Just wondering whether any one else thinks it a bit peculiar regarding all the double-dipping and touching of food that goes on in Russia...
I’ve got some friends that do it here too, but I simply don’t like it. While I was there, in Russia, recently, one of my step-daughters was serving a freshly baked cake. I was looking forward to eating a slice, and then I noticed how, between each serving, she would stick her fingers in her mouth and lick the icing from the knife too. In my mind, I could only picture someone spitting on each piece of cake they served. And then I began thinking about all the food I had eaten in cafes and restaurants in Russia, assuming each kitchen had freshly licked fingers.
On the flight home, I thanked God for vodka.

In my travelling around the world, I've noticed that it is really Americans that are unique in trying to keep everything sterile. In bars in Holland for instance, they don't really wash glasses in bars, they just rinse them.

It is really only the US (and maybe Italy and a few other places) where people are obsessed about everything being cleaned to death. Notice all the anti-bacterial soaps and cleaners ? You don't really see them outside the states. BTW, most bateria are not bad for you.

If it makes you feel better (or worse), peoples hands are far dirtier than their mouths. Eating with hands, shaking hands, opening doors, etc is exposing you to lots more bacteria and viruses. You inhale enough of other peoples saliva just being in the same room with them to catch something.

I may be way off base here, but my RW is quite vigilant about bacteria and "microbes". Our shoes are off as soon as we enter from outside and our hands are always scrubbed, else we get an earful. Our puppy is forbidden to go upstairs or to sit on the couch.

And , I like it this way! I guess this indicates that all women are different, even from the FSU.

When I was in Korea, it used to bother me that chickens would hang in the sun all day long on the vendors' carts in the streets. Then I realized that if 48 million Koreans ate the chickens, I'd probably be OK too.

My father in law showed me some of his home movies from North Korea. He didn't see any chickens there. In fact, he wasn't too happy about eating any form of meat -- he suspected it was either dog or cat, and was scared of it.

One of the odd things about Pyongyang, there are no traffic lights. Women stand in the middle of the road directing traffic. Of course, there are now cars...

I'm really surprised your father in law was allowed to get video. Pyongyang is really strict about that sort of thing. What does he do that he was allowed to do that.... and why was he there?

Very interesting. It's weird because every time I watch a show here on PBS or a news magazine show about North Korea, they always talk about how hard it is to get video out of the country, or they were only allowed to shoot certain things. (Like the women directing traffic.) But, while in South Korea, they had video on the news all the time. I guess it all depends on what's smuggled out, or who releases it. It's not often that Westerners get to even visit Pyongyang.

(And contrary to what they show on TV here, it's actually a very modern city. The rest of the country is like the rest of Korea though... rural farming and small villages. To us that looks like poverty and desperation, but in reality, it's the norm there. The famine did hit hard, and like every communist country, if you're not directly aligned, times can be rough. However, what we see on TV here isn't always an accurate representation of every day life there.)

I had the opportunity to visit a clinic in Volgograd, during my visit in February. I had to laugh at the cleanliness. Everyone going in had to buy blue slip-on shoe covers. Of course, putting these on in the dirty hallway, walking in the mud and snow from everyone else, seemed to defeat the purpose of the slip-ons.

The "blanket" over the medical insruments was also entertaining. At least they use disposable needles for injections!

That's quite a racist statement. I find it offensive. Everybody's different.

I just get the impression that you guys see something that impresses/annoys you, and right away think that it's a general rule, when, in fact, it may be a rare exception.

Workin4somethin, trust me, if I saw somebody doing that to a cake, I would have puked right there, and wouldn't have touched that. My family were (and are) totally obsessed with cleaning, and most people I knew were like that too.

Hypocrisy at its best. Based on your family you are "impressed" and think "everyone" meaning it's a "general rule" that everyone is like that too. What makes you so different from the rest of the people on the Russian forum based on your last comment?

I was born in the US, and it doesn't bother me that much. I think it comes down to manners, not hygine. My sister is crazy about cleaning everything. I'm not.

I do think it is fair to say in general, different cultures have slightly different conventions, manners and standards for hygine (many of which matter little for public health). People also vary substantially in their behavior as well.

Multinational corporations market cleaning products differently around the world. Often, the products are different as well. As they make more money this way, it would imply that cultural norms do in fact vary somewhat.
(I'll cite the Economist, 2 weeks ago about P&G products sold in Italy)

In the end here, we are not talking about behavior that will kill anyone. ( Still rude though, depending on the circumstances. My wife and I do things like this, but again, it is just the two of us here.)

It's somehow strange to hear that it is usual in Russia to do "double-dipping and touching of food". And knife licking. Very strange to hear it really. If workin4somethin had it in the family of his fiancee, it doesn't mean that it is general for a whole Russia.

You maybe surprised, but on russian forum (where russian women discuss their life in US with their American husbands and step-children) women say that they are shocked how their American step-children behave. They say that American children behave as pigs - they don't like to clean hands before eating, don't to wash faces in the mornings, don't clean their rooms, throw toilet paper on the floor, etc. Also women are shocked how Americans eat - noisy, not pleasant, and doing some not pleasant things while eating. That's what many russian women say. And WHAT? And after reading this I should start to think that ALL American people do it? That a whole country is like this??

Does it depend just on people? I am sure it does. There are always people who behave like pigs, in each country. But it doesn't mean that a whole country is like this.

So why you, guys, say such not pleasant things towards a whole Russia? My fiance for example says that I'm thinking too much about how clean things are. And I am russian. So what??

I just hate when someone has bad experience with things and then makes a comment towards a whole country.

They do a lot of this double-dipping in my wife's family in Vietnam too. They have all of the food in the center of the table and everybody uses the same set of chopsticks they eat with to pick the food from the center of the table and put it in their bowls. I have to tell you I the first time I sat to dinner with them I was in shock, especially with the bird-flu scare going around that this is the way they eat. I ate with them like that, just reminding myself that none of them appeared to be sick.

But on the otherhand my wife is a freakin shower nazi. She showers about twice a day, and every night since she's been here she insists I shower before going to bed, even if I woke up 5 hours earlier and did nothing all day except watch TV. I feel like my mother moved in.

Yes, you're exactly right. These things bother me too - one Russian girl is a pig, and people tend to think that we all are.

Satellite, you always have something rude to say, I'm not surprised. But what makes me different is that I grew up in Russia and I know better than all of you American people altogether. And I don't judge by my family - I just said that in my family this stuff was kinda over the board. I just KNOW that finger-licking is NOT considered normal in Russia, that's it.

I was born in the former USSR as well. And have been back there three times recently for a combined total of about 6 months living like a local so I am quite familiar with many of the details.
But I do agree with you on the cleanliness aspect of Russians in general and the inappropriate mannerisms of many Americans. However, city Russians and village Russians vary drastically on a lot of these social behaviors.

silly chick,

hands off Satellite, please! contrary to what you say he's never rude although he always has something to say. he might be young but he's always very reasonable. (Satellite, i know you don't need my defense here but frases "always has something rude to say" are ridiculous to read).
silly chick и столько нас здесь таких, кто вырос в России и так хорошо узнал Америку, что и не знаю насколько вы "different"...


obender

Voyageur27 wrote: “… … my RW is quite vigilant about bacteria and "microbes". Our shoes are off as soon as we enter from outside and our hands are always scrubbed, else we get an earful. Our puppy is forbidden to go upstairs or to sit on the couch. And, I like it this way! I guess this indicates that all women are different, even from the FSU.”
My Russian wife sounds like yours regarding cleanliness, although she would probably allow a pet to roam and rest where they choose.

silly chick wrote: “Everybody's different. I just get the impression that you guys see something that impresses/annoys you, and right away think that it's a general rule, when, in fact, it may be a rare exception. Workin4somethin, trust me, if I saw somebody doing that to a cake, I would have puked right there, and wouldn't have touched that. My family were (and are) totally obsessed with cleaning, and most people I knew were like that too.”
I’ve visited several cities and households in Russia and other countries.
What I have seen in Russia is an obsession with personal cleanliness for most. I haven’t seen the clutter that I frequently see in the USA.
I have seen things such as double-dipping and finger licking in both countries, as I originally stated. I don’t know whether such actions are common in Russia or in any other country. However, I have seen it a lot in Russia.
I can’t remember the last time I puked, but it wasn’t due to someone touching my prepared food; and, if my Russian wife read this sentence, she would definitely scold me for my rude, filthy and free use of the word puke.”

russ wrote: “In the end here, we are not talking about behavior that will kill anyone.”
Ditto. Thank goodness for individual liberties.

Oregonfiancee wrote: “Does it depend just on people? I am sure it does. There are always people who behave like pigs, in each country. But it doesn't mean that a whole country is like this.
So why you, guys, say such not pleasant things towards a whole Russia? My fiance for example says that I'm thinking too much about how clean things are. And I am Russian. So what??
I just hate when someone has bad experience with things and then makes a comment towards a whole country.”
Wooo-Pig-Sooie, Go Hogs! I’m a Razorback -- what can I say?!
I’m with you, Oregonfiancee.
I can’t eat raw fish or even cooked fish if it still smells like raw fish. However, I love eating cooked frog legs, and my Russian wife thinks they’re the grossest thing.

I don't eat cooked fish. Or steak. I like it bleeding.

It took my wife about 2 weeks to decide that bleeding-mooing-blood red Prime Rib at the Palm is god's gift to mankind. (even better with good wine and creamed spinach).

(I don't think it is just to please me - she goes out to have it by herself )

What irritates me most of all about American teenagers is the following: they have no problem about jumping in bed in shoes or everything they have just worn in the street, all their clothing! This is million times worse than knife-licking! And this nation will try to show off about the hygine? This is just ridiculous!

These things are really just "Custom & Practice" of different cultures and have nothing to do with cleanliness. It sometimes bothers me to have to remove my shoes every time I enter someone’s home. This really has nothing to do with being hygienic or clean. I can see if I have muddy or wet shoes, then yes I would remove them but just from walking outside, that is silly. This is a cultural difference that is not widely practiced in the USA. I do remove my shoes in the evening but that is more for comfort than for keeping my floor clean! Sweaty feet, I'm sure, have much more bacteria growth than the soles of my shoes. I have noticed that the streets in Russia do tend to be dirtier (soil & rocks etc.) than those I see here in the US.

As far as personal hygiene, daily bathing is a fairly modern creation promoted by the plumbing industry (bathtub manufacturers) and the soap companies so they can make more money! If you bathe every day you use more soap!

There are much more serious germs out there than those we might carry on our shoes, clothing, or in our mouth's for that matter (what about French kissing!). For an idea of what to really worry about and a good reason to wash your hands often (especially before and after preparing raw foods) see the Bad Bug Book. A little dirt won’t hurt you but some of these bugs certainly will (if you survive them!).

Cheers!