That's too funny. I had almost the same exact thing happen, but it was outside while we were walking to dinner. And Nadya didn't warn me of what was to come. Right about the time I started to pull her back to confront the guy, she unleashed with some, as you say, serious мат. Hell, my testicles shriveled, and I was outside the cone of destruction. The poor idiot she put down must have been recovering from that assault for days.

I think Russian women have a "street brawler" gene. My wife has given me a "look" that would make dogs bark and children cry!

You guys had quite a discussion about cheapness while I was working all day!
I am jealous I want a job that will pay me the kind of money some of the older wealthier people on this board have and still be able to discuss cheapness all day!
I also noticed $30 being thrown around as the price of a cab from SVO2 to SVO1. As far as I can remember, nobody on here ever mentioned that. Instead it was something like, I haggled and got the price down from $250 to $150 from SVO2 to SVO1. And that's when I would interject in amazement.
As far as ages. I was 20 when I made my first trip to Russia in 2003. I had to save all my in school earnings for about 12 months to spend $3,000. Next year same thing but needed double the amount with my wife coming over and all the extra costs in sponsoring an immigrant. Back then I didn't even have a credit card to my name, so I couldn't spend the extra money if I wanted to.
I guess the best option would have been to wait until I was 30 - 50, divorced, and financially successful.

And when someone one here asks, what is the "cheapest way to..." in Russia, what I am supposed to say...go see some website catered to Westerns vising Russia and get ripped off like everyone suggests?

Speaking of financial troubles, I actually landed a job working for a Bankruptcy firm two weeks ago. I guess it is a perfect fit.

Then you have a poor memory, perhaps because your body is too cheap to allocate the proper number of neurons to this information. Nobody to my recollection paid $150 for a cab between SVO2 and SVO1. It might have been as high as $60.


I addressed this already in a previous post. I (and nobody else here to my knowledge) am not saying that at all. I appreciate the "cheapest way to..." posts. I do not appreciate the "you are a moron because you didn't just share a cab with 11 other strangers" answers.

11 other strangers and their luggage? I would like to see this cab!

I suppose it all comes down to whether or not you have the ability to haggle.

In Russian.

Which is exactly my point. I think it's great that Sat and a few others around here know enough Russian to find the cheapest way around the country, and that's very cool and I'm all ears when it comes to sharing that information. But (channeling Otto from A Fish Called Wanda now) "don't call me stupid." SVO is the most foreigner-unfriendly airport I've ever flown through, and I've flown through some doozies. If you speak the language you may not realize just how hard it is to navigate from the moment you step off the plane. The "customer service" people are rude, most don't speak English, and the English translations on the signs are few and far between, and often inaccurate. The cab drivers are a well orchestrated mob of muggers, and there's little in place to control them. To the hapless traveler who speaks little to no Russian, it's a no-win situation.

My poor memory:
http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...341&hl=taxi [Turboguy is offered $100 taxi each way]

"Wife says that if you do NOT do this, if you are fool enough to just show up at the airport and look for a taxi, you will pay at least $100 in Kazan, and $200+ in Moscow. They know you are stuck and simply will not take you for less. Pay heed!!!"
[Ak's Wife warning of $200 cab Moscow prices].
http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...mp;#entry371374

Both Mox and Seanconneryii admit to paying $60.
http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...l=cab&st=30

Russ says minimum $50 to SVO.
http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...2203&hl=cab

It's unfortunate the forum got restarted in early 2006, otherwise I could have found more cases of excessive cab paying.

This was a quote from SVO to the hotel, not SVO2 to SVO1, and it doesn't appear that turboguy actually paid it.


A warning, not actually a payment, and the Moscow quote is from SVO to downtown, not to the other terminal.


As I said.


Well under $100.

Read my quote again. I said nobody reported paying $100+ between SVO1 and SVO2. And it appears, based on your searches, that nobody has reported paying more than $60.

<snark>
Reading comprehension must be a little too expensive to run up there too, huh?
</snark>

They usually start at 2500-3000 rub, I tell them I will only pay a 1000. They balk and come down to 2000, I repeat 1000, they say, 1500 is best I can do, I turn around and start talking to a competitor cabbie and the original cabbie grabs my bag and says 1000 OK. So, what ever that works out to with the exchange, 40-45 bucks is what I pay. This negotiating tactic has worked every time.

Your follow up gave me a good laugh.



If there's no $100, then that chance must be taken.



I 100% agree with this. If there's money there and you can afford to pay for her to take cabs everywhere and stay in nice hotels and not have to deal with some of the unpleasant parts of a big unknown city, then sure, pay the extra money and rest assured that shel'll be well. However, she's in her country, and regardless of the city's size the things that you guys are talking about paying extra money to protect her from are not things that should be new just because she's in an unknown city.

To take this back to the OP, there's nothing in Russia that says women have to put up with being harassed at a medical place, even if it is to get a U.S. visa. The fact that it's in Moscow should be even more of a reason to not put up with unethical treatment. When I told my wife this story, she basically said that since it's a big city it would be more easy to report the violation and get the people arrested right on the spot. She related that women should never put up with this stuff at a clinic, they must just contact the police immediately and make a report.



I feel no need to "protect" my wife from things she's perfectly capable of protecting herself from. I'll even go one further to say if she's not protecting herself from things she knows she should be protecting herself from then maybe she deserves to get whatever comes to her.

The direction this thread was going in was if you didn't pay for your wife to have a driver to/from the airport and interview, the nice hotel, etc., then you really didn't care about her safety because you were a cheap bastard and would rather save $100 than "ensure" she was safe. The way I see it, if you pay for her to have a driver, a nice hotel, etc. the only thing you're really ensuring is that she's going to assume you're willing to pay for her to have the nicest things whenever she's associated with you. And that has nothing to do with security at all.


(And once again, thanks for sharing the story Mr. "kind eyes!")

Agreed. And you know when it shows best; when we go out once a month to some little cafe to eat for under $15 my wife is appreciative and excited about it; and when you pay through the roof, then all you get is, why did you take me to this lousy place, the food is nasty, and why only $30 a plate?!

No...the direction of the thread was the hazards of going to MOM. The follow on was using MOM and getting same day results versus staying an extra day to avoid the possibility of abuse. Then we debated the "risks" versus spending money issue.

Sorry to bust into this thread but I just have to say I can't agree with you (Eekee) more here... The stories i have involving men (mainly foreign men, but one or two even involving Russian men) walking around, is quite horrifically extensive. The stories of girls walking around alone? Not so much. The only one I can think of is when my friend Masha was pick-pocketed while riding on the marshrutka rom Devyatkino. In my opinion, I'd be more worried about something happening to your girl while inside a club---and not as much outside of it. In Russia, looks can be very deceptive- and in every sense of the word.

Again, different strokes, different folks. Russia is not the safest place in the world, for anyone, escpessially young women who are not from big cities travelling in the big cities. If you want, I can probably dig up recent news stuff on it. But, I dont need to worry about my safety, I am better equipped to handle myself against a male attacker than my fiancee is. THAT is why I worry about her safety.

Not necessarily. When you're alone in a big foreign city, you (as a foreigner male) are going to be "attacked" by more than one guy and they're probably going to use violence or the threat of violence (maybe even with a weapon) in an attempt to forcefully take money. Or, they're just super drunk and going to beat you up for sport.

A woman alone in a city is going to be "attacked" by either a sober man or two in an attempt to force sex on her or by a drunk person (or people) that are also looking either for sex or maybe a purse or something.

Guys get beat up and taken to the ATM and then beat up some more. Women get their purse snatched or beat up and then raped. Either way, it's usually more of a "wrong place at the wrong time" scenario in which being a man or woman isn't going to help you avoid the "attack." What is going to help you is being an American man with enough money to not be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Since you can pay for more "security" than she can, I can see you being more worried about her. But, being a guy walking alone at night doesn't ensure your safety (especially in Moscow) any more than it would for your fiancee. If anything, I agree with the ladies above and say it would increase your risk.

Sure, I feel better defending myself walking down a dark alley than seeing my girl do it. But, in all reality, the situations that put me (us, as foreigner dudes) in danger probably don't put her (the Russian and even American ladies) in the same danger.

And that's why I never worry about her.

yep... you, unarmed, vs a gang of nine guys ten, fifteen years your junior with knives to slit your throat (the Russian way)--maybe if you're Chuck Norris. but otherwise, you're screwed.

So, I gotta ask, Whats the Russian way of slitting a mans throat? I know "old fashioned" and "colombian Necktie", but not Russian.

I just meant that it seems to the common Russian protocol, not that there was some special way.

Slim,

I agree with what you are saying. However, if I am jumped as a foriener in Russia, it is because I have money. They want it, I give it, I might take a few shots, but unless they are wanting to kill me from the git go, I come out of the ordeal OK. If your wife is jumped in Russia, its not for money, it is for something else, because she would be viewed as a Russain, who probably doesnt have the kind of money worth their time.

So, I get beat up, and lose 500 or 1000 bucks. I am pissed for sure, but I am going to get over it. I have a feeling that forcible rape by the above mentioned nine guys is probably a little tougher to get over. So, if I have the extra jack to make sure that she is safe, then I am going to spend it.

I hear a lot of speculation but no personal accounts. War stories. The idea that the a man is in more danger than woman is a unique concept in ANY country in the world...except maybe the Amazon.

Russian men are more lovers than fighters out on the street. The mean Russians are the ex commandos, KGBers, secret police, and generals...now they can cut your throat but only if you're higher up the food chain where serious money or power issues are at stake. But the common Russian man doesn't worry me...usually they're too drunk to be very dangerous.

The vision of a "gang of armed thugs" roaming the streets is something I've never seen in 4 different cities in Russia and several other FSU countries. I have seen a pack of wild dogs a few times...but now gangs.

The only targets of group attacks I've heard of is Muslims from neighboring countries who come to work in Russia. Often these Muslims will work during Russian holidays and will often pay the price by getting their shops and markets trashed. But that's a different issue than random encounters.

Anyone have a personal encounter with armed thugs? I don't mean "I have a friend" stories but personal accounts.

Someone whom I shared several friends/acquaintances with was murdered and one of my friends was almost murdered but got away in time. By gangs. I think that answers your question?

It's very different going there for a few weeks and not being able to speak Russian and taking the route one needs to take to seduce a lady versus living there for a long time. You see and understand things very differently. You know that when the news says "hooligans" what they really mean is "neo-nazi fascists who are out to kill anyone who is not ethnically Slavic."

Sorry to hear about your friends. You did not mention if your friends were Americans.

Of course, I can name any country in east or west Europe and hear similar stories...but are the streets really not safe for American men who use common sense? Maybe if you're out on the streets at 3 am near a rough club in the wrong side of town...just like anywhere in the world.

I actually think Americans are safer in Russia as many young people like our music, clothes, sports and culture. If Americans were dying in Russia or were in danger, it would be big news and the state dept. would put out an alert.

BTW, the attitude behind your use of the term "seduce" is not appreciated. I'm not a sex tourist. And I've clocked about 23 weeks in Russia and the FSU...far more than "a week" here or there. I've rented a house and three flats so you need to loose the attitude you know more than others do.

OK OK fine... "courting." I didn't mean to offend you in any way. I didn't realize that seduce would be offensive. But if your purpose in going to Russia is to find a woman to marry, then you are in fact going there for seduction in some way. Not in the sense of sex tourism, but still in a certain sense.

Still, it is a different experience. The fact that you haven't seen any gangs in Russia and think that the issue with race/neo-nazis is limited to the shops of muslims being smashed during holidays leads me to believe that. My neighborhood was in the territory of a certain gang who put their sign all over the street and wrote messages like NIGER OUT. And it was a relatively good neighborhood very near the center.

1 was American; one was not but i can't really get into specifics here. I know other Americans who were beat up as well, but no Russians.

Anyway, while it's true that it is generally minorities are targeted it is only recently that the Russian government has stopped denying it's happening. there was a wall street journal article about it a couple of days ago. The other issue is that most people do not report things to the police. And once you do report it, it can be hard to take it seriously and if the people who did it know where you live and can identify you, well...

As far as whether Russians like Americans... well, they like to copy African-American hip hop styles but no one is ever going to make the case that Russians like black people. It doesn't really make a difference whether they co-opt American styles or not.

and by the way, my information comes from what was told to me by one of Russia's leading experts on the subject of the rise of neo-nazis in Russia and human rights in Russia. What does one need to have to be considered an "expert" on russia, in your opinion? a phd?

A man.

(kidding! kidding! I saw the opening, I had to take it. )

Right answer Mr. Mox!! And what do we have for our winner Chuck? Well...the lucky winner gets a one-year subscription to MS Magazine, a genuine rainbow bumper sticker that reads: "I'm a feminist too...my wife told me!" plus two tickets to the Ellen DeGeneres show..and, last but not least, an autographed photo of Gloria Steinem burning her bra in 1972. A sidebar story...some people now blame global warming on all the bras that were burned between 1968 and 1978. And remember those bras were burned well after the fire marshal banned open air fires. The guys don't get off the hook though...all those draft cards that were burned between 1965 and 1968 also contributed to our serious pollution problems.

I believe it involves a dull knife. Anyone can cut a throat with a sharp knife. A dull knife takes longer and is more insulting.

(I watched a video of a Russian soldier being executed in Chechnya a few years back. Someone had a boot on this guys head and then they just started sawing his neck with a hunting knife. What a graphic and horrific video. Really drove home the point that it's better to be killed than captured, and as long as you keep fighting, you'll never have to be executed like that.)

I think in Russia, especially in Moscow/St. Pete, anyone with money is going to be targeted for crime. However, I believe if you take simple steps to minimize your risk, you can avoid it 99% of the time, male or female. And of course, if you have the money to pay for your girl to minimize her risk, then by all means, do it.



While I was in Moscow my friend (also young American man) and I were walking down one of the busy streets (I believe it was the garden ring, anyway) after leaving one of the night clubs late at night and I told him we needed to change directions and head "that way" to get back to our flat. Well, "that way" was straight down a very dark, very small alleyway.

Needless to say, he wasn't thrilled about it and we spent the better part of 10 minutes arguing over the pros/cons of walking down the alley. Just when he was about to flag down a cab to ride the rest of the way home (which probably would've taken us down the dark alley anyway) I grabbed him and started walking. He was b!tching and moaning the whole time saying stuff like "If we get beat up or killed, it's your fault." (Like that even matters!) I reminded him two drunk American guys standing on the side of the busiest street in Moscow weren't exactly safe either, especially when they looked like they were arguing. We continued on through this dark alley and we could see the light at the end of the tunnel.

When we emerged, unscathed by the unknown dangers that lurked within, there was a huge light ahead, and we could see girls in bikinis dancing next to a pool. WTF? We walked up to the flathead guarding the steps and he extorted a couple extra bucks from us and before we knew it, we were sipping adult beverages with the models next to the pool.

War story? I think not. But, sometimes a little risk brings about a nice reward. If I would've gotten my throat cut with a dull knife I wouldn't have shared this story. But, since it worked out nicely, that's the "war story" that I have to tell about my buddy and I overcoming our fear of the dark alley in Moscow.