Hey everyone just wanted to say russian girls are amazing! I just remember dating American girls and then meeting the love of my life who changed me alot! After meeting her I would never date an American Girl again! And in a couple months we will be married! So does anyone here want to talk about how amazing russian girls are?

You are preaching to the choir here!
I believe everyone here has the same attitude. I can only speak for myself, but my Tanya is beautiful, strong minded, and honest.
She has learned how to make do with less and has faced a lot of adversity in her life. I believe that is a major reason Russian women have such strength of character and sense of humor. Not to mention that they take a lot of pride in their appearance! In dress, makeup, and demeanor, they are unbeatable. I suppose that there are American girls with the same characteristics but compared to the Russian girls, it's like finding a needle in a haystack!

You know who are really amazing? Pitcairn Island girls.

Oh wait...is it April 2nd already? Damn.

And it would be posssible to, easily, date every Pitcairn babe (or lack there of.)
Oh damn... It is 2 April! Awww. No more fun?

Waiting for the American girls with Russian guys............


I will take the bait and chime in though... I also "prefer" Russian girls but, being a truly "equal opportunity" kind of guy, I have to say that I wouldn't exclude dating a girl from anywhere. (Save maybe the Pitcairn Islands, of course.) That said, I couldn't see myself being very serious with a girl from home ever again.

wrong!

oh just wait till the american women find this thread!

and what am i, chopped liver?

Ekee, admit it: You would never date an American woman. See? You're just one of the guys here!

LOL.....just like some american women prefer non-american men

True, but I'd never date a Russian one either.

Now, those Pitcairn ladies, on the other hand...

Minor detail!


They have the softest, most orange skin in the world. Once you've had the orange skin, there's just no going back.

We all love you Eekee!

That's very sweet of you I hope Alla does not read this statement!

Careful with those Pitcairn ladies mox, they are just looking for a green card! I know inbred women like them are hawt and all... but just watch yourself buddy!

Yeah, she can be the jealous type. But she is more an anti-internet type, so I should be okay!

Thanks Chuckles, it's good advice. Especially considering that green is their favorite color. The Miami Dolphins are worshiped as Gods by the Pitcairnese.


Same here. I think the fact that she's very internet-adverse may just save my life.

I am not so lucky. I am stalked on the internet by my guy. "So I googled you today and I found..."

That is why I do not post any names.

It's a good idea. Both Nadya and I are stalked by her ex-bf, who likes to post her on scammer sites, and my name as her scamming partner. This is the biggest reason she hates the internet. I've managed to scrub her name from most sites, but there are still a few that I'll need to do a "cease and decist" order when we're married.

i'm sure some from this forum might appreciate the humor in this thread of mine

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=119607

Yeah I read that, it was pretty funny.

Yes, I am a card carrying member of the "I Love Russian Women Club." But I'd temper that by saying I've met some very unpleasant RW as well. You can't just walk up to the Russian "woman tree' and pick one at random and walk away a happy man.

When I first decided to look to the former Soviet Union for a wife, I held the same strict criterion many rookie American men do (beyond the obvious age range criteria): must speak good English; no kids under 24 years old, and must live in Moscow or St. Petersburg or similar big city.

From the few ladies I found within this group of prospective wives, I was unable to really connect with and/or had problems with them. A good grasp of English brings good and bad effects (elitist attitude maybe) and limits communication of the non verbal type that women with little or no English must bring to bear in order to have a relationship with you. You can tell a lot about someone who's willing to take a big risk and meet you knowing only very little English.

Having no kids may indicate selfishness or difficulty with close relationships and their personalities may lack the nurturing and care-giving qualities that being a mother can develop in someone. Of course, I speaking of women beyond the reasonable child bearing years (say after 38 or so).

And some big city girls have very high expectations of wealth and a super exciting life in America....maybe the kind of woman you can never fully please regarding money and material things. And persuading them to give up there life and job in Moscow is a tougher sell than if we're talking about leaving a smaller Siberia area.

After several attempts to find a woman meeting my original criteria in only the big cities of he FSU, I gave up. I had to go deeper into Russia to find my special woman. And, importantly, I had to rethink my criterion for a wife. My wife spoke almost no English when I first met her. At that time her son was only 16. And she lives in Siberia many hours from Moscow or SPB. For me, the key was to find a woman totally ready to give up her Russian life and connections in order to be with me...and I found her where many American men would not travel to.

So when an American man asks me about finding a Russian bride, I recommend avoiding the "low apples on the Russian woman tree," and take the risk and accept the hardship of the longer journey into places like Siberia. They may well get lucky with the big city women, but I think there's something special about the Russian "village girls" that seem so perfect as a wife and life partner. They have a sort of innocence and unspoiled virtue and positive attitude that I had given up hoping to find.

For my brother comrades who found their perfect wife in the big cities...good show! You saved yourself a lot of struggle and grief not going into the hinder lands. And there are always the elements of good timing and good luck and good chemistry that defies any social or demographic variables. Or maybe you're very rich and live in LA or NYC. Whatever the case, I'm not knocking your road to success...just sharing my viewpoints based on my experiences...and suggesting an alternative plan.

I have several close female friends from Siberia. They're super sweet girls.

One thing that I found interesting in my personal interactions with Russian girls during what I like to call my "social experiment" in Korea (two tours, one in '99-'00, another in '03-'04) was the first go 'round they were all naive, shy girls from small-town Russia and the second time, a little over three years later, they were all experienced, "battle hardened" world travellers from "big city in Russia", even those from the small towns.

What changed was they had several years (and hundreds of thousands of man-hours) to learn the "system" of interacting with foreign men and had evolved into something a little different. They were still the same girls at the core, but the outside operations were different. Most had become "business" women (whether looking for a husband or simply a good source of income) whereas before, most were there to simply see the world and have a good time.

It's really no different than what happens here when you take people from small towns and they move to the big city for college or a new job. What some of you may notice though is your girl, wheter from a small town or big city, is going to change to her new environment, good or bad. There is a difference though in the gratefulness of a girl from a small town and a girl from the city. There's no expectation from the small town girl. The city girl, on the other hand, may expect that you'll spend every penny you have on keeping her happy and getting her everything she wants and desires. The small town girl could be grateful that you bought her this or that. But, she could quickly become the big city girl since everywhere in America is the "big city" compared to some of the villages in Siberia.

Bottom line, be honest and up front with what you have and what you're able to provide. Be sure to include her in what you're doing and what your capabilities are. And be flexible.... she's going to change several times after she gets here......

EXACTLY!

Did you know that the same Russian girls you and everyone on her loves so much can be found right here in the US? They come with legal papers, money, know how to drive, US education, etc... Ever been to New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago, and Sacramento just to name a few places with populations well over 100,000 Russian speakers? You could have used the internet to connect to those girls right? Picked them out of a catalog right? Not exactly...because those girls don't need a green card, aren't looking for "stability", and not willing to sacrifice their interests.
Likewise, plenty of American girls have all those great qualities that Russian women in Russia have. But for the exact same reasons as the Russian girls living in the US, they have no interest in a green card, money, or stability, because they already have and thus will not lower their standards in terms of finding an older, fatter, and balder man....

Wow both of you are starting to sound like the internet is not really what has built your relationship with your women. Hence my argument about what makes real relationships in the thread my wife started back in the day, i.e., in person instead of virtual.

There are LOTS of women in the US who are willing to lower their standards for an older/fatter/balder man... provided he comes with a very large bank account.

Sorry for not being clear in my first post, I agree completely. Green card, money, and stability were the three factors I focused in on in terms of triggering "lower" standards.

Okay first of all, the 19th century called and wants its Russian Bride "Catalog" back. I didn't pick my girl out of a catalog and nobody else here did either. I didn't pick my girl out of a lineup either. Many of us met online through a little chat mechanism called instant messaging. Others met through a dating service, where the women are just as actively looking as the men. And everyone here that's filed an I-129F has met their woman in person. So cut the looking-down-your-nose bullshit out and know what the hell you're talking about before you start blathering crap like this. Just because this is something that your very massive brain cannot conceive of doesn't make it any less real than your relationship.

Second of all, your implication that our ye olde Sears&Robuck Catalogue Brides are seeking green cards because they're not already here is what I like to call "the crazy logic." It's whatchacall circular and stuff.



Hold on a sec, let me grab a beverage so I can do a spit take. Okay, ready now. *Spit!* WHAAAA?!?!?! Of course we're not saying the internet has built our relationship with our woman. I'm not sure anyone here has said the internet built our relationship. Real, human connection built our relationship. The medium is irrelevant. If you're trying to tell me that your relationship is any more real than mine or anyone elses here, then you're much more of a pompous аss than I thought before. You have absolutely nothing to back these claims up with other than your own bias and sample size of yourself.

Well Sat, if nothing else, you are predictable...

I heartily agree with Mox and Wissooner. In fact, I knew that Sat would chime in as a - advocate. I want to see if this thread gets as big as the last one that he, or she, or ex-she, or both started that ran for weeks. I think that he just takes a contrary position regardless of what he/she/them really thinks. It does keep our Forum the most interesting one in this site though

Satellite what makes you think every russian girl wants to move to the usa? Alot of Russian girls actually enjoy living in Russia! I am not old fat o bald and actually met my fiance in the USA! (Just turned 20) I also think sometimes a long distance relationshiop makes it that much stronger! It gives it another dimension!

This is why I lurk in this forum, folks.


I receive PMs and e-mails from Alex saying, 'so, I was in your inbox today and I'm just alerting you to the fact that you've received new e-mails/PMs but they'll show up as 'read' because I read them'.

Or he'll text me to say, 'hey so you're meeting up with your parents next week? Your dad's booked a hotel' and I'll reply, 'what?!'

*turns lurk mode back on*

I think you give him way too much credit. Remember, he's "the smartest guy in the room." He's come down from the mountain to impart wisdom on us undeserving masses, not actually engage in any kind of reasonable discussion.

I agree that it keeps things more interesting though.

For the record I met my wife the same way you did, instant messaging online chat, so we are no different.

As for the "dating services" if that is more politically correct to say rather than catalog, what exactly are those women saying? If you read my post again you will notice three things (1) green card; (2) stability; and (3) money. You were only offended by the green card part.

You are hypocrite. Look at what you wrote. You agree with me that internet didn't build your relationship and then you say the medium used to build your relationship is irrelevant. Well that medium as far as I could remember in my wife's thread was that the internet is used to build real relationship. And I responded were are all anonymous posters until we do meet in person and engage in a real interpersonal relationship. And now we are finally in agreement that of course in person is what is needed for a real relationship.

I completely agree. I am only concerned about the 100,000 or so Slim says are in online catalogs dying to marry and leave Russia. What is up with those ladies?

For the record I was 22 when we got married. As far as I can tell I am not bald, fat, or rich, yet I still wrote what I did because it was my observation of the overall picture. As for the long distance relationship, I have mixed feelings on what that does. It certainly preserves a lot of relationships because if you don't "date" every week, you have less chance to show off your "bad sides". Next thing you know 2 years has gone by and your "fiancée" is here in the USA with a 90 day window to get married. Kind of hard to end it all at this point, plus the logistics of the situation makes it hard to. Of course there are exceptions, both Tiger and I spent many consecutive months living in Russia.

I lived in Russia too, but of course my situation is a lot different than anyone else's in this thread.

The distance part blows. I'd rather not have that dimension.

Official card-carrying member of the "lower standards" club. (Older, fatter, balder nailed it right on the head too. Good job!)

And to play advocate as well, I'm in 100% agreement with Satellite on this one. Guys, be honest, are you not getting a little bit better deal by "going global?" Come on. Most of you have already traded-in an ex spouse or two. And the girls, even the ones with the great jobs and great lives and blah, blah, blah... none of them can say that their life in Russia is guranteed to be better than their potential life here with your old, fat, bald @$$.

I wish the "hey, don't call my girl a mail-order bride" stuff would just stop.

"Call her what you want, you're the sucker for not getting one yourself." (Said to a co-worker of mine who likes to poke fun at me for being married to a smokin-hot, intelligent young woman who also likes to cook and clean and do all types of wild sexual stuff.... just because she's a "mail-order bride." Meanwhile, he's kissing the ### of a 50-year-old overweight smoker who came straight out of the trailer park on her way to waffle house.... and I'm less of a man??? Come on!!!)

Guys, lighten up. Be happy that your "mail-order bride" decided to chance her green card on you and not one of the other old fat bald guys.

You're not going to change people's opinions. The only thing that really matters is that you and your girl know what time it is. Oooh. Gotta go. Deadline for filing is soon. Gotta go buy her some more jewelry so she won't leave me. DO I REALLY CARE???? Should you?

I wish I had time now to chime in on this thread since it's nearing fisticuffs... I'll throw my two kopeks in tonight.

Well tip me over with a feather.


When it's being used (as Satellite used it) as a pejorative, it's demeaning and furthers a demeaning stereotype. It's even worse when used as a pejorative within our own community.


Nothing wrong with having a little fun with the term. Just like calling yourself an "old fat bald guy." Fun/funny in the right context, but insulting and demeaning in the wrong context. I've often joined in the "mail order bride" fun with absolutely no reservations. But I would never use the term to demean these women.


I know there's no point in trying to change opinions. But I'll continue to point out wrong opinions as I see them.


You'll keep your mouth shut and like it.



(sorry...couldn't resist )

LAB RATS
There is nothing unique about Russian "mail order brides" and American MOBs can be found here in the USA through dozens of internet dating sites, the largest being Match.Com. There's sites for fat partners, skinny partners, gay partners, BDSM partners, senior citizen partners, millionaire partners...you name it.

The fall of the Soviet Union hit it just right time wise...a new free Russia forming along side the rise of the internet with email, IMing, web cams and, most importantly, internet dating sites. Here was a partnership made in heaven...thousands of available Russian women looking for marriage outside their country to match up nicely with the American wife hunting market that suited the internet dating business perfectly. Looking for a mate could now easily go worldwide.

Maybe this akin to the Sears Roebuck way of acquiring things. Why not? You can sit in front of your computer and window shop or go down to the local happy hour or one of those "speed dating" deals and hope for a miracle.

The internet dating thing is very new, just as the internet itself is relatively new...so new in fact that we internet pioneers and surfers are the lab rats in this great new experiment in meeting future mates. We're all operating in a huge invisible laboratory. How will history judge this brave new world? When the very first internet marriage couple celebrates their 50th wedding anniversary, maybe we can say it's as good as meeting Betty Sue at the soda fountain.

Yes, it is still very cool to just meet someone out on the street and have it turn into a solid relationship. But in this new world we find ourselves in...a man's gotta do, what man's gotta do.

Each of us had our own personal reasons for seeking a woman from abroad, mine my ancestors came from Russia, and I still have Russian relatives living in Siberia (Omsk) that were shipped there from the Volga region after WWII started. So I have always had a built in fascination about the country one side of my family came from. In communicating with my future wife I found she had a tremendous work ethic, was a professional woman (one of my few criteria) and spoke good English (not a criteria but non-english speaker not a barrier either). My wife is from a fairly large city and hates living in the Midwest biblebelt. But that aside, she has a backyard to grow flowers, much warmer weather and an affinity for adopting stray cats. I don't think any of us can generalize about Russian women, each has their own endearing and not so endearing qualities. But I am constantly amazed with the amount of effort my wife puts into every task she undertakes, and cleanliness, above and beyond belief! Always smartly dressed whether to go to walmart or out to eat, fellows, if your bride is not here yet, you are in for some interesting times, and some personal adjustments. Sweatpants are okay around the house, but don't venture out with her in your warmups when she has a dress on! I would have ventured to Siberia to seek the perfect woman, but as luck turned out, it was not necessary. Did communicate with some very Eastern Russian women, and didn't have too many bad experiences in general, well there was that one gal that wanted to know if we could afford enrolling our children in private school, and would it be possible for us to have champagne in bed every morning? There is a large population of Russians here in the US, a Russian-American paper is published here in Oklahoma and the publishers have provided me some startling info such as one of every ten dollars spent in New York City is by a Russian, the Russian population in the greater LA area is in excess of 1,000,000, there are 130,000 Russians living in the greater Houston area. The Russians aren't coming they are already here, just need to find where, so our wives won't feel too lonely.

As a man and being honest I think the majority of us chose a foreign bride because we were not happy with what is available in the US.

My two kopeks…

First, I’m not going to quote anyone here. (Although I'm tempted to (you know who I'm talking to!)) I will attempt to simply reply to the OP’s subject, “Russian Girls Are Amazing!” and relay my own observations from my experiences regarding the other issues discussed on this thread. Take it how ye may!

To the statement, “Russian Girls Are Amazing!” Yes, they are and no they aren’t. It really depends on how you wish to describe amazement. Yes, overall, my Alla completely amazes me. Life with her is filled with more surprises and wondrous events than I have ever felt before her in a past relationship with any local girl. These traits that make her this way could be found in a woman from another country, besides Russia, I’m sure. It just happens to be Alla is from Russia.

Neither of us set out to find an international person to marry following our past marriages. To be honest, I thought the idea was insane at first and so did Alla. I’m not old (well a little maybe) , fat, nor bald! I wasn’t seeking a trophy wife and Alla wasn’t seeking a sugar daddy. We were two people from far away places seeking love. We just ended up on the same internet track waiting for our trains to collide head on!

A little of how we got to those tracks...

After Alla was ready to look again, she tried, naturally, in Kazan’. What she found were men that fit in these three categories:

• Sexual relations only (Already had a wife and looking for a mistress.)
• Unwilling to be a father (Willing to be a husband only if the kids stay at grandma’s. If she wants to see her children she can go visit them when he is at work. IOW, he really only wants her to be in his bed every night.)
• Willing to be a husband and father but unable to earn an income to support the family.

After several years of living manless and feeling older, she decided to try an ad on the internet. She considered getting older would only make it even harder to find a nice man. She placed an ad with the hopes of finding a man from Germany. (This was because she had college and theatre friends that had emigrated to Germany and were very happily married to Germans.)

I, on the other hand, was in America, dating my 20th or so “cookie cutter” divorced woman that only wanted to tell me about her horrible, worthless, past husband and how many pills she takes to keep her stable albeit emotionless in everyday life. None had sparked anything in me other than my desire to run out the café as quickly as possible. I had found these ladies on the internet via Match, Yahoo, Cupid, what have you. I didn’t know any single women and had no network of friends that could assist me. The internet seemed my only valid option.

One day, I received a letter from a girl in Russia. It was an obvious scam letter but it made me curious to international dating. I sent a few form letters and photos to international dating sites to see what might happen. Within a few weeks I had many e-mails, but they didn’t seem sincere. They appeared staged and I suspected it was the people working at the service answering me. I set up a few e-mail accounts and made a few phony characters up. Sure enough, I received similar letters with only the names changed. I also found it curious if I said I was a physician, the girl was far more inquisitive than if my occupation was a retail store employee. I had feared this idea was not going to be very viable!

After a few more months, I received a letter from a lady in Kazan’. She told me she was an English teacher and a former manager of a dating service. Her name was “Ol’ga” (she is no longer living in Kazan’ and I do not know if she minds her name mentioned). She said that she had saw one of my ads and decided to write to offer some advice and assistance. I asked her what she felt she could do for me. She said she had a few ladies that were acquaintances of hers and were seeking husband’s abroad. She asked if I minded her showed my photo and profile to them. I said, sure. Also, “Ol’ga” sent me some photos and profiles. It was here, I saw Alla’s photo and profile for the first time. I inquired about her. At the same time, Alla happened to be visiting “Ol’ga”. She saw my photo on “Ol’ga's" computer. “Ol’ga” was responded to my e-mail to say Alla was not interested in an American. Alla asked, “Who is this man?” “Ol’ga” said, “Oh, he wanted to know about you, but I am telling him you are not interested. You want a German man.” Alla said, “I know what I said, but this man has kind eyes, ask him to write me to my e-mail. I like him!”

Well, Alla and I began corresponding and calling each other. After a few months of becoming growingly amazed with her, I tested her by saying I was quite poor and afraid she might need to work very hard if we were to create a family. Alla’s response was, “Would you do all that you could for me? Would we live in a flat and not on street? Would you love me as you're only wife and my children as their father?” When I said, yes to all, she responded that money was never her need. All she needed was comfortable shelter, a feeling of security, and love for her and her children. “If I must work to help provide these things it is okay!” Well, that made me even more amazed. She was loving me for me. It was obvious this girl was no gold digging green card seeker. It was with this that I decided to step it up and meet her for real.

Without going on and on, for the next four years of our personal history, I can say that, for us, we earned each others 100% trust after my final visit that lasted one year. It took living as a real family, under Russian conditions, to feel our love grow to a complete mutual understanding and solid faith. Visiting like a tourist the first two times were, truly, useless for us. I’m not saying it can’t be done. (Not everyone can walk away from work, family, etc. for a year.) But for us, we needed the true practice, this test, to be certain creating a family with each other was truly what we wanted. It solidified our bond to each other and our families. I have no doubt or mistrust. If either of us did, we would stay single!

Also the visa laws changed in January, so what you did is very hard unless you find a company that gives you a job that can provide you with a work visa. :/ (I found one though! Yay!)

I liked reading your story, Jeffrey.

Thanks Eekee! I'm glad you enjoyed it. Yes, visa law is an ever changing dilemma. If I needed, I could probably get Alla to find someone to make the visa, however, I sure hope I wouldn't ever need to!

Great story DJeffree. I wonder how hard work visas are to come by these days? Seems like they'd be easier than western Europe. Once my kids are grown and able to support themselves I wouldn't mind spending some time in the old country, if I could find a decent job as a systems engineer.

Nope, you couldn't. Unless Alla could get you a job in Russia. it would be the same deal as if Alla tried to get you a student visa. You really need to gainfully employed at a firm which the Russian government allows to give visa support for work visas. They are really hard to get; my friend who has been working in Russia for like five years started the process on renewing his work visa for September already.

Gone are the days when you could buy a business visa and spend a year in Russia. You can still buy the visa, but there are limitations to how long you can stay in Russia... you have a year-long visa, but you can only stay in Russia for 90/180 days.

Thanks Kirk! How about systems street cleaner? Although, if fluent in Russian it could be a true possibility.


I am positive the school I taught at would make the visa. They begged me to come back for another school year! I had to make one exit in my 12 month stay, just before the 180th day. I took a train to Estonia and stayed for a week and came back. I agree, it is probably far more cumbersome with the new laws!

It's entirely possible. I'll be teaching too. But there are very few schools in Petersburg which currently have the ability to give support for work visas because before it wasn't really necessary and I'd imagine that Kazan' is the same way.

The new laws make it impossible to live in Russia without a work or student visa, basically. I believe that once you are issued a business visa, you need to wait three months after your return from Russia to apply for any other Russian visa. I'm not so sure on that one though--my friend just told me it.

Hmmmm...is there no provision for the spouse of a Russian citizen, like K-3 or CR-1 here?