They pretty much harressed my Fiance to sign a document that states that we are married, which we are not yet.

When she arrieved they took the check and medical reports and made her wait for her turn. She was interviewed my Indian officer and wanted to know if the picture I submitted with I-129F had 'taali' (marriage knot), my fiance denied it. Then they did the Good Cop-Bad Cop thing, good being the indian office, bad being the American officer, Didnt let her explain or talk (FOX news tactics, cut the mic when you speak), but gave her options either to accept or your visa will be denied and she can't enter US for rest of her life, which is plane BS. She was told to apply for K3 by the indian officer.

My fiance panicked and gave it in writing that we were married on my second visit to India and was given 221(g).

The only regrett is that, I should have been with her in the interview.

Now my only option is to file for K3 visa, which I'm in the process of doing it.

I'm leaving US in end of May for couple months to be with her, would defintely visit Chennai consulate and ask for a explanation and may be launch a complaint at Human Rights Commission.

Lesson learned, that American Citizens are Second Class citizens to people who come here on H1b (Corprate Sponsered work visa), where they get dependent visa in 15 days, where as we have to wait for 6-9 months and get denied for something that is so stupid as this case.

Its a waste of my time, I cann't get this years back...............what a waste!!!!!!!

Your suggestions are welcome..............

I would talk to a lawyer and in the end if you (are married) do the cr1

Are you married, or not? If you are not married, your fiancee would have no cause to deny anything. If you are married, then a fiancee visa is not the visa for you. On the other hand, if you had some sort of ceremonial "engagement" party(not legally binding, just cultural) and submitted photos of that...the problem could stem from there. Best advice here on VJ is that if you have any kind of ceremony....do not include photos of it in your petition, and do not take those photos to the interview. It raises more questions that necessary and can be a cause for concern and trigger such a situation as yours.

Just FYI, before you proceed. Find out what is the final disposition of your petition and resulting visa application. I know they made your fiancee sign a paper admitting your married....but where is your petition? You cannot and should not file a new petition of any kind until your previous one is deemed DENIED by the Service Center, WITHDRAWN by the petitioner or it EXPIRES.

-P

We are not married.

Here is the 221(g)

Click to view attachment

if you are not married then speak up thru your congressman or a lawyer etc and do it before this gets returned. It says you REQUESTED it to be withdrawn, whatever the case do it quickly and try to get it kept there, if your not married your not married so speak up to them quickly

I hope you get this resolved soon.

Why would your fiancee panic, if everything was legit? She is an unmarried woman, applying for a fiancee visa to come to the US and marry you, period. Why would she write and sign anything that stated that you married when you were not? This can be a messy issue, because if you are NOT married in any legal sense, she can and has misrepresented herself by signing a document that states you are married.

According to the 221g letter you just posted, your fiancee was DENIED the visa and the petition is being sent back to USCIS w/ a recommendation for REVOCATION.
As you have stated that you're not married, the I-129F is the only visa option for you....so it is in your best interest to make sure that they do not send the petition back to the US. Follow brnd's advice....get your congressman/senator involved. Try to prevent the petition



Also, it would be best if you stop blaming the consulate, and concentrate on how to fix the problem. It sounds like your fiancee was unprepared for the interview, plain and simple. It is the consulate's job to ascertain every applicants eligibility for the visa they've applied for and also the consulate's job to verify that everything stated by the petitioner and visa applicant is true. They are given somewhat of a latitute as far as how they conduct their 'investigation' before they make a visa decision.


It is not a waste...since this is the visa option that best fits your needs. Look at this as a setback or roadblock to overcome. But first you must understand what it is that was misinterpreted. Why would the consulate think you're married if you're not....and why on earth would your fiancee actually sign something to that effect? Once you know where the mistunderstanding occured....contact the consulate via phone or e-mail if possible and explain to them the situation. Perhaps you can get a chance to better explain w/ a second interview meaybe. I would also contact your sendator/congressman and have them inquire on your behalf.
-P

Paula&Minya no offense, you know USA/Hungry, you dont know things that go in third world countries..............

Dont blame you but you won't understand.

I asked for suggestions, specailly from people who were concerned about me and please don't be judgemental and patronize me, take it easy.

I had to vent, if you have a problem with that then you are the wrong guy to read this post, dont even reply to this post, its for people who care about each other, even if they dont know the situation.

Do not spend time complaining with this you have to act fast im not from your embassy either but i know how returns work. For some reason it sounds like your requested it to end....if they say your maried have them show where it was recorded as a marriage...get the senator involved, have your friends and family who know or attended the engagement party to write letters for you saying this....and u need to do it today...if it gets sent back its pretty well either held for months before they even look at it or it expired but try to get it held there. Many are getting second interviews lately..

None taken, but also please give me some credit. My fiancee was issued a 221g, in Hungary....so I know a little bit about it...and I know a little about the interview tactics used. What you wrote rang a bell, except that my fiancee stood his ground when they tried to badger him. I made sure of grilling him absolutely....so that he would not get nervous or panicy or anything. I am trying to assist you w/ suggestions, as best I can, because I am concerned about you.
I understand your need to vent...but blaming the consulate will not get you anywhere. You need to act fast so that your petition is held there at the consulate and not returned to the states.
If it is returned...the petition will just linger w/ no action until it expires....and you cannot file a new petition until you're notified that the old one is 'closed out' so you'll be stuck in limbo-land. Plus, since you say you're not married...a new fiacee visa petition is the only option you have. (Unless you return to your home country, get married legally and start the spousal immigration game). Either way, if you get to the interview stage, the results of your first visa interview will be looked at, and the second interview will also be scrutinized on that basis.
Please do not think I'm being harsh...I'm jus trying to help you understand, that this is not a small snafu, but it is entirely fixable once you act fast.

-P

Kshatriya,

I agree with brnidokiegirl, you have to act fast if you want to try to turn this around. Please see the link provided to Sauron's story, in your other thread. Please read his story carefully. Then, I don't know if this will help you, but this is the way to find the USCIS appeal I referred him to:

Go to:

http://www.uscis.gov/uscis-ext-templating/...errFrameset.jsp

choose Administrative Decisions after August 1, 2000

choose D6 Fiancyes and Fiancys of US Citizen (K-1)

choose 2003

choose apr2203_01d6101.pdf

The critical paragraph (imho) is near the end:

It is concluded that, if the petitioner's marriage is not recognized for immigration purposes in order to have an immigrant visa petition approved, then the petitioner cannot be considered "married" for the purpose of denying a fiance(e) visa petition.

I wish you luck.

Maya


And may I say, it sounds like USC K1 petitioners might consider warning their fiance(e) about the possibility of this happening during their interview, and telling their Indian fiance(e)s not to sign something that says you're married if you are, or believe you are, in fact, not married! Or they could just say something to this effect: "My understanding to the best of my knowledge is that I am not married under Indian law." It seems they are being bullied into guessing at their marriage status in the eyes of the law when they don't know what the law is! Just my $.02

This stuff makes me so angry!

i am sorry Kshatriya for what happened to you and ur fiancee. But i really hope u will follow ur case to your senator/congressman. i would not let it happen that they made ur fiancee confess that u were married in spite the fact u were not legally married. she was intimidated and given no choice, i can see that. pls fight for that. But if filing k3 seems to be ur best option, then go for it.
good luck to you!

Maya62: that link is not working. Could you repost?

Kshatriya: I am sorry to hear your story. Please speak to a lawer immediately. St Louis has few good lawer.

kshatriya,

This is the oldest trick in the book with Indian K1 applicants. You sound as if you nor your fiancee were prepared for this. That was mistake #1.

Due to the complexities of Hindu marriage law in India, you do not need to register a Hindu ceremony to be legally married. You only need to complete the rituals as described in the Hindu Marriage Act.

The common fraud many Indian K1 applicants attempt to do is have a religious ceremony and not register it. They are married in the eyes of their families (and by law) but as no marriage certificate exists, they apply as if they're engaged and not married.

Out of curiosity, did you or did you not get married by Hindu rites? Did you do the pheras? etc.

I didnt get married in any tradition, not pheras or mangal sutra or taali, what ever they call it in diff parts of India.

I just got a indian traditional engagement, thats it.

The officer clearly stated to my fiance that I should apply for K3 and prob that what I'm going to do. I want to fight but not this time, gotta pick my battles. Will go there get married, register it and apply for K3 or DCF (if I can find a job)

This process has already tolled on me, not ready for another long wait of uncertainity (revoking of K1 or Contacting Congressman etc.)

If you want to follow my advice for once it will be, be with your fiance @ the interview, specially if its in INDIA.



Paula&Minya, my apologies that I snapped, hope you understand........

so now the first will be returned, you need to get some kind of closure on it, you go marry and they will see the reason for the denial on the first was marriage now married, i think best to clear up the first, if your not married your not married. Your time will start all over for the weight and you are so close in this one once you get it worked out...

If you are not married in any sense of the word, then the consulate was wrong in their decision, wrong in forcing your fiancee to sign a document stating that you were married. That needs to be pointed out to the consulate, and a senator/congressman may be the best in paving the way for you to prove this to consulate. What transpired at the interview is now is part of the 'public record' so to speak....and may come back and hurt you later if it is not resolved.

You cannot apply for another petition until this petition has been dealt with. The K-3 (or IR/CR immigrant visa) will still require you to file a petition here in the US with USCIS, so you're still in for a wait, but you cannot file it until you're sure that your previous petition has been expired or 'closed'. Otherwise the two petitions will just be merged and your second petition will be denied because the first one is considered active.
I'm not sure about DCF and what the requirements for that are, perhaps someone who has done DCF through India will be able to advise you...but you can also look at the Direct Consular Filing (DCF) General Discussion forum here on VJ for more information.

Good luck,
-P

HI Kshatriya,

We are so sorry about the 221 G. Stay Strong!!

I will pray that you can receive sound advice/help & resolve this soon.

PGM

for a k-3 or cr-1 you have to have marriage registration even hindu marriage. I had hindu marriage and went through a lot of hoops to have it registered. I would follow the others advice and fight this wrong that they are doing, dont change what is the reality just to prove them right. if you file for k-3 or cr-1 now you will be admitting you are married.

Hi Kshatriya...

After reading all these posts, I really really want to encourage you to follow that advice and fight this. I know everything is overwhelming right now, and you just want to be with your fiancee - but I am worried that you might be doing things that will hinder that! Does anyone know how fast the cases are sent back to the US? It is already over a week...

At the very least, officially contact your congressional reps. and the consulate regarding your case and what has transpired, start collecting affidavits from family members on both sides stating that the ceremony was NOT a marriage, etc. so that if it is too late to save this petition, you don't have so many problems with the next.

Below is the link to Missouri government officials with their contact details, let them know what has happened to you guys today!!!


http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/cgi-...ge&state=mo

If you end up having to go the DCF route, let me know, you know I will give you any help I can on that process! What is your field of work? I may have some networking contacts for jobs in B-lore as well. I know you are at your wits end about this, and I would be angry beyond belief too, but don't do anything at this point that will just delay your being with your loved one!

C

I'm so sorry kshatriya, what a nightmare this all is for both of you.

I'm so steaming angry right now, I don't understand how those people at the Consulate can be so !!@%&!! mean and heartless.

Thoughts and prayers for either fighting it or joining your loved one in India to do DCF there. Good luck, we are all rooting for you!

OK guys, this is the plan. I'm leaving USA to India somewhere in mid of May...........b4 that

1) I'll contact Missouri Senator and a Immigration Lawyer this week.

2) I'll email Chennai Consulate to STOP sending the Petition to NVC and would request to give me another chance to explain/talk to an Chennai Immigration Officer in mid of May (or) may be my lawyer will do that with some legal stuff...

3) Apply for PIO (Person of Indian Origin) card this week, will get it by beg of May.

If these above doesn't seem to work by end of May or Beg of June.

4) Will get married in India and register in June and start DCF in July/Aug.

5) Will find a Job in BLR or HYD on my PIO card, I'm a Software Developer.

Thanks!!! for your suggestions

I don't know why the link won't work.

Here's how to get there:

go to USCIS.gov
at the top, choose "About USCIS"
on the left, choose "Electronic Reading Room"
in the middle of the page, choose "Administrative Decisions"
in the middle of the page, choose "D6"
then choose the year I referred to in my earlier post
then choose the date I referred to in my earlier post

These are all past decisions made in an appeal process in cases where the original petition was denied and the applicant appealed that decision. I think they're interesting and go quickly once you figure out where in the boilerplate to find the crux of the issue and what the decision was, and why. I read a couple of years worth of them while I was creating our petition and then waiting for the NOA2. It definitely gives the sense that, if you can't prove you met, or come up with an utterly water-tight reason why you can't meet your fiance(e) in the two years prior to filing, you are wasting your time filing a petition.

Maya

thats a good find, hope nobody needs it, but you never know, with the incompetency at USCIS and US Consulates.

click here if dont get to the link with the above instructions
http://www.uscis.gov/err/D6/Decisions_Issu...003_01D6101.pdf

kshatriya,

Thanks for sharing your story. It is very upsetting to hear about your case. I have seen so many people here worry about their K1 approval because they didn't have engagement ceremony. You had it and they interpreted it as a wedding. Hope you get your approval through appeal...can't imagine you waiting more.

I am trying to figure out why they thought it was a wedding. Did you submit the engagement pictures with your I129F petition? Did the pictures have some religious ceremony with the priest? Or the types of questions they asked in the interview which led them to believe that. Any details you can provide.

Some people have suggested to submit affidavits from family members, saying that you were engaged. Did you submit these affidavits?

After reading your story and another one, it seems like getting K1 approval is harder with engagement ceremony.

Best wishes and I hope you get your approval soon.

Kshatriya, I don't have any advice. Just want to tell you that all of us on VJ are with you and Pray for everything to work out for you.. Just don't let them get away with it

I am sorry to hear about your case, IT's madness what your fiancee went through at the consulate.

The advice we can get from this case, was there any pictures that had the resemblance of a Taali,/ red dot on forehead that was submitted to the consulate and they interprete it as a wedding photo. Poor girl got intimidated and sign that paper that's the only wrong thing she did, She' not married as such should have stand ground, but Those pressure tactics and threat could scare any folks not familiar with the process. I would still fight it and wish you all the best with this tragedy.

hi,

i feel sorry for your fiance, her dreams would be gone down the drain... i know it feels horrendous.... to face all this nasty stuff... because i know the pain of 221g... i have been through 7 sleepless nights.. i did not sleep for like 7 days.. i got sleeep when i got the packet in my hand and i collapsed ooutside the mumbai VFS office....

THE BEST WAY IS TO APPLY THE RIGHT KIND OF VISA, I MEAN THE CATEGORY.

Thats the only way out , I feel

Jigi

Kshatriya: I think you have a good plain. I would stress that you talk to consulate and Department of State immediately. It's better to handle the issue at the consulate itself. Call the consulate and request to speak to an officer. Send a fax to consulate and explain your position as US citizen.

Get notarized letter from friend/family that you didn't get married. In times of great problem, it is easy to lose hope.
Please don't.

The simple answer is don't submit something that remotly looks like wedding, I know that highly immpossible with so many cultures in INDIA, so bottom line is dont submit any, if you do be there with your fiance and don't let her sign anything without consulting you.

If you were married and divorced before that makes the case more complicated, they assume that you are human trafficing, I guess. Get married and do a K3.

They even told my fiance that she will be banned for her life and can't enter US if she doesnt sign the paper, which is pure BS.

My opinion was she should have walked out and let them do what they can, since they dont have any solid proof they would have agreed to give her the Visa. You can't convince NVC, with a photo that someone is married, when they return the petetion to NVC in US.

There is a huge mis-concept in the West, that a dot means married, that not true, atlease not where I grew-up, Andhra Pradesh INDIA. I gotta find the PBS show that started this

Anything can look like taali and every culture does it in different ways in INDIA. I wish this was not this complicated.

khastriya,

If anybody has engagement cermony in our culture red dot definitely gets put on. I think taali means mangalsutra, that gets put on during wedding at least in our customs.

You are right we should not submit engagement photos during I129F submission. But, during interview you will tell them that engagement is done and they will ask pictures for proof. Now if you show photos without any customs like red dot. It doesn't look real.

That's a big lesson learned not to ever sign anything to withdraw petition.

Best wishes and hope your K1 appeal succeeds.

I totally agree with you on that statement, and DON"T EVER SIGN ANY STATEMENT specially something that is Incriminating, It's advisable to say I have told the true and you want me to sign a false statement, therefore you will have to address my advocate/Lawyer.
As for the red dot, I was refering to the Red powder right on the top of the forehead going to the hair, I don't know how you call it, but for hindu i thought it's like a sign of marriage. From reading this website I learned a lot about the indian consulates, and bascically went through all the pictures we were about send to make sure there's nothing that can give the impression of a wedding, Engagement in India is a big affair and for someone whose not well verse on the culture and even consulate gives hard time with their interpretation, so don't leave out anything that can be taken different way. I feel for your fiancee and wishes you all the best.

The red kum kum in ur hair, above forehead is something North Indians do and that too some parts.

South indians its Taali/MangalSutra and Mattelu(ring on the feets second finger)

We are Maharastrians, we do the Taali/Mangal Sutra and Mattelu (ring on the feets second fingure).

All I can say is Chennai Consulate officers are ignorant on Indian Customs and differences.

I have been off the boards lately... but you must contact the congressman asap. They will send the petition back fast, so you need to make sure the congressman sends an email. Also, appeals are useless... take too long.. we went thru this... we only got approved(the second time) because the congressman prepared them.. and I flew down for the interview...

They cannot just make people sign on anything they want. They can ask the stupidest (grammer!) questions but certainly not force someone to sign on a piece of sh!t.. that makes me so MAD
What makes it worse is that its the Indians at the Consulates that treat everybody like that. They of all the people should know the customs and traditions. Thats probably why they are there in the first place anyway. I hate this "COLONIAL" mentality....
Just Venting

DanielParul: I agree with you. Lot of desi workers have this colonial mentality, continuing from British Raj. They can't think that India is not servent of UK or any other country.

We are only expecting desi-stuff to explain the cultural thing properly. They can do that without feeling they are servent of anybody.

I am very sorry to hear about your case. I was under AP for more than a year. Anyway, it seems they had transferred out the thugs who used to man the Mumbai Consulate after 2006 and now it seems they transferred them to Chennai. One only has to do some research and will know what I am talking. The scene you described was a usual thing at Mumbai, especially for inter-racial couples (1999-2005). Also, the Indian counterpart at the consulate does not necessarily understand all the cultures and many times is very bigoted towards Indians of other caste and language. I could virtually see the hate in the eyes on the Indian employee.

Also, I have to admit that those who commit fraud, do use the K1 route even when they are married, simply because its the quickest and I know atleast a dozen. When I did not know anything about the process, I didn't think twice about it. But when I started my process, I wondered, "Gosh, how did XYZ who married the American desi got her visa and moved to the US in 3 months???" When I inquired with some they told me, "stupid, we did the K1 and planned it the moment the marriage got arranged". Alas, I have never heard of any of those fraudsters getting denied.

Anyway, I think the plan which you have come up with is the best according to me. Contesting the denial, involving congressmen/women, lawyers will be very lengthy and expensive. Getting married and then filing for an K3/CR1 and documenting everything, writing a letter to the Consular Chief before the second interview explaining the situation and attending the interview yourself too, should make it work. We have a person here, who was denied for K1 or K3, I can't remember, who refiled and requested for a interview with another consulate and got the visa next time and it was only a few months.

Good Luck, stay strong!!

hello friends
i also got white 221g
they asked more relation proof in it

actuly i did absence marry in usa and we did traditional cermony in india
so our marry valied as per tesax law and us law that is why we not regester our mary in india
because i cant do marry again in india because we doing paper from our first marry and india marry is just traditional cermony

pls go and check on my post pls advise wt i do
and wt is meaning of white 221g
how much time it can take