Hi,
My wife was ticketed for shoplifting and the police told her to go to court the next day.
The judge asked her to pay fine and 16 hours of community service. She did not spent any jail time.
The Judge gave her 180 days probation. After 180 days she was dismissed.
We answered YES on I-751 but not sure how to answer these questions in section D of N-400 when the time comes:
* Have you ever committed a crime or offense for which you were not arrested?
* Have you ever been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement officer
(including USCIS or former INS and military officers) for any reason?
* Have you ever been charged with committing any crime or offense?
* Have you ever been convicted of a crime or offense?
* Have you ever been placed in an alternative sentencing or a rehabilitative program
(for example: diversion, deferred prosecution, withheld adjudication, deferred adjudication)?
* Have you ever received a suspended sentence, been placed on probation or been paroled?
* Have you ever been in jail or prison?
* Have you ever given false or misleading information to any U.S. government official
while applying for any immigration benefit or to prevent deportation, exclusion or removal?
* Have you ever lied to any U.S. government official to gain entry or admission into the
United States?
Thank you!
Full Version: How to answer section D of N-400 application
QUOTE(hchhon @ Apr 23 2008, 03:01 PM) 
Hi,
My wife was ticketed for shoplifting and the police told her to go to court the next day.
The judge asked her to pay fine and 16 hours of community service. She did not spent any jail time.
The Judge gave her 180 days probation. After 180 days she was dismissed.
We answered YES on I-751 but not sure how to answer these questions in section D of N-400 when the time comes:
* Have you ever committed a crime or offense for which you were not arrested?
* Have you ever been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement officer
(including USCIS or former INS and military officers) for any reason?
* Have you ever been charged with committing any crime or offense?
* Have you ever been convicted of a crime or offense?
* Have you ever been placed in an alternative sentencing or a rehabilitative program
(for example: diversion, deferred prosecution, withheld adjudication, deferred adjudication)?
* Have you ever received a suspended sentence, been placed on probation or been paroled?
* Have you ever been in jail or prison?
* Have you ever given false or misleading information to any U.S. government official
while applying for any immigration benefit or to prevent deportation, exclusion or removal?
* Have you ever lied to any U.S. government official to gain entry or admission into the
United States?
Thank you!
My wife was ticketed for shoplifting and the police told her to go to court the next day.
The judge asked her to pay fine and 16 hours of community service. She did not spent any jail time.
The Judge gave her 180 days probation. After 180 days she was dismissed.
We answered YES on I-751 but not sure how to answer these questions in section D of N-400 when the time comes:
* Have you ever committed a crime or offense for which you were not arrested?
* Have you ever been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement officer
(including USCIS or former INS and military officers) for any reason?
* Have you ever been charged with committing any crime or offense?
* Have you ever been convicted of a crime or offense?
* Have you ever been placed in an alternative sentencing or a rehabilitative program
(for example: diversion, deferred prosecution, withheld adjudication, deferred adjudication)?
* Have you ever received a suspended sentence, been placed on probation or been paroled?
* Have you ever been in jail or prison?
* Have you ever given false or misleading information to any U.S. government official
while applying for any immigration benefit or to prevent deportation, exclusion or removal?
* Have you ever lied to any U.S. government official to gain entry or admission into the
United States?
Thank you!
I would answer "yes" to the first four questions and the seventh question. Your wife committed a crime for which she was not arrested, was cited (given a desk appearance ticket) by a law enforcement officer, was charged with committing a crime, was convicted of that crime, and was placed on probation
On edit: the first question is the only one that might be a no. I'm assuming it refers to situations where one is given a desk appearance ticket instead of being arrested. However, I suppose one could read it as referring to situations where one committed a crime but was never "caught."
QUOTE(hchhon @ Apr 23 2008, 12:01 PM)
Hi,
My wife was ticketed for shoplifting and the police told her to go to court the next day.
The judge asked her to pay fine and 16 hours of community service. She did not spent any jail time.
The Judge gave her 180 days probation. After 180 days she was dismissed.
We answered YES on I-751 but not sure how to answer these questions in section D of N-400 when the time comes:
* Have you ever committed a crime or offense for which you were not arrested? [/color]no
* Have you ever been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement officer
(including USCIS or former INS and military officers) for any reason? yes (i'm assuming she was questioned by the police)
* Have you ever been charged with committing any crime or offense?yes
* Have you ever been convicted of a crime or offense?yes
* Have you ever been placed in an alternative sentencing or a rehabilitative program
(for example: diversion, deferred prosecution, withheld adjudication, deferred adjudication)?no
* Have you ever received a suspended sentence, been placed on probation or been paroled?yes
* Have you ever been in jail or prison?no
* Have you ever given false or misleading information to any U.S. government official
while applying for any immigration benefit or to prevent deportation, exclusion or removal? i'm assuming this would be no
* Have you ever lied to any U.S. government official to gain entry or admission into the
United States?[color="#FF0000"]and again, i'm assuming this would be no
Thank you!
My wife was ticketed for shoplifting and the police told her to go to court the next day.
The judge asked her to pay fine and 16 hours of community service. She did not spent any jail time.
The Judge gave her 180 days probation. After 180 days she was dismissed.
We answered YES on I-751 but not sure how to answer these questions in section D of N-400 when the time comes:
* Have you ever committed a crime or offense for which you were not arrested? [/color]no
* Have you ever been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement officer
(including USCIS or former INS and military officers) for any reason? yes (i'm assuming she was questioned by the police)
* Have you ever been charged with committing any crime or offense?yes
* Have you ever been convicted of a crime or offense?yes
* Have you ever been placed in an alternative sentencing or a rehabilitative program
(for example: diversion, deferred prosecution, withheld adjudication, deferred adjudication)?no
* Have you ever received a suspended sentence, been placed on probation or been paroled?yes
* Have you ever been in jail or prison?no
* Have you ever given false or misleading information to any U.S. government official
while applying for any immigration benefit or to prevent deportation, exclusion or removal? i'm assuming this would be no
* Have you ever lied to any U.S. government official to gain entry or admission into the
United States?[color="#FF0000"]and again, i'm assuming this would be no
Thank you!
Using honesty as the best policy, my thought for answers are in red above. Dismissed or not, she was still charged with a crime.
QUOTE(MarkNAshley @ Apr 23 2008, 03:30 PM)
Using honesty as the best policy, my thought for answers are in red above. Dismissed or not, she was still charged with a crime.
A fine and 16 hours of community service sounds like a conviction to me, not a dismissal.
conviction is said when you are in jail, isn't it?
I would answer the same as bellow. For N-400 anyway they would do name check-so, all records would surface. But I don't think that it should be a problem for N-400. It is not really a crime of moral triptitude, right? And sentensing is less than 2 years (the max sentense for shoplifting has to be less than 2 years, right?
Using honesty as the best policy, my thought for answers are in red above. Dismissed or not, she was still charged with a crime.
QUOTE(MarkNAshley @ Apr 23 2008, 03:30 PM)
QUOTE(hchhon @ Apr 23 2008, 12:01 PM)
Hi,
My wife was ticketed for shoplifting and the police told her to go to court the next day.
The judge asked her to pay fine and 16 hours of community service. She did not spent any jail time.
The Judge gave her 180 days probation. After 180 days she was dismissed.
We answered YES on I-751 but not sure how to answer these questions in section D of N-400 when the time comes:
* Have you ever committed a crime or offense for which you were not arrested? [/color]no
* Have you ever been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement officer
(including USCIS or former INS and military officers) for any reason? yes (i'm assuming she was questioned by the police)
* Have you ever been charged with committing any crime or offense?yes
* Have you ever been convicted of a crime or offense?yes
* Have you ever been placed in an alternative sentencing or a rehabilitative program
(for example: diversion, deferred prosecution, withheld adjudication, deferred adjudication)?no
* Have you ever received a suspended sentence, been placed on probation or been paroled?yes
* Have you ever been in jail or prison?no
* Have you ever given false or misleading information to any U.S. government official
while applying for any immigration benefit or to prevent deportation, exclusion or removal? i'm assuming this would be no
* Have you ever lied to any U.S. government official to gain entry or admission into the
United States?[color="#FF0000"]and again, i'm assuming this would be no
Thank you!
My wife was ticketed for shoplifting and the police told her to go to court the next day.
The judge asked her to pay fine and 16 hours of community service. She did not spent any jail time.
The Judge gave her 180 days probation. After 180 days she was dismissed.
We answered YES on I-751 but not sure how to answer these questions in section D of N-400 when the time comes:
* Have you ever committed a crime or offense for which you were not arrested? [/color]no
* Have you ever been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement officer
(including USCIS or former INS and military officers) for any reason? yes (i'm assuming she was questioned by the police)
* Have you ever been charged with committing any crime or offense?yes
* Have you ever been convicted of a crime or offense?yes
* Have you ever been placed in an alternative sentencing or a rehabilitative program
(for example: diversion, deferred prosecution, withheld adjudication, deferred adjudication)?no
* Have you ever received a suspended sentence, been placed on probation or been paroled?yes
* Have you ever been in jail or prison?no
* Have you ever given false or misleading information to any U.S. government official
while applying for any immigration benefit or to prevent deportation, exclusion or removal? i'm assuming this would be no
* Have you ever lied to any U.S. government official to gain entry or admission into the
United States?[color="#FF0000"]and again, i'm assuming this would be no
Thank you!
Using honesty as the best policy, my thought for answers are in red above. Dismissed or not, she was still charged with a crime.
QUOTE(ianletz @ Apr 23 2008, 04:24 PM)
conviction is said when you are in jail, isn't it?
Not really - conviction is the state of being convicted or pronounced guilty of an offence.
The punishment (such as being sentenced to imprisonment) is a different aspect of it.
QUOTE(mawilson @ Apr 23 2008, 04:40 PM)
QUOTE(ianletz @ Apr 23 2008, 04:24 PM)
conviction is said when you are in jail, isn't it?
Not really - conviction is the state of being convicted or pronounced guilty of an offence.
The punishment (such as being sentenced to imprisonment) is a different aspect of it.
Thank you, everyone!
After the I-751 is approved when can she files for N-400?
I have heard that she has to wait for 5 years because of her shoplifting incident.
I am a little confused with these two questions:
17. Have you ever been charged with committing any crime or offense? YES
18. Have you ever been convicted of a crime or offense? YES or NO?
My wife was charged but she was not convicted of her offense. Would it be more correct to answer NO?
17. Have you ever been charged with committing any crime or offense? YES
18. Have you ever been convicted of a crime or offense? YES or NO?
My wife was charged but she was not convicted of her offense. Would it be more correct to answer NO?
QUOTE(hchhon @ Apr 24 2008, 11:21 AM)
I am a little confused with these two questions:
17. Have you ever been charged with committing any crime or offense? YES
18. Have you ever been convicted of a crime or offense? YES or NO?
My wife was charged but she was not convicted of her offense. Would it be more correct to answer NO?
17. Have you ever been charged with committing any crime or offense? YES
18. Have you ever been convicted of a crime or offense? YES or NO?
My wife was charged but she was not convicted of her offense. Would it be more correct to answer NO?
It sounds like your wife was charged and convicted. Even if she didn't serve "time" so to speak, she served something, she had to recompense the community of her infraction. That will typically show up when they do a background check. This is the definition of conviction from Wikipedia.org:
In law, a conviction is the verdict that results when a court of law finds a defendant guilty of a crime. If your wife was not guilty, she would not have served community service.The opposite of a conviction is an acquittal (i.e. "not guilty").
After a defendant is convicted, the court determines the appropriate sentence as a punishment. I.E. your wife's community service.
An accused's history of convictions are called antecedents, known colloquially as "previous") in the UK and "priors" in the United States and Australia.
Sorry to say it, but as of now, your wife's moral turpitude is questionable. Although the infraction is very small, if your wife files now for citizenship, an Immigration Officer does have the authority to deny her application - if they deem it necessary.
I would thoroughly review the USCIS' "A Guide to Naturalization" at: http://www.uscis.gov/files/article/M-476.pdf
On page 25 it states: Examples of Things That Might Demonstrate a Lack of Good Moral Character
• Any crime against property or the Government that involves “fraud” or evil intent...which is what shoplifting is.
Good luck! The best piece of advice is to consult an Immigration Officer through an Infopass appointment or an Immigration Attorney.
QUOTE(hchhon @ Apr 24 2008, 09:54 AM)
I have heard that she has to wait for 5 years because of her shoplifting incident.
She can have the criminal record expunged after 5 years. If an expungement is granted
by a judge, she can treat the event as if it never happened. In fact, she can even deny
that it ever happened under oath and won't be committing perjury in doing so.
Unfortunately, the USCIS is an exception to this rule -- if she decides to naturalize, she will
absolutely have to divulge all arrests and convictions, even after they have been expunged.
Her criminal history might also show up in an FBI check. The FBI are governed by federal
law, not state law, and as such, they are not required to honor expungement orders from
a state court.
QUOTE(hchhon @ Apr 24 2008, 11:21 AM)
I am a little confused with these two questions:
17. Have you ever been charged with committing any crime or offense? YES
18. Have you ever been convicted of a crime or offense? YES or NO?
My wife was charged but she was not convicted of her offense. Would it be more correct to answer NO?
17. Have you ever been charged with committing any crime or offense? YES
18. Have you ever been convicted of a crime or offense? YES or NO?
My wife was charged but she was not convicted of her offense. Would it be more correct to answer NO?
Did she enter a guilty plea and/or agree to a plea bargain? If she did, it was an admission
of the charges against her and essentially the same as a conviction.
QUOTE(hchhon @ Apr 24 2008, 11:21 AM)
I am a little confused with these two questions:
17. Have you ever been charged with committing any crime or offense? YES
18. Have you ever been convicted of a crime or offense? YES or NO?
My wife was charged but she was not convicted of her offense. Would it be more correct to answer NO?
17. Have you ever been charged with committing any crime or offense? YES
18. Have you ever been convicted of a crime or offense? YES or NO?
My wife was charged but she was not convicted of her offense. Would it be more correct to answer NO?
Your wife received a fine and probation, which means she was convicted. One doesn't receive a fine and probation if the court withholds adjudication or if the prosecutor nolle prosses (dismisses) the case. Also, in lieu of being arrested and booked for shoplifting, she was given a desk appearance ticket for shoplifting. So she was still charged with committing a crime.
The final disposition letter says that she was charged. It didn't say that she was convicted.
The clerk told me was not convicted.
Here is her final disposition letter of her case:
=============================================================
MOTION TO DISMISS
Defendant
The People of the State of Colorado move to dismiss the charge(s) of 10.24.080 Theft, as alleged in the Summons and Complaint in this case for the following reason(s):
Completed terms of deferred sentence.
The Court grants the preceding motion to dismiss the charge(s) identified above.
=============================================================
The clerk told me was not convicted.
Here is her final disposition letter of her case:
=============================================================
MOTION TO DISMISS
Defendant
The People of the State of Colorado move to dismiss the charge(s) of 10.24.080 Theft, as alleged in the Summons and Complaint in this case for the following reason(s):
Completed terms of deferred sentence.
The Court grants the preceding motion to dismiss the charge(s) identified above.
=============================================================
Sounds like she was charged with multiple offenses, convicted and completed the terms of
sentence for one of them, and had the other charge (Theft) dismissed.
sentence for one of them, and had the other charge (Theft) dismissed.
Sounds like her case was dismissed completely. So, probation might have a few meangs in law. Even if not all charges were dismissed-she can apply for citizenship and I bet would not have any problems. Shoplifting is not a felony and I am sure that interviewing officer would not have any grounds not to pass her for citizenship based on this criminal record. They would prob ask her to bring court papers and you should ask lawer to prepare a doc from law which would state that according by this-that-paragraph (don't know if this crime goes under state or federal law-but lawers should know) the max charge for this crime is less or equival of 2 years of inprisonment. People commited felony are getting citizenship ofter USCIS establishes some probation time.
QUOTE(hchhon @ Apr 24 2008, 05:45 PM)
The final disposition letter says that she was charged. It didn't say that she was convicted.
The clerk told me was not convicted.
Here is her final disposition letter of her case:
=============================================================
MOTION TO DISMISS
Defendant
The People of the State of Colorado move to dismiss the charge(s) of 10.24.080 Theft, as alleged in the Summons and Complaint in this case for the following reason(s):
Completed terms of deferred sentence.
The Court grants the preceding motion to dismiss the charge(s) identified above.
=============================================================
The clerk told me was not convicted.
Here is her final disposition letter of her case:
=============================================================
MOTION TO DISMISS
Defendant
The People of the State of Colorado move to dismiss the charge(s) of 10.24.080 Theft, as alleged in the Summons and Complaint in this case for the following reason(s):
Completed terms of deferred sentence.
The Court grants the preceding motion to dismiss the charge(s) identified above.
=============================================================
QUOTE(Staashi @ Apr 24 2008, 12:03 PM)
Sorry to say it, but as of now, your wife's moral turpitude is questionable. Although the infraction is very small, if your wife files now for citizenship, an Immigration Officer does have the authority to deny her application - if they deem it necessary.
On page 25 it states: Examples of Things That Might Demonstrate a Lack of Good Moral Character
• Any crime against property or the Government that involves “fraud” or evil intent...which is what shoplifting is.
On page 25 it states: Examples of Things That Might Demonstrate a Lack of Good Moral Character
• Any crime against property or the Government that involves “fraud” or evil intent...which is what shoplifting is.
You see, how not professionals could be wrong (I am not a lawer but always go to professionals for important answers-because even when educated people do analysis in the area of not their expertise, the outcome is guessable). What I know for sure that crimes of moral turpitude are prostitution, nazy crimes (world war II), terrorism and, if not mistaken, drug trafficking. (the list, as I remember, of this type of crimes is very short; I might miss one or max two types, not more. But even murder is not a moral turpitude crime. For moral turpitude crimes-no citizenship ever (or could be revocked). For everything else-some possibilities. Small crimes for which the max punishment is less than two years (by state or federal law-that is why it could be tough to get citzship with DUI lets say from N Carolina where DUI is treated like man slauter) should not be a problem. But I believe that such cases must handle a professional-immigration lawer.
QUOTE(hchhon @ Apr 24 2008, 05:45 PM)
The final disposition letter says that she was charged. It didn't say that she was convicted.
The clerk told me was not convicted.
Here is her final disposition letter of her case:
=============================================================
MOTION TO DISMISS
Defendant
The People of the State of Colorado move to dismiss the charge(s) of 10.24.080 Theft, as alleged in the Summons and Complaint in this case for the following reason(s):
Completed terms of deferred sentence.
The Court grants the preceding motion to dismiss the charge(s) identified above.
=============================================================
The clerk told me was not convicted.
Here is her final disposition letter of her case:
=============================================================
MOTION TO DISMISS
Defendant
The People of the State of Colorado move to dismiss the charge(s) of 10.24.080 Theft, as alleged in the Summons and Complaint in this case for the following reason(s):
Completed terms of deferred sentence.
The Court grants the preceding motion to dismiss the charge(s) identified above.
=============================================================
Aha. If you're going to ask for advice about this kinds of things here, you need to let everything out instead of letting it out in dribs and drabs.
I do not know Colorado law -- I practice in Florida -- but whether your wife's deferred sentence is a conviction for the purposes of the N-400 is not necessarily a simple question. It could be that a deferred sentence is not considered a conviction under Colorado law, or is only considered a conviction for certain purposes -- I do not know. You need to ask a Colorado criminal lawyer.
From what I can see, your wife entered into a deferred sentencing agreement with the DA. The terms of such agreements are usually that the defendant pleads guilty but sentence is deferred for a period of time during which the defendant is to abide by certain conditions. When the deferred sentence is completed (i.e., the defendant complies with the conditions for the period of time), the guilty plea is withdrawn and the court dismisses the case.
However, there is U.S. Supreme Court case law which holds that a plea of guilty is in itself a conviction. Given that CIS is a federal agency, it might not care a whit what Colorado says about whether a deferred sentence is or is not a conviction. I don't know. Nor does anyone else here, unless they are a Colorado immigration (or perhaps criminal) attorney.
QUOTE(russian_armenian @ Apr 25 2008, 01:16 AM)
QUOTE(Staashi @ Apr 24 2008, 12:03 PM)
Sorry to say it, but as of now, your wife's moral turpitude is questionable. Although the infraction is very small, if your wife files now for citizenship, an Immigration Officer does have the authority to deny her application - if they deem it necessary.
On page 25 it states: Examples of Things That Might Demonstrate a Lack of Good Moral Character
• Any crime against property or the Government that involves “fraud” or evil intent...which is what shoplifting is.
On page 25 it states: Examples of Things That Might Demonstrate a Lack of Good Moral Character
• Any crime against property or the Government that involves “fraud” or evil intent...which is what shoplifting is.
You see, how not professionals could be wrong (I am not a lawer but always go to professionals for important answers-because even when educated people do analysis in the area of not their expertise, the outcome is guessable). What I know for sure that crimes of moral turpitude are prostitution, nazy crimes (world war II), terrorism and, if not mistaken, drug trafficking. (the list, as I remember, of this type of crimes is very short; I might miss one or max two types, not more. But even murder is not a moral turpitude crime. For moral turpitude crimes-no citizenship ever (or could be revocked). For everything else-some possibilities. Small crimes for which the max punishment is less than two years (by state or federal law-that is why it could be tough to get citzship with DUI lets say from N Carolina where DUI is treated like man slauter) should not be a problem. But I believe that such cases must handle a professional-immigration lawer.
Actually, Russian_Armenian, when you look up moral turpitude on Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_turpitude, it is prefaced for immigration standards...so here you go. It also states that a definition of moral turpitude is available for immigration purposes on the United States Department of State website. For offenses (or arrests on suspicion of such offenses) occurring outside the U.S., the locally defined offense must be considered against the U.S. definitions, and in such cases it is the definition of the offense (as defined in the appropriate country) which is considered for immigration purposes, and not the circumstances of the individual's actual case.
Furthermore, the list of crimes involving moral turpitude is HUGE!
Here is a little tidbit of the crimes, for which there are four different areas: Crimes Against Property; Crimes Committed Against Governmental Authority; Crimes Committed Against Person, Family Relationship, and Sexual Morality; and Attempts, Aiding and Abetting, Accessories and Conspiracy.
These fall under the Crimes Against Property:
Evil intent:
Arson
Blackmail
Burglary
Embezzlement
Extortion
False pretenses
Forgery
Fraud
Larceny (grand or petty)
Malicious destruction of property
Receiving stolen goods (with guilty knowledge)
Robbery
Theft (when it involves the intention of permanent taking)
Transporting stolen property (with guilty knowledge)
Damaging private property (where intent to damage not required)
Breaking and entering (requiring no specific or implicit intent to commit a crime involving moral turpitude)
Passing bad checks (where intent to defraud not required)
Possessing stolen property (if guilty knowledge is not essential)
Joy riding (where the intention to take permanently not required)
Juvenile delinquency
I'm not trying to get into a pissing match with you, but shoplifting is theft - it is a crime...can be a petty one, like stealing a candy bar, or it could be like Winona Ryder, and commit grand theft by stealing $5,000+ worth of merchandise putting it in a shopping bag. It still is a crime, and it goes against one's moral character or can be the definer of one's moral character. That is why this comes into play during the citizenship application. They want to make sure that anyone applying for citizenship is of good moral character...and someone may be a gem, but they still committed a crime, and their moral character, with the supporting documentation that one has to provide, will be suspect to an IO...which they have the right to take into account when they approve or deny an application.
Staashi, I personally agree with you-for me, any crime has greater or smaller but still lack of good moral character (but could be a medical condition like with many shoplifters; accidents happen to good people and they get convicted, etc).
But long time ago, I have read (what I believe was INS guidlines for immigration officers about categories of crimes and if there is a relief (I belive that was a term used) for a particular crime. The doc was published on website of some law school (don't remember, but think it was Columbia; and somebody has defended PhD based on this official doc). The doc was like 300 pages-mostly tables with classes of crimes; so, I have not really read it (since no use for me). But remember that no relief for crimes of moral turpitude and list of these crimes (I don't remember definition of moral turpitude crimes for INS purposes (but it was quite different from Wikipedia) but the list was short (about 5 classes-prostitution, nazy, terrorism, for sure; drag traficking and slavery are two more listed (but not sure).
I know that people with convictions less than 2 years don't get any problems with immigration. Friend of mine was convicted-fight with property damage and broken limbs. He was fined and spent month in jail. His lawer showed to immigration lawer NY state law which state that the max punishment for his crime in NY was 1 year. Immigration officer told them that there is no problem with his criminal record because how NY state law treats it (less than 2 years). Nobody has questioned his moral character: the man spent 40 years of his life (he is Canadian) without having any problems with law. And on one particular day, see that other man and woman get into verbal fight and jumps on woman defence (breaks ribs and arm of other man and damages other people's property nearby), get arrested and convicted. I would not call it lack of moral character. There is many situations like this. But I believe that every situaiton like this needs a professional/lawer to prepare appropriate defence strategy. I just know that I the person is not a convicted prostitute, nazist, terrorist-there is some legal strategies to get GC/citizenship. I would not feel too stressed out due to shoplifting record, but would hire a lawer.
You see, how not professionals could be wrong (I am not a lawer but always go to professionals for important answers-because even when educated people do analysis in the area of not their expertise, the outcome is guessable). What I know for sure that crimes of moral turpitude are prostitution, nazy crimes (world war II), terrorism and, if not mistaken, drug trafficking. (the list, as I remember, of this type of crimes is very short; I might miss one or max two types, not more. But even murder is not a moral turpitude crime. For moral turpitude crimes-no citizenship ever (or could be revocked). For everything else-some possibilities. Small crimes for which the max punishment is less than two years (by state or federal law-that is why it could be tough to get citzship with DUI lets say from N Carolina where DUI is treated like man slauter) should not be a problem. But I believe that such cases must handle a professional-immigration lawer.
Actually, Russian_Armenian, when you look up moral turpitude on Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_turpitude, it is prefaced for immigration standards...so here you go. It also states that a definition of moral turpitude is available for immigration purposes on the United States Department of State website. For offenses (or arrests on suspicion of such offenses) occurring outside the U.S., the locally defined offense must be considered against the U.S. definitions, and in such cases it is the definition of the offense (as defined in the appropriate country) which is considered for immigration purposes, and not the circumstances of the individual's actual case.
Furthermore, the list of crimes involving moral turpitude is HUGE!
Here is a little tidbit of the crimes, for which there are four different areas: Crimes Against Property; Crimes Committed Against Governmental Authority; Crimes Committed Against Person, Family Relationship, and Sexual Morality; and Attempts, Aiding and Abetting, Accessories and Conspiracy.
These fall under the Crimes Against Property:
Evil intent:
Arson
Blackmail
Burglary
Embezzlement
Extortion
False pretenses
Forgery
Fraud
Larceny (grand or petty)
Malicious destruction of property
Receiving stolen goods (with guilty knowledge)
Robbery
Theft (when it involves the intention of permanent taking)
Transporting stolen property (with guilty knowledge)
Damaging private property (where intent to damage not required)
Breaking and entering (requiring no specific or implicit intent to commit a crime involving moral turpitude)
Passing bad checks (where intent to defraud not required)
Possessing stolen property (if guilty knowledge is not essential)
Joy riding (where the intention to take permanently not required)
Juvenile delinquency
I'm not trying to get into a pissing match with you, but shoplifting is theft - it is a crime...can be a petty one, like stealing a candy bar, or it could be like Winona Ryder, and commit grand theft by stealing $5,000+ worth of merchandise putting it in a shopping bag. It still is a crime, and it goes against one's moral character or can be the definer of one's moral character. That is why this comes into play during the citizenship application. They want to make sure that anyone applying for citizenship is of good moral character...and someone may be a gem, but they still committed a crime, and their moral character, with the supporting documentation that one has to provide, will be suspect to an IO...which they have the right to take into account when they approve or deny an application.
But long time ago, I have read (what I believe was INS guidlines for immigration officers about categories of crimes and if there is a relief (I belive that was a term used) for a particular crime. The doc was published on website of some law school (don't remember, but think it was Columbia; and somebody has defended PhD based on this official doc). The doc was like 300 pages-mostly tables with classes of crimes; so, I have not really read it (since no use for me). But remember that no relief for crimes of moral turpitude and list of these crimes (I don't remember definition of moral turpitude crimes for INS purposes (but it was quite different from Wikipedia) but the list was short (about 5 classes-prostitution, nazy, terrorism, for sure; drag traficking and slavery are two more listed (but not sure).
I know that people with convictions less than 2 years don't get any problems with immigration. Friend of mine was convicted-fight with property damage and broken limbs. He was fined and spent month in jail. His lawer showed to immigration lawer NY state law which state that the max punishment for his crime in NY was 1 year. Immigration officer told them that there is no problem with his criminal record because how NY state law treats it (less than 2 years). Nobody has questioned his moral character: the man spent 40 years of his life (he is Canadian) without having any problems with law. And on one particular day, see that other man and woman get into verbal fight and jumps on woman defence (breaks ribs and arm of other man and damages other people's property nearby), get arrested and convicted. I would not call it lack of moral character. There is many situations like this. But I believe that every situaiton like this needs a professional/lawer to prepare appropriate defence strategy. I just know that I the person is not a convicted prostitute, nazist, terrorist-there is some legal strategies to get GC/citizenship. I would not feel too stressed out due to shoplifting record, but would hire a lawer.
QUOTE(Staashi @ Apr 25 2008, 09:23 AM)
QUOTE(russian_armenian @ Apr 25 2008, 01:16 AM)
QUOTE(Staashi @ Apr 24 2008, 12:03 PM)
Sorry to say it, but as of now, your wife's moral turpitude is questionable. Although the infraction is very small, if your wife files now for citizenship, an Immigration Officer does have the authority to deny her application - if they deem it necessary.
On page 25 it states: Examples of Things That Might Demonstrate a Lack of Good Moral Character
• Any crime against property or the Government that involves “fraud” or evil intent...which is what shoplifting is.
On page 25 it states: Examples of Things That Might Demonstrate a Lack of Good Moral Character
• Any crime against property or the Government that involves “fraud” or evil intent...which is what shoplifting is.
You see, how not professionals could be wrong (I am not a lawer but always go to professionals for important answers-because even when educated people do analysis in the area of not their expertise, the outcome is guessable). What I know for sure that crimes of moral turpitude are prostitution, nazy crimes (world war II), terrorism and, if not mistaken, drug trafficking. (the list, as I remember, of this type of crimes is very short; I might miss one or max two types, not more. But even murder is not a moral turpitude crime. For moral turpitude crimes-no citizenship ever (or could be revocked). For everything else-some possibilities. Small crimes for which the max punishment is less than two years (by state or federal law-that is why it could be tough to get citzship with DUI lets say from N Carolina where DUI is treated like man slauter) should not be a problem. But I believe that such cases must handle a professional-immigration lawer.
Actually, Russian_Armenian, when you look up moral turpitude on Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_turpitude, it is prefaced for immigration standards...so here you go. It also states that a definition of moral turpitude is available for immigration purposes on the United States Department of State website. For offenses (or arrests on suspicion of such offenses) occurring outside the U.S., the locally defined offense must be considered against the U.S. definitions, and in such cases it is the definition of the offense (as defined in the appropriate country) which is considered for immigration purposes, and not the circumstances of the individual's actual case.
Furthermore, the list of crimes involving moral turpitude is HUGE!
Here is a little tidbit of the crimes, for which there are four different areas: Crimes Against Property; Crimes Committed Against Governmental Authority; Crimes Committed Against Person, Family Relationship, and Sexual Morality; and Attempts, Aiding and Abetting, Accessories and Conspiracy.
These fall under the Crimes Against Property:
Evil intent:
Arson
Blackmail
Burglary
Embezzlement
Extortion
False pretenses
Forgery
Fraud
Larceny (grand or petty)
Malicious destruction of property
Receiving stolen goods (with guilty knowledge)
Robbery
Theft (when it involves the intention of permanent taking)
Transporting stolen property (with guilty knowledge)
Damaging private property (where intent to damage not required)
Breaking and entering (requiring no specific or implicit intent to commit a crime involving moral turpitude)
Passing bad checks (where intent to defraud not required)
Possessing stolen property (if guilty knowledge is not essential)
Joy riding (where the intention to take permanently not required)
Juvenile delinquency
I'm not trying to get into a pissing match with you, but shoplifting is theft - it is a crime...can be a petty one, like stealing a candy bar, or it could be like Winona Ryder, and commit grand theft by stealing $5,000+ worth of merchandise putting it in a shopping bag. It still is a crime, and it goes against one's moral character or can be the definer of one's moral character. That is why this comes into play during the citizenship application. They want to make sure that anyone applying for citizenship is of good moral character...and someone may be a gem, but they still committed a crime, and their moral character, with the supporting documentation that one has to provide, will be suspect to an IO...which they have the right to take into account when they approve or deny an application.
Here is the link to the information from the Field Adjudicator's Manual that discusses "Good Moral Character". You might find the information within it along with the various links contained within the text of use.
http://www.uscis.gov/propub/ProPubVAP.jsp?...8ce159d286150e2
http://www.uscis.gov/propub/ProPubVAP.jsp?...8ce159d286150e2
What kind of lawyer should I ask to prepare a document which would state the max charge for this crime in our state?
And how much would I expect to pay for the lawyer to prepare this type of document?
Thank you.
And how much would I expect to pay for the lawyer to prepare this type of document?
Thank you.
QUOTE(hchhon @ Apr 28 2008, 02:47 PM)
What kind of lawyer should I ask to prepare a document which would state the max charge for this crime in our state?
And how much would I expect to pay for the lawyer to prepare this type of document?
Thank you.
And how much would I expect to pay for the lawyer to prepare this type of document?
Thank you.
You need an immigration attorney.
A couple of things: under federal law --
The term “conviction” means, with respect to an alien, a formal judgment of guilt of the alien entered by a court or, if adjudication of guilt has been withheld, where--8 U.S.C. § 1101(a)(48).
(i) a judge or jury has found the alien guilty or the alien has entered a plea of guilty or nolo contendere or has admitted sufficient facts to warrant a finding of guilt, and
(ii) the judge has ordered some form of punishment, penalty, or restraint on the alien's liberty to be imposed.
Also, it is well settled that theft crimes are inherently crimes involving moral turpitude for purposes of the immigration laws. This is so even if the conviction at issue is for petty theft.
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