What if YOU were being petitioned from a third-world country and comming to Canada, USA, UK, etc? How would you feel? Expectations?

BTW- I'm bored out of my mind!

I had to ask myself this question over and over again. How would I feel and how does he do it? My husband was a prominent lawyer in Egypt and left that job to start all over here. I think he is so much stronger than I. I can't even say what I would expect. I am just thankful that he did this for us and our family is together.

Bless your .

I really can't imagine this. I try but I just can't. When I am there I see things and I kinda go into a state of shock and tell him we have to get him out of there, but I just can't imagine what it would be like if the shoe were on the other foot.

I dunno but I can tell u what I'd expect if I were being petitioned to go to his country (if it worked that way).. I'd expect to be lonely and cry a lot. Then, I'd expect to stay with his family coz we'd not have our own home and prolly be expected to cook and clean all day, which would only make the lonliness and crying worse.... that's what I'd expect.

amal

Nervous as hell

After what I went through on this last trip ( me getting really sick) and my daughters accident over there... as much as I think things are pretty there... and now expecting a baby... I would not go. I saw things very differently this last trip ( the blinders were off)

Its very fun being a man over there.. they wander around,,, walk out at night... enjoy themselves.. listen to music. If you are a girl that has a brother or are married , you can pretty much expect to be stuck in the house, tearing the feathers out of chickens and sitting around waiting for your husband to show up at home. I also was made to dress in ways I did not want do the fact that he wanted to project a certain image for me so I was sweating to death half the time and extremely unhappy even though I had been to Algeria 3 times before. I can imagine, with heavy hijab, a jilbab, a screaming unhappy and tired pre schooler and a new baby, then being subjected to places with no ac , no sanitation on a regular basis and all kinds of cultural norms... I just cant adjust to.. I just would want to live there if I wasnt married to my husband honestly because if I was allowed to be just a western person it wouldnt be so bad, but I am really expected to tow the whole islamic barbie line and I aint having that again like December.. I really really was pissed at alot I saw... I saw men throwing things at women, slapping them in the head in the streets.. just all kinds of crap.. I like being in America.. Its different in some places.. but I was put through alot and my memories are very unhappy ones

Is it really strict in Algeria???? My husband tried to make me wear certain clothes there but I just wasn't about to wear all that heavy stuff in the heat. He tried, but didn't suceed! I believe in modesty, yes, but if I am hot there is no way I am going to wear all of that! And for staying home....lets just say if he goes out without me I won't be sticking around the house plucking chickens. Wow, things must be a lot different there than in Morocco. Do you think he will try that here?

Its not strict everywhere but I have a conspiracy theory. My husband was a big time cabaret guy.. you know the ones that go out with all the girls and know all the singers.. HE IS FRIENDS WITH CHEB KHALED. So the deal is , he wants to make me look as wrapped up as possible so everyone goes MASHALLAH YOUR WIFE IS SO GOOD. The reality is ... I have managed to stay faithful for over a year and a half, hugging only my pillow and haagen daaz for comfort and I think if the shoe was on the other foot... lets say some girl from over there... and she was dropped into the middle of American culture.. I am sure that after a year and a half alone SOME CHEATING would have gone on. Not me, I have been completely faithful to him.. I am tired of being alone. I have waited longer than I am even supposed to just to let him see his mom on a transit visa...

Yes .. many are just that strict. I think it has alot to do with all the hookers there. They have to go WAYYYYYYYYY out of their way to show that you are a "good girl". Thats why they layer all that stuff on. At least you kind of understand because your husband "tried" to dress you like that. Mine succeeded and trust me, I am not looking forward to going back at all now because of the way I had to dress. I was so so so unhappy. I dont mind a light jilbab and hijab but I was forced to wear an overcoat because men were looking at my ### when I walked and he got pissed .. Oh well

You know wahrania always has to run her freaking mouth

Is it really strict in Algeria???? My husband tried to make me wear certain clothes there but I just wasn't about to wear all that heavy stuff in the heat. He tried, but didn't suceed! I believe in modesty, yes, but if I am hot there is no way I am going to wear all of that! And for staying home....lets just say if he goes out without me I won't be sticking around the house plucking chickens. Wow, things must be a lot different there than in Morocco. Do you think he will try that here?
[/quote]

Ya Morroco is a lot less strict and its pretty laid back, its nice there. Hm...ya I wouldn't eb pluckin chicken in any darn country...maybe once for experience but not for like life .... hecky no. I would feel vulnerable and worse if I had AP because there so much pressure from people saying, "Why aren't you in America yet?" or "When are you going?" nagging questions ugh! I would dig a hole and stay in there for a while just to get away...seriously.

Tammy

Nothing pisses me off more then the male hitting the female as if he is superior. My anger rises just thinking about it. If it came to that for me. I walk and there is no talk. I won't tolerate it for a moment. No matter what situation I am in.

Same here, no question. Great avatar pic BTW.

Wow... I didn't know it was like that in Algeria!

Interesting question... If the shoe were on the other foot, and i was petitioning to live in US or Canada or Morocco (if it worked that way), i know be scared and lonely... i know i'd cry a lot... cuz i'm a wimp and cry a lot anyway.

but i'd do it in a second, without a glance backward. This whole process has been impossibly difficult, and sometimes i feel like i've made some sacrifices that others (family & friends) have passed judgment on... but i'm doing my best... and i think i would do it under any other circumstance... (of course i don't have any children, so i'm sure that would change things entirely.)

but for me, in my current situation....
plucking feathers, cutting up raw intestines, never sitting on a toilet ever again... i'd do it, if i had to... in a heartbeat.

I imagine I would be both excited and apprehensive-- same as if I was going to go live there

Thx!

If I had to go to Lebanon, I wouldn't mind it at all. Other than the hot humid weather, places with no A/C ohh and now the recent fighting Well I guess this is whee my biggest fear would come.
My husband did not try to make me wear anything, he was pleased with my choices and even helped me with shopping for clothes, gifts, our supermarket trips, etc..
He'd sit and watch me put on make up Poor guy.. i do take long to get dressed.
He's also a good cook.. tho we enjoyed cooking together.. i was the potato peeler Just writting this, made me sad.. I miss him so much! 7 months wait for adjudication for a straight I-130??

I just cannot imagine......a lot of things.

I couldnt imagine leaving my family and friends like Mohamed did.Also he had a very good job his own lab. I would move to Egypt with him so fast if he didnt like it here.

The problem was it was so hot when I went the first time with no ac .I told him if we lived there we would have to have ac and there was no way i would kill any chicken! I did cover my hair and wear long sleeves ! Yes it was hot!
I also went in febuary it was freezing then.I told him we have to get a heater.So he did! I was even pregnant then and was so cold.

I understand how he feels now .I felt the same the first time I ever went there so nervous .I told him u will get use to things here very soon.

If I was in the beneficiary position..... I'll probably miss leaving being my family and so forth, but.... I would also look forward to being with my SO, and the "freedom"....

"Freedom" being of significance importance, especially in my situation -- I have a disability that is often looked upon as shameful (in some countries), and sadly, has several ignorant stereotypes (even in the USA) -- but fortunately the USA does have some acts/laws/policies that help protect disabilities whereas in some other countries doesn't exist.... so it would be something I would be looking forward to getting a "taste of"

Plucking chickens won't be something I would be thrilled to be doing, but then again... it's cultural and if I was born and raised in that culture, I'd be used to it and "think nothing to it"

__________________

My SO actually would have liked if I came to live with him in Dubai instead. I told him "no" at this time because of the "freedom"/jobs I already have here (which was not easy to come by). Maybe IF he ever ends up not liking it here, and finds a very good job (able to support us and the family) elsewhere, I'll move with him in a heartbeat.

And of course, A/C would be a MUST! I'm spoiled in that way.

I would move to Egypt with my husband. I of course like the other sisters, would be nervous and a little sad to leave my family.

I think It would be an easier transition for me because I am older than my husband and I have experienced life a little more than he.

I am not Muslim but I am TOTALLY respectful of my husband wishes. He knew I didn't cover when we met. He likes my hair. I do wear long sleeves but if it's hot, IT'S HOT and I am not down with covering completely up.

I am a "Big" Girl and I would pass the heck out! LMAO

I give so much credit to my husband for going through this process, he is a very strong brother.

I think that the sisters who are struggling with the cultural differences, should definitely look into themselves and be TRUE to YOU.

I would go to Nepal in a heartbeat - I love Govi's country and culture. However the biggest fear for me(besides the political situation, which appears to be stabilizing, and the traffic, and the scary street dogs ) is the health care system, which is awful, very similar to the conditions described in the 'health care in MENA' thread. No A/C for me isn't a biggie - I am definitely a hot weather girl and can deal with ceiling fans instead of A/C - it is actually something I look forward to, being able to wear nice summery cottons and not freezing whenever I go inside because the place(like where I work) is like a freezer, not to mention hearing the birds and sounds of nature through the open windows instead of the constant roar of the A/C. Nepal generally doesn't get that hot anyway, not like India. Heat is another story - I need it in the winter up to at least 80 degrees - fortunately my building has steam heat and it gets that hot without my needing to do anything.

I can't imagine leaving my family without knowing when I would be coming back - that would be heartbreaking. Govi's parents have had health problems recently and he has ended up helping out - he has 3 sisters so I guess they will be able to help, but I know it will be very hard for them to be without him.

Thank God Govi's family is vegetarian - peeling potatoes and chopping veggies beats plucking chickens for sure...

My husband would love it if I said I would move to Morocco. Right now, with a new grandson and a mother who needs my help, I can't. But, we have talked much about it and I have told him maybe someday we will. I have weighed the pros and cons so much. Here are the pros: When I go to visit, I have it easier than some people. His family has a "real" toilet in there home - they don't use it much, but you know I did!! A little portable AC in the bedroom! I was never told how to dress. I am a modest person anyway, and saw many woman in Morocco who dressed "less" than I did. But the biggest pro for me is just the way of life there - so simple and I love that. They don't need all "stuff" we need...families seem to be much closer....less money worries (because you don't have so much). Just much more laid back than our way of life here in the USA. Cons are of course leaving my family - that would be hard...and never knowing when you will have enough money to come back home to visit. Definitely need a heater like some of you said. I was there the last time in December and walked around in the house for 3 weeks with leggings under my pants, 3 shirt on and a hat and gloves. OMG it was soooooooo cold. The animals would bother me too...I saw so much abuse of those poor horses - it made me sick. And all the dogs and cats running around with no homes made me so sad. Maybe I could start a "Human Society" there.??? If i had a cold, I could deal with it...but something more serious, i would freak out with the health care system. I went to the dentist with my husband one day and couldn't believe the equipment they use - I would have to be in some serious pain for that stuff to touch my mouth. Anyway, bottom line for me is this....I think it would be a much easier adjustment for me to go there, then it will be for this kind, good-hearted, god-loving muslim man to come here. I can't even imagine. OH...and the plucking of the chickens??? NO WAY!!!!

Off topic...but i just noticed I have two blue boxes today...Should i really be this excited about that??

I did live in Jordan for almost a year, and although it was easy adating to everything...I could never do it for much longer than that, and reason being, is my family...i do think tho that in the next few years, we will invest in some land, and build a house to vacation to a month or two each year...but that will be the extent of it

I am cool living anywhere, my husband is super cool, he knows I half listen to most things. Husband might suggest, but he would never make it sound like a demand, but really I always do what I want. I don't like being forced into things, I get strange about that. My husband isn't the typical MENA man, he always pushes me to be more independent, wtf is all that about. My whole family is like that, always pushing me, ok I am cool now.

I've lived all over the world and loved each and every place. Have been away for long periods of time, so I know adapatability for me is easy. I dress according to where I am, where i'm going and who I will meet. There is no "set" rule...just be gracious where you are.

Now the chicken thing....ain't NO WAY on this earth would I pluck a chicken...
I don't even eat the thing so they would have to find another "chicken plucker"!!

I like the above poster's comment wherever you go be gracious.

Algeria isn't strict as it's comming off as. It's french colonized we salaam unlike most muslim countries with the opposite sex who is familiar vs Saudi where you can't even put your arm around your wife or PDA in public without getting arrested. My babe puts his arm around me everywhere and kisses my forehead in a respectful manner. I wear American clothes. Just as any other muslim country you have your bad people and good people. I personally have never seen a man hit a woman there all my life but that's disgusting behavior. Men's respect is partly carried by his wife since you don't have to do much there to gain respect (i.E. dont need a lot of money to be respected) Algeria is a humble country and humble people.

I can't really answer my original question because i love algeria to death. Studying in France would be cool and living in Algeria would be the best but I make so much easy money in USA

I would be in prision, I could see that happening all ready, I hate being hot, and seeing a man throw things at a women or slapping them in the head, yea, not cool. I don't want to pluck some kind of chicken, while the men are out enjoying themselves, and the worst, NO AC, MUST HAVE AC.

I don't know what Algeria you are living in but lots of women DO NOT WEAR WESTERN CLOTHES. Kissing on the forehead in public ( are you sure you were in the same Algeria I was?) I never saw one man on 4 different trips kiss a woman in public. The majority of the women I saw in Oran with normal clothes after dark were "working girls" if you know what I mean. If women were in western clothes they were conservatively dressed and most that I saw that were "married" WORE HIJAB. How can you as an non muslim Algerian even have a remote concept of what daily life is like for an Algerian MUSLIM woman? First, even practicing christianity in Algeria is next to impossible with very few churches open and running and churches being shut down daily and bible importing outlawed. I have absolutely no idea where exactly in Algeria you were but it must have been in KABILYE( berber area) because I cannot for the life of me imagine him smooching you walking down the street. There are western dressed women but they are certainly not running around after dark, rarely walking alone and most married MUSLIM woman wear hijab. There are some that dont but even their movement is restricted after dark and certainly it is NOT Algerian custom to kiss in public.

ayiyiiiii wahrania....you are american, born in america right? Why don't you stick to being an expert for your country and your culture? Are you here to prove I am a liar or all that didn't really happen? What is that for? My cousin is next to me she's algerian with a fiance from algeria and shocked that American people actually travel to arabi countries and think they know everything from A-Z about my personal life and others. Why would you embaress yourself like this? Post all you want about any other country how it's runned but not Algeria. Muslim/Christian it's the same thing, just because I am christian it doesn't mean I'm loose and run around naked and drink beer. We are married we have that respect he can kiss my forehead I'm for him only he didn't kiss my lips in my respect. I wore western clothes because it's nothing. No legs no breast no arms were showing. Here in USA I wear long boots on jeans long sleeve shirts I cover myself up it's my self respect. Alot of the women in my family who moved to France they don't wear hijab and they are muslim, from Sahara also. Algiers not many girls cover up you even see girls driving and walking without hijab. Western clothing it's not prohibited. They sell it EVERYWHERE and there's so many lingerie shops everywhere!! I got married in Western clothing! The judge and imam didn't care they touched my head for blessing bc when I talk i am so respectful like older men are my father. If your hubby didn't kiss you or show affection you can't get assume it's haraam. My husband let me dress as I like bec he knows I don't disrespect my image.




This thread was asking all the women/men on the forum what would they feel like if they were the ones being petitioned and them being the beneficiary.

What was the question?

[quote name='sarahaziz' date='May 12 2008, 08:41 PM' post='1834114']
ayiyiiiii wahrania....you are american, born in america right? Why don't you stick to being an expert for your country and your culture? Are you here to prove I am a liar or all that didn't really happen? What is that for? My cousin is next to me she's algerian with a fiance from algeria and shocked that American people actually travel to arabi countries and think they know everything from A-Z about my personal life and others. Why would you embaress yourself like this? Post all you want about any other country how it's runned but not Algeria. Muslim/Christian it's the same thing, just because I am christian it doesn't mean I'm loose and run around naked and drink beer. We are married we have that respect he can kiss my forehead I'm for him only he didn't kiss my lips in my respect. I wore western clothes because it's nothing. No legs no breast no arms were showing. Here in USA I wear long boots on jeans long sleeve shirts I cover myself up it's my self respect. Alot of the women in my family who moved to France they don't wear hijab and they are muslim, from Sahara also. Algiers not many girls cover up you even see girls driving and walking without hijab. Western clothing it's not prohibited. They sell it EVERYWHERE and there's so many lingerie shops everywhere!! I got married in Western clothing! The judge and imam didn't care they touched my head for blessing bc when I talk i am so respectful like older men are my father. If your hubby didn't kiss you or show affection you can't get assume it's haraam. My husband let me dress as I like bec he knows I don't disrespect my image.




This thread was asking all the women/men on the forum what would they feel like if they were the ones being petitioned and them being the beneficiary.


[/quote)

first

You never lived in an extremely religious area NOR did you live through the black years in Algiers where the religious police would walk up to people sitting on the beach with their arms around them and slit the woman's throats.

Second your family are SMAGRIA and I know you know what that word means... It means Algerians raised in the west especially France and it is NOT the nicest term to describe a woman. The reality is that the average middle class girl doesnt walk around in Algeria with western clothes.. maybe in Algiers or bigger cities... but not in Medea or outlying cities or middle class areas.. You are delusional if you think that its completely normal to be a converted christian algerian in algeria or that you think that open affection is the norm.. not not not not... Kabilya Bejaja where you are from but a big hell no in the rest of rural and semi rural algeria

And dont represent conversion for an Algerian as the norm. I have never ever ever met an Algerian man that would accept an Algerian woman who was christian especially if it meant his child would not be raised muslim.. unless of course he doesnt plan on having kids with her.. then the marriage would make sense.. Tell me that an Algerian man will accept his wife to raise his children to be raised as christian and I have some waterfront property in Ghairdaia to sell you

Ok u 2. I insist you stop this. It has been going on for months.

The first thing is that while she is Algerian she has implied that 'American people"need to stick to their own culture. Not realising that she herself ISNT STICKING TO ALGERIAN CULTURAL.LY The foundation of the Algerian republic was built on the shaheeds or Islamic martyrs for the Algerian state against the French occupiers. When Algeria won the Algerian war against the French, the tenets of the Algerian nation were built on the Islamic Algerian identity. She is a converted christian, while fine is NOT the cultural norm in most of Algeria. In fact , prostelitysing has ended up in gettting people thrown in jail as late as this year. She is saying that Algeria is NOT STRICT which is simply depending on WHERE you are in Algeria. She has mentioned before she shops in Bejaja which means she is from close to if not in the Kabilye region but I cannot be sure but I do know one thing. Algerians from France are called Smagri or Smagria which is a way of describing immigrant and in many ways not any closer to Algerian culture than we are.. in many ways MORE LIBERAL AND LOOSE. There is a heavy and unfortunate tradition of using smagri to simply get papers because they literally are Algerian in name and not in any other way. My problem with Sarah is that without provaction constantly tells me that things I witnessed in Western and rural and central Algeria did not happen and that the Algeria she experienced is the norm. To the contrary, wearing hijab is not always the norm but very common with NON KABILYE and NON ALGIERS people, especially during and after the islamic insurgency from 1988 to 2002 where literally many began to cover to shield themselves from reprisals from the GIA and GSPC who demanded strict allegiance to Islam. She lives in a part of Algeria where literally if she drives up to Tizi Ouzou, there are people there that do not even speak arabic and that bars are open during Ramadan. As a kabilye or living close to this area, yes there are some more liberal areas but they hardly represent the norm. In Oran , yes there are western dressing women but most of the women I saw in jeans were SMAGRI, or Algerians living in France who go home to visit. They hardly represent popular Algerian culture and they also have a really hard time getting married to Algerians for much more than papers. If you think that westerners get floated for papers... its very common for "smagri" to be used for papers. Think of the average muslim that you know. Ask yourself if they would be thrilled as an Algerian man to let their child be raised christian. Then ask yourself if you took lets say a Moroccan or Egyptian arabic woman, moved her to France and then she goes back on vacation. She may be accepted as part of them but then as she insists her child be raised christian because she has converted,,,,imagine where the head of the Algerian man is going. No where fast. Its my belief that as much as he may love her,,, which I think she is very pretty.... he is planning on his children being muslim whether he says that or not.. and they are no where near planning for children yet. When they do, I doubt they will be named JEWISH names (Algeria expelled every jewish person in the last 4o years leaving no working synagogues and has absolutely NO diplomatic ties with Israel) or he be real thrilled about his children being raised as christian.(she has started posts looking for good jewish names) Not gonna happen. My only beef with Sarah is that for some reason she thinks her Algerian identity is simply genetic. The Algerian identity is closely allied with Islam. The flag has islamic tenets. She also did not live there during the islamic insurgency which is only in the last 4 years calming down( not really think Al Qaeda blowing up the United Nations building on December 11 2008.) Her experiences are no where near the norm for ordinary non Algiers or kabilye living Algerian women who despite inroads are STILL expected to do all the cooking, tow a religious line of raising their children muslim.. not go out after dark, and ESPECIALLY after marriage tow a different load than being allowed to run around. I get irritated because she implies that as an American I could not know what Algeria or Algerians are like when she herself is not acting like the wife of Algerian muslim... posting on here that she wants to give her baby a Jewish name which in itself will not lend the child to having any respect or cohesion with fellow Algerians as it gets older or that somehow that all the things she went through are the norm. Westerners often follow islam MORE than some of the people from the countries who are often CULTURALLY religious NOT CONVICTED by spirit and thats where the difference lies. As much as its painful to say, being Algerian by birth with no respect or adherance to the religion of the nation with no conviction to raise an Algerian child muslim makes it really no different for him than marrying someone French or Swiss etc. I dont think she gets that.... But then again.. having a baby there means a promise at birth , the aquiqah, the slaughter of sheep, 2 for a boy and 1 for a girl.. and a convenant with Allah to raise this child as a muslim. I cant see how she will get around that... but then again if kids are not even in the picture anyway, I can see how it can be avoided.

can't we just schedule a wrestling match in chocolate or jello to solve this?

Wahrania seriously you need to chill out about this. We all get that you know a lot about algerian culture but you push it too far every time. hell I've lived in america all my life but I still dont know that I am an 'expert' on american culture, there are so many aspects and individuals that comprise the whole. when you start ranting like this you just undermine any of your own credibility and intelligence.
think about it like this:
lets say I had an algerian come visit me for a month in my central california town and we spent the month hanging out, maybe travelling around the state to LA, SF, Napa, etc. lets say another algerian went to stay with my cousins in southern arkansas for a month in their town of 1500 people and they spent a month huntin' and fishin' and callin' the hogs. I am 100% certain they would have VASTLY different experiences here, and when they compared anecdotes it would pretty much be like they had been on different planets, not the same country ....

Can you not accept that maybe there are others out there who have different knowledge/experience of algeria than you do??

I do Sara.. the problem that I have with Sara...if you look at the original posting is that she said Algeria was not as strict as I said. Its not as strict for certain levels of society and certain areas and I am NOT certainly an expert in cultural but I do have eyes.
When a girl is NOT a virgin or has slept with someone its almost impossible to get married unless she reinvents herself and moves completely away from where she lives.
Things that Algerians will accept in Americans and French like having multiple lovers and boyfriends etc will certainly NOT be tolerated in an arab girl. There is a word for girls that sleep with men before marriage in Algeria and dress like girls do when they go out over here.. They are called merioulas( brazen women) and work at cabarets at night sleeping with men for money in large cities like Oran and Algiers.

Whats acceptable to date is not necessarily acceptable to marry. Then the kids issue comes into it. To deny the fact that a child being raised muslim is not important is just to delude yourself. Sarah while a converted christians IS NOT THE NORM nor is the idea of naming her child a jewish name as she has stated. The only part of Algeira that I could conceivabley see dressing anyway you want and doing anything y ou want is Kabilya Algeria where in fact they dont speak arabic even nor do they essentially get along with the rest of Algeria. Terrorists dont mess with the kabilyes but they certainly hang out up there due to the fact that the Algerian government is alot less likely to do much about them when the native peoples up there dont agree with even being part of Algeria much less speaking their language.

She has said several times that as an American I can only comment on my culture not hers. The reality is she knows less about Algerian culture and history than many Americans I know, never having lived there,not being raised muslim and not understanding the implications of raising a child with Algerian culture and tradition which includes ISLAM a muslim name, an Algerian identity and YES in many parts of Algeria including the SAHARA as she mentioned , hijab. In the Sahara they practice even a more strict version of Islam called Ibadi Islam and they cover from head to toe in white with one eye poking out ( Ghairdaia, Bounoura,etc) She is apparently a part of the village that she lives in but has not been exposed to some of the stricter elements of Islam around Algeria complete with Chlef, Medea and many parts of central and western Algeria. Oran gives the appearance of being open but if you really look after 6 pm you will not see a single woman out after dark unless she is with a male companion or family. If you see women dressed in western clothing, travelling alone or walking after dark you can pretty much assume they are prostitiutes.. Which is rampant in Algeria right now. The cultures are NOT the same. Algeria for the most part while it does have some pockets of modernity such as Algiers, Kabilya and Constantine is under the threat of Islamiists on a daily basis and its just delusiuonal to even compare lets say MOROCCO with Algeria. Algeria has much more natural resources such as mining and gas than Morocco does.. .Morocco thrives on tourism , even marketing Israel and maintaining relations with all of Europe easily. The situation in Algeria is much more difficult to explain. For example, many Algerians who live in France are known as HARKIS or traitors to Algeria, having left Algeria after having helped the French kill Algerian people during the Algerian revolution. Many Algerians in France do not share the same culture as Algerians in Algeria because they are more "french " than Algerians due to living there. I can see with my eyes a woman getting smacked over the head by her boyfriend, the horrible life of women who made no other bad choice other than sleeping with someone before marriage be relagated to a life of prostititution at the age of 18 and no way out and to tell me that I cannot see stark reality is just arrogant. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to see that Algerian women are judged at a much harsher yardstick than western women are . The stuff that our husbands accept in us would not way in hell be accepted in an Algerian girl. Period

Also Sara535, it would be impossible to convey credibility or intelligence through a visa forum. Living in a major city such as Algiers in a western environment would not prepare you for lets say a CHLEF or MEDEA...places even the army doesnt want to venture into. There are reasons that the American Embassy even has restrictions for its own staff not to enter certain parts of algiers. I had a different experience in Algeria due to the fact that everyone around me lost members of their family to terror from brothers disappearing and I simply was in many more rural areas than the average person traveling there.. I am not here to be credible. I just call it like I see it.
Being American doesnt make me less able to call a spade a spade and I resent the implication by Sara that it makes me less able to interpret my experiences..
When you meet a girl thrown out of a window by her brother for sleeping with a shop keeper and she is paralysed from the waist down, you kind of start realising that perhaps standards of behavior are a little stricter.. Thats the ways things go

this one's better than that other thread. more stuff to read.

just silly if ya ask me.....

see, I have a different view of Jordan (from only seeing a village) than the view of say...JP or Julianna....I saw a strict Muslim side of jordan and others have seen the liberal side of Amman....Doesn't mean we both dont know and love Jordan.

Same as America...if someone had only seen ..say....Idaho...and someone else.... just Cali....they would have a different opinion.

I say....sarahaziz and wahrania....AGREE TO DISAGREE. (and move on from this cuz really, I/we dont give a flying rats azz)

Jackie

will the real algerian please stand up, please stand up.......

and then, there's that.

'ya'll act like you never seen an Algerian before...jaws all on the floor.....'

Jackie
(bet ya didn't know I was a rapper)

Down here that would be:

"Ya'll be actin' like ya'll neva' seed no Algerian b'fur"

Iran is pretty strict and I am sure there are honor punishments or killings or whatever - but look at WOMs thread of the women in iran. Maybe some parts are different than others, in algeria as well.

Also maybe sara aziz's definition of dress as she pleases is conservative modern clothing. So she thinks she is dressing as she pleases but really it fits within the norms. I find it hard to believe that they go around beating you in algeria if you dont wear a jellabia

Lastly they are coming to live in america. So whether or not her husband is OK with or supposed to be OK with xtian girls and jewish names for children, maybe they just figure they are living in the US - so what?

Oh and edited to say, I think I would rather visit sara aziz's version of algeria!

lolllllllllll