Oh...you're a sociologist I take it? Most women huh? Great, when do we get to read your research paper? Can't wait...Dude.

You are showing a gender and generational disconnect (most Russians are not young campus intellects like yourself sitting around a pub and being cool and discussing the equal rights amendment) and your PC woman's advocate stance is better used in the USA where women like to assume the victim role even as they succeed and prosper and achieve.

Russian men are Russian men and Russian women serve them..that's the current system. If you don't like it, talk to Putin. i don't hear Russian women complaining as they're willing participants. The tradition is passed from mother to daughter and Russian moms are strong forces in Russia. Why not? There's 15 women to one man. I'd say the men can pick and choose and make up the rules...which they do with a strong hand. Russian men are hard and tough and dominant...deal with it.

You what to revise history and worship young Russian men...ok, have fun...but it's bull. In Russia it's is, indeed, a man's world and women accept it as correct because in their world men are the stronger sex...the leaders...the head of the family. They don't realize anything is wrong. It is normal. If you suggested to them that their husband raped them, they'd look at you like your crazy.

You've got a lot to learn. A lot. And you need to loose your American "glasses' and see things as Russians see them. It is a land of scarcity, not abundance. People do many things to survive. Don't look down your American nose. Respect their ways and leave your own female baggage at home. Life in STB is not everyday Russia.

You don't like the sounds of that...what can you do? I think you'd do better hanging out in the USA where you and your sisters have a better deal going on. But if you embrace Russia, don't spin it, flower it up, or shame men for doing what Russians do.

Ты не знаешь ничего о моей жизни или опытах, особенно с мучжинами. Это очевидно, что ты тоже не знаешь ничего о России или русских.

and what the hell is stb?

and by the way i don't think i have "female baggage"... i think you have male baggage. So I want an equal relationship with mutual respect? what kind of crazy world do you live in? wtf.

I live in crazy USA and I'm about to create a new world that I've never lived in before...neither Russian or American...but something new. An experiment. I'm not a Russian man and i don't want to be the same old American either...I want something without a name or label. But it will be, I hope, glorious.

And, my dear, "WTF" is so unladylike. Please.

If you want something glorious... start with the building blocks--respect and mutual understanding. without them you have nothing.

and please refrain from calling me "dear." if you don't want someone to write wtf--don't write things which are wtf-worthy.

Oh..forgot. What the hell is STB? Well, I think you're pretty smart and I just bet you figured out I meant SPB or St. Petersburg if you like. But if not, now you know.


Sorry honey!

i would say something back to you but it would violate the TOS.

and of course i understand what stb was "supposed" to be, but i just saw no logic in the formation of your abbreviation.

Please do not violate me!

Well, who do you expect me to serve, you?

You don't like Russian or American men? Russian women are supposed to hate Russian men because they are dominating and run to you because Russian men treat them like $hit? And in return you think they want you to dominate them, as that is somehow different then the Russian man who dominated them before?

I can't put your thoughts together. They tend to conflict.

Yes, I understand woman don't want a man who turns to jelly at every crisis. They don't want to initiate everything. I get it. Or rather, I got it. Are you taking it to the extreme to play devils advocate? It just seems like you are pontificating without purpose. I get the feeling you are just trying to get a rise out of people.

Disgusting and disrespectful, but not surprising. I can't believe you're the same age as my parents.

The self-serving comment was not directed at you if that's what you are reacting to. And as to the rest, well, each will evaluate it as they see it. These threads can take on a life of their own...obviously. The original purpose can get quickly lost. Some of the jousting with certain posters has a history that flavors things.

Maybe you see it as history-based, but I don't have any particular vitriol reserved for you--you just happen to often say things that I disagree with/find offensive. Generation gap, totally different life experiences--is it so surprising?

You interjected yourself into this discussion uninvited...so take your medicine like an adult. I've done nothing disrespectful or disgusting. I tried to lighten up with some jokes but you want to keep fighting and name calling now. OK. Have a good tantrum. You think I'm disgusting. I think you're immature and a hotshot young woman who thinks she's got it all figured out. Respect your elders still is sound advice.

The honey was a joke...if i even need to say that.

Cool down...you'll live longer.

No it's not surprising. I get i push your buttons...and you can hit a few of my keys too. And, men are from Mars, women are from Venus. Yes?

If only it were as simple as that book laid it to be.

Wow, gone for a day and all hell breaks loose.

SCii, was this all a joke or did you go off the reservation for a little while?

eekee, while I think SCii is misguided if this isnt a joke, you do seem to have a chip on your shoulder from time to time, which is what he is talking about in most of your sparring.

Edited for spelling (its too late!)

eh, I just call it like I see it. If someone can prove me wrong, then I'm all for it. If they can't, well, too bad.

I actually don't know what SCii is talking about in the most of the sparring because it is so far removed from any conceivable reality that I have experienced.

ah this thread is hilarious!

actually it wasnt directed to you, dude..

And its called experience, but you can call it research.

Oh...which "Dude" were you addressing?

We might be able to eliminate Eekee. But then again...

Is it not obvious?

Each individual is entitled to his/her opinion, and he/she is entitled to express that opinion. Everyone else is entitled to agree or disagree in part or entirety and to express such thoughts.

It's sometimes difficult to tell if someone is being serious or not in some of these threads. If seanconneryii is in fact expressing his true thoughts and opinions.......

I will say that I respectfully and strongly disagree with the thoughts and opinions expressed recently by seanconneryii.

Also, I have a few observations that I wanted to comment on in reference to the following quotes from seanconneryii:

“I don't do personal attacks or counter attacks on someone's Russian girlfriend or wife”

“Not even close or similar except in your misguided mind.”

“OK. Have a good tantrum. You think I'm disgusting. I think you're immature and a hotshot young woman who thinks she's got it all figured out. Respect your elders still is sound advice.”

“A very self-serving comment...and very sideways. But you are, after all, American. What can we expect?”

“You're the Russian hotshot...you ought to know this.”

To me, the above comments seem rather personal, and they don't really seem all that complimentary.....


“She also told me her mother never refused her father sex, even if she didn't feel well.”

How many children know such intimate details about their parents' sex lives?


“Oh...you're a sociologist I take it? Most women huh? Great, when do we get to read your research paper? Can't wait...Dude.”

An interesting comment coming from one who has been delivering plenty of "factual" information. Maybe we could see the data and research to support your "facts"? Your credentials?


“You interjected yourself into this discussion uninvited...so take your medicine like an adult.”

I believe that eekee was just as much invited into the discussion as you or anyone else. Last time I checked, this was a public forum.

Like I said, everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. It's interesting for me to read all of the diverse opinions expressed here. Whether or not I put much or any stock into any particular expressed opinion will depend on the amount of credibility (or lack thereof) that individual has established (in my mind). Everyone is free to believe what he or she chooses to.

Just expressing some of my thoughts and opinions......

All I can say is this thread helps me get through the day!!!

My wife is Ukrainian but I can definately to relate to the original post. I can add that before coming to the USA, my wife raided all the local pharmacies and brought more than $1,500 worth of medicines with her to cover every possible sickness or accident known (or unknown) to mankind that might occur once she came to the USA. It was almost like we were about to travel to the moon.

Bobalouie, you're a wise man and you read things very well. Truth is I came home after lunch yesterday with an old buddy and we turned up a few Mexican beers...and I was in this "interesting" frame of mind or stream of consciousness when I read KSodie's post, which had a familiar jokes and humor feel to it.

So I posted in this "interesting" state if you will, and maybe as a contrarian. I'm not retracting a word but i will own where my head was at. And maybe i framed things a bit stronger than I might have at another time...and there was an element of being the provocateur--a role some of take turns playing to keep things lively.

Eekee as you observed has a chip on her shoulder and her "equal rights amendment attitude" gets old for me sometimes...and is ironic as it serves to remind me why i had to travel so far to escape that militant attitude. Her presence on the forum is interesting as she is the only woman and is not applying for or waiting for a visa. There is, it seems, a Russian BF and this adds to the oddness of her presence as some of us have heard our women speak of Russian men in only negative ways or at least in a way that shows them to not be boy scouts.

Anyway, I think I am also an "orange" among many "apples" as I am already married to a Russian woman while most posters are in a K-1 fiancee situation. I have also widely traveled in the FSU with visits to Russia, Kyrgyzstan, and Latvia so I've lost some of that fantasyland energy that Russia is such a cool place and gee whiz I have this really unique situation. I've had a number of Russian female friends and romances over the last 6 years but I am not a "sex tourist." But i do think i see things somewhat differently than many other posters, many who seem to be much younger.

I may choose to stop posting as sometimes it seems the forum is a club for PC attitudes and generation X points of view. And the hard data and nitty gritty info i get comes from the CR-1 and NVC forums. This forum is more for arguing and debating and cracking jokes.

Take care my friend.

Your previous post: "actually it wasnt directed to you, dude.."

So, no, it isn't obvious.

Well incase it wasnt obvious, I will clarify it for you. Yes it was directed especially for you.

P.S. I've read your posts about your "own" view about most of posters here and their cultural differences with their fiances and wives. Alot of your post point to you figuring this whole russian women thing. But you didnt, and never will you can only guess. Try living there for 20 years and afterwards you can go ahead input, your "valueable" opinions. You give alot of input as if you an expert, yet it seems pretty clear for me that you are not, you on the outside the fence looking in.

Thanks for your input and taking the trouble to give your spin. And as a gentleman.

I said I don't like it when posters attack someone's wife or fiancee or the relationship that exists between them. When we go at it with each othe as posters...that's clean as far as I'm concerned within certain boundaries. Eeekee and I have issues and we probably cross lines...both of us...but it happens on this forum. Just consider the flack Satellite has taken and he still shows up to generate more controversy.

Eekee is welcome and certainly is not shy about posting...but when you step into the fray, you need to play the game and take the heat. If you deal yourself in, expect to be a called on what you say.

If a poster makes global statements like "all women are like that" then I'll call someone on it, especially if it's offered flippantly. I offer anecdotal information and observations and what i have heard in my travels over 6 years in the FSU and with relationships with a number of Russian women. Nothing more... If i make sweeping statements without adding IMO or IMJ than I should be called on it too. I am, as it turns out, a social scientist (an earlier career) if you want to talk credentials. I've visited over 20 countries and have many friends and associates from east and west europe if that counts for anything.

When you live in a one room flat, you know a lot about your parent's sex life. And mother's talk to their daughters openly and make it clear what the rules of the home are. I think Russians are not so shy and hung up about sex as we are. And there is little privacy.

I guess that hits most of your bullet statements.

Well, since you're our resident sociologist, I'll point out that your "valuable" global statement about "all women" makes you something of a hypocrite.

First off, thanks to all the serious posters with actual helpful thoughts and experiences to share (no, I'm not talking to you, SCII).

Ignorance and hypocracy on parade! I love how trolls like seanconneryii (I just call em like I see em) are so hypocritical in their writing. I have a particularly NASTY pet peeve - people who like to live by one set of rules, while expecting everyone else to live by another.

And I can, of course, back this up with concrete examples from this very thread:

"A very self-serving comment...and very sideways. But you are, after all, American. What can we expect?" and "I don't do personal attacks or counter attacks on someone's Russian girlfriend or wife" I have more examples of this later, too, or now even: "You sound like a feminist propagandist. "

"My hope is there is room for more then one truth or reality or mindset on the forum. I hope we can speak honestly and openly and argue and wrestle with issues as gentleman and ladies. If people can't take an opposing view of the world, don't post on a thread you can't handle." This is actually mostly right and demonstrates some clear thinking - up until the end. I began this thread, and so I feel obligated to 'defend' it. My original post was intended (clearly and obviously) to be personal, humorous observations. You responded by assigning me labels: "Your nice boy PC comments reveal you know very little bout the Russian culture which you claim to honor." "If we act as silly boys" "Or are you just another funny boy?" "they'll carry your testicles around like oranges in a grocery bag" Any of these read to anyone else like 'personal attacks? And yet, as copied above, seanconneryii "don't do personal attacks". Of course you don't - different rules apply to you! I should not post if I cannot handle it, and I shouldn't say anything bad about you or anyone you care about, but you are free to rant and rave and label and spout your Bubba mentality all you like? Which is it?

"If I know only one thing about Russian women, it's that they expect men to be the leader of the family...no compromising...that's an American creation to appease immature people...be the leader. Russian women don't want nice boys they want strong men. if you can't stand in that space, she'll not honor you." Contrast this statement by SCII with this one by him: "I don't know her or particularly care about her comments about me..someone she does not know." So, SCII understands what Russian women want and the rest of us are just poor ignorant fools doomed to failure - even though he doesn't care what a Russian woman actually thinks and believes, because 'she doesn't know him'. Well, you don't know me or my Natasha, either, but that didn't prevent you from making this comment: "And i suspect she's been heavily influenced by Kevin's "helpful" translations." Of course! I would naturally alter what SCII said to suit my own devious purposes, but such an accusation should never be directed against SCII. For the record, Natasha reads this forum OF HER OWN VOLITION. She found this thread ON HER OWN and did all the translations BY HERSELF. I wanted very much for her to post her original Russian words, since her English is still poor, but she INSISTED that I only post the English version. We worked TOGETHER on cleaning up the English translation, making several revisions until she was satisfied that HER intent was intact.

This is also a gem: "As far as my wife is concerned, I say to all posters...mind your own business. Expressing general thoughts, philosophies or experiences is open to discussion...my relationship with my wife is off limits. That's my boundary. End of story." Ooooooo, how so very final! Earlier in the same post, SCII said this: "I don't do personal attacks or counter attacks on someone's Russian girlfriend or wife (except maybe Satellite's alleged wife)". So, one set of rules for SCII's wife, a different set for someone else.

"I know the concept is hard for American women to grasp...that sex isn't necessarily done by taking a vote." So when IS sex done - whenever the man says, according to SCII of course: "If a man wants sex when is wife is cooking dinner, she stops cooking and heads to the bedroom." What if the woman says "no"? She has to perform anyway? How is this different from rape? Can a husband not rape his wife? If the sex is only good for the man, then the sex isn't good to start with.

"But I hear Russian women say they want to be rid of Russia. They want new life..a new way. " Natasha doesn't want this - she just wants to be loved and respected and cherished for who she IS as a woman. She only came to this country because it is where I live and make a living. If the visa didn't come through, I'd have moved to Russia (if allowed).

This whole post is PRICELESS: "you are showing a gender and generational disconnect (most Russians are not young campus intellects like yourself sitting around a pub and being cool and discussing the equal rights amendment) and your PC woman's advocate stance is better used in the USA where women like to assume the victim role even as they succeed and prosper and achieve.

Russian men are Russian men and Russian women serve them..that's the current system. If you don't like it, talk to Putin. i don't hear Russian women complaining as they're willing participants. The tradition is passed from mother to daughter and Russian moms are strong forces in Russia. Why not? There's 15 women to one man. I'd say the men can pick and choose and make up the rules...which they do with a strong hand. Russian men are hard and tough and dominant...deal with it.

You what to revise history and worship young Russian men...ok, have fun...but it's bull. In Russia it's is, indeed, a man's world and women accept it as correct because in their world men are the stronger sex...the leaders...the head of the family. They don't realize anything is wrong. It is normal. If you suggested to them that their husband raped them, they'd look at you like your crazy.

You've got a lot to learn. A lot. And you need to loose your American "glasses' and see things as Russians see them. It is a land of scarcity, not abundance. People do many things to survive. Don't look down your American nose. Respect their ways and leave your own female baggage at home. Life in STB is not everyday Russia.

You don't like the sounds of that...what can you do? I think you'd do better hanging out in the USA where you and your sisters have a better deal going on. But if you embrace Russia, don't spin it, flower it up, or shame men for doing what Russians do."

Whew, a lot to digest. I like how he rants about how things are in Russia. Of course, it's in direct conflict with his rants earlier about how Russian women need to GIVE UP Russia and do everything the superior American way, but hey - one set of rules for SCII, another for the rest of us: "Let us not import Russian ways but offer our women and children the gift of our culture and ways." Again, which is it, SCII? You say the man should ACT like a Russian man because that's what the Russian woman secretly wants - but you also say that they need to 'not import Russian ways'. Which is it? Make up your mind yet?

Chuckles nails it on the head with "I can't put your thoughts together. They tend to conflict.

Yes, I understand woman don't want a man who turns to jelly at every crisis. They don't want to initiate everything. I get it. Or rather, I got it. Are you taking it to the extreme to play devils advocate? It just seems like you are pontificating without purpose. I get the feeling you are just trying to get a rise out of people."

Here's a GEM from SCII: "You interjected yourself into this discussion uninvited...so take your medicine like an adult. " Um, point of order, Mr. SCII - earlier, you said "If people can't take an opposing view of the world, don't post on a thread you can't handle." So, she has to be quiet because YOU can't handle it? But you can spout whatever NONSENSE you want? For that matter, I began this thread so I suppose it's mine - and I pronounce your ENTIRE WORLDVIEW unwanted, and you can consider yourself 'uninvited' now.

Kudos to Don E too for pointing out some of the contradictions and logic flaws in SCIIs 'thoughts'. Excellent work!

LvivLovers: Natasha did that too! She didn't spend $1500, but probably about $250 on various 'flowers' and medicines.

Back to SCII: "Anyway, I think I am also an "orange" among many "apples" as I am already married to a Russian woman while most posters are in a K-1 fiancee situation. I have also widely traveled in the FSU with visits to Russia, Kyrgyzstan, and Latvia so I've lost some of that fantasyland energy that Russia is such a cool place and gee whiz I have this really unique situation." I've been to Russia for a little more than 2 months total now - not an impressive number, perhaps, but more than a tourist. I lived as a Russian with Russians, and I'm not a gen-xer at all, at 46. I have no direct 'point' her, just sharing. I'm curious about something though - the implication here is that SCII's K3 and already married status gives him clearer insight than us K1 people. Um, is your wife with you now, or is she still waiting for her visa? Your timeline only shows your marriage date, and I REALLY don't want to go wading through all of your posts elsewhere to try and figure it out. My Natasha is here with me now. Again, I'm just sharing. No point.

"If a poster makes global statements like "all women are like that" then I'll call someone on it, especially if it's offered flippantly." I don't believe I have made any general statements, only personal and specific ones - but you seemed hell-bent to call me on them anyway. I'll also quote you back to you again: "Oh...you're a sociologist I take it? Most women huh? Great, when do we get to read your research paper? Can't wait...Dude." So, if someone makes a 'global statement' you like to take them to task on it. Your reply implies that your thoughts and statements are the global truth. So, when can I read YOUR research paper?

And, finally, from SCII: "Well, since you're our resident sociologist, I'll point out that your "valuable" global statement about "all women" makes you something of a hypocrite." I'll let this statement stand on it's own "merits", where it can bask in the glow of everything else in this post.

Indeed it does, but arent we all a little bit of hypocrites?

I think it's hilarious how scii accuses me of not being able to handle the discussion, since I never gave any evidence to the contrary.

Sorry, but I think it's creepy and gross when a strange middle-aged man uses the words "honey" and "violate" in relation to me, humorous context or no. Remember scii, in today's American workplace you can get fired for sexual harassment.

I also like how he calls me "immature," when he's the man in his fifties who arguing with a 22-year-old college student who's just biding her time till the release of Grand Theft Auto IV.

Your wife's not here yet... Let's see how things go for you with your impressions of Russian women after she's been here a few months. Visiting someone is not the same as living with them day in and day out.


As far as Russian women being more open than American women in discussing their sex lives: you're not a girl. You don't hear what American girls say to each other--which is pretty much everything.

Kevin, this is the longest post I think I've ever seen and you've put so much effort into it cutting and pasting and taking your shots and all...nice work.

Good for you...you really showed me a thing or two. And you've got everyone clucking like chickens in approval. Must feel great to be on the "winning side."

Good luck with Natasha.

Without a doubt.

Very sorry you had to experience that!!

Your sexual comment about "little d**ks" (I think you said "having a little one") that was aimed at me had a "creepy" and 'gross" edge to it considering you're young enough to be my daughter..god forbid. Again, you make your attacks in your favorite style..sideways.

I said "don't violate me" as a gag when you said you didn't want to violate the TOS. If one of your buddies said that you'd post a laughing face. Maybe not my funniest moment but i was actually trying to kid around to cool things down. But you know this already...you may be the feminist from hell but you aren't stupid.

You call me a creepy and gross middle-aged man. I'll call you a creepy, gross, disrespectful young woman. How's that? Fair enough? Meet your equal rights criteria? Is my job safe from a harassment charge?

As others have pointed out, you need an attitude change.

More people have pointed out the need for a change in YOUR attitude.

Besides, I may be young enough to be your daughter (which is exactly why you should not say such sexually-tinged things to be), but I'm also not even the youngest one on the Russia forum. If you want only older people on a forum, go to a forum specifically for your age group. That comment wasn't addressed to you or about you, anyway. Ewwwwwwww. The fact that you construed it as such says more about you than about me.

If something had funny I would have posted a laughing face. Your first post generated one because i thought you were kidding. If you were trying to be funny, try harder and try harder in a not-gross way. Seriously, if you want respect, you need to act your age. Managing to not die is not enough to earn respect anymore. With modern medicine, living past fifty is no longer an achievement.

The whole world knows Russian women are WAY more open about...you know...the "s" word (wouldn't want to be accused of making creepy comments to a liberated American woman. Might loose my good reputation). Your reply proves my argument. Yes, US women only talk to other women. Russian women don't discuss it amongst themselves, they discuss it with their men. They have an open, honest dialogue...very refreshing. Nothing to be ashamed about. It is Russian life.

I'm reminded of a math riddle: If a chicken and a half can lay an egg and a half in a day and a half, then how long will it take a frog with a wooden leg to kick all of the seeds out of a dill pickle? Irrelevant, you say? Nonsensical, you say? Right at home in this thread now, I say!

Let's get back on track, everyone, and I vote we just ignore scii if he elects to post any more off-topic bilge water here. Anyone else have any amusing stories from life with their Russian significant other?

Natasha did explain to me 'foo', though I don't think I've heard either her or Vika use it around me to date. Vika has completed viewing every animated DVD I have and is now poking around looking for tapes. Come to think of it, though, I have a few more DVDs she probably hasn't stumbled over