I can't say that I could generalize completely to saying Russian women are better than American women, because to be honest I haven't known that many Russian or Ukrainian women. But in the case of my wife, I can say that her beauty, brains, morals, attitude, etc. etc. are far more attractive to me than any other American woman I have ever known. Are other FSU women this way? I don't know, but in the case of my wife there is a world of difference between her and other American women I've known. From posts like this I suspect other men have had similar experiences, but maybe others have had the complete opposite experience.

I guess I have known some pretty amazing American women, but you know what? They were almost always taken! When I looked overseas it seemed to me that it was easier to find these same amazing women who were still single. Case in point...after getting out of my last horrible relationship, I was a lot more picky and looked for about 7 years without finding anyone I really felt good about. When I started looking in the FSU, I found my wife after a month or two.

To each his/her own I guess, but for me a FSU woman was definately what I was looking for.

Of course you like her more; she's the one you married!

There's less good women who are not single here because Americans wait a lot longer to get married and have children. The average age of marriage in Russia is a lot lower and people have children earlier in the marriage. People tend to get married much earlier in the relationship as well. Hence, the high rate of divorce.

True. I'm still amazed how young they normally get married and have children even. I'm constantly having to tell my wife she's not old at 25, but it's hard for her to accept since most of her friends have long been married with children.

Exactly. And every night I went out I'd see girls my age wearing wedding rings who would make out with multiple guys. Why get married if you're not ready? (To be fair, I'm sure there were married guys doing the same thing, but they probably took their rings off.)

Oh, ick!!!

Yes other Jeff and Eekee, however if they are pre-wrapped in cellophane well you don't get to do much touching. Never again will I buy t-shirts at the airport! Sent my wife a lot of clothes I bought here, she seemed to like them. didn't buy much except for "been there done that" t-shirts in Russia.

Can't respond on the face cream, my wife buys Yves Rocher stuff but is slowly gravitating to American cosmetics. The Hind? Well it did have an Akula painted on the front of it so not only fierce looking (think Spitfire in WWII) but a thing of beauty too! It tore up after 3 games of handball (yes it was washed in between and it was of a heavier fabric than the t-shirts sold at the airport) But those airport t-shirts, man they look awfully funny on me and my not so slim torso sticking out below the bottom of the shirt. (belly button exposure is only good for young women not over the hill men).

You're preaching to the choir!

Regarding t-shirts from Russian, I've bought several and they are always one size too small. That is, a "large" is really a "medium." So I buy one size up. I haven't put them to the rugged test so can't speak to quality.

I don't necessarily disagree with your comments about Russian marriage but you can't make clear judgments about Russian marriages because some couples, with or without kids, never bother to go through a real marriage process. That throws off the data.

I hope you remembered that Russians wear their wedding rings on the right hand. Nonetheless, seeing a ring on someone's hand and making judgments about them is weak in my view. Unless you actually know their martial status, you can't really be sure of very much.

And maybe some were married but separated, as can be the case in the USA. I've seen US women I know were separated still wearing their rings...what does that really tell me?

Of course i know that russians wear their rings on their right hand. My mom did as well.

For the record, I also have single male russian friends who hooked up with said married girls. The attitude about married people seems to be, male or female, is that their marital issues are not your business and if someone is cheating it just means their marriage is bad and it's not immoral to sleep with them. This is what people in russia have said to me about this issue. This one woman i know accused her boyfriend's wife of stealing "her" man.

This may be a generational issue...the way the young Russians are operating in the big cities. Doesn't sound like what I've heard from the older Russians I've hung out with. If a Russian man heard his wife was hanging out at a bar kissing all the guys in the place (and the word would get back to him), I think there'd be hell to pay for the wife. OK for the guys to have lovers...not for the women. That is the Russia I hear about.

There are plenty of married Russian women who cheat on their husbands, it's simply something they do surreptitiously. I believe the myth that Russian men are "bad" (alcoholics, serial adulterers, etc.) is the kind of stuff spewed by marriage agencies that want western guys to believe their penpals are sweet, innocent wallflowers. From my experience Russian women are much more sexually sophisticated than their Western counterparts, have fewer hangups, and won't stigmatize a friend or colleague who is cheating.

Good Post!

Alot of westerners dont realize how much propoganda is being fed to them by these agencies via myths.

I do have friends who have had experience with married "cougars" in their 30s and 40s, so I don't know if it's generational or not.

I agree with groovlstk... There are lots of bad stereotypes about Russian men, but I've seen bad things on both sides--female adulterers, females with substance abuse problems, etc.

Anyway, from what I've gathered the whole fidelity thing operates in a "don't ask, don't tell" policy. Word probably wouldn't even get back to the husband because whatever is going on in the marriage is not seen as anyone else's business. Maybe in the village it's different though.
But in a truly strong loving relationship, it won't come up at all. When people go straight from their parents' house into marriage, however, it's hard to see how they can build a functional relationship without having ever having been independent. I'm eight years younger than my guy but I left home six years ago and there's some ways in which I am far more mature and "ready" than he is.

I will disagree with you about hangups groovlstk... But certain things that cause a huge scandal here are not cause for even batting an eye there.

That's because a large Russian man is what American's view as only medium!

so true! In the US I am, 9 times out of 10, the skinniest girl in the room... In russia I'm practically chubby. luckily that changes after a few weeks of Russian life... Whenever someone asks me about diets they should try, I tell them to go to Russia.

If your hearsay, anecdotes, and small sample size of "friends" really means anything regarding Russian social values and mores...maybe we should change the name of this thread from "Russian women are amazing" to "Russian women are wild, Bohemian swingers who cheat on their husbands and nobody cares."

I'll make one observation, Eekee, your testimony is dubious simply because you're an American women talking about Russian women...and that calls into question your objectivity...especially when you hear us guys singing the praises of Russian women (like the title of this thread) all day long. Maybe you're trying to "rain on our parade" a little? Anyway, no offense but I'm taking you stories about all these Russian "friends" with a grain of salt."

As your addition is as well! I could eat like a horse if I wanted in Russia and never worried about increasing in size. It took me three months after returning back to the States to adjust my eating with my activity to find my balance again. I miss all that daily walking and grocery carrying up eight flights of stairs!

Yep... Going to the gym is just no substitute. it was really hard to me to adjust back to the american lifestyle, and i still haven't fully.

Seanconneryii... Whatever helps you sleep at night! I have too much to do at the moment to participate in any more childish dialogues with you. No one ever gets anywhere.

Today you inform we men of the forum who love and propose to or marry Russian women that we should all know that Russian women are whores, sluts and dishonest marriage cheaters. Remember where you are when you start slinging crap around...remember the audience.

I have to say you are the female reporter inside the all male locker room on this forum...and sometimes, frankly, you tire me with all your "American girl visits Russia and knows it all" stories about all your Russian "friends" cheating on each other and how you are the forum's resident expert of on things Russian. Always negative comments about Russian women...not so smart on THE RUSSIAN FORUM with men who love and marry Russian women.

Wise up and keep your ugly comments about Russian women to yourself.

Female Jealousy?

Whose?

Let's just say men 40 and up who are already divorced with kids make great golf buddies for my dad, not potential boyfriends for me. And I already have a man who loves me, so I don't really care what any other man in the world is doing in their search for a mate. I also have more Russian female friends than American ones. I just don't think all Russian women are innocent, delicate flowers brutalized by evil, wimmin-beatin' beasts who need to be saved by an American knight in shining armor. So whatever jealousy there is exists only in Seanconneryii's head. I'm lucky; I found a good Russian man, which. Nothing for me to be jealous of. The only issues I've ever had with Russian women are a select few who were not very nice to me because I got one of the "good" ones. In general I actually get along better with Russian women and I can't wait until the summer when I can go out dancing with the girls in spb

Maybe you need to seal the deal before you go much further into the pros and cons of Russian marriage and your continuing discourse on the sociology of Russian life ...then you can talk about "your man" with some validity. No marriage. No application for a visa for alleged fiancee. Zero credentials. Just all those boring stories. And those "friends." You really took SPB by storm!

This site is called visa journey. Show us some visa credentials, then you can talk up to the big boys. Otherwise do more listening and less BSing. Any drunk in a bar can talk the talk...and tell stories. Walk the walk and you'll get my attention...and respect.

ahh, just what i've always dreamed of... seanconneryii's respect! hold on for a second while i break out my Tiger Super Magic Dear Diary from 1996 and amend the entry about my hopes and dreams for my life. I've forgotten a very important addition!

oh wait--i never said that i wanted your attention or respect.

i seem to garner a lot of your attention... not that i want it. why do you always feel the need to attack me? it's really weird.

You have a way with words..."creepy" "weird" "attack." That will not win you friends and draw positive posts. You like to take your shots ("childish dialogue") and then act surprised when you get zinged in return. Other posters have commented about your angry attitude...i am not alone in seeing your unpleasant vibes at times.

Frankly, you seem to me as an "orange" among mostly "apples"...this is essentially a forum for primarily men and a very few women with a true "visa journey" situation to share about...here and now, not someday down the road...maybe. You seem more on a dating journey telling us all about your cool cheating young Russian friends hanging out at the bars and clubs and making it with women of all ages...that does not feel like a visa journey story to me.

Yet you pipe in and play the resident spokesperson for the feminist cause and to inform us how slutty and dishonest Russian women are, and how you and your "friends" have it all going on and are just so cool and "get it." You openly insult men over 40 and make snotty comments too often questioning motives of men and taking shots to defend your American sisters.

This is not just a Russian BS forum or the gender wars forum, it's for people in real visa situations with real fiancees and wives or husbands. I don't see how that fits you. You seem more a wannabe or hanger on. You say you have a boyfriend and you're going DCF...ok, when you go DCF, start posting here and I'll buy your stories and listen up to your comments. Otherwise your a distraction and the intruding female nagging at us men too often...and the rest of the time you're the resident expert on all things inside the FSU...and your just 22. I'm sorry, but I can't take you seriously under the current manner in which you play games on here and intrude on legitimate visa stories.

I misspoke about the "attention" part of my previous post...I should have said "supportive responses to your posts." But you have no visa journey to support...just a lot of input and comments to show us how cool and hip you are and let us hear an angry American women's view of everybodies business...just what I don't want to hear. I escaped from that and I don't want to dance with it here. And from a young women who only a few years earlier was a teeny-booper, now telling me what's what about Russian culture and marriage and sexual mores and anything else you care to inflict on us.

simple answer for you, seanconneryii--don't read my posts. it's not difficult. you see my name, skip it. VJ even has a feature where you can ignore users if you go into your control panel. Go to "My Controls," "Options," and then "Manage Ignored Users." Type "eekee" in the box. Anyway, if you're that offended over something on the internet, i don't really know what else anyone can do for you.

i also thought that visajourney was a place for people to gather INFORMATION about the process before they file as well, which is something I'm doing right now as I also am waiting for my visa support materials for my 1 year Russian visa. and as i said, there is no sign on the Russia forum that says MEN ONLY. I also don't hate Russian women--that is something you made up in your own head. I just happened to not see Russian women as one-sidedly as you do. Of course you have a very rosy view of them--you're in love with one. I can say that both Russian men and Russian women cheat, and it's not anything new. Thinking of some movies I watched recently--"The Cranes Are Flying," "The Irony of Fate," "Little Vera," "Brother"--all well-known and popular Russian movies that are a part of the cultural dialogue, all featuring women cheating on boyfriends/husbands/fiances. It's a different cultural standard.

All I am saying is that whatever issues you have with American women, I can't really help you there, but don't make me the brunt of all your vitriol. It won't make up for all of the damage that American women have done to you in the past, sorry. If you are that offended by other points of view, use the ignore button. I laid out instructions for how to make use of this feature above.

And face it... you're way more interested in attacking me than I am in attacking you. I don't know why I have become the symbol for "Feminists Who Have Wronged Seanconneryii," but whatever.

Oh, and I don't insult ALL men over 40. Just men over forty named seanconneryii who also insult me and accuse me of being jealous of their wives. When I am addressing "men over forty" in my posts, I really mean you. Because I respect and enjoy reading the posts and experiences of the other men over forty in this forum.

I hope that you make good use of the ignore button like I suggested, because I am really tired of playing this ridiculous game. You hate American women, you think I hate Russian women (although I don't), the end.

I would also like to add the description for "Regional Discussion," in case you were confused--



OK i hope you have gotten the ignore feature all set up!

back to Russia girls and how they are amazing: I am always amazed at how well they can walk on the ice in heels. I always fall down. Discuss.

But they do make good boyfriends if you are a Russian woman in need of "stability" And a green card, etc...

I actually kept statistics... 3:1! I fell thrice on the ice and Alla only once. She was wearing heels, but... She is a former figure skating champion and coach, so well...

I did not, for record, make the "jealousy comment" that was another poster...keep it straight who your insulting. I never got the meaning of that comment anyway but I can't take credit for it. I don't think jealousy is your issue...but you have issues with Russian women and American men and whatever... Anyone call track your posts and see that. Like I said earlier, you're getting your kicks raining on our parade.

I see you're getting way too much fun messing with the men on this forum, and drawing negative attention to yourself as well. Must be a self-esteem issue or maybe you hate men or your dad or whatever. You see, I can do psycho babble too.

You put a lot of energy in replying to all my posts considering you dislike me and suggest I ignore you. Wonder why you don't ignore me? Interesting. I think you're just having a lot of fun messing with us.

Maybe ice-skating is the key... Russians seem to ice-skate a lot more than we do. Maybe girls who take figure skating lessons as a child here also do not fall on the ice. I think a comprehensive study needs to be done.

Alla had skates on probably before she could walk. We rented a rink to ourselves once. I had never skated prior. She promised she could teach me in 30 minutes. I replied, no way! She insisted that, as a successful coach, if I listened to her, I would skate unassisted. I was shocked as she was right! I could make an entire loop without falling. I'm sure it has a lot to do with that nimble footing on the ice.

I've skated a few times before, and I used to be really into street hockey as a kid. I learned how to skate using hockey ice skates, and when i went to Russia and skated with figure skates I was informed that I skated boy-style, like you do when you wear hockey skates. I didn't even know there were boy and girl skating styles. maybe if i learned girl-skating, I could walk like a Russian on ice.

I've also noticed most girls grab the arm of either a female friend, their mom, or their man while they walk around as well... I'm sure that helps their balance too.

I started skating when i was 5, most of people in my class did as well. It was something to do during winter. There was always few open ice rinks in cities, it was awesome. Even though I was shafted with figure skates lol

Russian men are AMAZING!!

I've played ice hockey for more than 30 years, although since my wife arrived I haven't had the proper time to devote to it (and most likely never will...).

One of the highlights of my hockey days was playing with Slava Fetisov during summers when he was part of the NJ Devils team and wanted to stretch his legs before training camp began. He was mostly past his prime when he left the Red Army team to play in the NHL, but all the players who followed him in later years should kiss his feet for blazing the trail.

Fetisov is awesome, I've played with Kasatonov who also was part of devils when Fetisov played. I have few pics with Fetisov which I treasure dearly!

"Toe pick!"

yes, i can never walk more than two feet carrying something heavy without a man offering to carry it for me. in america they do sometimes, but it's not guaranteed like in Russia.

You know then that Fetisov and Kasatonov had a big falling out before coming to the US? When they both played for the NJ Devils, they refused to speak or acknowledge each other to the point where it drove their teammates crazy. The team would have to split into two separate groups when going out to restaurants, etc. because they refused to go out together. I'd always hoped that they'd reconcile someday...

Kasatonov was the better player at that point in their careers but Fetisov had the stones to rebel against the Soviet system without defecting. I remember reading about how much he hated the successful Red Army coach, Viktor Tikhanov, because he felt he was responsible for the death of a friend and teammate (I believe his name was Valeri Kharlamov). Tikhanov controlled every aspect of his players' lives, including how often they saw their wives and children. At one point Kharlamov was in Tikhanov's doghouse and when he asked that repairs be made to his car's brakes, Tikhanov refused. Soon after Kharlmov died in an auto accident when his brakes failed.

Wow, I knew about Tikhonov and other cis players, but didnt know about Kasatonov Fetisov fallout. What a shame

In Russia men will help you carry stuff because it's nice and it's a man's place to help a woman carry something. In the U.S., men well offer to help you carry stuff because they want your phone number. (Chris Rock does a wonderful bit about this. "Lemme help you with those bags.... lemme help you with some ####.")

haha, great stuff

Very true. By only problem is when this courtesy becomes a mandate with regards to children. This is one of the few things that Alla & I disagree on. Whenever we returned home with a weeks worth of groceries, it was my sole responsibility to carry all the bags. It was "not right" to ask her children to each take a small bag or two to lightened my load. I asked her, What do you do when I am not here. "We divide bags." was her answer. My retort was then , Why can't we do that now? To which she responded with the obvious, "Because you are here!" I pointed out that I expect my own children to help me when we go to the grocery store. To which was returned the predicted, "This not America!" Personally, I see nothing wrong with children helping in this capacity, in America or Россия!

Thats not russian thing, Russians make their kids do everything. Especially boys. It looks like an individual agenda not clash of cultures.

I agree this is not a clash of cultures. My wife expects her daughter to help with the groceries and other things.