Good night:

Ive been reading all the topics you discuss here about jobs and limitations for latings to get one, and I would like to ask something: Is there in USA jobs opportunities for attorneys? Im attorney here in my country (Peru) and Ive studied six years for getting my title and then my CAL register (thats like BAR Association).


I have talked about these with some friends of mine and of course with my love, the most of them have explained to me that I need to approve the BAR examination and then I will be able to work as lawyer there, but I would like to know if somebody here has another suggestions maybe for jobs? I know and I agree with my love that at the beggining is going to be complicated to get an attorney job in USA, and then I could have chances for working as teacher or maybe as translator. But I would like to know what do you think about other kind of jobs, suggestions in general.

On the other hand, I have readen here also that you write about "ELS", I think thats like english classes there? I dont know exactly the meaning of. Do you think is necessary to take english classes when I arrive to USA? Its necessary for working there maybe to get an examination like TOEFL or IELTS? Maybe that examinations could help then for getting a better job?

I would aprreciate so much your opinions... Thanks

Angela (one day closer...)

You only need to take the TOEFL if you are NOT a resident...so don't worry about that because you will become one. In the meantime, ESL (English as a Second Language) classes probably will help you.
You will have to pass the BAR in the U.S. to work as an attorney here, so while you're waiting for your residency, maybe you can spend time studying English and for the BAR.
You may look into paralegal jobs also.

Good luck!

You could probably get in as a paralegal/legal assistant, or maybe a legal secretary (paralegal is more law-related, legal secretary is more filing papers, etc). There is no standard requiremetns for paralegals, so a law firm may see your previous experience as a lawyer in Peru as a benefit to the firm. This would probably be especially true for firms that serve the Hispanic/Latino community.

Your friends are right about becomia lawyer here ... you'd have to retake the bar, and since the bar is SO intense and covers statutes, case law, common law in that state ... it would probably require at least partially redoing law school here. (My professor, when asked about being a licensed lawyer in 2 states, said, "You can take the bar in other states...but most people don't, because once you sit for the bar YOU NEVER. EVER. WANT TO DO IT AGAIN!")

It's not necessary to take ESL classes ... it's up to you. My husband took a few, but learned more through friends and social interactions that at this point, he's considered going back to improve his English (even though it's FINE!) but all the ESL classes are below his English level.

I am not sure taking any English exam will increase your opportunities for a job; either you speak English well enough for your employer or you do not, sabes? If you are uncomfortable with your English, there are many churches or other programs where you can take ESL classes for a low cost or for no cost. But social interactions and speaking on a daily basis with your spouse or friends or family is going to be what gets you there the most completely, IMO. I took 8 years of Spanish, but it was not until I spoke it every day (and even just spending 10 days in Peru where people did not speak English most of the time) that I felt that my Spanish was decent enough to be understood and to speak it without getting too nervous.

Hola Angela!

I'm on the same boat.. I'm a lawyer in Guatemala, and ever since we made the decision that I was going to be the one moving to my fiance's country, I knew my profession would have to suffer, because being a lawyer in one country does not makes you a lawyer automatically in another country, unlike engineers or other professions, we chose a profession that its only good in our own country! If I would have known I would end up marrying a foreign man, I would have became an engineer instead! LOL

I agree with athena ny, it's not just taking the Bar exam, is practically going back to law school! Let's not forget that laws are territorial, and our latin countries haver their legal system based on latin tradition (Old Rome's Legal system) and the U.S. legal system is based on the Common Law. I think it would be a lot easier if we were moving to a country with a similar legal system, lets say if I were to move to Mexico! But that's not the case, the laws in the U.S., their instittutions, their government system, etc, etc, it's so different, that we practically need to go back to law school, to be lawyers in the U.S.

I'm not sure how this works in Peru, but in Guatemala when you graduate as a lawyer you also become a Notary, and the guatemalan laws allow notaries to authorize contracts and other legal documents celebrated in a different country that are going to take effect in Guatemala. That could be an option if I were to live in a State where there are many guatemalans! but where my fiance lives I don't think I've ever seen another latin person, ever!

I'm still pretty unsure of what I'm going to do for work when I get to the States. I thought of what athena ny said, going back to school to become a paralegal or legal assistant.. but I'm still not sure if I want to do that. My fiance supports me 100% and says if my decision is to go to law school here, he'd support me all the way through it, but I dont think I want to start from zero at this age (30).

Another option I've been thinking of and that my ex boss had mention to me, is being a consultant for an office or institution that conducts projects that are executed in Latin America. Guatemala and the rest of Central America have celebrated a Free Trade Agreement with the U.S. and in the last couple of years there have been many projects that are based in the U.S. but are taking place in Guatemala.

Contact the State Bar Association in the state you will be moving to and find out what the requirements are for licensing.

A possible option for the lawyer types; if you live in an area that is involved in international trade perhaps one could find work at an import/export firm working in the area of customs/aduanas.

Hi to all the girls that replied my post...

Thanks very much to all of you, I have now more ideas and help about what I could do in Oregon when I finally move there for living with my baby. I know it wont be easy at the beggining but Im sure that with patience and calm I would find something related with my career, maybe as Athena NY says, a paralegal job

Then, Teresa, I see that we re exactly in the same boat. Well, here in Peru not all lawyers are notaries, thats an specialization that only some of them choose. Im not one of them. I work as counselor on a law firm here in Lima, Peru. And yes, you re absolutely right when you say that the legal systems are totally different, I know that also, for that reason I had the worry about what I would do in USA if I cant practice Law? But as you said in the last paragraph of your comment, its possible that even if we dont get the BAR examination (cause to get BAR means to study again in USA my career and at my 31 years I dont think I would like to study again it, I only expect to study my master) we can work as counselors or consultants on some programs or companies, related with latinamerican countries, specially Guatemala or Peru, cause both countries have signed a free trade agreement and its possible that job opportunities appear there for us

Thanks for the suggestions Franklie and Rebeccajo, Im sure I will check all my posibilities when Ï arrive to USA.

By the way, Teresa your english level is amazing! I have to practice it a bit more, and as Athena says, I need to feel more comfortable with it, but its true that on daily conversations with americans when I live there, I will be more used to that language. Thanks God my baby cah understand me, thats the best for me. Then I promise I will improve my level cause its important also for developing my career in a better way.

Kisses to all of you...

Angela

Im in the same boat as you are, teresa and angela. I used to be a corporate lawyer in the Philippines, now i'm temporarily a homemaker here in VA. i read over the VA Bar Association and found out that to take the Bar i would have to be certified by an ABA accredited school, hence, i'm thinking of taking a LLM course here in VA, with IP specialization, just so i can have that much needed certification. Since education is a bit expensive here in the states, i'm planning to work as an IP para-legal to help finance my education, that way i won't get to burden our joint finances as much and get to learn the US legal system in the process. I've read some firms/organizations likewise have education benefits for their employees, which makes it more of an attractive option for me. I know it wouldn't be the same as working back home, being used to giving out orders instead of taking one, but one has got to do what has to be done under the circumstances.

Goodluck to all of us in finding a job closely related to what we have been used to back home.

Hi Mikeandlani:

Thanks for the information you re sharing with us about the proceedings we need to accomplish for working as lawyers in USA. Your option about working as paralegal asistant and then cover the master expenses is very good option, I will think about it, Im sure of that.

As Teresa said on his mail "If I would have known I would end up marrying a foreign man, I would have became an engineer instead! LOL" and thats trueªªª I think for lawyers is more complicated than for other careers to adapt to american work system, but Im possitive, everything will be finally ok!

Kisses,

Angela

Hi Angela,

i hope you dont mind me asking, which state will you be settling in? there are several states that allow foreign attorneys to take the bar even without the ABA school certification, and a couple of them are CA and NV. i know this for a fact, because a friend of mine from Manila took the bar in NV and passed it after one take, all she did was present evidence to the NV Bar Association that she was a lawyer in Manila, took the review classes and sit for the Bar exams. Same goes true with CA as i had one classmate in law school who passed their Bar even if he wasn't a permanent resident and had no US LLM degree.

...Teresa is right, why didn't we have foresight and just studied for computer related courses, it would be sooo much easier.... lol

Lani

Hi Lani:

Its perfect if you ask me which state I will be settling in!!! Thanks for asking me that, cause after your question I checked the oregon bar association (I will live in Salem, Oregon) and I think -considering the contents of their rules-, that its true, I would need to have an ABA certification as requirement for aplying to the Oregon BAR examination. Well, maybe my english is not so good as yours, so I would need a better explanation for that so for that reason I ask you a favor: could you read the paragraph I will include below and then tell me if Im right and I really need the ABA certification? I would appreciate it so much

Kisses,

Angela

(3) The applicant is admitted to practice before the highest tribunal of a foreign country where the common law of England exists as the basis of its jurisprudence. In such case, the applicant shall have the burden of proving: (a) that the requirements for admission to practice are substantially equivalent to those of this state; and ( that the applicant is a graduate of a law school equivalent to a law school approved by the American Bar Association. The Board of Bar Examiners, after reviewing the recommendation of an equivalency panel composed of representatives of Oregon ABA-approved law schools, shall determine whether the law school is equivalent to an ABA-approved law school for the purposes of this rule. The academic dean of each participating law school shall designate a member of its faculty to sit on the equivalency panel. An evaluation fee may be set by the Board of Bar Examiners and charged to each applicant seeking an equivalency determination. The fee shall accompany the applicant’s request for admission.

Hello Panera. . . it is the same here in Florida. Must go back to school before taking the bar. I miss working but I don't think I am ready to go back to school so I will probably opt going into being a paralegal or a legal assistant. I am also a nurse but my husband doesn't want me working on shifts. Anyhow, goodluck to us. It was indeed hard to leave a very lucrative profession in the Philippines but I have no regrets. My husband and I are planning to retire there in the future and I can always go back to private practice.

Godbless.

Myla

Would it be worthwhile to pass the bar in one of the states that have less stringent requirements (CA,NV) and then apply to the bar in your home state?

Would it be less expensive and less time consuming than trying to complete a university program?

Well I really dont know if its possible to pass the bar in one of the states with less stringent requirements and then apply in my home state, but I think maybe not. Perhaps its possible between two states with same requirements. By the way, if somebody here could give us more information about it, would be really nice

Angela

hi Angela, here's what i understand from the above provision, if Peru uses the common law of England as its basis for jurisprudence then you may submit a written request to take the Oregon Bar enclosing proof that Peru's requirements for bar admission is equivalent to that of Oregon's and the law school from which you graduated has the same standards as that of an ABA approved law school, (i guess this will require letters of recommendations from your law professors, Peruvian Supreme Court, etc), once their Board finds in your favor, you may be allowed to take the Bar exams even without the ABA approved law school certification. However, in the event that Peru's laws are totally different from that of England's common law, i'm afraid you would need to get a JD in an ABA approved law school, to sit for the Oregon Bar exams. i hope i was able to help you out.

In case anyone has a different interpretation than the above, feel free to correct me...

Lani

hmmm...not really. in VA for instance to be admitted to the Bar by mere motion, you would have to practice at least 5 years from the state of which you are a member of the Bar.

Hi Myla,
your requirements in FL are much more stringent than that of VA, at least here, i only need to take 26 units LLM course and get a certification from the school dean that i am qualified to take the Bar, you under FL Bar would have to go back to school and get a JD degree. whew! we sure need all the luck we can get in finding the job we have been used to....then again, maybe its not too late to think of a career change...lol!

Hi Lani:

Thanks very much for your post! yes I had more or less the same interpretation of the provision. I must be sincerous that right now I havent taken any decission about practicing or not my career in USA, only if I would be able to study a master there, then I would intend to practice again, so I hope with all my hear that I can study the master finally. I think I will be patient and work on something that I like -even if its not law-, until I get a job related with my career

And, as I read in another post, well we always have time for studying a new career Being possitive is the best!

Kisses...

Angela

Sorry for not being able to reply sooner! I've going through so much this last week at work and getting everything ready for my upcoming interview. I was about to go crazy.

I need to catch up with this thread

Thank you for the comment about my english, I think yours is perfect Angela! But I see where you are coming from, I feel unsure about mine sometimes, and when I read what I wrote before I can always find mistakes! Ughh! We'll get better once we're in the States

I too, want to take some english classes when I get there, I really need to review all the gramatical rules, as I don't think I remember any! LOL (it's been a long time since I took english classes). I can write and I'm fluent when speaking, but still I'd feel unsure about writting an essay or documents for professional matters.


Now I'm going to read and reply the other posts, because I had some questions about de C.A. Bar and the LLMM.

Hey Lani!

What you are planning to do, It sounds like a great option! I've reading something about the BAR in C.A. but I wanted to ask you, I think you may know how this works, I understood that if you pass the BAR exam in C.A. you are certified as an U.S. lawyer in Foreign Jurisdiction, whicn I'd think it does not really make you a U.S. Lawyer, or do you think one would be able to practice being a lawyer in Foreing Jurisdiction? I don't know.. I'm confused about that.

How long does LLMM takes? I read that it was only 2 years, if it's only 2 years, it would be great, that is usually what a Master's Degree would take in my country.


I know exactly what you are saying on the last part of your post! I've been trying to prepare myself mentally and emotionally, to start from zero again! That is going to be the hardest part!

I'm not sure if that is possible either. I think it would be extremely hard to pass the BAR exam, even in C.A. or N.V. when we have absolutely no idea how the common law system works, even when they do not require you go back to school and would allow you to take the exam, I think it would be necessary to take some classes or study on your own.

I know that if, for example, I were to go to Mexico or Peru to try to pass your BAR exam, I would fail and our countries are pretty similar, they all have their legal system based on the latin tradition (civil law).

I don't think there is one latin country that has their legal system based in common law, as far as I know all latin countries have what is called a civil law system, which is mostly based on written law as opposed to the common law system that is based mainly in jurisprudence.

Is JD equal to a bachelors degree? I'm so confused about this university titles that are so different here... do you guys know their equivalent in other countries?

Lani, do you know if it is possible to get a LLMM even when you have not received a JD in the States?

Angela, I'm just like you still unsure of what I want to do, I've been even contemplating the possibility of doing something completely different, maybe I'll become a Chef LOL

My fiance is in the Military so I think I can use some of his educational benefits once we get married. I still need to do some research about that. But then again, I start thinking if I want to go back to law school now... we want to have babies in 2 or 3 years, and I don't think it would be very easy if I'm studying.

I'm so glad we all got in touch, I'm learning so much from you guys and feeling a lot better knowing that I'm not alone trying to figure out what to do... I was talking to a friend a jokingly saying, that I wont be homesick when I leave, but instead I'll be jobsick! I've been working ever since my last year of Law school and it is going to be hard to stay at home at the begining.

Teresa!

I just checked in your sign that its only less than a week for your embassy interview!!!! Wowowow!! You should be so excited about it, right? I cross fingers and wish from the bottom of my heart that everything is ok and you get finally Visa K1, travel to USA and get married with Erick. In my case, I have to wait for some months cause we only filed the documents on march 24 on CSC (grrr, I know they take too much time for solving k1 proceedings ). But we re possitive and we know that even if we have to wait for some time else, we will be finally together foreve

Yes, I have not decided yet what I will finally do in USA. I know from the bottom of my heart that it will be hard to get a job as attorney in USA, but as I told you also its always possible that maybe we re lucky and can work as counselors in private companies or international programs that requires our input: "latin attorneys from South or Central America that know exactly the latin reality and can deal with english and spanish" So Im sure we will have opportunities. The idea is only knocking the right doors But eventually if thats so so hard, we always will have the possibility to discover inside of us another things that we would like to do there. Maybe you could be a Chef or I could be a designer! We need to be always possitive, thats the best idea now and then when we re there, we will see what happens, finally if we dont get anything we always can communicate by this way and work together

Your fiancee is militar? What a coincidence! Mine was militar too, well he is now retired but its still working as civil on militar agency Where would you settle down in USA? I will be in Salem, Oregon.

Ah and about JD and LLM I think that the first is equivalent to the "lawyer" degree that latin universities give to you when you finish your career. Then LLM is the same than master degree, for that reason it only takes one or the most, two years. It will be one year if you study it full time, and will be two years if you study it part time.

Well girl, again good luck in your interview and I confirm what you said: its very nice to meet people here that is in our same situation, and we can help each other to solve doubst or questions. Finally, this is a good way for who know, maybe starting new friendships

Kisses to all of you...

Angela - One day closer

hi teresa,

if you pass the Bar in CA then that makes you a US lawyer, although your only allowed to practice in CA. my friend who passed the NV Bar now practices in NV, she is currently employed in a medium sized law firm there in their litigation department. in addition to that she practices immigration law privately on the side. as i was going over the ABA site on Bar admission, i read that the CA Bar requires foreign educated lawyers to have an LLM to qualify for the bar exam, its worth reading over again as i might have misinterpreted it.

from what i read, an LLM course takes 26 units to finish. if you do it on a full time basis, it will take just 1 year to get the degree.

Lani



Teresa, a JD is equivalent to an LLB, which is what we have in the Philippines. I am assuming this is what you have in latin countries too. i guess the difference between an LLB and a JD is that you need to submit a thesis with a JD course. One law school in manila confers a JD on their graduates instead of an LLB. The ABA however recognizes LLB as an equivalent of a US JD degree, in view of this i would answer Yes in your next question of us, foreign lawyers with LLB degrees in our home countries, being eligible to get an LLM in any US law schools, however prior to admission, we need to submit several requirements and one of those is a TOEFL exam.

I have been in the US for 2 months now, and still enjoying the break i have from work. i'm totally enjoying cooking and baking...might have to seriously consider becoming a Chef instead...hahaha!

It sure is great getting to know you girls, even if its all virtual. Its really helpful to have someone share thoughts and experiences with.

Goodluck on your interview Teresa, just 2 more days.

Angela, i hope your papers get to the NVC soon, i know how hard it is to wait, our papers were stuck in the VSC pile for 6 months before it finally got transferred to CSC then things started moving.

Lani