read in arabic phonetic, as she gave, and the English translation, but use this to listen to them being said in Arabic and also watching as the motions are being made.

I like this one too

( just hit home as I was currently debating with someone regarding this same topic and I really like the message here)



Muslim Woman Can Pray in Masjid - Do Not Stop Them

This book is . A friend sent this to me right after I said shahada and it was the first thing I read really helping me to understand some things about myself and dispelled many fears I had of not being a "perfect" Muslim. I highly recommend it to anyone, but specially for new converts. I was really "put off" by the community I had met for the most part and this really enlightened me.

Loved the book too.... i have it in my ever increasing Islamic library...

stupid question here but how would i know which "sect" of Islam I am????? how do you know which one you identify with if ???

I had no idea when i said my Shahada that there were so many branches?? crazy me

I'm not sure how you go about "choosing one" I would imagine by more in depth study - although some are what they are because of their families, or where they grew up, etc... But here's a brief over view ...


According to the Traditions, Muhammad predicted that his followers would become divided into seventy-three sects, every one of whom would go to hell, except one sect, the religion professed by himself and his companions. However the number of Islamic sects, now over 150, has far exceeded Muhammad's prediction.



Summaries of the major sects within Islam

Sunni Muslims

Sunni Muslims are followers of the Hanifa, Shafi, Hanibal and Malik Schools. They constitute a 90% majority of the believers in Islam, and are considered to be mainstream traditionalists. Because they are comfortable pursuing their faith within secular societies, they have been able to adapt to a variety of national cultures, while following their three sources of law: the Qur'an, Hadith and consensus of Muslims.



The Sunnis are by far the largest sect in the Muslim world. They take the title of Najiyah, meaning those who are being saved. They acknowledge the first four Khalifs as the rightful successors of Muhammad. They received the "six correct books" and belong to one of the schools of jurisprudence founded by the four Imams.



The Sunni emphasize the power and sovereignty of Allah and his right to do whatever he wants with his creation, as strict predeterminism is taught. Its rulership is through the Caliphate, the office of Muslim ruler who is considered the successor to Muhammad. This successor is not through hereditary lineage. The Sunni believe, based on specific provisions of the Qur'an and the Sunna, that the Muslim people are to be governed by consensus (ijma') through an elected head of state, the khalifa, according to democratic principles.



Shi'ite Muslims

The Shi'ites (also known as the Ja'firi school) split with the Sunni over the issue of the successor to Muhammad. This split occurred after the assassination of the fourth caliph in 661. Shi'ites believe that the successor to Muhammad should have been Ali, his son in law, and that subsequent successors should have been through his lineage through his wife Fatima. The shi'ites strenuously maintain that they alone are right in their understanding of Islam, and like the Sunnis, they call themselves "al-Muminun," or the "true believers." They believe in the divine right of the successors of 'Ali. His rightful successor is now concealed, they say, but will appear at the end of the world as the "Mahdi," the one rightly guided by Allah, thus able to guide others. They reject the "six correct books" of the Sunnis, and have five collections of their own.



Shi'ism is broken into three main sects. The Twelve-Imam (Persia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Pakistan, and Syria); the Zaydis (Yemen); the Ismailis (India, Iran, Syria, and East Africa). Each group has differences of doctrine.



Shi'ite theology includes a doctrine known as the five supports. These are Divine Unity (tawhid), prophecy (nubuwwah), resurrection of the soul and body at the judgment (ma'ad), the Imamate (imamah), and justice ('adl). The first three are found in Sunni Islam, albeit with some differences of emphasis. The Imamate, however, is the essence of Shi'ism, and the last, justice, is an inheritance from the Mu'tazilites, or rationalists, whose system is in many ways perpetuated in shi'ite theology.



Shi'ites are numerous in Iran, where they have deposed the Shah and in his place, installed the Ayatollah Khomeini and enforced Islamic law as the rule of the government. Khomeini has gone beyond that by declaring that his command is ### good as that of the prophet Muhammad.



Wahhabis

The founder of the Wahhabi sect was 'Abd al-Wahhab, born in Nefd in A.D. 1691. He maintained that the Muslims had departed from the precepts of Muhammad. He accepted only the Quran and the Traditions, rejecting the two other foundations, Ijma and Qiyas. He condemned the worship of dead holy men at tombs. He said, "They run there to pay the tribute of their fervent prayers. By this means they think that they can satisfy their spiritual and temporal needs. From what do they seek this benefit? From walls made of mud and stone, from corpses deposited in tombs. the true way of salvation is to prostrate one's self before Him who is ever-present and to venerate Him - the one without associate or equal."



The war cry of the Wahhabis was "Kill and strangle all infidels which give companions to Allah." On the day of battle, the Wahhabi founder gave each soldier a letter addressed to the Treasurer of Paradise. It was enclosed in a bag which the warrior suspended from his neck. The soldier believed that by dying in battle he would go straight to Paradise, without being examined by the angels Munkar and Nakir. Many Iranian prisoners today have confided to their Iraqi captors that they were duped into hanging a small Quran around their necks so they would become invisible in battle and not be seen by their enemies.



The Wahhabis condemn astrology, trusting in omens, and believing in lucky or unlucky days, as well as praying at tombs. They disallow the use of a rosary but attach great merit to counting the ninety-nine names of God on their fingers.



Suffis

The meaning of the name Suffi is disputed. Suffis are a Muslim sect that have set aside the literal meaning of the words of Muhammad for a supposed spiritual interpretation. Their system is a Muslim adaptation of the Indian Vedantic philosophy. They believe that only Allah exists. All visible things are really distinct from Him. There is no real difference between good and evil. Allah fixes the will of man. In fact, transmigration is accepted. The principal occupation of the Suffi is meditation on the unity of God and the remembrance of God's name so as to obtain absolution.



Suffis are most numerous in Iran, once called Persia. The three chief Persian poets, Jami, Sa'di, and Hafiz were Suffis who dwelt on love to God. Many of the writings of the Persian Suffis contain indecent passages. The Suffis are divided into innumerable sects which find expression in the numerous order of Faqirs, or Darweshes. Faqirs are divided into two great classes, those who govern their conduct according to the principles of Islam and those who do not, although they all call themselves Muslims.

Bahaiism

The Bahai sect began with a man who was born in 1817 in Tehran, Persia, and whose real name was Mirza Hussayn Ali. In 1847 he declared that he was the glory of Allah, "Bahau Allah" from two Arabic words. His acquaintance with a religious movement led by a man called the Bab(Gate) convinced him that he himself was the prophet that the Bab had predicted would appear.



In 1850, the Persian government executed the Bab for his teachings, and Mirza took over the leadership of the movement. In 1863, ten years after he was banished to Baghdad, Bahau Allah declared he was the expected prophet. From 1868 until his death in 1892, he lived in a prison colony in what is now Akka, Israel. He tried to unite the three monotheistic religions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam through his writings, which comprise 100 volumes.



Bahais believe in good works, nondiscrimination, and a federated world government. Their headquarters are in Haifa, Israel, and they have over 17,000 local counsels, called local spiritual assemblies, with 1,500,000 adherents. Ten percent of them live in India.

By default, I would say you will probably follow (if any) the Maliki tradition since your husband is Moroccan and *most* (not all) Moroccans follow the Maliki school of fiqh.

I would tend to say, however, that may not be the case for everyone. Just my 2 cents.

wow Ash habitik that was very informative...

I asked my husband what he is or follows.. is reply "just normal Islam" lol okkkkk but i noticed when there we had a lot of back and forth over what i read and doing versus what they did and doing
ie.... I read we are to only show our hands and face so wore socks with my shoes.... when there the women asked "Rajaa why do you wear socks on such a hot day?" I said I am only to show my face and hands right? Ohhhh you thought i just questioned the propeht (pbuh) himself

the conversation was divided in english, french and arabic back and forth back and forth when finally a woman came in and said... she is right it is Maqroob (spelling?) I wasn't sure but they all agreed... my husband came home and i asked him "are you ok if i wear sandles with no socks out side of the home?" he said... with thought "yes I am but only show to your ankle"

not sure if that helps which "branch" but I am here in the U.S. and find we're more "hard" as my husband puts it than they are there.

any ideas?

oooh and when i questioned him about hijab not specifically being in the Qu'ran he was confused...

Ash * Habibati, I'd like to clarify a few of those sect classifications:

Sufis - not a sect. Tasawwuf (translated into english as sufism) is an islamic science. Following the death of the Prophet (saws), different disciplines were codified into sciences, so that future generations could have a framework from which to work and interpret the Qur'an and the traditions of the Prophet. These sciences include, among others, fiqh (jurisprudence, the halal and the haram and everything in between), hadith (classification as to soundness, the trustworthiness of the narrators, etc), kalam (theology) and tasawwuf, the inner science of the heart.

When one decides to study the religion, they can chose from any number of disciplines and sciences. Some become scholars of hadith, others scholars of kalam, and still others study tasawwuf. Being a sufi does not negate one being a sunni or a shia. One is a sunni or a shia who studies/practices tasawwuf.

There are some "goofy soofis" out there who believe that they've reached such a high plain that they are allowed to ignore the sharia. These people may say that they don't need to make salat anymore, among other spurious claims. This is a load of baloney. The Prophet Muhammad (saws) is the role model a sufi should want to imitate, the person who was the closest to Allah (swt), and he always prayed, always strove to follow what Allah (swt) had commanded.

The best explananation of what sufism is is found in a hadith qudsi (a hadith that is the words of Allah, not the Prophet) recorded in bukhari:



A sufi strives to follow the sacred law, to increase his/her acts of worship and good deeds, in an attempt to submit in their utmost to Allah (swt). When they are striving to please Allah (swt), Allah (swt) draws them close to Him.

Sh. Nuh Keller wrote about the place of tasawwuf in islam. It is probably a little bit technical, but it clearly rebuts the idea that sufism is seperate and apart from what is mainstream islam.



Bahai's - not a sect, rather a seperate religion. While they came out of the shia tradition, they do not call themselves a sect of Islam, but rather a continuation of the revelation that all Prophets have revealed. BahauAllah is the next "manifestation of God" following the Prophet Muhammad (saws).

Interesting...I have read it before but it was just sent to me again in email.

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Woman's Reflection on Leading Prayer

By: Yasmin Mogahed
Friday, March 25, 2005

'Given my privilege as a woman, I only degrade Myself by trying to be something I'm not--and in all honesty--don't want to be: a man. As women, we will never reach true liberation until we stop trying to mimic men, and value the beauty in our own God-given distinctiveness.'

On March 18, 2005 Amina Wadud led the first female-led Jumuah (Friday) prayer. On that day women took a huge step towards being more like men. But, did we come closer to actualizing our God given liberation? I Don't think so.

What we so often forget is that God has honored the woman by giving her value in relation to God not in relation to men. But as western feminism erases God from the scene, there are no standard left but men. As a result the western feminist is forced to find her value in relation to a man. And in so doing she has accepted a faulty assumption. She has accepted that man is the standard, and thus a woman can never be a full human being until she becomes just like a man-the standard.

When a man cut his hair short, she wanted to cut her hair short. When a man joined the army, she wanted to join the army. She wanted these things for no other reason than because the 'standard' had it. What she didn't recognize was that God dignifies both men and women in their distinctiveness—not their sameness. And on March 18, Muslim women made the very same mistake.

For 1400 years there has been a consensus of the scholars that men are to lead prayer. As a Muslim woman, why does this matter? The one who leads prayer is not spiritually superior in any way. Something is not better just because a man does it. And leading prayer is not better, just because it's leading. Had it been the role of women or had it been more divine, why wouldn't the Prophet have asked Ayesha or Khadija, or Fatima-the greatest women of all time-to lead?

These women were promised heaven-and yet they never lead prayer.

But now for the first time in 1400 years, we look at a man leading prayer and we think, 'That's not fair.' We think so although God has given no special privilege to the one who leads. The imam is no higher in the eyes of God than the one who prays behind.

On the other hand, only a woman can be a mother. And God has given special privilege to a mother. The Prophet taught us that heaven lies at the feet of mothers. But no matter what a man does he can never be a mother. So why is that not unfair?

When asked who is most deserving of our kind treatment? The Prophet replied 'your mother' three times before saying 'your father' only once.

And yet even when God honors us with something uniquely feminine, we are too busy trying to find our worth in reference to men, to value it-or even notice. We too have accepted men as the standard; so anything uniquely feminine is, by definition, inferior. Being sensitive is an insult, becoming a mother-a degradation.

In the battle between stoic rationality (considered masculine) and self-less compassion (considered feminine), rationality reigns supreme.

As soon as we accept that everything a man has and does is better, all that follows is just a knee jerk reaction: if men have it-we want it too. If men pray in the front rows, we assume this is better, so we want to pray in the front rows too. If men lead prayer, we assume the imam is closer to God, so we want to lead prayer too. Somewhere along the line we've accepted the notion that having a position of worldly leadership is some indication of one's position with God.

A Muslim woman does not need to degrade herself in this way. She has God as a standard. She has God to give her value; she doesn't need a man.

In fact, in our crusade to follow men, we, as women, never even stopped to examine the possibility that what we have is better for us. In some cases we even gave up what was higher only to be like men.

Fifty years ago, society told us that men were superior because they left the home to work in factories. We were mothers. And yet, we were told that it was women's liberation to abandon the raising of another human being in order to work on a machine. We accepted that working in a factory was superior to raising the Foundation of society -just because a man did it.

Then after working, we were expected to be superhuman-the perfect mother, the perfect wife, the perfect homemaker -and have the perfect career. And while there is nothing wrong, by definition, with a woman having a career, we soon came to realize what we had sacrificed by blindly mimicking men. We watched as our children became strangers and soon recognized the privilege we'd given up.

And so only now-given the choice-women in the West are choosing to stay home to raise their children.

According to the United States Department of Agriculture, only 31 percent of mothers with babies, and 18 percent of mothers with two or more children, are working full-time. And of those working mothers, a survey conducted by Parenting Magazine in 2000, found that 93% of them say they would rather be home with their kids, but are compelled to work due to 'financial obligations'. These 'obligations' are imposed on women by the gender sameness of the modern West, and removed from women by the gender distinctiveness of Islam.

It took women in the West almost a century of experimentation to realize a privilege given to Muslim women 1400 years ago.

Given my privilege as a woman, I only degrade myself by trying to be something I'm not--and in all honesty--don't want to be: a man. As women, we will never reach true liberation until we stop trying to mimic men, and value the beauty in our own God-given distinctiveness.

If given a choice between stoic justice and compassion, I choose compassion. And if given a choice between worldly leadership and heaven at my feet - I choose Heaven.

I stand corrected! That was a copy/paste from a website to give her an over view or explain various sects/schools of thought. She'll have to do her own research and find out what identifies with her beliefs.... Or follow Islam as her husband follows it which is what I think I understood from the previous post! Thanks for the information

Most converts tend to fall into practicing sunni islam purely by default. It is what is presented as "this is islam" to those who ask. If there isn't a lot of talk about the imams, and marja and speaking about the companions and wives of the Prophet (saws) in a negative light, it's pretty safe to assume you're not practicing shia islam.




I went to school with her. Sorry, just had to interject that. It's just so weird to see how far and wide this article has gotten

I have seen a lot of Tunisians come to the US as Sunni Muslims and later after going to the mosques here and making Muslim friends here, change their school of thought to shii ... I was always curious about why but never brave enough to ask

It's no problem. Sufism gets a bad rap among a lot of muslims who believe it's all bida (innovation) and shirk (associated partners with Allah), and the perception among many non muslims is that they're hippy universalists who really don't have anything to do with islam. Granted, there is the hippy universalist subset, and those who's practices do contain shirk, but for the most part, tasawwuf is a traditional islamic science that one practices along with the others.

The article is an email chain I assume...every year I end up with it in my inbox.