Simplemale:
What do you mean by "no bad associations?" It is obvious from some names that these are Muslim names, but it is not the case all the time. By looking at some names, finding the religions are not so obvious. During the interview, they are not supposed to ask the job seeker about his religion.
[/quote]
Palilover:
They may not ask but they will make their own assumptions. I was actually asked and very rudely treated by an Israeli interviewer in NYC. Most people will not fight discrimination claims as they are very hard to fight. I spoke to a lawyer in MA regarding a similiar incident and she said everything is at will and they can do what they want. EOE is not alive and well in America.
After the 9/11 attacks, many Muslim men abbreviated their names. many Mohammad's decided to be called Mo instead. When I was living in Ohio, every reference that a white man made to a Muslim was always "Abdullah this" or "Abdullah that". They did not say "some Muslim guy" or "some arab guy"...they would actually use a name of some imaginary arab/Muslim as he was making fun of their way of life and assosiating them with terrorism. So yes, I too believe that names play a part in assosiating certain things with a person or range of people.[/quote]
thats exactly what I meant. Right you are.
times are very hard on muslim men right now!!! especially because mena men are raised in a society where men are the providers. It has got to be very different for them to come to the states and have a taste of the independent american woman!!
I remember when my family first moved here and people were trying to explain the whole process of credit cards to my parents, first thing they though was "free money??"
I remember when my family first moved here and people were trying to explain the whole process of credit cards to my parents, first thing they though was "free money??"
Nordstrom was the first place to which he applied and he got the job. That was 3 months after his arrival, three days after he received authorization to work. He took on a 2nd job at an upscale hotel as security. After overworking himself he went fulltime as security in an office building and quickly became supervisor of security there. He searched for better paying jobs online. Didnt take long for him to land a supervisor position at another hotel. He quit the security gig and now he is a service express supervisor at a lovely hotel. He loves his job and I am very proud of him. 
QUOTE(tammy2688 @ Apr 22 2008, 08:16 PM) 
QUOTE(simple_male @ Apr 22 2008, 11:03 AM)
QUOTE(tammy2688 @ Apr 22 2008, 11:23 AM)
QUOTE(Donna A @ Apr 22 2008, 10:00 AM)
my husband finally after a 2 year wait is in his 2nd year residency and hating every minute of it. he says they are taking advantage of the arabs while the indians are being treated very well and he is sick of it. i keep trying to tell him its only for another year and half to just hang in there but im not so sure he will. they are tearing him down to where he is depressed all the time.
Donna I have seen this as well. A man who came at a similar time, one was Indian, one was from banngladesh, with Muslim name. The bangladeshi one had a masters, very smart young man. The indian man, who is also a friend of ours had little to no education, but a a simpler name with no bad associations. These cases are sometimes isolated but theres just something so hard about getting an Arab/Muslim into the work force. There are people who succeed though, its just a hard process to do. That's why I asked this question, after the first few months of bliss, we are bombarded with these problems. It's best to try to stick it out and I know all these men are intelligent - something good will come with time.
What do you mean by "no bad associations?" It is obvious from some names that these are Muslim names, but it is not the case all the time. By looking at some names, finding the religions are not so obvious. During the interview, they are not supposed to ask the job seeker about his religion.
If after hearing thousands of complaints of bad associations with Muslim names, seeing thousands of innocent men being scrutinized by the government for having names like Muhammads/Ahmed/Khan...after seeing first hand how anyone with a beard is treated..how any Muslim man is treated, how YES, the name directly is associated with religion in many cases and after seeing that yes, indeed after a name is abbreviated that the jobs get easier to have - (my own good friend, went from Sheikh Muhammad to "S.M"...life got better, got job as accountant...after seeing that religion IS asked that equal opportunity, if it were as real as you naiively claim for some odd reason in this post (while I know you know better) then most of the incredibly intelligent men coming in from MENA countries, engineers, doctors, teachers, would not have to look for min wage jobs and hope to climb from the bottom...thats what bad association means for anyone, as Seria said, with a half a brain, who can understand.
your ranting aside, nothing he said was incorrect. one cannot always tell what religion someone is based on their name. and he's correct, no one is ever supposed to be asked what religion they are when they are looking for a job. he never said that it doesn't happen, just that it isn't supposed to happen. and nowhere does he mention he has any naive beliefs about well-qualified men and women from mena coming to the us and finding work straight away with no discrimination whatsoever. the guy doesn't speak english as his first language, and asked you, politely, what you meant in your post by "no bad associations". this hysterical rudeness and half a brain comment were completely uncalled for.
I'm the one who said "half a brain" but its now been taken out of context. What *I* meant is if an interviewer sees a resume with the name Muhammad Al [enter Arabic last name here] they'd probably have a clue (if they had half a brain) that the person applying is Muslim and would not need to ask (although illegal, people DO). Of course not all Muslim's have names that you can tell from, and some do. In our personal experience, people cannot even pronounce my husband's first name so it was easier to shorten it so someone could call without embarrassing themselves when attempting to pronounce it. 
It still sounds Arabic but much easier to say.
I've been asked all kindsssss of illegal things in previous interviews. It happens we all agree on that.
Maybe calling someone naive wasn't the nicest thing (but far worse things have been said around here daily),
but to say she's hysterical? lol
It still sounds Arabic but much easier to say. I've been asked all kindsssss of illegal things in previous interviews. It happens we all agree on that.
Maybe calling someone naive wasn't the nicest thing (but far worse things have been said around here daily),
but to say she's hysterical? lol
QUOTE(tammy2688 @ Apr 22 2008, 09:21 PM)
QUOTE(sereia @ Apr 22 2008, 10:58 AM)
my husband is a mechanical engineer and can't get an interview here in america for the life of him! every job he's sent his resume to doesn't call back. i think just taking any job, going to more school, then looking again after might give him a better chance.
a friend of mine from morocco who moved to the US 32 years ago (things are different now, i know) went to school starting at high school even was a college graduate from morocco....and now he's the vice president of a bank (making bank!lol) so it can happen. i suggest putting all your husbands back in school here and see what happens!
a friend of mine from morocco who moved to the US 32 years ago (things are different now, i know) went to school starting at high school even was a college graduate from morocco....and now he's the vice president of a bank (making bank!lol) so it can happen. i suggest putting all your husbands back in school here and see what happens!
Yes, taking a job and going to school really does help as I have seen it with my own eyes. Yes, I also know a man who came here about 34 years ago, and he is now the executive of Mutual Banking. There is good opportunity to work upwards, its just now with the economy and the taboo on these men, its harder and the process, all the more headachy for us who only wish to see our husbands satisfied with their work and give them peace of mind.
QUOTE(sereia @ Apr 22 2008, 11:04 AM)
but they can tell a lot of times by the person's name if they have half a brain!
i had my husband abbreviate his name because his full name is practically impossible to pronounce. he refuses to use another name all together though.
i had my husband abbreviate his name because his full name is practically impossible to pronounce. he refuses to use another name all together though.
absolutely. as a side note, Simplemale if everyone one did everything they are SUPPOSED to do, like not SUPPOSED to ask/look at religion I wouldn't have even and these concerned women wouldn't have even wasted a breath to respod to this topic.
I never said discrimination does not exist. Again, I know the guideline. An Interviewer is not supposed to ask the job seeker about his religion, race. However, some interviewer might not follow this guideline and of course many job seekers are not aware of this. If one is asked about the race, religion, he/she can simply politely say that he/she prefers not to answer the question. If a job seeker thinks the interviewer is too much concerned about the job seeker's religion, perhaps it is better not to work in that company, if a job offer is made. Sooner or later co-workers, bosses will come to know the religion of the new employee. So the job seeker should make an effort to figure out the company's working environment during the interview and company tour. For your information, sometimes I also interview candidates. It might be easy to find a person's religion by looking at the name, if the name is obvious (mohammad, ahmed, khan, etc). But it is also hard to know a person's religion by looking at the name when the name is not obvious.
And one more thing... When you submit a resume with ALL previous residences, education, and/or experience listed from countries like Morocco, Pakistan, Iran, Egypt, Jordan, Algeria, etc... they can probably safely assume what religious backgrown a person has also without asking. (obviously not all people from those countries are Muslim but an overwhelming majority is.)
QUOTE(sereia @ Apr 22 2008, 11:19 PM)
I've been asked all kindsssss of illegal things in previous interviews. It happens we all agree on that.
Heh, I was asked 2 jobs ago if i was pregnant or planned on becoming pregnant because "he didn't want any kids to be getting in the way of my work."
My husband taught at a University in Jordan-- Anthropology. Anyone who deals in academia knows it's really hard for anyone, American or not, to get into. So he's applied but so far we have no hits. He immediately took a job working maintenance at a hotel, then transferred to another one full-time with better pay. He also has a second full-time job now stacking boxes. I knwo it's not what he wanted or dreamed about, but i am proud he was willing to "step down" from his dream to face reality.
QUOTE(sereia @ Apr 23 2008, 12:22 AM)
And one more thing... When you submit a resume with ALL previous residences, education, and/or experience listed from countries like Morocco, Pakistan, Iran, Egypt, Jordan, Algeria, etc... they can probably safely assume what religious backgrown a person has also without asking. (obviously not all people from those countries are Muslim but an overwhelming majority is.)
Sure! Interviewers can narrow it down from resume too. Even they are not supposed to ask about the marital status. But interviewers sometimes try to find out the job seeker's marital status from their broad conversation without asking the straight question, "are you married?" Sometimes it is helpful to know when it involves relocation issue. But usually the interviewer does not care about to find out the job seeker's religion. I am not saying that all interviewers don't care to know the job seeker's religion.
QUOTE(polarbear @ Apr 22 2008, 10:52 AM)
QUOTE(Olivia* @ Apr 22 2008, 01:45 PM)
Hubby is studying for the USMLE (United States Medical License Equivalent) which after he passes the second part he can start practicing medicine here for a reduced rate then if he passed all three parts. His sister who is a cardiologist came to the US last year with her Hubby who is an orthopedic surgeon and she passed the first part of the USMLE and has some prospects at various institutions in the US already. So she is working on her paper work to come back here later this year or early next year for one of those prospects.
Since her Husband already did a fellowship at John Hopkins this is a good example for her and Waleed. Waleed is also looking for a fellowship or a clerkship to parley him into a group of professionals to give him some experience and some contacts and possibly start a medical business with them when the time comes. I'm sure we'll be fine but only time will tell.
After he passes the exams and is secured in a good job practicing medicine he says we can start a family.
Since her Husband already did a fellowship at John Hopkins this is a good example for her and Waleed. Waleed is also looking for a fellowship or a clerkship to parley him into a group of professionals to give him some experience and some contacts and possibly start a medical business with them when the time comes. I'm sure we'll be fine but only time will tell.
After he passes the exams and is secured in a good job practicing medicine he says we can start a family.
That would be nice. My husband says something similar, but I think he has about a 5 year time frame for that in his head (bc we have to buy a house first 
and that's how long it will take to learn english) and I'd be about 30 at that time 
He talks about buying that house all the time though and I think that's his real marker before having kids, so I'm crossing my fingers and saving my money 
Don't want to have them too quick though....I want some more time to enjoy married life without them
We're thinking about that time frame as well. Problem is though I'm not getting younger and there are higher risks of birth defects after 35. We would also like to purchase a house but one step in front of the other.
QUOTE(Donna A @ Apr 22 2008, 01:30 PM)
QUOTE(Olivia* @ Apr 22 2008, 12:45 PM)
Hubby is studying for the USMLE (United States Medical License Equivalent) which after he passes the second part he can start practicing medicine here for a reduced rate then if he passed all three parts. His sister who is a cardiologist came to the US last year with her Hubby who is an orthopedic surgeon and she passed the first part of the USMLE and has some prospects at various institutions in the US already. So she is working on her paper work to come back here later this year or early next year for one of those prospects.
Since her Husband already did a fellowship at John Hopkins this is a good example for her and Waleed. Waleed is also looking for a fellowship or a clerkship to parley him into a group of professionals to give him some experience and some contacts and possibly start a medical business with them when the time comes. I'm sure we'll be fine but only time will tell.
After he passes the exams and is secured in a good job practicing medicine he says we can start a family.
Since her Husband already did a fellowship at John Hopkins this is a good example for her and Waleed. Waleed is also looking for a fellowship or a clerkship to parley him into a group of professionals to give him some experience and some contacts and possibly start a medical business with them when the time comes. I'm sure we'll be fine but only time will tell.
After he passes the exams and is secured in a good job practicing medicine he says we can start a family.
just a little advice from someone whos been there....tell him study hard and score well on those tests. hassan got 75 on his step 1 and 78 on step 2 and could hardly get a job with those scores. he had to do alot of begging to get into the local hospital residency program. he applied for a ton of programs and did not get one interview. when the post match scramble came we called and called and they wouldnt even talk to him because he didnt score 80. so those scores mean alot in getting a job.
ur husband is also going to have to do a 3 year residency first before a fellowship so dont plan on a family soon and plan on lots of hours alone cuz they will work him to death for a piss poor $40,000/year. its a little more but not much more. i cant remember what the exact amount is.
my husband is behind on his tests. he has 2 more to take before he finishes his second year in the residency program. he hardly has time to study so is best for ur husband to get them all behind him before he starts working.
Thanks for the tips. He's well aware of the scores he needs to get to pick the specialty he wants. His sister was one in seven that took the first part of the test here and she was the only female. She was also the only one that passed with a score of 98%. We don't know how she managed that with taking care of her busy Husband and two small daughters. We think the fact she is having her Masters already may have something to do with it. Waleed is studying very hard and plans to take part 1&2 asap but I'll mention the bit about part 3 to him as well before he even starts looking for work.
wow...98 is great. she will be able to get a residency pretty much anywhere. well i guess it depends on how long she has been out of school. alot of places concider that also. another reason why my husband had such a hard time getting in. imagine that...he practiced medicine in saudi arabia for almost 10 years and his experience didnt help at all. they want new doctors not old ones. some of the programs dont want u to be out of college for over 2-3 years and some 5 years.
oh yeah...start saving up money for those applications too. they are not cheap!!! we spent $1,000 the first year and got noooo interviews so the next year we spent $2,000 and the only interview he got was at the hospital here and only cuz he went there and begged and wouldnt stop begging until they interviewed him.
also prepare yourself for they only hire once a year. so if u dont make it the first time u have to wait a whole year before applying again and with their education no one is going to hire them. my husband applied many places and didnt get called...why would they hire someone who is going to quit as soon as they get a job in their profession anyway?
oh yeah...start saving up money for those applications too. they are not cheap!!! we spent $1,000 the first year and got noooo interviews so the next year we spent $2,000 and the only interview he got was at the hospital here and only cuz he went there and begged and wouldnt stop begging until they interviewed him.
also prepare yourself for they only hire once a year. so if u dont make it the first time u have to wait a whole year before applying again and with their education no one is going to hire them. my husband applied many places and didnt get called...why would they hire someone who is going to quit as soon as they get a job in their profession anyway?
QUOTE(sereia @ Apr 23 2008, 12:22 AM)
And one more thing... When you submit a resume with ALL previous residences, education, and/or experience listed from countries like Morocco, Pakistan, Iran, Egypt, Jordan, Algeria, etc... they can probably safely assume what religious backgrown a person has also without asking. (obviously not all people from those countries are Muslim but an overwhelming majority is.)
Educated people have asked me what language they speak in Morocco. Some others have thought that Morocco was the same as Monaco. I bet the majority have no idea that Morocco is a Muslim country. And unless people hear an "El" or "Al" in the last name or a first name like Mohammed or something, they probably wouldn't know.
Maybe I don't have very much confidence in the American people.
QUOTE
Maybe I don't have very much confidence in the American people.
I wish you were wrong Jenn, but I have a bad feeling you are correct, how sad.
QUOTE(Jenn! @ Apr 23 2008, 08:30 AM)
Educated people have asked me what language they speak in Morocco. Some others have thought that Morocco was the same as Monaco. I bet the majority have no idea that Morocco is a Muslim country. And unless people hear an "El" or "Al" in the last name or a first name like Mohammed or something, they probably wouldn't know.
Maybe I don't have very much confidence in the American people.
Maybe I don't have very much confidence in the American people.
I have this happen so often! Both asking what language(s) they speak and confusing it w/ Monaco...
The majority of people I've spoken w/ also don't have a clue where Morocco is unless they've been there. Many have no clue it is a Muslim (majority) country. I guess I have a serious lack of confidence in the American people as well.
QUOTE(Jenn! @ Apr 23 2008, 08:30 AM)
Educated people have asked me what language they speak in Morocco. Some others have thought that Morocco was the same as Monaco. I bet the majority have no idea that Morocco is a Muslim country. And unless people hear an "El" or "Al" in the last name or a first name like Mohammed or something, they probably wouldn't know.
Maybe I don't have very much confidence in the American people.
Maybe I don't have very much confidence in the American people.
Most people insist, to me, that Jordan is really Georgia.
QUOTE(ME~n~HIM @ Apr 23 2008, 07:34 AM)
QUOTE(Jenn! @ Apr 23 2008, 08:30 AM)
Educated people have asked me what language they speak in Morocco. Some others have thought that Morocco was the same as Monaco. I bet the majority have no idea that Morocco is a Muslim country. And unless people hear an "El" or "Al" in the last name or a first name like Mohammed or something, they probably wouldn't know.
Maybe I don't have very much confidence in the American people.
Maybe I don't have very much confidence in the American people.
I have this happen so often! Both asking what language(s) they speak and confusing it w/ Monaco...
The majority of people I've spoken w/ also don't have a clue where Morocco is unless they've been there. Many have no clue it is a Muslim (majority) country. I guess I have a serious lack of confidence in the American people as well.
umm, when I lived in NEW MEXICO which is, in fact, a state, I had a relative in arkansas ask me once if I had to convert my currency before I came to visit. wow.
QUOTE(julianna @ Apr 23 2008, 10:05 AM)
QUOTE(Jenn! @ Apr 23 2008, 08:30 AM)
Educated people have asked me what language they speak in Morocco. Some others have thought that Morocco was the same as Monaco. I bet the majority have no idea that Morocco is a Muslim country. And unless people hear an "El" or "Al" in the last name or a first name like Mohammed or something, they probably wouldn't know.
Maybe I don't have very much confidence in the American people.
Maybe I don't have very much confidence in the American people.
Most people insist, to me, that Jordan is really Georgia.
LOL... would that be American Georgia or Russian Georgia?
QUOTE(ME~n~HIM @ Apr 23 2008, 11:34 AM)
QUOTE(julianna @ Apr 23 2008, 10:05 AM)
QUOTE(Jenn! @ Apr 23 2008, 08:30 AM)
Educated people have asked me what language they speak in Morocco. Some others have thought that Morocco was the same as Monaco. I bet the majority have no idea that Morocco is a Muslim country. And unless people hear an "El" or "Al" in the last name or a first name like Mohammed or something, they probably wouldn't know.
Maybe I don't have very much confidence in the American people.
Maybe I don't have very much confidence in the American people.
Most people insist, to me, that Jordan is really Georgia.
LOL... would that be American Georgia or Russian Georgia?
Georgia, a part of former Soviet Union is a sovereign country. It is not part of Russia.
He got a few under the table offers for pumping gas but they're under the table so we'll see how desparate the situation gets before thinking about that. EAD isn't done yet but so far the jobs that we're ready to apply him for are with large office supply companies since he worked as a senior sales something majigger for ten years at an office supply store.
I'm sure it won't be that big but he's not too worried about working more than one job to get by for now until he moves up. He did have an interview set up from way back at a pharmacuetical company but we weren't aware that a license to drive was needed so that put the cabosh on that scenario. Bottom line he'll do anything to make money.
I'm sure it won't be that big but he's not too worried about working more than one job to get by for now until he moves up. He did have an interview set up from way back at a pharmacuetical company but we weren't aware that a license to drive was needed so that put the cabosh on that scenario. Bottom line he'll do anything to make money.
QUOTE(stina&suj @ Apr 22 2008, 01:41 PM)
QUOTE(morocco4ever @ Apr 22 2008, 10:45 AM)
Our lawyer in Morocco came once to New York and tried to get into it here. He said it was not easy at all. He eventually gave up and went back to Morocco. I think the problem he had was the language.
I feel really bad for immigrants that come from a highly educated back ground. They get here and pretty much have to start at ground zero. It's not easy.
I feel really bad for immigrants that come from a highly educated back ground. They get here and pretty much have to start at ground zero. It's not easy.
I agree some might have to start all over. But not all. My husband got a job in his field right away(computer programmer/systems analyst). It really matters what field. He happens to be in a very in demand/good paying field. So I guess it matters where you move to and what you do.
Did you husband know english before he came? I think that is a huge part of it.
The company I work for has a huge amount of employees from India, as well as an office in India. They are highly intelligent, and many specialize in computers. The ones I work with on a regular basis know english very well, but have such a strong accent, talk fast, and have learned the pronunciations differently, that I have no idea what they are saying.
Funny story, I am in accounting and they were talking about what I thought was depostion. I couldn't for the life of me figure out what a depostion has to do with accounting. It took forever before I realized he meant depreciation. lol
QUOTE(sara535 @ Apr 23 2008, 10:27 AM)
umm, when I lived in NEW MEXICO which is, in fact, a state, I had a relative in arkansas ask me once if I had to convert my currency before I came to visit. wow.
I had a friend in college who came from Norway. He was asked on one occasion by a fellow classmate how he came to the US-- did he drive or take a bus. From Norway. Non-stop. She informed us that it was just over Alaska, right? By California?
QUOTE(ME~n~HIM @ Apr 23 2008, 10:34 AM)
LOL... would that be American Georgia or Russian Georgia?
American Georgia. They always ask if he came from Atlanta.
Also, in intro to Anth for the apst few years one of the TAs in our program has been giving continent tests... because he realized no one knew where Africa was. So it involves a map and you are supposed to label the 7 continents. Favorite answer is that Africa was "Northern Antarctica."
QUOTE(Jenn! @ Apr 23 2008, 06:30 AM)
QUOTE(sereia @ Apr 23 2008, 12:22 AM)
And one more thing... When you submit a resume with ALL previous residences, education, and/or experience listed from countries like Morocco, Pakistan, Iran, Egypt, Jordan, Algeria, etc... they can probably safely assume what religious backgrown a person has also without asking. (obviously not all people from those countries are Muslim but an overwhelming majority is.)
Educated people have asked me what language they speak in Morocco. Some others have thought that Morocco was the same as Monaco. I bet the majority have no idea that Morocco is a Muslim country. And unless people hear an "El" or "Al" in the last name or a first name like Mohammed or something, they probably wouldn't know.
Maybe I don't have very much confidence in the American people.
Oh I've gotten the Monaco thing (Why would someone know of MONACO over MOROCCO anyway? Thats weird to me), I've been asked the language thing, I've even been asked WHERE Morocco is like they have absolutely no clue of even part of the world its in.
But I tend to have slightly more faith in more educated people who would be doing the reading/hiring of an Engineer anyway. Slightly. lol I bet more people have heard of Morocco versus Georgia (the country) haha!
QUOTE(Ganja_Girl @ Apr 23 2008, 08:53 AM)
QUOTE
Maybe I don't have very much confidence in the American people.
I wish you were wrong Jenn, but I have a bad feeling you are correct, how sad.
Yap...its true. Its nice when you dont have to feel this actually happenning but when you really feel it, it hurts realy bad. Makes you have bad feelings about things you had so much confidence of even a few years back.
I wouldn't really know what language they speak in Morocco if I didn't look it up. French and arabic would come to mind but I wouldn't really blame people for not knowing that. I am sure many intelligent people wouldn't know how many languages are spoken in India. I don't know certain languages spoken in African countries...people know more about what they are interested in.
Though one thing that I used to get asked was if India was in the middle east. Now, that is a dumb question if you ask me.
I agree some might have to start all over. But not all. My husband got a job in his field right away(computer programmer/systems analyst). It really matters what field. He happens to be in a very in demand/good paying field. So I guess it matters where you move to and what you do.
Did you husband know english before he came? I think that is a huge part of it.
The company I work for has a huge amount of employees from India, as well as an office in India. They are highly intelligent, and many specialize in computers. The ones I work with on a regular basis know english very well, but have such a strong accent, talk fast, and have learned the pronunciations differently, that I have no idea what they are saying.
Funny story, I am in accounting and they were talking about what I thought was depostion. I couldn't for the life of me figure out what a depostion has to do with accounting. It took forever before I realized he meant depreciation. lol
Yeah he knew English before he came and doesn't have a really thick accent IMO. But he has a boss that is from India and has a much thicker accent but he has a good job too.
Don't almost all the people moving over know English? Unless the couple talks in a different language together(like Jenn has said in the past in her case). But if they don't, and the man doesn't know English, how are they talking? I can understand if they aren't strong at English but I'd hope they know it somewhat.
Though one thing that I used to get asked was if India was in the middle east. Now, that is a dumb question if you ask me.
QUOTE(morocco4ever @ Apr 23 2008, 11:51 AM)
QUOTE(stina&suj @ Apr 22 2008, 01:41 PM)
QUOTE(morocco4ever @ Apr 22 2008, 10:45 AM)
Our lawyer in Morocco came once to New York and tried to get into it here. He said it was not easy at all. He eventually gave up and went back to Morocco. I think the problem he had was the language.
I feel really bad for immigrants that come from a highly educated back ground. They get here and pretty much have to start at ground zero. It's not easy.
I feel really bad for immigrants that come from a highly educated back ground. They get here and pretty much have to start at ground zero. It's not easy.
I agree some might have to start all over. But not all. My husband got a job in his field right away(computer programmer/systems analyst). It really matters what field. He happens to be in a very in demand/good paying field. So I guess it matters where you move to and what you do.
Did you husband know english before he came? I think that is a huge part of it.
The company I work for has a huge amount of employees from India, as well as an office in India. They are highly intelligent, and many specialize in computers. The ones I work with on a regular basis know english very well, but have such a strong accent, talk fast, and have learned the pronunciations differently, that I have no idea what they are saying.
Funny story, I am in accounting and they were talking about what I thought was depostion. I couldn't for the life of me figure out what a depostion has to do with accounting. It took forever before I realized he meant depreciation. lol
Yeah he knew English before he came and doesn't have a really thick accent IMO. But he has a boss that is from India and has a much thicker accent but he has a good job too.
Don't almost all the people moving over know English? Unless the couple talks in a different language together(like Jenn has said in the past in her case). But if they don't, and the man doesn't know English, how are they talking?
I can understand if they aren't strong at English but I'd hope they know it somewhat.
QUOTE(stina&suj @ Apr 23 2008, 02:28 PM)
I wouldn't really know what language they speak in Morocco if I didn't look it up. French and arabic would come to mind but I wouldn't really blame people for not knowing that. I am sure many intelligent people wouldn't know how many languages are spoken in India. I don't know certain languages spoken in African countries...people know more about what they are interested in.
Though one thing that I used to get asked was if India was in the middle east. Now, that is a dumb question if you ask me.
I agree some might have to start all over. But not all. My husband got a job in his field right away(computer programmer/systems analyst). It really matters what field. He happens to be in a very in demand/good paying field. So I guess it matters where you move to and what you do.
Did you husband know english before he came? I think that is a huge part of it.
The company I work for has a huge amount of employees from India, as well as an office in India. They are highly intelligent, and many specialize in computers. The ones I work with on a regular basis know english very well, but have such a strong accent, talk fast, and have learned the pronunciations differently, that I have no idea what they are saying.
Funny story, I am in accounting and they were talking about what I thought was depostion. I couldn't for the life of me figure out what a depostion has to do with accounting. It took forever before I realized he meant depreciation. lol
Yeah he knew English before he came and doesn't have a really thick accent IMO. But he has a boss that is from India and has a much thicker accent but he has a good job too.
Don't almost all the people moving over know English? Unless the couple talks in a different language together(like Jenn has said in the past in her case). But if they don't, and the man doesn't know English, how are they talking? I can understand if they aren't strong at English but I'd hope they know it somewhat.
Though one thing that I used to get asked was if India was in the middle east. Now, that is a dumb question if you ask me.
QUOTE(morocco4ever @ Apr 23 2008, 11:51 AM)
QUOTE(stina&suj @ Apr 22 2008, 01:41 PM)
QUOTE(morocco4ever @ Apr 22 2008, 10:45 AM)
Our lawyer in Morocco came once to New York and tried to get into it here. He said it was not easy at all. He eventually gave up and went back to Morocco. I think the problem he had was the language.
I feel really bad for immigrants that come from a highly educated back ground. They get here and pretty much have to start at ground zero. It's not easy.
I feel really bad for immigrants that come from a highly educated back ground. They get here and pretty much have to start at ground zero. It's not easy.
I agree some might have to start all over. But not all. My husband got a job in his field right away(computer programmer/systems analyst). It really matters what field. He happens to be in a very in demand/good paying field. So I guess it matters where you move to and what you do.
Did you husband know english before he came? I think that is a huge part of it.
The company I work for has a huge amount of employees from India, as well as an office in India. They are highly intelligent, and many specialize in computers. The ones I work with on a regular basis know english very well, but have such a strong accent, talk fast, and have learned the pronunciations differently, that I have no idea what they are saying.
Funny story, I am in accounting and they were talking about what I thought was depostion. I couldn't for the life of me figure out what a depostion has to do with accounting. It took forever before I realized he meant depreciation. lol
Yeah he knew English before he came and doesn't have a really thick accent IMO. But he has a boss that is from India and has a much thicker accent but he has a good job too.
Don't almost all the people moving over know English? Unless the couple talks in a different language together(like Jenn has said in the past in her case). But if they don't, and the man doesn't know English, how are they talking?
I can understand if they aren't strong at English but I'd hope they know it somewhat.I think we have varying degrees of english comprehension. I can think of one poster in particular on VJ...lol
My husband didn't have any formal training in english. When we first met he really struggled. He is advanced now just from talking on a daily basis. I know he doesn't feel comfortable filling out forms because he is afraid he will misunderstand a question. I am not sure if this would be different if he had formal schooling in english.
Simple Male, discrimination may be illegal, but it happens constantly here in the deep south where we live. I saw it for years against myself as a woman, and my husband sees it as a non-Muslim Arab man. He's been asked to his face if he's a terrorist, if he talks to Bin Laden, been called Bin Laden by supervisors, etc.....
Now that he's unemployed he doesn't even get calls for interviews in spite of a great work history. They just have to see his name for his resume to end up in the trash apparently.
My economics professor made a comment last week in our Labor Economics course that was about like what you were saying. He seems to think that if something is illegal it won't happen very often. That isn't the case. Laws can't change what is in someones heart and mind, no matter how hard we wish they would. People rarely risk sueing for discrimination because it will get a person black-listed for life and nobody wants to be out of work forever (well, some people do, but not the majority.) I put up with sexual harrassment daily for over two years because I was supporting two kids and had no choice and I know many people who do the same.
On the note of knowledge of Morocco - when we send money to his family we've been asked what state Morocco is in even though we put it in the County field on the form. When Abdel tells his co-workers that it is in Africa, they say "Hey, you're our brother man!" That has actually helped him form friendships at work before. Some people seem surprised that there are white people in Africa and think he's lying. He has to explain to them that North Africa is mostly Arab. I have to admit that I knew very little about Africa or Arabs or lots of things before I met an Arab man. The people he meets who know much about Morocco and Africa are usually the older guys at work who were over there during a war or whose fathers were there. We have a lot of retired military down here who are big into US history especially of the wars, so they have studied up on it and love to talk to him about North Africa.
Now that he's unemployed he doesn't even get calls for interviews in spite of a great work history. They just have to see his name for his resume to end up in the trash apparently.
My economics professor made a comment last week in our Labor Economics course that was about like what you were saying. He seems to think that if something is illegal it won't happen very often. That isn't the case. Laws can't change what is in someones heart and mind, no matter how hard we wish they would. People rarely risk sueing for discrimination because it will get a person black-listed for life and nobody wants to be out of work forever (well, some people do, but not the majority.) I put up with sexual harrassment daily for over two years because I was supporting two kids and had no choice and I know many people who do the same.
On the note of knowledge of Morocco - when we send money to his family we've been asked what state Morocco is in even though we put it in the County field on the form. When Abdel tells his co-workers that it is in Africa, they say "Hey, you're our brother man!" That has actually helped him form friendships at work before. Some people seem surprised that there are white people in Africa and think he's lying. He has to explain to them that North Africa is mostly Arab. I have to admit that I knew very little about Africa or Arabs or lots of things before I met an Arab man. The people he meets who know much about Morocco and Africa are usually the older guys at work who were over there during a war or whose fathers were there. We have a lot of retired military down here who are big into US history especially of the wars, so they have studied up on it and love to talk to him about North Africa.
Yeah, I guess you can't expect your average Joe to know much about North Africa.
I just thought with 911 and the "War on Terror" etc., that more people would have an awareness of the region.
Just the other day I got Bhutan and Benin confused and had to have my 10-year-old sister correct me.
I just thought with 911 and the "War on Terror" etc., that more people would have an awareness of the region.
Just the other day I got Bhutan and Benin confused and had to have my 10-year-old sister correct me.
QUOTE(honeyblonde @ Apr 23 2008, 12:42 PM)
Now that he's unemployed he doesn't even get calls for interviews in spite of a great work history. They just have to see his name for his resume to end up in the trash apparently.
My economics professor made a comment last week in our Labor Economics course that was about like what you were saying. He seems to think that if something is illegal it won't happen very often. That isn't the case. Laws can't change what is in someones heart and mind, no matter how hard we wish they would. People rarely risk sueing for discrimination because it will get a person black-listed for life and nobody wants to be out of work forever (well, some people do, but not the majority.) I put up with sexual harrassment daily for over two years because I was supporting two kids and had no choice and I know many people who do the same.
My economics professor made a comment last week in our Labor Economics course that was about like what you were saying. He seems to think that if something is illegal it won't happen very often. That isn't the case. Laws can't change what is in someones heart and mind, no matter how hard we wish they would. People rarely risk sueing for discrimination because it will get a person black-listed for life and nobody wants to be out of work forever (well, some people do, but not the majority.) I put up with sexual harrassment daily for over two years because I was supporting two kids and had no choice and I know many people who do the same.
Discrimination is also very hard to prove. If he wasn't hired based on his religion or background the company won't site that as the reason why. They will most likely say that there were other candidates more qualified than he was. It's hard to know what the reasons why someone isn't getting a call back for employment unless you are in the company itself.
I'm currently looking to hire someone in my department and I have recieved over 200 resumes. It would be very easy for any candidate to say that I didn't call them back due to their race, religion, name, etc. Howevr they don't know how qualified other candidates are that apply. In the end, I can only hire 1 person for the job but regardless of who I select that doesn't mean that I am discriminating against the others that applied. I'll also add that not all hiring managers will review all the resumes they get. Like I said, I got 200 and if I find a good candidate by the time I get through 50 resumes then I will call them in for an interview. I guess what I am trying to say is dont be so quick to say he is being discriminated against because you don't know the reasons for someone elses actions.
JP....Ill move to cali and u can hire me....
QUOTE(ks71905 @ Apr 23 2008, 01:07 PM)
JP....Ill move to cali and u can hire me....
whoo hoo! done! You might be ready to come back from maternity leave when I get ready to take mine
lol....FMLA covers my arse for 12 weeks, but the bank only wants to pay me for 6 of them, so saadly, i will go back 6 weeks after zaid is born....these past 2 weeks ive been using PTO....boooo i need more benefits...lol
QUOTE(ks71905 @ Apr 23 2008, 01:11 PM)
lol....FMLA covers my arse for 12 weeks, but the bank only wants to pay me for 6 of them, so saadly, i will go back 6 weeks after zaid is born....these past 2 weeks ive been using PTO....boooo i need more benefits...lol
Im not sure that is right. The HR dept here told me that I will get short term disability for 6 weeks but if my doctor thinks I need more of a recovery time, they will extend my disability. FMLA just covers your job for 12 weeks so they can't fire you, lay you off, or change your position. I'm not sure what the laws are in Illinois but you might want to look into that.
QUOTE(♥JP♥ @ Apr 23 2008, 04:18 PM)
QUOTE(ks71905 @ Apr 23 2008, 01:11 PM)
lol....FMLA covers my arse for 12 weeks, but the bank only wants to pay me for 6 of them, so saadly, i will go back 6 weeks after zaid is born....these past 2 weeks ive been using PTO....boooo i need more benefits...lol
Im not sure that is right. The HR dept here told me that I will get short term disability for 6 weeks but if my doctor thinks I need more of a recovery time, they will extend my disability. FMLA just covers your job for 12 weeks so they can't fire you, lay you off, or change your position. I'm not sure what the laws are in Illinois but you might want to look into that.
My company also only gives 6 weeks of PTO after delivery (8 weeks for C-section). I *think* that's pretty standard.
ETA: I think 6 weeks sucks btw. You should see the laws on maternity leave they have in Italy. Something like 75% pay for 2 years, I can't remember precisely, but it'd almost be worth moving back there just for the maternity benefits.
We have the same policy here.
QUOTE(♥JP♥ @ Apr 23 2008, 04:18 PM)
Im not sure that is right. The HR dept here told me that I will get short term disability for 6 weeks but if my doctor thinks I need more of a recovery time, they will extend my disability. FMLA just covers your job for 12 weeks so they can't fire you, lay you off, or change your position. I'm not sure what the laws are in Illinois but you might want to look into that.
What do you mean save up for applications? Where is your Husband applying and why do they charge $1,000-$2,000 to interview him? I don't understand.
Waleed's Sister finished her masters in cardiology recently and is moving on to her Ph.D. which they are coming back to the US to finish. Her Husband just finished his Ph.D. with a fellowship in Orthopedic Surgery at John Hopkin's in Baltimore. I kind of have my hopes that when his sister comes back for her Ph.D. fellowship/internship where ever she chooses that Waleed may have some in's. Also I worked at a hospital for 8 years and I know literally hundreds of doctors in my region. Plus my older brother has a franchise in a medical software business that installed software into private doctors offices all over the country so there are loads of connections there too. He often tells me where they are hiring and for which kind of position and speaks to the doctors who have made the transition to here from other countries for tips to help Waleed's transition.
But I am so curious what do you mean about these high costs of the applications? Is this the region where you are living? Did your Husband finally have success?
Waleed's Sister finished her masters in cardiology recently and is moving on to her Ph.D. which they are coming back to the US to finish. Her Husband just finished his Ph.D. with a fellowship in Orthopedic Surgery at John Hopkin's in Baltimore. I kind of have my hopes that when his sister comes back for her Ph.D. fellowship/internship where ever she chooses that Waleed may have some in's. Also I worked at a hospital for 8 years and I know literally hundreds of doctors in my region. Plus my older brother has a franchise in a medical software business that installed software into private doctors offices all over the country so there are loads of connections there too. He often tells me where they are hiring and for which kind of position and speaks to the doctors who have made the transition to here from other countries for tips to help Waleed's transition.
But I am so curious what do you mean about these high costs of the applications? Is this the region where you are living? Did your Husband finally have success?
QUOTE(Donna A @ Apr 23 2008, 05:33 AM)
wow...98 is great. she will be able to get a residency pretty much anywhere. well i guess it depends on how long she has been out of school. alot of places concider that also. another reason why my husband had such a hard time getting in. imagine that...he practiced medicine in saudi arabia for almost 10 years and his experience didnt help at all. they want new doctors not old ones. some of the programs dont want u to be out of college for over 2-3 years and some 5 years.
oh yeah...start saving up money for those applications too. they are not cheap!!! we spent $1,000 the first year and got noooo interviews so the next year we spent $2,000 and the only interview he got was at the hospital here and only cuz he went there and begged and wouldnt stop begging until they interviewed him.
also prepare yourself for they only hire once a year. so if u dont make it the first time u have to wait a whole year before applying again and with their education no one is going to hire them. my husband applied many places and didnt get called...why would they hire someone who is going to quit as soon as they get a job in their profession anyway?
oh yeah...start saving up money for those applications too. they are not cheap!!! we spent $1,000 the first year and got noooo interviews so the next year we spent $2,000 and the only interview he got was at the hospital here and only cuz he went there and begged and wouldnt stop begging until they interviewed him.
also prepare yourself for they only hire once a year. so if u dont make it the first time u have to wait a whole year before applying again and with their education no one is going to hire them. my husband applied many places and didnt get called...why would they hire someone who is going to quit as soon as they get a job in their profession anyway?
QUOTE(Jenn! @ Apr 23 2008, 04:25 PM)
QUOTE(♥JP♥ @ Apr 23 2008, 04:18 PM)
QUOTE(ks71905 @ Apr 23 2008, 01:11 PM)
lol....FMLA covers my arse for 12 weeks, but the bank only wants to pay me for 6 of them, so saadly, i will go back 6 weeks after zaid is born....these past 2 weeks ive been using PTO....boooo i need more benefits...lol
Im not sure that is right. The HR dept here told me that I will get short term disability for 6 weeks but if my doctor thinks I need more of a recovery time, they will extend my disability. FMLA just covers your job for 12 weeks so they can't fire you, lay you off, or change your position. I'm not sure what the laws are in Illinois but you might want to look into that.
My company also only gives 6 weeks of PTO after delivery (8 weeks for C-section). I *think* that's pretty standard.
ETA: I think 6 weeks sucks btw. You should see the laws on maternity leave they have in Italy. Something like 75% pay for 2 years, I can't remember precisely, but it'd almost be worth moving back there just for the maternity benefits.
Even in Canada, the offer many month's PTO. One of my friends has become a father recently. Even he is getting many month's PTO now.
JP...its exactly the same benefits im getting....6 weeks PTO....8 if i was to have a csection....and i could take 12 weeks off under FMLA...
QUOTE(ks71905 @ Apr 23 2008, 02:10 PM)
JP...its exactly the same benefits im getting....6 weeks PTO....8 if i was to have a csection....and i could take 12 weeks off under FMLA...
Right but I think if your doctor decides you need more than 6 or 8 weeks due to medical reasons, you will get that time paid as well.
QUOTE(♥JP♥ @ Apr 23 2008, 05:12 PM)
QUOTE(ks71905 @ Apr 23 2008, 02:10 PM)
JP...its exactly the same benefits im getting....6 weeks PTO....8 if i was to have a csection....and i could take 12 weeks off under FMLA...
Right but I think if your doctor decides you need more than 6 or 8 weeks due to medical reasons, you will get that time paid as well.
That determination is made based on your company's disability benefits. It doesn't have anything to do with the law. Some companies don't pay for anything, they just hold your job for you.
QUOTE(Bassi and Zainab @ Apr 23 2008, 02:32 PM)
QUOTE(♥JP♥ @ Apr 23 2008, 05:12 PM)
QUOTE(ks71905 @ Apr 23 2008, 02:10 PM)
JP...its exactly the same benefits im getting....6 weeks PTO....8 if i was to have a csection....and i could take 12 weeks off under FMLA...
Right but I think if your doctor decides you need more than 6 or 8 weeks due to medical reasons, you will get that time paid as well.
That determination is made based on your company's disability benefits. It doesn't have anything to do with the law. Some companies don't pay for anything, they just hold your job for you.
I agree this differs from state to state, however its not state disability that holds you job, its FMLA. If your company has a short term disability plan then it is your doctor who will make the determination not the company. The company cannot let you go back to work until you have been cleared from the doctor. Some companies will subsidize the benefits you receive from the state so that you get more of you pay. Some companies just let the state pay you based on the taxes you have paid. Like I said before, Kelly should check to see what the laws are in her state. The statements I have made are based on the laws in my state.
QUOTE(simple_male @ Apr 22 2008, 11:35 PM)
QUOTE(sereia @ Apr 23 2008, 12:22 AM)
And one more thing... When you submit a resume with ALL previous residences, education, and/or experience listed from countries like Morocco, Pakistan, Iran, Egypt, Jordan, Algeria, etc... they can probably safely assume what religious backgrown a person has also without asking. (obviously not all people from those countries are Muslim but an overwhelming majority is.)
Sure! Interviewers can narrow it down from resume too. Even they are not supposed to ask about the marital status. But interviewers sometimes try to find out the job seeker's marital status from their broad conversation without asking the straight question, "are you married?" Sometimes it is helpful to know when it involves relocation issue. But usually the interviewer does not care about to find out the job seeker's religion. I am not saying that all interviewers don't care to know the job seeker's religion.
first of all I asked MENA WOMEN ABOUT THEIR HUSBANDS - we know all this theres no reason to chime in with information that everyone knows. This topic was to expose the concerns of those people who's husbands are coming and the problems finding jobs - we dont need wisdom that is so blah that everyone knows..please voice your concerns here and dont waste your breath with whats already known and understood.
QUOTE(simple_male @ Apr 22 2008, 11:19 PM)
QUOTE(tammy2688 @ Apr 22 2008, 09:21 PM)
QUOTE(sereia @ Apr 22 2008, 10:58 AM)
my husband is a mechanical engineer and can't get an interview here in america for the life of him! every job he's sent his resume to doesn't call back. i think just taking any job, going to more school, then looking again after might give him a better chance.
a friend of mine from morocco who moved to the US 32 years ago (things are different now, i know) went to school starting at high school even was a college graduate from morocco....and now he's the vice president of a bank (making bank!lol) so it can happen. i suggest putting all your husbands back in school here and see what happens!
a friend of mine from morocco who moved to the US 32 years ago (things are different now, i know) went to school starting at high school even was a college graduate from morocco....and now he's the vice president of a bank (making bank!lol) so it can happen. i suggest putting all your husbands back in school here and see what happens!
Yes, taking a job and going to school really does help as I have seen it with my own eyes. Yes, I also know a man who came here about 34 years ago, and he is now the executive of Mutual Banking. There is good opportunity to work upwards, its just now with the economy and the taboo on these men, its harder and the process, all the more headachy for us who only wish to see our husbands satisfied with their work and give them peace of mind.
QUOTE(sereia @ Apr 22 2008, 11:04 AM)
but they can tell a lot of times by the person's name if they have half a brain!
i had my husband abbreviate his name because his full name is practically impossible to pronounce. he refuses to use another name all together though.
i had my husband abbreviate his name because his full name is practically impossible to pronounce. he refuses to use another name all together though.
absolutely. as a side note, Simplemale if everyone one did everything they are SUPPOSED to do, like not SUPPOSED to ask/look at religion I wouldn't have even and these concerned women wouldn't have even wasted a breath to respod to this topic.
I never said discrimination does not exist. Again, I know the guideline. An Interviewer is not supposed to ask the job seeker about his religion, race. However, some interviewer might not follow this guideline and of course many job seekers are not aware of this. If one is asked about the race, religion, he/she can simply politely say that he/she prefers not to answer the question. If a job seeker thinks the interviewer is too much concerned about the job seeker's religion, perhaps it is better not to work in that company, if a job offer is made. Sooner or later co-workers, bosses will come to know the religion of the new employee. So the job seeker should make an effort to figure out the company's working environment during the interview and company tour. For your information, sometimes I also interview candidates. It might be easy to find a person's religion by looking at the name, if the name is obvious (mohammad, ahmed, khan, etc). But it is also hard to know a person's religion by looking at the name when the name is not obvious.
We all know this...please again, this topic is to voice conerns of jobs that are happenning here and the problems faced by MENA newcomers, not a topic to discuss the hiring process. No need to talk of guidelines we all know them this is a topic for MENA women voicing concern of the situation at hand.
thank you
Tammy, you are out of line. Simple Male is just trying to be helpful and it is often that threads branch out into tangents.
QUOTE(Jenn! @ Apr 23 2008, 03:24 PM)
Tammy, you are out of line. Simple Male is just trying to be helpful and it is often that threads branch out into tangents.
Agreed. I don't think there is much more to discuss in this topic anyway which is why is veering off to another track.
wow
QUOTE(Jenn! @ Apr 23 2008, 05:24 PM)
Tammy, you are out of line. Simple Male is just trying to be helpful and it is often that threads branch out into tangents.
I asked a question for some answers like: Since my husband came he faced . . . thats all. Yes they do branch into tangents and are actually very helpful in many ways when things that weren't stated get discussed. I was irked because its something we all know that no you can't tell all Muslims by name...and we all know muslims get bad assotiations because of the world situation right now...no need to ask what I meant, we are passed all that.
Its fine though, from the posts here, the answers I essentially wanted are all given. Its a concern and a serious one at that. I hope that in the near future there can be a shift in mindset, it may take many years but progress is happenning.
QUOTE(honeyblonde @ Apr 23 2008, 02:42 PM)
Simple Male, discrimination may be illegal, but it happens constantly here in the deep south where we live. I saw it for years against myself as a woman, and my husband sees it as a non-Muslim Arab man. He's been asked to his face if he's a terrorist, if he talks to Bin Laden, been called Bin Laden by supervisors, etc.....
Now that he's unemployed he doesn't even get calls for interviews in spite of a great work history. They just have to see his name for his resume to end up in the trash apparently.
My economics professor made a comment last week in our Labor Economics course that was about like what you were saying. He seems to think that if something is illegal it won't happen very often. That isn't the case. Laws can't change what is in someones heart and mind, no matter how hard we wish they would. People rarely risk sueing for discrimination because it will get a person black-listed for life and nobody wants to be out of work forever (well, some people do, but not the majority.) I put up with sexual harrassment daily for over two years because I was supporting two kids and had no choice and I know many people who do the same.
On the note of knowledge of Morocco - when we send money to his family we've been asked what state Morocco is in even though we put it in the County field on the form. When Abdel tells his co-workers that it is in Africa, they say "Hey, you're our brother man!" That has actually helped him form friendships at work before. Some people seem surprised that there are white people in Africa and think he's lying. He has to explain to them that North Africa is mostly Arab. I have to admit that I knew very little about Africa or Arabs or lots of things before I met an Arab man. The people he meets who know much about Morocco and Africa are usually the older guys at work who were over there during a war or whose fathers were there. We have a lot of retired military down here who are big into US history especially of the wars, so they have studied up on it and love to talk to him about North Africa.
Now that he's unemployed he doesn't even get calls for interviews in spite of a great work history. They just have to see his name for his resume to end up in the trash apparently.
My economics professor made a comment last week in our Labor Economics course that was about like what you were saying. He seems to think that if something is illegal it won't happen very often. That isn't the case. Laws can't change what is in someones heart and mind, no matter how hard we wish they would. People rarely risk sueing for discrimination because it will get a person black-listed for life and nobody wants to be out of work forever (well, some people do, but not the majority.) I put up with sexual harrassment daily for over two years because I was supporting two kids and had no choice and I know many people who do the same.
On the note of knowledge of Morocco - when we send money to his family we've been asked what state Morocco is in even though we put it in the County field on the form. When Abdel tells his co-workers that it is in Africa, they say "Hey, you're our brother man!" That has actually helped him form friendships at work before. Some people seem surprised that there are white people in Africa and think he's lying. He has to explain to them that North Africa is mostly Arab. I have to admit that I knew very little about Africa or Arabs or lots of things before I met an Arab man. The people he meets who know much about Morocco and Africa are usually the older guys at work who were over there during a war or whose fathers were there. We have a lot of retired military down here who are big into US history especially of the wars, so they have studied up on it and love to talk to him about North Africa.
Thats essentially what I mean by bad associations - I think we all understand that here. Asking me what are bad associations wasn't being helpful, it was trying to argue that there should not be such associations because employers are not supposed to ask he religion and also that all names do not reveal religion. again i think we all know that right now those things are not always happenning, and employers are not being neutral and it is quite obvious what I meant by bad associations.
QUOTE(Bassi and Zainab @ Apr 22 2008, 02:25 PM)
QUOTE(Nutty @ Apr 22 2008, 02:03 PM)
QUOTE(Bassi and Zainab @ Apr 22 2008, 12:52 PM)
QUOTE(Nutty @ Apr 22 2008, 01:37 PM)
Abbas is a chemical engineer with a sub specialty in petroleum and gas.
I want him to follow his engineering career here in the USA. However, not if we have to move to some crap area to pursue this. Like out in the middle of Texas.
Abbas, knows that chemical engineering is the best way to make some money. But his dream is to pursue skulpture and painting. He wants to open some sort of business doing base relief skulpture on people's houses. What he does not realize, this may be popular in Iran.but it would not work for houses made of wood (like the ones here in Portland, OR). It may work in New Mexico because they have a lot of adobe style buildings.
I try to encourage him to follow his dreams, but I also want him to realize that it will take baby steps.
Many foreigners think that life in USA is easy and that jobs and money fall from the trees. But that is not the case.
I want him to follow his engineering career here in the USA. However, not if we have to move to some crap area to pursue this. Like out in the middle of Texas.
Abbas, knows that chemical engineering is the best way to make some money. But his dream is to pursue skulpture and painting. He wants to open some sort of business doing base relief skulpture on people's houses. What he does not realize, this may be popular in Iran.but it would not work for houses made of wood (like the ones here in Portland, OR). It may work in New Mexico because they have a lot of adobe style buildings.
I try to encourage him to follow his dreams, but I also want him to realize that it will take baby steps.
Many foreigners think that life in USA is easy and that jobs and money fall from the trees. But that is not the case.
He might also consider work in a museum. Which many people don't think about.....the NYS State Museum has a petroleum and gas specialist on its payroll. They do scientific type stuff (ok, I was a liberal arts major).
Anything is possible...But I think the first thing is to see if he can get a job here in the pacific Northwest or California. Since I am already established. I would really only prefer to move if the money/salary is exceptionally good.
Oh, no, that's not what I meant. I meant that maybe there are positions in museums there that are similar to what we have here.
We'll see....
It is not impossble for your husband to go into the hotel business. One of my first jobs was front desk agent/cashier for Sheraton Boston Hotel & Towers. Often, people who have degrees in hospitality management have to do internships at all levels of hotel business. Catering, housekeeping, maintenance, reservations. your husband may try for "back of the house" position with a larger chain. Having a second language is also a plus for hotel work. Working in hotel business is hard, but it teaches practical knowledge.
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