I was pulling double shifts while you've been loathing. I must say, I'm surprised you let surrogates speak for you. You're starting to act like a presidential candidate. Let me guess...I'm one of those bitter small town losers clinging to my guns.

Oh yeah, it definitely must be low self esteem...




P.S. SCII is right about one thing is that girls from Moscow/ST.P are more open about their sexuality than lets say girls from midwest or any kind of Suburbia. City girls in States are very similar to Russian women in terms of sex etc....

This is unbelievable ! I agree that everyone is entitled to there own opinion and what works for one may not work for the other. But I must say I think Kevin's story is priceless and I am looking forward to similiar situations with Olya and her Stas. As for the American way, Is there really an American way ? Are we not the melting pot? My hope is that we take the best aspects of both of our cultures and combine the best and go forward. Thats not to say that is right for all but it is for me ! Sometimes this Russian men versus American Men and Russian women versus American women is a little overblown. I love my Olya not because she is Russian but because of who she is. Actually, I wished she was from here and I could have skipped this process Keep the good stories coming Kevin !

Heh...I don't think that word means what you think it means. Although it's true...I do tend to loathe even when I'm away.

Also...glad I entered the field of battle with shields up.

And while I don't know you well enough to tell if you're one of those bitter small town losers clinging to your guns (I always thought of you more as a big town loser clinging to your guns ), I'll add fuel to the fire: I'm disappointed that Obama didn't stand behind his words, although I do realize the reality of the situation is that the voting public are mostly morons who can't think past a 10 second sound bite, and that it's easier to be offended by something that amounts to nothing in the bigger scheme of things, than to think about real issues that matter to real Americans. One day I hope Americans will be less dumb, but it's not looking good. Anyway. Everything he said is absolutely true. When people lose hope, they become bitter, and many do turn to guns and religion. That's why violent crime goes up in depressed areas. History is replete with examples. But even guns I don't mind so much. Religion, on the other hand, is a zillion times more dangerous than guns. Nothing scares me more than some idiot that thinks Jesus wants him to go out and hurt people. Except maybe when that same idiot wants Jesus in in science books.

mox: dragging topics off since 2007.

My wife isn't much of a juice girl, but I see that the Russians in her hometwon love their juice and disdain my koka. Her dad drinks kvas, that really didn't trip my trigger. Glad you have been introduced to "foo", it is fun and we might see it added to Webster's in a few years. I ran some of the Mat stuff, my wife says too low class and respectable folks don't use such language. I remind her of some of the English words she has used not the same. OK for her to do the bad but me oh no. Well I have already spilled the beans where my nads are, and happy for that, now I don't have to worry where to tuck em, torsion, or getting kicked where it will hurt. Now I can skip along like a little wood fairy and not be bothered when someone ask me if I am "Blue", nope just the eunuch of the house along with the male cats. Seems misery loves company. When I advised my wife of the deviations from this thread, well I guess you can probably figure out where she landed. Sorry there rustic Scotsman from yankeeland. She chastised me for living vicariously on VJ, i advised she needed to see that man's magazine that I just bought with the Russian hotties in it. When I told her it was the first time I bought one in the last 35 years, she got a kick out of my porna deprived state. And no we don't whistle in the house "throwing away money" don't drive down a road when a black cat crosses, she knocks on my head (something wooden) when recounting a good event, can't snap my fingers to get the cat's attention, too much like ordering a servant around. I tell her that us nutless ones have to have some way to communicate, and I don't meow (too high pitched now that I have joined the cats) or purr very well, and the cats seem to respond to the finger snap. Too bad, pitch your meows to their level and try to be more slothful like them, you are too active. To this I say, Honey punching buttons on the remote and popping a top ain't all that active. Loves to drive, didn't drive in Russia at all, yet had a driver's license. Tells lots of jokes on New Russians" and the road police. Every day is a new adventure. So many more in my aged and decrepit state I can't remember. Now what was this thread about? Oh yeah, love respect and admiration for our fellow man or woman. I hope I don't get in trouble with my wife for not writing "Fellow woman" first.

I've had the experience where my cola is pronounced disgusting, and yet when i go to drink it, it's all gone.

Kevin,

Work is keeping me busy when I'm not at home completing the "honey-do" list. Not much time to post these days. Guess I must have volunteered to give my jewels away I have not had any manhood issues nor has Tanya expressed any concern in that area. I must be doing something right. Good thing I came to this thread so I could learn how to be a real manly man, American style.

Bought Tanya and Victor bicycles. Tanya taught herself how to ride while I was at work. I was more than a little impressed. She can now get around our sleepy little town on her own until I get the drivers permits. She thanked me last night for trying to be a good Father to Victor. She said I am a good man in spite of the fact that I have no balls.

Tanya has been able to make several wonderful dishes and I have had a ton of new "experiences" but can't remember one of them at this very moment. I should probably buy stock in Morton salt and Post-Its!

Your great thread of amusing stories has unfortunately brought out the best and worst of VJ. This is sad because as I read through the thread, the humor is countered by ignorance and hostility and that just takes a lot of the fun out of it. Reminds me of the "believe in what I believe in or you will go to hell" routine so prevalent here in the South.

I will try to keep notes on the funny things that happen on a daily basis. Many are good enough to share though I might just PM them to avoid a good thread being trashed by morons.

I will leave you with a story about Tanya v. Washer & Dryer:

I bought Tanya an LG washer/dryer set (the red pair) and have them stacked in the laundry room. I showed her how to operate them and thought she had it down pat. Once you set the mode (heavy, med. or light, hot or cold etc.) you press the power button then the start button and walk away. Both units are the same. She did a load of clothes then put them in the dryer. I was doing some Krewe business on the computer when I heard that flood of Russian slang I am always glad is not directed at me. She came and dragged me into the laundry room and said that the dryer was bad (she actually used the “foo” word). I reached up and hit the power button then the start button and miracles of miracles, it started going round and round. Deer in headlights does not quite describe the look on her face but it comes close. Then another round of Russian cussing as I went back to work. Re-reading this I see that it just doesn’t capture the humor of the moment but I am sure you have several similar stories.

Hang in there and remember to keep your kids around or else you become the foreigner in the house!!!

Cheers,
Bill

i this thread!

loved the story about the dryer, navarre. i've had some similar instances with nessa

I show my angel the town every weekend, but between two jobs (during the school year, anyway) there isn't a lot of time during the week. My (paying) job is flexible enough that Natasha can sit with me all day if she wants, and she does, as she is now as I write this. Believe it or not, I only wish the best for you too. We are all on a very difficult road, and a road less traveled (though becoming more foot-worn as the world shrinks), and can benefit from all the encouragement and positive energy we can get. I'm not a big believer in negativism, and when you made your negatively charged comments (as I interpreted them) I responded. I'm perfectly able, and willing, to be reasonable.

Heya Chris, very well stated. If I could have skipped my earlier marriage as well as Natasha skipping hers, and we could have met 10 years ago, life would have been ideal a long time ago! And after your Olya is with you, be sure to share your stories too!

I like the way your train runs, or derails, or whatever it is. I'll have to look up some more of your posts! Good stuff.

Hey Bill! I heard about the bicycles, but was informed that YOU don't have one! What's up with that! You guys are all going to ride together, yes? I pulled out my oldest daughter's old bike and did a minimal amount of maintenance on it for Vika last weekend, and she had a lot of fun tooling up and down the street. Natasha gave it a short whirl too, and soon I'll need to head to the store for another bike for her (plus some parts for Vika's).

LOVE the W&D story! Believe me, you don't need to capture it perfectly it words for me to feel it. We all go through stuff like that! I have showed Natasha how to operate our W&D, but she hasn't gotten up the courage to try it on her own yet. That, or maybe it's because the laundry room still has all my junk in it from the house remodel, and she definitely does NOT like to go in there!

Natasha and I are so happy for you and Tanya, and are looking forward to our first outing together (some day)! Good luck with Victor, I know it's a challenge. I think in some ways it it easier when they are older, and in many ways more difficult.

I would go a step further and say that I believe the Russian women/men vs. American women/men is way overblown. I think that women are women no matter where in the world they were born and raised. That being said, each woman is a unique individual with her own personality and her own unique experiences and beliefs. I supppose it's okay to make some generalizations as long as you understand they are just that......generalizations. They may or may not apply or be true in your situation. I believe that the problems you may encounter with a Russian wife are the same problems you might have with an American wife or a woman from any other country in the world. I believe that the keys to a good and successful relationship/marriage are the same no matter what cultures the man and woman come from, and at the same time I believe that each relationship is unique and that what works in one doesn't necessarily work in another.

Just my opinion......

most sensible and true statement on this thread yet.

That's what I get for being a railroad regulator. Very perceptive. We have been married for 4 years (in July) and my wife insisted we get married in a Russian orthodox church, which fortunately we have her in our "village" as my wife calls it. Transition is very difficult, and you really don't appreciate it until you experience the same. Had a buddy bring over a Russian fiancee and his view of entertainment for her and her daughter was showing them the mechanized way trash is picked up. Needless to say that relationship didn't work out and they did not get married, he ended up marrying a girl from South America. This weekend we are going to see a Russian pianist and his daughter perform and taking another couple with us, the fellows wife is from my wife's hometown, and we are getting all geared up to present our Pascha basket at church next week to be blessed by the priest. So if you adopt various cultural aspects of your wife's former country, it makes the transition much easier and she appreciates the efforts you make on her behalf. In the mean time, they integrate themselves into American culture and try to excel at everything they do, to show how Russians really are. perhaps this is just my wife, but I think many Russian women here do the same, although I could be wrong, just my two cents on what I have observed in the Russian community here.

I hear a statement that sounds "comfortable" for us at this moment that embraces conciliation. We're all alike overall, but unique as individuals. And of course the unique individual part is true. But the part about American women and Russian women being more alike than different is incorrect IMO. If this were true...why are American men investing so much time, money and aggravation with applying for visas and waiting alone for months and even longer if there is no discernible difference? Are we nuts? If a woman is a woman in all pats of the world, why not just stay home and date and marry at home?

The issue we as men have to accept (unless we're some of the few who just randomly met a Russian women) is that we intentionally decided to look elsewhere for a wife for clear and profound reasons beyond randomness. We have to own that American women were not what we wanted for whatever the reasons.

Maybe we like the Russian accent. Maybe we like the way Russian women carry themselves. Maybe we like the Slavic look of Russian women. Maybe we discern a different view on life. Maybe we like that Russian women seem to like older men.

Your opinion needs some clarification and elaboration to help we to see there is little no difference between a Russian woman and an American woman.

I think the transition from Russian life to American life has a lot to do with several things.

1. Couples going with the K-1 fiancee visa (the majority I think) may struggle more at first because the commitment part really only starts in the USA. In Russia, it's more a vacation or living together as unmarried individuals. If the marriage/commitment starts in Russia and the couple has some time in Russia to adjust to being married, I think the ultimate switch over to the USA is less dramatic.

2. I think the location in the USA where the couple lives makes a big difference. If they live in a large active city like Boston, NYC, DC, LA, etc, the woman may find American life exciting and colorful and seductive. But if the couple lives in a smaller city or rural town, the woman may become bored or homesick for Russia.

3. The husband's availability. If a man works long hours and weekends or overtime, and must leave his wife alone for long periods, i think this will create problems for her like boredom, anxiety or homesickness.

Also baffled by how quickly this thread sprouted six extra pages in my absence. But, I see it's mostly just bickering between an old(er) man and a young(er) girl on traditionally-held beliefs of gender roles in a family, Russian and/or American. That's not going to change because the two of them are from entirely different times. And, in all reality, they're probably both right because of the spouse they're seeking. If the old man seeks an old woman, their beliefs will be more aligned. Same goes for a young couple. Nationality matters not in this case. Our societies were similiar enough that it's not a question of where they're from, only their age.

I will say that here, in my house, we have a lot of problems not from our gender roles, but from the fact that I keep trying to retain my balls while she keeps trying to put them in one of her purses. (Why do women have so many purses? A man has one wallet and he keeps it till it literally falls apart. It's a pride matter how long practical things will last. "I've had this wallet for 15 years. Even though it has duct tape on it, it still works. I'll be damned if I'm gonna spend $9 on a new one. This one's just fine. As far as I'm concerned, it'll last another 15 years.") From what I've witnessed, it's a lot easier on a marriage if you just surrender your balls at the alter or shortly thereafter. I, being a young guy, still can't do that. Probably in a few years though I'll have to just give up and hand them over. Until then, they're mine and we're still going to have problems.

As for the technology of things here being difficult to operate for some, I've observed that it's not due to operator error, it's due to the operator fighting the fact that there's an established way to do things and if they're not done in that order then the technology won't work. "I want do how I want. I not will be do this s#!TTy way how people say we must do. I will be do how I want." And then, when it doesn't work, and after another round of refresher training, it still doesn't work, they will finally give in and do how those s#!tty people wrote in the instruction manual.

Oh! I almost forgot...... small victory on the home front in the past couple of weeks. Diet Pepsi (and Diet Cherry Big K, the store brand generic cola with a little cherry twist) have been consumed regularly here and have actually been requested! "Please buy for me this diet pepsi." It starts with diet and then works up to the hard stuff...... Who knows, maybe some day we'll be able to throw away the chainik. For those not able to get 'em to drink that FOOO COLA, start off with something twisted with cherry or vanilla or another flavor. Then, slowly introduce the harder stuff. Why do I feel like a crack dealer right now?

OK...here's my funny story about hot versus cold drinks for Russians.

When my wife talks to me on the phone, I stopped having a coke or ice tea while we talk to avoid getting a lecture on how bad it is for me to drink something with ice in it. If she hears the jiggle of ice in my glass, I'm really in for it. At least a 5 minute scolding that cold drinks will harm me and why will I not listen to her sound Russian advice.

I guess I'll have to disconnect my automatic ice maker when she arrives in the USA.

When Natasha was in Russia and we would talk on webcam and voice chat, I would get the same lecture as you, SCII, if I was drinking a pop. But, oddly enough, now that she's here she has dropped this particular objection, though she of course doesn't follow this practice herself. I only occasionally get the fact mentioned that it's not good for me, and even then only if I've already got a sniffle.

Luckily, my ice-maker doesn't work. :-)

mine doesn't either. it just causes leaks

i am glad that no one has tried to change my cold-beverage drinking ways. so much tastier and refreshing.

I went on a picnic with my fiancee and a few of her friends one time when I was in Sochi. We bought a crap load of beer, and they were content to let it sit on the table in the warm sun and drink it like that. No ice, no shade, no cooler, nothing. I was like, nope, not gonna work for me, and took the beer and sank it in the river. It wasnt Ice cold, but at least it wasnt 90 degrees either. At first they looked at me like I am "crazy American" and after they tried the first beer from the river, I got the "maybe he's not so crazy after all" look.

Edited for spelling (as usual)

Using the term "morons" reveals your own intolerance and negativity...and you slipped it in kind of sideways...not exactly man to man.

The Russian forum is not necessarily a hug feast forum...it sometimes looks at controversial and contentious issues. In fact, it often does. Those who dare to speak differently (like me) will suffer the slings and arrows for their honesty and open sharing. So far I'm "creepy" and "idiot" and now "a moron." Sounds like just a different style of negativity and intolerance to me. Guess it was important for you to get your dig in too. OK...I heard you.

I will own one thing here...I probably should not have stepped on Kevin's thread. I should have started my own thread...then people could join or or pass as they wished.

Anyway Navarreman...just needed to clear with you about "morons." One type of negativity is no better than another.

I hope you're new life with your Russian lady goes well.

Probably the closest you will come to making an apology. This is the exact reason so many people got up in arms about what you posted. Kevin is one heck of a nice man and Kirk, Jeff and Slim and several others are as well and have no problem with pointing out the error of your ways when you trash a thread like you did this one.

The moron comment was not sideways. It was a clean, clear shot. Sure we can turn this forum into a place for people to come and trash and flame everyone but many here feel that it is actually about the VJ experience and what we can do to help others and ourselves. Kevin's OP about humorous stories is an excellent example of what many of us can expect to go through during our journey. And it does not only pertain to Russian women. There are those here that find these same stories in Canadians and Thai's. To each their own.

Perhaps it was just me but I felt that your post was worded such to give the impression that unless we treated women as you feel is necessary then we are just not men. That is loading the gun and pulling the trigger. You should not be surprised by the reaction you received from us.

I need to go right now and invite clear and convincing discussion at a later time.

Some Russians actually like warm beer, not like hot. but lukewarm.

I see you're a name dropper. Well. I haven't heard from the men you mentioned except from Slim who agreed with me or sustained some of my own points. Didn't hear one derogatory comment from him...and not hearing anyone attack him for his views. Mox and I can dance the dance of disagreement without acting like school boys (at least usually ). Jeffrey is a gentleman's gentleman and has always spoken with me respectfully even if we might not agree on an issue. One thing I know about him...he doesn't do sideways or name calling.

Very few posters chose to use school yard name calling that was aimed directly at me. I don't mean things like 'wise guy' or "hot shot" but "creepy" "idiot' and your own "moron." Not a sophisticated way to make points or lodge mature complaints or rebuttals. And there's always the choice to ignore a poster. You can even block my posts. No sweat.

As you sit in judgment of my comments, you might want to look at your own civility when you drop the word "moron" into the conversation...and when you slip it in on the low low..and when you're not even part of the conversation in the first place. You chose to engage..that was your choice. Now you'll have to own your words straight up.

If I were you, I'd focus on my woman and enjoy the precious moments. When my wife comes to me the last thing I'll be doing is posting on on this forum.

I'm a ice drinking freak...so I'm hoping she'll "Americanize" on this one. Otherwise the summer's are going to be VERY long.

You can tell Natasha maybe she's not so far off about me being crazy! These Russian women are psychic, I swear! My wife knows stuff about me and I don't know where she gets it...but she's often right on the money.

Loathing. Wow...quite a Freudian slip, eh? I see you got I meant loafing.
I'm numbing out on the politics thing. The whole process just takes to long. Not thrilled with any of them deep down in my heart. McCain's a brother Nam vet and I feel connected to him for that, but he's getting old. I actually liked a lot of what Ron Paul had to say but he always looked bad during the debates. Like Obama, Paul got the young folks excited.

Not that i would have voted for McCain anyway (though I am not thrilled with either Hillary or Obama), but to me it seems like he controls his temper only slightly better than Zhirinovsky does. That kind of lack of control is not something I personally want to see in a head of state.

Obama gets the young folks excited, but it all seems like empty rhetoric to me. I want to see real plans, not an inspiring speech. I think it's good that we're seeing record voter registration and turnout though.

My feelings on the whole election is that this will be the third presidential election where none of the candidates are electable in my opinion. It is a very sad state of affairs within American politics when we cant even find a single worthwhile standout candidate in either party.

And the fact that Paul got no press time really infuriates me. All candidates should be afforded the same privledges. In this election we will be making the choice for president from the candidtates that BIG MEDIA wants us to choose from. Paul actually did well in a few states in the primaries but it often went unreported. I dont think Paul would have been a winner, but he would have done much better if he was treated equally. Huckabee was another that was often overlooked by the media.

re: Huckabee, I recall him getting quite a bit of media attention. He was on the cover of several magazines, after all.

I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else of anything. I'm simply offering my opinion.

I won't pretend to speak for anyone else, but I will offer an answer to some of your questions in regard to my personal experience. I've been through the immigration process before with my ex-wife (from Russia). I really didn't want to go through all of that again, and I was sure I could find a woman that I might marry closer to home this time around. But, after some time, I began to wonder if I could. And I decided that I should be open to the possibility of finding my true love outside the borders of the U.S. By no means was I focusing on Russian women, but it so happened that Tania is from Russia.

While there are certainly plenty of extraordinary women in the U.S., I was having a difficult time finding any of them my age who were "available" to me. I do believe that there may be more extraordinary and available women in Russia than in the U.S. Simple demographics would support that:

United States
at birth: 1.05 males/female
under 15 years: 1.05 males/female
15–64 years: 1 male/female
65 years and over: 0.72 male/female
total population: 0.97 male/female

Russian Federation
at birth: 1.06 male(s)/female
under 15 years: 1.05 male(s)/female
15-64 years: 0.94 male(s)/female
65 years and over: 0.46 male(s)/female
total population: 0.86 male(s)/female

When it comes to Russians my age, there are simply far fewer men than women. Alcoholism is a rather significant factor in the longevity of Russian men, and it was also a factor in Tania's divorce. She didn't think it was very likely that she could find an available Russian man her age or older who didn't have a problem with alcohol, and she really didn't want to take another chance on another Russian man. You might say that she was disillusioned with the Russian male. I suspect that she is not the only Russian woman who feels that way.

Just a few thoughts for you to consider.....or not.....

I understand what you are saying and agree. Your situation is similar to mine. There are a lot more women I'd be interested in and available in Russia but very few in the US. I also find that older US women (say 45-55) often want to date younger men (like 35-40). Not sure why unless it's ego or the fear older men can't perform...which is probably an real issue.

There is a lot more factors to choosing a mate overseas versus here in the US, but I agree with your comments.

Probably because their first husband dumped them for someone twenty years younger and they could use the self-esteem boost.

I pretty much skimmed through the whole thread and found that my wife has a lot of similar traits that others described.

My wife often uses the "foo" word to show her dislike of something. I didn't realize it was a Russian idiom. I never heard my stepdaughter use it though. I have heard many Belarusian women use the term "oi, oi, oi" while shaking their head to convey their disapproval of something. Jews are famous for using the same idiom, but the Belarusian women I know that use it aren't Jewish. Large portions of Belarus were a part of the old Tsarist era Pale of Settlement where Jews were required to live, so that may explain that regionalism. My wife was born and raised in Russia, so that probablty explains why she uses "foo" instead of "oi, oi, oi".

My wife also distains colas, but her daughter loves them. Neither of them likes kvas, but I have a taste for it. My wife and many of the Russian / Belarusian women I know love their tea. My wife can't live without it and drinks it with milk or cream. She also likes her juice and it is drunk at room temperature. It sits on the counter unrefridgerated.

We are fortunate to live in an area of Houston close to our house that has two Russian stores that stock foods, medicines, books, movies, etc. from Eastern Europe and many of the former Soviet republics. I lived there even before I met my wife, so it has turned out to be a plus. She has discovered American brands that are acceptable to her, but has the Russian stores to fall back on for certain things. Most notably unrefined sunflower oil, halva, various sweets, church wine (Kagor), and buckwheat (gretchka) comes to mind.

Russians / Belarusians tend to prefer pork over beef. My wife seldom cooks beef. Pork, chicken, and fish is prefered in that order. I'm not a huge fan of pork, but have learned to live with it.

My wife also does not like the American health care system (insurance), doctors, dentists, or medicines. I had a real fun time trying to convince her that our American thyroxine was the same as the thyroxine she got in Belarus. While our system has a lot not to like, I think most of the distain comes from having to pay and pay and pay. My wife is also a huge believer in natural cures and old wives cures from the village. Some of it is OK for minor ailments, but it can also be detrimental if someone refuses competent medical care for serious medical conditions. We often butt heads when she nags me about my decision to go to "my" American doctors rather than letting her cure me.

My wife is also superstitious, but so are some Americans. My wife is probably one of the most superstitious people I ever met though. Most of the time I play along with it to indulge her, but I only go so far with it. There is a limit.

I could probably write a book on my many observations, but I'll stop here for now. One observation that I would like to make is that people are not entirely the same even when they come from the same country. People might have similar beliefs, attitudes, etc. they aquire from their upbringing and culture, but they are still individuals and are different in their own way. Russians are not monolithic. They are not all exactly the same.

i hear russians say "oi" too, usually in connection with "господи."

Both of these were used everyday when I was in Kazan'. I gravitated towards, "Ой!", while Alla used, "Господи!" more frequently, They are both used to convey a feeling of shock, surprise, or pain. Alla and I both used, "Фу!" equally whenever we did not like something strongly.