Gotta question..... about men and their beards??? Where does it say that a man should wear a beard with a fist full? I know I saw it somewhere now can't find it?

What I found...

First: Fistful Beard

The following is reported in a hadith narrated by Imam Bukhari (RA):

“Oppose the Mushrikeen! Lengthen the beards and shorten the moustaches. When Hazrat Ibn Umar (RA) used to go for Hajj or ‘Umrah, he would take hold of his beard in his fist. Whatever amount of the beard was in excess of the fist, he would trim it.” (Bukhari vol. 2, pg. 875)

In another hadith the following words are used:

“Make the moustaches extremely short and lengthen the beards.” (Bukhari Vol. 2, pg. 875)

It is wajib to keep a beard to the extent of one fist just as it is wajib to perform witr salah, and the two ‘eid salats. All the four imams agree on this issue. Allamah Shaami writes:

“To trim the beard when it is shorter than one fist in length as practiced by some people of the west and the hermaphrodites, has not been permitted by anyone i.e. any scholar.”

Hazrat Thanwi (RA) writes in Behishti Zewar (Heavenly Ornaments), “It is haram to shave the beard as well as to trim it less than the length of one fist.” (Behishti Zewar section 11, pg. 115)

The word for beard in Arabic is lihyah which comes from the Arabic word for jaw. Therefore, the beard should be to the extent of one fist from the chin, the right side of the jaw, and the left side of the jaw, i.e. it should be the length of a fist from all three sides. Some people grow the beard to one fist from the chin but trim it to less than a fist from the sides. This is incorrect. If any one of the three sides of the beard has been shortened less than a fist, then this is a major sin.

Same thing I found Thanks Nawal!

wow that's what i was looking for... my husband and I were discussing it versus the hijab.. he says the beard is "sunnah" and the hijab is "forjd" ??? not sure what he was saying does anyone have any insight to this?

and what is the (RA) mean?

Meaning his arguement is its a cultural thing for the beard and a religious requirment for hijab. There are many different views.

hummmmmm shoukran sister

RA- means "Radya Allahu anhu"= may Allah be pleased with him. As a duaa for the companion of the prophet when mentioned.

I was watching on tv the other day the story about Job (Ayoub) and though it was the biblical story, it really touched me. I found the Islamic version of his story and it is nearly the same. It made me think of those of us waiting so long to be with our SOs and the patience it takes. Also, this being the month of Ramadan, I think it is nice to share these stories, so I hope it helps some of you to remember as it did me.

The Story of Prophet Job (Ayoub)

Allah the Almighty praised His worshipper Job in His Glorious Quran:

"Truly! We found him patient. How excellent a slave! Verily, he was ever
oft-returning in repentance to Us"
Quran 38:44

Job was repentant, remembering Allah with thankfulness, patience and
steadfastness. This was the cause of his rescue and the secret of Allah's
praising him.

A group of angels were discussing Allah's other human creatures, how those
who were humble earned Allah's displease, while those who were arrogant
incurred His displeasure. One of the angels remarked:

"The best creature on earth today is Job, a man of noble character who
displays excellent patience and always remembers his Generous Lord. He is an
excellent model for the worshippers of Allah. In return, his Lord has
blessed him with a long life and plenty of riches, yet he is never haughty
or selfish. His family, his servants, as well as the needy and the poor
share in his good fortune; he feeds and clothes the poor and buys slaves to
set them free. He makes those who receive his charity feel as if they are
favouring him, so kind and gentle is he."

Iblis, overhearing all this, became annoyed. He planned to tempt Job to
corruption and disbelief, so he hastened to him. He tried to distract Job
from his prayers by whispering to him about the good things in life, but Job
was a true believer and would not let evil thoughts tempt him. This
distrubed Iblis more; thus he began to hate Job even more.

Iblis complained to Allah about Job. He said that althought he was
continously glorifying Allah, he was not doing so out of his sincerity but
to satisfy Allah so that his wealth should not be taken away. It was all a
show, all out of greed. "If You remove his wealth then You will find that
his tongue will no longer mention Your name and his praying will stop."

Allah told Iblis that Job was one of His most sincere devotees. He did not
worship Him because of the favors; his worship stemmed from his heart and
had nothing to do with material things. But to prove Iblis the depth of Job'
s sincerity and patience, Allah allowed him to do whatever he and his
helpers wished with Job's wealth.

Iblis was very happy. He gathered his helpers and set about destroying Job's
cattle, servants, and farms until he was left with no posessions. Rubbing
his hands in glee, Iblis appeared before Job in the guise of a wise old man
and said to him:

"All your wealth is lost. Some people say that it is because yo ugave too
much charity and that you are wasting your time with your continous prayers
to Allah. Others say that Allah has bought this upon you in order to please
your enemies. If Allah had the capacit to prevent harm, then He would have
protected your wealth"

True to his belief, Job replied:

"What Allah has taken away from me belongs to Him. I was only its trustee
for a while. He gives to whom He wills and witholds from whom He wills"

With these words, Job again prostrated to his Lord.

When Iblis saw this, he felt frustrated, so he again addressed Allah:

"I have stripped Job of all his posessions, but he still remains grateful to
You. However, he is only hiding his dissapointment, for he places great
store by his many children. The real test of a parent is through him
children. You will then see how Job will reject You"

Allah granted Iblis authority, but warned him that it would not reduce Job's
faith in his Lord nor his patience.

Iblis again gathered his helpers and set about his evol deeds. He shook the
foundation of the house in which Job's children were living and sent the
building crashing, killing all of them. Then he went to Job disguised as a
man who had come to sympathise with him. In a comforting tone he said to
Job:

"The circumstances under which your children died were sad. Surely, your
Lord isnot rewarding youproperly for all your prayers?"

Having said this Iblis waited anxiously, hoping Job was now ready to reject
Allah. But again Job dissapointed him by replying:

"Allah sometimes gives and sometimes takes. He is sometimes pleased and
sometimes displeased with our deeds. Whether a thing is beneficial or
harmful to me, I will remain firm in my belief and remain thankful to my
Creator"

Then Job prostrated to his Lord. At this Iblis was extremely vexed. Iblis
again called on Allah:

"O my Lord, Job's wealth is gone, his children are dead, but he is still
healthy in body, and as long as he enjoys good health he will continue to
worship You in the hope of regaining his wealth and producing more children.
Grant me authority over his body so that I may weakne it. He will surely
neglect worshipping You and withh thus becomes disobedient"

Allah wanted to teach Iblis a lesson that Job was a devoted servant of his
Lord, so He granted Iblis his third request but placed a condition:

"I give you authority over his body but not over his soul, intellect, or
heart, for in these places reside the knowledge of Me and My religion"

Armed with this new authority, Iblis began to take revenge on Job's body
andfilled it with diseas until it was reduced to mere skin and bone qnd he
suffered severe pain. But through all the suffering Job remeined string in
his faith, patiently bearing all the hardships without complaining. Allah's
righteous servant did not despair or turn to others for help but remained
hopeful of Allah's Mercy. Even close relatives and friends deserted him.
Only his kind loving wife stayed with him. In his hour of need, she showered
her kindness on him and cared for him. She remained his sole companion and
comforter through many years of his suffering.

Ibn Asaker narrated:

"Job was a man having much wealth of all kinds: beasts, slaves, sheep, vast
lands of Haran and many children. All those favors were taken from him and
he was physically afflicted as well. Never a single orga was sound except
his heart and tongue, with both of which he glorified Allah, the Almighty
all the time day and night. His disease lasted for a long time until his
visitors felt disgusted with him. His friend kept away from him, and people
abstained from visiting him. No one felt sympathy for him except his wife.
She took good care of him, knowing his former charity and pity for her"

Therefore, Iblis became desperate. He consulted his helpers but they could
not advise him. They asked:

"How is it that your cleverness cannot work against Job, yet you succeeded
in misleading Adam, the father of man, out of paradise?"

Iblis went to Job's wife in the form of a man. "Where is your husband?" he
asked her.

She pointed to an almost lifeless form crumpled on the bed and said: "There
he is, suspended between life and death."

Iblis reminded her of the days when Job had good health, wealth and
children. Suddenly, the painful memory of yeas of hardship overcame her, and
she burst into tears. She said to Job:

"How long are you goinng to bear this torture from our Lord? Are we to
remain without wealth, children or friends forever? Why don't you call upon
Allah to remove this suffering?"

Job sighed, and in a soft voice replied:

"Iblis must have whispered to you and made you dissatisfied. Tell me, how
long did I enjoy good health and riches?"

She replied, "For eighty years"

Then Job asked, "How long am I suffering like this?"

She said, "for seven years"

Then Job told her:

"In that case I am ashamed to call on my Lord to remove the hardship, for I
have not suffered longer than the years of good health and plenty. It seems
yourfaith has weakened and you are dissatisfied with the fate of Allah. If I
everreagin health, I swear I will punish you with a hundred strokes! From
this day onward, I forbid myself to eat or drink anything from your hand.
Leave me alone and let my Lord do with me as He pleases."

Crying bitterly and with a heavy heart, she had no choice but to leave him
and seek shelter elsewhere. In his helpless state, Job turned to Allah,
notto complain but to seek His mercy:

"Verily, dsitress has seized me, and You and the Most Merciful of all those
who show Mercy. So We answered his call, and We removed the distress that
was on him, and We restored his family to him (that he had lost) and the
like thereof along with them - as a mercy from Ourselves and a Reminder for
all who whorship Us"
Quran 21:83-84

Almighty Allah also instructed:

"Commemorate Our servant Job behold he cried to his Lord: "The Evil One has
afflicted me with distress and suffering"! (The command was given:) "Strike
with thy foot: here is (water) wherein to wash cool and refreshing and
(water) to drink." And We gave him (back) his people and doubled their
number as a Grace from Ourselves and a thing for commemoration for all who
have Understanding."
Quran 38:41-43

Job obeyed, and almost immediately his good health was restored. Meanwhile,
his faithful wife could no longer bear to be parted from her husband and
returned to beg his forgiveness, desiring to serve him. On entering he
house, she was amazed at the sudden change: Job was again healthy! She
embraced him and thanked Allah for His mercy.

Job was now worried, for he had taken an oath to punish her with a hundred
strokes if he regained health, but he had no desireto hurt her. He knew if
he did not fulfill the oath, he would be guilty of breaking a promise to
Allah. Therefore, in His wisdom and mercy, Allah came to the assistance of
His faithful servant, and advised him:

"And take in your hand a bundle of thin grass and strike therewith (your
wife), and break not your oath. Truly we found him patient. How excellent a
slave! Verily, he was ever oft-returning in repentance to Us"
Quran 38:44

Abu Huraira (ra) narrated that the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) said:

"While Job was naked, taking a bath, a swarm of locusts fell on him, and he
started collecting them in his garment. His Lord called him: 'O Job! Have I
not made you too rich to need what you see?' He said: 'Yes, O Lord! But I
cannot shun Your Blessings"
(Bukhari)

Masha Allah! Thank you so much for sharing!! i needed it myself

it may very well be that there are many different views, but defining sunnah as just a "cultural thing" is rather unorthodox. that's how you view it?

I would think it would depend on what the sunnah thing is which is being discussed. Eating on the floor is Sunnah, but it's just part of the MENA culture in general. Camel usage is sunnah, same thing plus the addition of temporal and geographic availability and necessity.

Sunnah refers to tradition. The Sunnah of the Prophet is the traditions of the Prophet, but there can be sunnah that is general in nature and deriving from Arab practice or the Prophet's personal preferences, not related to Islam.

For example, the Prophet loved honey, but that doesn't mean other Muslims must love honey. However, if the Prophet taught that something is ordered by Allah, and demonstrated how to interpret the order, that Sunnah is fard, or obligatory.

Headcovering could be considered a cultural sunnah in that it was practiced prior to the advent of Islam in the Arab world. It could also be considered to be fard due to later fiqh interpretations that defined the khimar (Q 24:31) to mean headcovering and relied on the evolution of headcovering practice among early Muslims from a loose covering over the head to concealment of the hair and chest.

It was also sunnah to use clothing to distinguish the awrat (zones of physical modesty) of free women from that of slave women. Slave women, Muslim or not, were not allowed to cover their body other than between the navel and the knees in public. Free women were to cover from head to foot in order to be recognized as free and not molested (Q 33:59).

Proper dress is not clearly defined in the Quran, but is discussed at greater length in ahadith and fiqh. Hijab is not the term used in the Quran to refer to dress, but refers to barriers or things that provide a spiritual shield. One can argue that headcovering when not performing salat is commanded by Allah (fard), or recommended as a preferred practice (mustahabb).

Read more here:

The difference between the obligatory (fard) and necessary (wajib)

The Fiqh of Covering One's Nakedness (Awra): A Detailed Explanation

VW always with some great info... i feel like i am dipping my foot into more advanced Islam??? Thanks

though it's completely indiscernible by what i wrote, i meant beards specifically. the thought was in my head that that's what i was talking about, but it didn't reach my typing

Not how I view it...what I believed his arguement was for her...why he not required to have a beard and she is required to wear hijab. She said I'm not sure what he's trying to say...only what I viewed his arguement could possibly be. Other than that, not sure what he meant.

BTW---the pic of your baby for Ramadan is toooo cute!

yes sorry if i wasnt clear... his argument was why it is necessary for me to wear hijab and not for him wearing a beard....

Pick your battles right now we hardly get to talk i would rathor happy times not arguing times you know?

It was to me...not you LOL Not a big deal...last weeks news

How's your day going?

LOL I am so guilty of that so often when I feel tired.

our 4 month wedding anniversary today

Happy 4 month Anniversary!!!!

Ok, seriously people, this is an absolutely fabulous opportunity that you CANNOT miss if you have the resources.

Zaytuna's Distance Learning Program is presenting Imam Zaid's Islam Marriage and Family class this semester.



I took this class with Imam Zaid in person last May, and it was out and out fabulous. It's a must listen for any muslim couple. I'm just waiting for it to come out on CD/DVD, so that I can give it to people as wedding/anniversary present. Actually, I'm seriously considering taking this class again, just so I can download the video files and keep them on the computer for future reference.

Seriously people, don't miss this!

I'm registered. The course starts this Saturday. If anyone else registers, let me know and we can gather on yahoo messenger after the class. My YM is rahhmaa.



Asalaamu Alaikum

We pray that this reaches you in best of eman and well-being.
SunniPath is excited to announce the opening of a free 3-week course on Surat al-Fatiha by Shaykh Sohail Hanif. Classes start this week and spaces are limited so please do register today.

Thank you,
SunniPath Academy

About the Course:
In You and the Fatiha: The Opening to a New Experience, Shaykh Sohail Hanif will not only explain the verses of the Fatiha, but demonstrate how through this chapter, we can learn the proper manners of supplicating. The first half of the Fatiha demonstrates the importance of having hope and fear of, neediness towards, and reliance on Allah Most High. The second half of the Fatiha relates to our slavehood to Him and the need for asking for the greatest gift, namely guidance. The Fatiha also shows us how to manage interactions with Allah, with the universe, and with our fellow men.

This course will consist of both recorded and live online sessions. Live sessions will be focused on expanding the recorded lessons through drawing inferences, as well as having a chance for you to ask any questions. Material is based on notes compiled by Shaykh Ali Hani, a book on selected Qur'anic chapters by Dr Fadil al-Samurai, and Imam Ghazali's Ihya Uloom al-Deen.

I sent this to my husband and we will consider taking it. I will let you know if we do!!

Perhaps he was not well known to those outside the American Muslim community. Heck, even among american muslims, I'm not sure the immigrant generation and their children knew this man well either.

In any case, our community is poorer today, having lost one of the pioneers of American Islam. Imam WD Mohammad passed away earlier today. Inaa lillahi wa inna ilayhi rai’oon, to God we belong and to Him is our return.

Imam Mohammed is arguably one of the greatest figures in american islam. Following the death of his father, Elijah Mohammed, Imam Mohammed brought the Nation of Islam into the folds of mainstream sunni Islam. The network of mosques affiliated with the Imam are known for their commitment to the community.

I attend one such masjid. It began it's life as a Nation of Islam Temple. Many of the older members were originally in the Nation. Because of the leadership of Imam Mohammed, these masjids are now a place where all are welcome, regardless of the color of their skin. I pray alongside gang bangers, and cops, firefighters and politicians, native born americans and immigrants from all around the world. I'm a white girl from rural wisconsin, and I've never felt so at home anywhere as I do among the people of Imam Mohammed.

Please make dua for him, his family and his community tonight when you break your fast.

For more on Imam WD Mohammed, here are some good readings:

New Africa Radio
Anointed Son
This Far by Faith
The Most Important Muslim You’ve Never Heard of
Profile at Religion & Ethics

This is indeed a great loss. He was a very special man with great vision and wisdom who will live long in the history of the umah and in American history. If you do not know of him, do not hestiate to learn and his accomplishments. To do less leaves a huge gap in our learning of important historical figures in Islam and in America. May he rest in peace and in Allah's good graces.

Aymsgirl.. thank you... i called my husband and said the same to him he laughed.. ok ok so it's not the 35 + yrs of his parents of the 60+ yrs of his grandparents i just thought he should know i cared.


He understood and said thank you thank you...... i miss him... but it seems to be getting easier some days. I see the light at the end of the tunnel now that we're in NVC

Perhaps someone can help answer a question for my mom, since some of you know both the Quran and the Bible well. She is a Christian and is reading a translation of the Quran by Yusuf Ali, I believe. Here is her question:



Thank you for any suggestions.

Salaam Rahma,
Which masjid do you attend? Sounds like a very welcoming place...

I'm going to stay out of the Muslim part, but the Bible also teaches that Hagar came from Abraham's sojurn in Egypt. She is an Egyptian possession he took with him when he left. He also marries her after Sarah's death.

Muslim America's Rebellious Son



The Imam Cares

Give her this site. Its a link to a book by Ibn Kathir a great muslim scholar. The book is called the "Stories Of The Prophets" she will find the story of Abraham and Ishmael. I hope its beneficial insha Allah.
http://www.islambasics.com/view.php?bkID=85

Thank you, and thank you, Julianna. I will pass this along.

What is dhikr?

The blessed Prohet (saws) said: "hatta yaqulu majnun -Remember Allah Ta'ala as much as you want, until people say that you are crazy and foolish"

(Narrated by Ahmad in his Musnad, Ibn Hibban in his Sahih, and al-Hakim who declared it sahih);



Don't be ashamed of remembering Allah (swt) at all times and in all places.

Abu al-Darda' (ra) narrates: The Prophet (saws) once asked his companions: "Shall I tell you about the best of all deeds, the best act of piety in the eyes of your Lord, which will elevate your status in the Hereafter, and carries more virtue than the spending of gold and silver in the service of Allah or taking part in jihad and slaying or being slain in the path of Allah? The dhikr of Allah."

got a couple of strange questions.....

1. showing affection/touching your spouse in public (islamically)
2. magic (evil eye etc....)

i've noticed alot of regional beliefs but not Islamically based....

Did anybody get that awful DVD sent out by Clarion called Obsession?

it was in the newspaper yesterday, and now it's in the trash, unopened.

We never got it. It's quiet ignorant but it is causing our local mosques trouble already. At one of them sombody sprayed pepper spray in the open window and it caused people to become ill. They caught them trying to do it at ours last night and arrested them, thank goodness.

It came in our local newspaper as well and by USPS. I guess these ignorants spent like 30 million for that trash.

Wow, I hadn't heard of this. Terrible.

Tasha, please post any updates you may have on that! I've been digging through the news all morning, and there's almost no information out there.

I don't get it...what are we talking about?

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JI26Ak03.html

yep we got one last week in the mail. i watched some of it but got bored so i turned it off.

husband read the envelope it came in and it said something where he said, oh it must be from the mccain people.

It's a matter of haya, modesty/shyness that is dependant on culture, urf.

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=...80&CATE=121

Showing overt affection in public isn't considered modest.



A lot of this is related to culture, although when we look back to the life of the Prohpet (saws), we do find instances of magic

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=...18&CATE=115

Here is who is responsible. http://www.obsessionwithhate.com/thepundits.php Suprise suprise that Daniel Pipes is on the list.

How is this even legal????? Would neo-Nazi's be legally able to insert their dvd propaganda into the NY Times, et al?

My husband watched the trailor on the DVD the other night. It's something..... well I just pray it stays under control. Most people are telling me they just threw it away. They had a meeting at our Islamic Society with the local churches and mosques and I believe the churches are drawing up a petition against the newspaper for distributing these.

the mayor in portland had requested that the big newspaper here not distribute it, but they did anyways. there's a protest downtown about it, that started about 20 minutes ago. nothing major, just kind of a truth promotion thing.

wow haven't heard about this until now... i m in seattle

Hopefully you wont!

No one attacked Islam this bad except when Osama Bin Loser and his followers existed! Its our jobs to represent and denounce them.