You could find a wife like this in the US that will take all your money and expect you to give her everything she wants.

I thought this was about why Russian or women from any other country than USA were amazing. One of the great things about women from other countries is because they are not like American women.

I believe the thread was about "Russia girls are amazing." Not about stereotyping an entire gender from a single country.

Well... isn't saying that "Russia girls are amazing" stereotyping?

Uh oh...here we go again!

Please don't derail this thread with stories of how awful American women are - this is really an interesting thread! (Even if we are not all awful!!)

I was never comfortable with the topic anyway, for that reason. I think my Russian girl is amazing, and I know there are others around here who think their Russian girls are amazing, but that's not to say there aren't some amazing Filipinas or Canadians or Germans or Americans, etc, etc. I think Russian women as a whole have some social traits that make them unique, some of which I suppose could be considered "amazing," but I also know that people are people and Russian women aren't exempt from this rule.

Anyway, I can't complain too loudly about positive stereotypes. I mean, all Asians are good at math. That's a good thing, right?

you're right, that should have it's own thread

Oh Charles, if I hadn't already seen enough of your posts to know a little bit of how you operate! I'll tell you what, you start it, and I will get my flame-thrower ready!

Now, back on topic(s)...

A greater risk than wasting a year of one's life is spending a week or two with a Russian woman and then proposing to her. I see all kinds of wacky stuff on these boards by guys (like sense1) who are willing to throw caution to the wind and insist they're simply true romantics who are trusting their instincts. The original poster and his wife deserve credit for taking the time to get to know each other before making such a serious commitment. In terms of pure risk, I'd bet that they'll be together long after the guys who propose to women they can't have a conversation with sans interpreter, the guys who propose after an internet correspondence + week's vacation together, and those who simply don't know their partners. They risk being used for a green card, bought up on domestic violence charges to expedite residency, or worse...

FWIW, being able to live for a year in Russia is impossible for most of us who have careers, but if you marry a stranger from a (relatively) poor land, don't come crying to papa when the blindfold is ripped from your face and you realize you are a latter-day version of the pheasant who swam across the river w/the fox on his back, only to have the fox eat him upon arriving at the opposite bank.

If you look at the OP's history, they've been in a relationship since 2004, and thats long enough to make any comparison to most of us impossible even without the year together.

As I said, living together in Russia with the comfort of her native language and surroundings, tells very little about her success in the USA.

The rest of what you said is common sense so I have no further comment except one week together (24/7) is equal to dating and American woman for several months if you consider that dating might only entail meeting once or twice a week for 4 or 5 hours on a date...so you should consider that to be fair.

I should have said Kazan Tiger, not OP. My error.

Mmmm... I disagree. One week's vacation doesn't even bring you beyond the euphoric stage. And one year in Russia is a good test for the USC in the relationship, if not necessarily for the RC. Remember, it's not just the Russian adjusting to the US; it's the USC adjusting to living with a Russian as well.
The kind of understand that comes with living in Russia for a long period of time can go a long way.

For me moving to Russia for a couple of years isn't a sacrifice; it's actually more advantageous. Would you rather enter the NYC job market right now with a liberal arts degree and be forced to work for free while also waitressing/doing retail to pay for skyhigh rents in the ghetto, or would you rather go to Russia and teach english and make 30 dollars an hour outside of your job doing tutoring and translation? For me the choice was obvious--Russia is actually the more advantageous and sensible choice for me than entering the US workforce right now.

Plus, if you're with someone for several months and your dates are only lasting 4 or 5 hours... I'd say that things are not going so well for you.

I agree of Russians being pretty ,smart,sweet and mostly loyal...I am
Russian girl myself,well
Soviet,since my dad is Georgian..
I should say most girls in Russia,no matter from big city or small expect states to be way cooler than it actually is..and when I say"cool" i mean economy.
Most girls believe that marrying foreign fiance their life quality will increase dramatically.I was no exception thinking so..and I met my american Prince and thanks God he is young ,sexy,smart-the best Man in the world!
My plan was never to live here,I worked in Europe for years and thats where i thought I"d end up ..
Thanks to my Karma i met my great Man ..So i ended up waiting for my visa and coming here.
I am honestly confessing that I imagined this country to be different..More rich,more easy..
I had sort of dissapointament with how much people work here.I worked in 16 countries and never seen people working harder!
Here most of people have 2 weeks vacation a year..whereas in europe we have over 30days...
It was hard to adjust to the stress of bills and reality..I loved my man enough though to go through this..
I am greatful i live in North of Ca..From what i saw so far in other states life is even more difficult..
My point is make sure your fiancee knows exactly what your life quality is like..what your bills are and going to be once you add her up to insurances and stuff..
she should know as much as possible.I wish you guys loving girls that will work with you through hard times ...
Hopefully we all get to point where our russian illussions will be true:)wish you guys to make your girls feel happy:)
I myself am happy,ive got the best friend in my husband,that is more than i could ever dream of:)

When people are not yet married, any amount oif time together is a "dating" situation, and not the same as a real marriage. Plenty of folks who've lived together before marriage we'll attest to that fact. Things are just different when there is no full commitment as in the legal and emotional bond of marriage.

Whether seven days or one month, I think the wise man or woman meeting someone overseas for a possible serious relationship tends to make the use of time more efficient and revealing than if you're going to the movies or club with your USA date.

As far as only dating a few times a week in the USA is concerned, I'm not in the same age group as you, and we middle aged folks tend to be very wrapped up in our kids, careers, homes, dogs, hobbies, friends and so forth...in simple terms--very busy! So dating can be a situation where you're fitting it in when there's time. When I was dating only US women in my age range, I was amazed how hard it was to get them out on a date even knowing that they liked me and wanted to see me. So I guess it depends of what age group...and some relationships just unfold more slowly than others.

I think one year in Russia is serious overkill if the ultimate plan is to live in America. And the time and money invested in that one year could go towards costs to travel to and set up a home together in the USA. I think Kazan's situation dictated he invest extra time to be with his fiancee in her country but usually the mission is to get to the USA as soon as possible to get married and begin the long process of building a life together. For people over 50, I'd say the quicker the better...who knows how long you've got?

Life is not harder in most other places in the US, it is probably a bit easier than in places like California, New York, and other upscale places to live and work. The pace of life is much faster, and the cost of living is much higher in the upscale places. Many places in the south and in the center of the country have a much slower pace of life, and the cost of living is much smaller. I think housing in your area probably costs $500,000 or more for the same house I can buy here for $190,000. I would have to double my salary to make the same amount of money in California. Here is a quick rundown of the difference between San Fransico, CA and Oklahoma City, OK:

If you move from Oklahoma City OK to San Francisco CA...

Groceries will cost: 62.541% more
Housing will cost: 240.567% more
Utilities will cost: 5.584% less
Transportation will cost: 18.769% more
Healthcare will cost: 26.918% more


The economics of living in the USA are not the same from one coast to the other, it all depends on where you live.

For me at 22 with more connections and friends in Russia than in the US, it's even more economically feasible for me to move there than stay in the USA. It all depends on your situation in life. It's not overkill if you'd want to be in Russia even without a fiance/e waiting for you there.

But even if the ultimate goal is to live in the USA, how exactly do you prepare your Russian for life in the USA, especially if they can't get a visa to visit? It seems like there is no real good way to get them acclimated before they move in that case.



It all depends on what'd make you happy... I'd pay the extra money to live in a place like San Francisco.

Sure you would, so would a lot of people, but the point is that a person who makes $50K a year in Oklahoma/Texas/Kansas would need to make $100K to equal the same salary in California. There are a lot of people who cant make that kind of money in California. The point I am making is that for a person to move from a foriegn country straight into one of the highest cost of living markets in America, life might seem harder, and one could easily think that life must be even harder for the people who dont live there, but that is not necessarily the case due to the economics of cost of living.

Damn that edit timeout!

To put it in real terms, the people in San Fran who are in my profession make about 40% more than me in base pay. But they need to make 100% more to equal my salary in real terms. So, from the start they are already 60% down, and we havent taken into account the cost of housing and other factors. My standard of living here in po-dunk Oklahoma is many times higher than theirs. I have friends that come and visit from San Diego, and they cant believe I live in the house I live in at the price I paid, and to top it off, the housing bubble is no where near the size that it is in the upscale parts of the country. So, if someone can afford to live there, then by all means you should because it is a beautiful place.

Well, people coming here on K-1 visas aren't coming here and carving a life out of nothing; they're coming and entering a life that someone else has already made. So they're not going to struggle as much as people who come here on their own and have to make their own way.

New York is really expensive. Even when I go to my mother's house in the Philadelphia suburbs or my dad's house (which is like 2 hours from Miami) I'm shocked at how much cheaper things are. But the ability to have everything that I want at my fingertips and the fact that i don't have to have a car far outweighs all these other economic factors. Plus, when your hobbies are basically going out to see European DJs, shopping, and going to art galleries, well, the middle of the country (outside of Chicago) is not really the place to be. I just feel an overwhelming sense of ennui whenever I'm not a major cosmopolitan area. SPb is pretty much my threshold of how small and provincial a city i'd live in and still be able to function.

Believe me, I understand what you are saying when talking cultural things to do! But we have some here, they are just fewer and farther between. But I am with you on St. Pete, I freaking love that place! It is one of the most beautiful and regal places I have been. When I retire (god willing) I would love to spend my time split between St. Pete and Sochi. Hopefully someday I will have the language skills to make it a possibility.

SPb is my absolute favorite city. And it took me one hour to find a job there.

I met my wife in STPB so it holds fond memories and it is a special city. We stayed at a neat little hotel right in the middle of downtown...we could walk to everything. The hotel was VERY Russian...no one spoke English. I liked the restaurants nearby and we were close to a nice cafe. The weather was excellent the entire time. It's a romantic city to be sure.

I'm thinking we'll go back there for one of our anniversaries.

I don't live in San Francisco, but I live just south, and there's nowhere else in the United States I'd rather live. Most of my salary gets eaten up by the cost of living, there's no way I can afford a house (even with the downturn in housing prices), but there's just no describing the quality of life. I used to live in Denver, and the pace of life is actually much slower here. People are friendlier, there's so much more to do (I loved the Rocky Mountains, but I've got the Sierra's right next door PLUS the ocean), and the climate is perfect.

Anyone can live here if they're willing to sacrifice other things. Yes it's harder if you're in an occupation that doesn't pay a lot, but people do it. In fact, I wonder how some people really can do it. I see minimum wage workers in fast food restaurants, and they're not kids out here. They're adults. I always want to ask them how they can afford to live here.

You liked the restaurants? I think they're terrible. And you were very lucky to have excellent weather; usually it's terrible as well. Never leave the house without an umbrella.

Let's not forget Oklahoma is in the middle of nowhere.
In California you are a few hours drive from the ski resorts (mountains, snow), ocean, Disneyland, and most importantly an incredibly temperate climate with few extremes. And you can't beat the fresh fruits and vegetables grown right here in our backyards. I'll have to agree with Mox, no other place I'd rather live than in California.
And if you like the slow life and low prices, the central valley is the place to be. Housing can be had for $200,000.

Again this thread has taken a few interesting turns!

I would have to agree with eekee that spending one week with someone 24/7 is not the same as dating someone for several months. Not to mention, but you are jet lagged for most if not all of that trip and fuzzy thinking prevails! Some advice my Mom gave me a long time ago is to know a person for at least a year before you make any big decisions because in that year you will see them in all kinds of different situations (and they you) and can get beyond that euphoric phase as eekee so eloquently put it.

Of course there are couples that meet and instantly know they are right for each other, of course there are couples that meet on-line and then have a brief meeting together and work out - and of course there are couples that date for long periods and still do not work out - it's just that couples who have been dealing with each other face to face have better tools in their toolkit to deal with the unpredictableness of life.

Obviously, most people can't take a year away from financial, family, etc. obligations and fly around the world to settle into a completely different culture to get to know their potential mates better. I have to admit, that if I had met my husband on-line and come to India for a week or two to meet him, we might still have gotten married, but our transition to a new life together in the US would be much MUCH more difficult for both of us than it will be since I have spent 3 years in his culture. We have both changed in this process so far and will continue to do so as we shift into a different culture together. Seeing him and being with him over time in his own culture helps me to understand where he is coming from, why he thinks certain ways, does certain things, etc. To expect him to go to the US and just 'become American' is un-realistic, but I do expect him to change - that is impossible to avoid.

I guess my point is, don't underestimate the depth and influence of anyone's native culture and mentality and don't overestimate the power of love or an 'easier' life in building a solid and lasting relationship. My question for everyone (both for those with spouses here and those preparing for their spouses/fiancees), how are you preparing for/dealing with this shift in both of your lives? What has been easy, and what has been challenging? How have you, as the USC or Russian changed for the better or worse?

... and then there are millions upon millions of people who have never met their spouse before marriage, such as is common in India, and very many of those marriages work out just fine.

Its not worth predicting or worrying about other peoples 'relationship worthiness'. Just get on with life and let other people be.

Sure, some of them work out fine, but in a culture where that is the norm, are there really any options if it doesn't work out?

Sorry you took what I wrote that way Chuckles, it was not how I meant it to come across. It was not about 'relationship worthiness', it was an honest question about how others make their marriages work in a cross-cultural setting. I am curious to see how other people are dealing with it because no matter how any of our relationships evolved initially, we have to deal with things that other couples don't when they are both in/from the US. We are getting ready to move to the US, and it is something I am thinking about right now.

As far as Indian arranged marriages go, it is the mentality of both sides of the couple and there is a LOT of family support to help make them work. Even with that, Indian couples where one member grew up in the US and the other in India face the same obstacles that everyone else faces and divorce is on the rise...

I think everyone on this thread is over-analyzing a tad bit. Your opinions and ideas are well thought out Carolyn, and I apologize if it seems I singled you out.

However, in my opinion, you just cannot predict these things. I am amazed how people meet and still manage to have sucessful relationships. You are right about Indian couples with the family support and all helping them out. Still... you can talk about it and theorize about what it takes to have a strong relationship until you are blue in the face, but ultimatly you don't know what is in peoples hearts and minds.

IMHO you're putting too much emphasis on a woman's ability to make a go at life in the US.

If what you share with your wife is love and not some facsimile, it's not that big of a sacrifice. I don't mean to shrug off the difficulty of making such a monumental transition, but in my experience it was just one of many compromises and sacrifices my wife and I made that were necessary to make our relationship work. I will say, however, that without love we would have failed within the first six months.

I dated a lot of Russian women living in the US before I met my wife, almost all arrived here on K1s and divorced after a few years. Never did I hear the excuse that the divorce resulted from difficulty in adjusting to life here; rather, most women married puppylove-struck guys whom they liked and trusted and with whom they hoped they could one day love. (And those were the decent women, others were far more calculating.) Some time after arrival, stress and loneliness - not love - entered her life and things fell apart. The curious thing is that the guy in such failed relationships always has some excuse - her friends whispered lies in her ears, she missed her mom too much, she had difficulty learning English, etc., etc. He can't accept the simple fact that she never loved him and never could.

I think Kazan Tiger did it right - love was in his equation before he filed the K1, he won the battle on her turf, he did things in their proper order and took the time to make sure it was genuine. Was four years too much? I don't know, but I'd put a lot more stock in his chances than the guys who spend a week with a girl who can't speak English and believe her when she says "I love you, too."

Thanks for dissing my home state sat, thats very nice of you. I went out of my way to not dis california, but I guess your just an A$$ today. Oh, wait, how is today different from any other day?

Lets not foget that Oklahoma is in the middle. 2 hour flight to all 3 coasts and the same to the Rocky mountains. The only thing that really sucks is the unpredictable and often extremely severe weather. To each his own I guess Sat, and I am happy you enjoy california.

Bob, you forgot to say that is a short drive to Santa Fe (now mostly inhabited by Yankees and Californios who wanted some of the SW experience, more out of staters living in Santa Fe than natives who can't aford the housing with the price increases caused by the immigrants) or a short drive to Galveston with great drive on beaches and low density. I turned down a job in LA that was more than double my salary with much discussion with my wife when we price compared all the differences and the driving difficulties (my wife loves to drive). So we stay in Oklahoma where costs are less, but we are both looking to move to Houston, warmer weather, less tornadic activity, big Russian community, and 60 miles to Galveston. If your woman loves you and not a fanciful dream of the country with streets paved of gold, she will endure the differences and together you can make a pleasurable life here. We are a mobile society so its not to say we can move elsewhere. And yeah Oklahoma is not the cultural center of the universe but we do have a Van Cliburn silver medalist here who is an artist in residence from Russia, who is a wonderful pianist and he stays here for some reason, giving us occasional memorable piano performances, I haven't heard from the left or right coast whether they have some one like this to give cultural enrichment to our ladies and ourselves.

You could double my current salary and I wouldn't live in LA. I love Northern California. Southern California is a different story. There are some nice areas, but for the most part LA is a cesspool.

So, I won't be seeing Kool Kirk & Naughty Nadya taking over La La Land on a future episode of TMZ?

Well, she wants to go to Disneyland and see Hollywood, so I suppose at some point we'll be down that way. You might see us on Cops.

I don't think there's a proper one to use in your case. Man, that must be some good "willingness for affection."

Plain and simple, this is a girl that is "financially motivated" and even if you two have had a good time together during your visits and you think there's something still there, the fact that you've been paying her to act like your fiancee is too much.

There are sooooooo many red flags just in your post above. And that's just what you wrote. There's probably a million more over the last couple of years that you've chosen to ignore. I realize that you want to believe that she's the girl for you and it seems like she is and you've gone through all of this stuff just to try to be together. But, dude, there are 48,000 more on another website and you can pretty much custom search for one until you find one that's perfect. I'll bet you a dime to a dollar that if you search for your perfect girl and then offer her $600/month, she'll be willing to take another grand or two from you over the course of the next couple years to say she's your fiancee.

Basically, you've been supporting this girl (and her son) for over a year. So what if she showed you some affection? Women have been doing that since the beginning of time. If you want to believe in international love and are willing to pay all this money, then you are a nice guy. Naive, but nice. To me, that means you need to find a nicer girl because as mox said, Elvira's not going to change once she gets here. If she's willing to take all the money now, you have no idea what she's going to take once she gets here.

I sincerely hope there's a way to work it out for you, but the fact is, it's already "not" working and it's not going to improve just because you pay for her to come here and live with you. You can hope and dream all day, but reality is reality. Find a nice girl and spend your money on her. See what she does. You may just be pleasantly surprised at her "willingness for affection." GOOD LUCK!



My (then) fiancee was like this as well. She now takes money effortlessly and threatens to pull my teeth if I don't give it to her. (In truth, she's very good about not taking money that we need for bills and stuff. But, she's got it calculated pretty well exactly how much "liquid" we have.)



I won't go so far as to say a lot of the Russian girls in Korea are prostitutes, but like our poster above, a lot of the girls there have no problem engaging in sexual relations with a guy if it benefits them financially. I knew a lot of girls that would pal around with a guy they had no interest what-so-ever in, and weren't even attracted to, all day long while he bought them new clothes, cds, jewelry, paid for their dental visits, etc. and then they'd head to the motel for a quickie. Other girls would meet a guy for lunch and coffee and after he'd buy them a phone card or two, they'd give him a knobber for "payback."

Call these girls prostitutes and they were insulted.

But, like women everywhere, there's a thin line between using what they've got to get what they want and actually charging a price up front for sexual relations. Personally, I have a lot of respect for prostitutes. They've been the most honest women I've known! At least they're up front about their intentions and actions. And like I always tell my buddies, "If you get a ride in a taxi cab and the meter's not on.... it's just a car."

In all actuality, there are Russian prostitutes in Korea but there are more girls who are there to work in clubs as hostesses, waitresses, dancers, singers, etc. Some of them end up being prostitutes, but a lot of times it's more of a "gray area" with the girl not technically being a "prostitutka" but making a whole lot more money and having sex with a whole lot more guys than what she normally would. Prostitution? You decide!



My wife is right there with you. She's not exactly happy about living in this "big village" of Cincinnati. But, when your hobbies are basically going out to see European DJs, shopping, and going to art galleries, there's not really anywhere in the U.S. that's conducive to this type of lifestyle, mid-America or otherwise. This type of lifestyle is actually pretty expensive here. Not too many people can afford to live that type of lifestyle, and if they do, they either live in the ghetto with six roommates (not a husband or wife) or they have that endless supply of money they call "Daddy."

Stay in Russia, eekee. You'll be much happier. My wife has been here about a year-and-a-half, and she's still not happy with our lifestyle because she can't basically go out to see European DJs, go shopping, and go to art galleries. If you're able to do that now, then keep on doing it. Don't look back. With any luck, maybe you'll see her there someday too.

I'm not in Russia... I'm in NYC. And i actually dislike a lot of things about it. That's why I'm leaving for Russia.

That's where I keep telling my wife to go! (Russia, not NYC.)

I actually have some friends who immigrated to Connecticut (Stamford) from Russia about a year ago who are about to go back because they can't stand it here. I really hope that Ira will be happy here with me. This country has so many problems that I'm not often happy here (but, then again, I also watch way too much news and get way too involved in political discourse).

Of course, I'll do what I can for her, but changing America is really slow work...

Z

If you're in NYC I can see why Russia looks so good!

You and I don't see eye to eye on the NRA sc, but on this post...WORD!

Hey brother Mox, whenever I can get you to back me on something...I take it!

This is an interesting thread.

My father married a ukrainian woman 21 years his junior about 8 years ago. Although she came to the states on a K1 visa, she can't understand why I would want to marry a Turkish man (or any man) who didn't make atleast $100,000 a year. She actually told my father that she thinks I "could do better." The nerve. I quickly put her in her place and reminded her just how she got here.

And did I mention that she doesn't work and has a full-time live-in nanny to take care of her and my father's two children? Ooooh, don't get me started.

Russian girls loooooooooooooooove nice things!

Your father's getting something out of the deal. I think I know what it is. As an aside, a lot of Russian women travel to the Turkish resorts and often encounter the unpleasant and crude advances of some Turkish men. I suspect that may influence her judgment of your boyfriend.

Very true. I couldn't figure out why I was getting five requests on facebook from strange turkish men who wanted to be my friend until i realized the same thing was happening to all of my Russian girlfriends.

I sure hope he's getting something out of the deal - and it's certainly not a meal on the table because she doesn't cook.