Holy...what?!?! A Ukrainian woman that doesn't cook? That's unpossible!

P.S. I know of a lot of Turkish-Russian couples, (including my father's wife's best friend) and my fiance's neighbor...it's always going to be a mixed bag!

I think it's interesting how as humans we tend to categorize everything, especially other humans. Even this thread, "Russia girls are amazing." Sillyness

And besides, Turkish men are HOT...he he he.

Oh man, I'm such a hypocrite.

Now you can rename this thread "Russian girls are not all wonderful" My wife doesn't care about fancy stuff. I have to push her to buy quality of quantity. She always tells me she is a simple woman and only needs simple things. I always have to put money in her purse without her knowing. When I see her look at things and I can tell she likes them I will go back in a few days and buy it for her. (thank you god for my wonderful wife)

I've heard these stories too. They don't take no for an answer when you tell them you are not interested. And they call every Russian woman "Natasha" at the resorts. (Which I heard is their way of referring to you as a slut.) Alla told me they even, have the nerve to, do it in front of you when escorted by your husband!

No one said anything bad about RUSSIAN girls... just Ukrainian ones.

Actually the title of the thread is "Russia girls are amazing." I think the OP meant it as a reminder to the entire country, like "Hey Russia, by the way, girls are amazing! Just in case...you know...you forgot!"

Wow, that is awful. I never saw anything like that and I lived in Turkey for 5 months and have visited several times. Then again, I'm American, not Russian. I also wasn't in any of the resort towns/cities. In my experience, all Turks were incredibly polite and hospitable. I was always with my Turkish fiance, so perhaps I would have had a different experience if I were a tourist - who knows. But having said that, even when I was alone in Turkey, walking or taking the bus, etc., I never encountered a single problem. I actually thought that Turkish men were quite a bit less confrontational and harassing than American men. Just my experience. I'd venture to say that the resort culture is a bit different as they are constantly encountering foreigners and tourists. My fiance also speaks poorly of the people from this area of Turkey, but again, I hate stereotypes!

It is true that Russian women tend to have a bit of a bad reputation in Turkey as there is a high percentage of Russian (among other previously Soviet-Union countries) prostitutes in Turkey. It is unfortunate for the Russian women who simply want to visit and vacation along Turkey's beautiful Mediterranean coast.

Turkey is also a more conservative country due to it's Muslim heritage, so foreign women who dress the way they might at home might not receive the best responses. Sad but true. I did not bring any short skirts or low-cut tops with me to Turkey.

It's a very patriarchal culture (atleast compared to my liberal American upbringing), and at times was very hard for me to deal with.

Thankfully my fiance is quite the opposite...sometimes I wonder where he came from

The notorious Turkish men don't just focus on Russian women...they're quite open-minded about harassing women from Europe, the UK, and yes, our own USA women. They love blonds...of course. I got a close up view of Turks in Cyprus. Non confrontational? How about invading an island?

It begins with the bell hops and moves up the food chain. Russian women know how to push back but I feel sorry for unsuspecting women with less strength.

Your romanticized view of the Turkish male culture is...quaint.

I very much agree with you!Northern Ca is so different from south..Like different countries...but there are other things rather than difficulties in economics,such as perfect climate and ecology..air is so fresh,we have dears running all over...I just love that about North of CA!
We own our house and its not 500 000 as somebody-sorry don"t remember who mentioned,its around 650K and not the best you could get in this area,but we are young and working out the mortgage which is a big honour to us..

I was today with my niece in a kindgarden or pre-school,anyway..i was shocked of the culture,they teach kids age 4 that having no job means being a looser!We def.dont have that in russia..In russia you always have support of your family friends and relatives..you never considered loser even if you actually are:)So i guess thats a reason of states being More rich country..
Talking about other states,yes cost of living might be cheaper,but what about tornados?even idea of it freaks me out...but mortgage of 200 000 is quite tempting i would say:)Lucky you:)))

Woah. First of all - Cyprus and Turkey are very different. Cyprus is much more European and modernized than Turkey. Second - did you not see my statement, "It's a very patriarchal culture...and at times was very hard for me to deal with." Just ask my fiance about my "romaticized" view of Turkish male culture and he'll burst into laughter. I jokingly (yet half-seriously) threatened to start a womens right's movement while I lived there...I'm sure that would have gone over well.

Anyways, all I am saying is that I was never once harassed by a male in Turkey. Maybe it's because I'm not blond.

P.S. I resent your innuation that I am a "unsuspecting woman with less strength" and that my view is quaint. I'd venture to say that your rude rhetoric is no better than the Turks you so despise.

Turkish Cyprus like the whole island is not modern at all...far from it. i don't despise Turkisk men...just describing them as I see them and from hearing things from many sources. Most stereotypes contain some element of truth. Many Turks certainly won't be confused for soft-handed gentlemen.

I did not mean you when I said "unsuspecting blah blah." You sound like you can take care of yourself.

You were ok insinuating many Russian women in Turkey are hookers and so should expect to be treated poorly. Nobody, including hookers, deserves poor or demeaning treatment. Sounded kind of sideways to me. And you're a woman...what happened to sisterhood?

And you insinuated American men are worse than Turkish men regards interacting with women. As an American man, I take exception to that. Maybe you need to check your style of communicating about Russian women and American men on THE RUSSIAN FORUM.

The romanticized comment flowed from your "non confrontational comment," and simply because you didn't get your butt pinched while you were there, we all must be misguided or full of it.

Turkey is far from conservative when compared to hardcore Islam like Iran. Even more so then Egypt. Turkish women wear western clothes and have good jobs even in government. Turkey wants into the EU.

I suspect you got your back up about the negative comments about your guys "brothers." I understand that. Good for you to love your guy and want to support him. I'm glad you found a good guy. He sounds like a gentleman and willing to criticize his own people when justified. You will probably struggle with how Muslims treat women...but unless you plan to live there, you won't need to address that issue very much if your guy is modern and enlightened.

Yes, the "quaint' comment was tweaking your nose...but you're a big girl. Yes? Loose the attitude and you'll find us very trainable and we do tricks on this forum.

I don't know any young (even older for that matter) Russian woman that would not have this as her wardrobe for rest! Conservative non-revealing clothing on a Russian girl-??? Ain't going to happen!

Amen brother, amen!

Who said anything about Tornadoes; you can keep those in Oklahoma. You can have that $200,000 mortgage right here in California. From Sacramento to Bakersfield, the entire central valley has dropped dramatically. Many homes are on the market below $200,000.

What about state income and real estate taxes, sales tax, gasoline prices, etc? And there are those nasty earthquakes, fires and mud slides...maybe not where you mention...but the whole state has to absorb those costs...so your pockets are picked like everyone else. Yes?

Mercury must be in retrograde because once again we agree. The cost of living in California, no matter where you live, is much higher than most of the rest of the country. To me it's worth it because of the quality of life, but the costs nonetheless exist.

Frankly I'm surprised that Sat lives in SF. I'd have thought he'd bought some cheap waterfront property in New Orleans by now. (I dig because I know Sat can take it.)

State income taxes can be deducted from your Federal Return, so no problem there. Not sure how much lower property tax is in other states. But assuming it is the same and we are both talking about $200,000 mortgages, the difference should be minimal. Fires are certainly a concern. Not sure if hurricane or tornado insurance costs any more than fire insurance. Gasoline costs less in the central valley then in San Francisco. But yes, you do pay on average $0.25 more a gallon then the national price. Disasters in California actually effect the entire nation. Last year we had a record freeze in the winter and the price of oranges sky rocketed by $1.00 or so a pound. I can see pluses and minuses of living in California or somewhere else. It's really a personal choice and a comfort level thing. As others have mentioned we are a mobile society, we can get up and move.

We moved out of the City back in October. My wife got accepted to UC Davis and I was wrapping up law school. We were in the city simply because my school was there. Now we are back to the simple life. But like you, I like all the other things that go with California, so no Louisiana for me.

And like I said before, I'd rather spend my money "living" in California then on a taxi ride from SVO2 to SVO1

Ok Sat, since you seem to be hung up on numbers, I looked up some houses in Bakersfield, and I will put it to you another way. My house in Oklahoma City, built to order, cost me $83/sq ft. The houses in Bakersfield are going for $126-$172/sq ft. I hope that clears up my point.

No such thing as tornado insurance. And my $185K house insurance is $749/yr. House taxes (no personal property) here in my area are among the highest in the state, and cost $2400/yr. Oklahoma is about $.25 less than the national average on gas.

How recent is your data? Prices have fallen dramatically in the last 6 months. I don't think anyone's record's at this point can keep pace.

How accurate are the MLS listings for realtors in Bakersfield? I think they are pretty up to date (I looked them up right before I posted), and I didnt look at only one entry, that was how I came up with the range and searched for houses that have similar amenities as mine. I didnt want to be quoting prices for Bakersfield for houses with crazy custom woodwork or marble counters, since my house doesnt have that kind of stuff. There are a lot of houses that are in the $170K range, but they are all for 1200 sq/ft houses which do not compare.

And I will admit, I got a hell of a deal on my house, but most houses in my area (fastest growing, hence more expensive) are in the $90-95/sq ft range. You might pay $100-110/sq ft for a 3500 sqft house here if you did the granite/marble with custom cabinets and all the trimmings. But it would be a dream house. I have a friend who lives in a 3300 ft house with all the trimmings and he bought it 2 years ago for $91/sq ft.

Wow Bobalouie, tell me more!! I would never have thought of Oklahoma City as a place to be, but one of the job possibilities for Ritesh is in Oklahoma City, and that housing market alone is appealing! (Plus, it is a centralized jumping off point from which to explore the US!)

And like I said before, I'd rather spend my money "living" in California then on a taxi ride from SVO2 to SVO1
[/quote]

Just had to take that joyful taxi ride last sunday

Any midwest city will be less expensive than California to live. Northwest Arkansas is even less expensive than Oklahoma City. A big factor to consider is when you have children, what type of environment do you want them to grow up in? Big cities in the midwest will have some problems. I guess if you are from a large city and like that type of environment then you probably would not be happy in a small city. If you are concerned about cost of living I would not choose the Gulf Coast areas because insurance will kill you.

If Ira loves you she will be happy to be here with you. However, she will also let you know (sometimes numerous times a day!) how unhappy she is to be in the U.S.A. Yet, she'll stay.

As far as changing the country, good luck. I'm under the impression now that the die is cast. We're going to be blissfully unaware all the way up until the very end and then we're going to collectively asked "what happened?" (Only it'll be in Chinese or something.)



If they've made it 8 years, they're obviously both getting exactly what they want from the relationship. Hats off to them! (Even if she did marry him for the money and her married her for the, ah, well, what did her marry her for? Oh. That's right... who cares, she's 21 years his junior! Way to go old guy!)

Hahaha! Very true. She could easily be my sister!

I do have an adorable baby brother and 4 year old sister now! I CAN'T complain about that!

Amazingly, my brother is married to a first generation Turk. I guess cross-cultural marriages are just in our genes.

It's always intriguing, but then when it's acceptable, even encouraged, it's hard not to!

I lived in OKC for five years. Five miserable years. The drivers in that city are the worst I have ever had to deal with. I thought for a while it might just be me but my son (born in OKC) had to drive up from TX to OKC and then on to TN. When he got back, he swore he would NEVER drive to/through Oklahoma-in particular, OKC- again.
I don't care how cheap it is to live somewhere, if you are scared/angry every time you get out of your car--IT AIN'T WORTH IT!!!
Texas is slipping too. But you will still come up on a REAL Texan, who will pull onto the shoulder to let you pass. That is good/compassionate driving!

Well, now you know why Texans and Oklahomans dont get along so good. You damn Texans cant drive fast enough to stay out of peoples way!

Speed has nothing to do with BAD DRIVING. Oh, I didn't mention the almost being run into a guard rail by a diesel...oh forget it. You like it, you can live there. But, next time you drive somewhere--actually think about the drive. I like to enjoy my driving--and I am seldom under the speed limit, either.
I lived in Okinawa for three and half years also--that was heaven compared to OKC. They were good drivers who happened to drive fast and close to other drivers. Oklahoma seems to have a preponderance of REALLY BAD DRIVERS driving fast. Bad situation made worse.
Look around--am I lying?

That is the dumbest $#!t in the world. I drove through Texas a couple years back and whenever someone would turn out in front of me, WAAAAY in front of me, they would immediately pull off and drive on the shoulder. (Usually creating a big dust cloud and most often also creating a situation where one car was driving with a tire or two in the dirt and a tire or two on the pavement, swerving in and out of control, just barely staying where they were trying to stay and the other car overtaking them at high speed, now forced to pass within inches.)

If you have time to pull out in front of someone, then you have time to get up to speed. If you don't have time to pull out in front of someone and get up to speed...... WAIT!!!! You can turn after they pass. It works in the other 49 states. It should work in Texas too!

But, then again, half the dumb $#!t they do in Texas is done in a self-imposed attempt to stay "different" than everyone else. (And bigger too. WTF?)

I'll always give Texas some leeway (and the shoulder) because of their pro-2A stance. But, if they ever started letting criminals who got shot in victim's homes win lawsuits, I'm afraid I'd have to start putting them in the same boat as SoCal, and nobody wants that, not even Oklahoma. "Same boat as SoCal?...... Now that's just mean."

Wow, almost run into a guard rail by a diesel. Hmm, wonder if he was licenced in OK and lived here, or maybe somewhere else? (You know, since I-40, I-35, and I-44 carry interstate traffic from everywhere) Its not like that kinda stuff doesnt happen everywhere. I dont think OKC is the black hole of diesel accidents involving motorists and gaurd rails.

I think you would be hard pressed to find "good drivers" in any major metro area. I am sure that Atlanta, New York, Miami and even Houston are paragons of driving ability. I actually see about the same number of crashes here as I do in other cities when I travel. I am sure that statistics would show no major difference between OKC and any other place. Sorry you didnt like it here, glad you are in a place you enjoy now.

Joe, my wife learned to drive in OKC and we always are amazed at the dumb things people do. I have lived here for 32 years and am probably used to it, but if you ever want to drive in a bad driver city try New Orleans. I lived there for a year and in New Orleans you have to abide by the 10 second rule in order to avoid an accident, you have to wait ten seconds before you proceed on a green light to avoid the red light runners. As to OKC bad drivers, they are actually very good drivers, they are just avoiding all the potholes in the roads and the other person's car be damned, or their car needs repair and your nice car looks like it might be insured (1 in 4 in Oklahoma aren't so you have to choose your "victim" carefully)!

If housing is so cheap, why aren't more people insured drivers?

Didn't have time to look!
There were things I really liked about being near a big city--access to machine shops and stuff (I am a car guy). But the people I worked with in the AF at that time were ....special. And the drivers I encountered daily were --I think a good word is "aggressive". Maybe you don't see it but twenty years ago I did. I try to stay away from atalnta too! I blame it on carpetbaggers. People who don't like where they are at because of the people that live there. So they move somewhere else--but, lo and behold, it was those people that made their former cities so bad..... I try to signal early, stop gradually, not tailgate and most importantly---KNOW WHERE I AM GOING. You would think that last one would be obvious but it ain't. It is aggravating that as cars get better, the drivers seem to be getting worse! Oh my!!

I would venture to say that the people that own homes are insured, and those that don't are looking to them for an "accident". Some apartment dwellers (a) don't drive and go shanksmare; ( don't own cars © do own cars that breakdown frequently; (d) do own cars that they buy monthly insurance premiums for; (e) don't have insurance. Also, Oklahoma does not have mandatory vehicle safety inspection which amazes my wife as Russia does (first aid kit and fire extinguisher) I have seen Russian roads that make Oklahoma's look like the streets of Heaven, my wife constantly lauds our Oklahoma roads which is very humorous to me as I think they suck compared to adjacent states. Lifting a Minnesota joke, there are only two seasons in Russia, winter and road repair with which my wife heartily agrees.

Eventually this conversation is going to come full circle back to pie, and that's when I'm going to jump in.

Only in our little community would you hear all about Oklahoma driving on a thread titled "Russian Girls Are Amazing!"

Correction: I made a typo when starting the topic. its Russia Girls Are Amazing

Probably because we are spending all our extra cash on sudafed and associated other household goods to keep our meth cooking operation going. Or, we are buying our machine guns to keep the government at bay. Feel free to insert your favorite redneck cliche.

Hey everybody needs a hobby!

the individual in the above case would be abusing the idea. it's intended for drivers to do this without creating a hazard and most of the time you'll see it on the farm to market sideroads. often it's a farmer hauling stuff in his pickup. if there is a lot of gravel on the shoulder, one isn't doing the other a favor by pulling over and if one can't maintain the lane and drops off the pavement, that's a great way to create an accident. and, btw, the one pulling over is responsible for making sure the shoulder is clear of bridges
the above - pulling over on the shoulder - is a way for us texans to tell who's from oklahoma btw, as last i heard it's against the law in oklahoma to do this.

The Russian forum is truly unique...a thread about amazing Russian women morphs into an in depth discussion about driving the roads of Oklahoma including farmers in pick-ups.

Anybody crossed any difficult bridges lately? Maybe encountered a traffic intersection worth an honorable mention? How about an Overpass? Cloverleaf? Railroad crossing?

I've found the best way to avoid accidents here in the U.S. is to ignore all that "defensive driving" crap they taught us in driver's ed and drive like they do overseas. You drive as fast as you can, wherever you can, and if there's a spot where your car will fit, then you drive it there, sidewalk or not. And those lines on the road and lights up at the intersections... those are just suggestions.

In all seriousness, I'm still trying to teach my wife to drive here and in our neighborhood there are several 5-way and even a 6-way intersection. Very fun!




Makes me miss the round-a-bouts! (Traffic circles for all of you "proper" drivers.)

Well we did have a bull hauler overturn on a freeway onramp this afternoon. It was funny watching the Sheriff's dept. bring in their horses, saddle up, and lasso those dogies. Then of course, this is the environment that we are bringing our Russian women to, not only Bob and I but others before us and hopefully many afterwards. And for Slim the pie is great, home made with native grown peaches, lemon meringue to die for, and the huckleberry pie, well you would never leave Oklahoma without sampling it and going to the machine gun shoot down in SE Oklahoma. I took my wife to a gun show last weekend and she was horrified. I explained that purchases from a dealer take 5 days now (not like the good old days where I could walk my gun to the next table and buy some ammo and load up once I hit the parking lot) but there were many folks there that were not selling under a dealer's license, and it is my understanding it is delivery on purchase. She was truly frightened about the way people in the US can get guns, not mentioning the flea market and swap meets and classifieds in the paper.

That actually would be quite nice. Last time we had some cattle on the freeway it was about a 5 1/2 hour clean-up. I guess they don't like the idea of having 1200lb beasts running across the road where 2400lb cars are travelling 70mph. It would be quite funny to see the Sheriff's dept. out there on horseback working the lassos... I don't even think they have horses. And don't get me started on the city's horses.... "Don't touch my horse again or I'll put you in jail!"



I bought a 10/22 from Bass Pro a few weeks back and didn't get it for 5 days. I was supposed to be able to take it home with me but they said the FBI/ATF name check sometimes gets delayed and I'd have to wait until they called back. What a bummer. They said it wasn't because of a waiting period or anything like that, just had to get approval on my name check. Last I knew a 4473 didn't require a name check, but it's been quite a while since I bought a gun at the store, so maybe they do now. Patriot Act and all... wouldn't surprise me one bit. I know we stopped trusting our citizens a long time ago but I didn't realize buying a .22 semi-auto rifle was going to lop me into the same bin as those buying Tec-9s and AK knockoffs. And not that the people buying those legally use them in a lot of crimes.

I'm just going to stop typing because I could type all day about this topic. Your wife was scared about how easily we can get guns and I'm scared how easily people willingly give up their rights to have them. Arrghh! Done for now.

Yeah I've got guns all over the house but the only one I have loaded up is a 12 gauge winchester defender for home invaders. My wife advised me that in Russia you can only get a sporting firearm (read rifle shotgun) after a police background check and an interview with a psychologist. I have seen folks at the gun shows that wouldn't be given a gun by a psychologist if there were a 100 raving gun toting maniacs across the street firing at them. I did find an interesting casing while wandering in the taiga in Russia, all aluminum thought it was a shotgun hull, and a friend checked out for me , it was a pistol designed to fire rubber bullets, but the casing looks about the size of a 20 gauge. Wouldn't want to fire that with my skinny ole wrists. Well count me in with the gun huggers and barrel suckers (an old Marine friend of mine coined that one on me). Don't hunt anymore Mama couldn't stand it if little Bambi was a trophy in the freezer, so my guns just sit around and rust away. But she does want me to take her out to shoot (and her being a lieutenant in the Russian army) thought I would start her out with a single action 22 revolver, not much kick, safe, and graduate her up to a 357 with 38 loads or a 9.