My wife asked me if she should bring her laptop computer when she comes to the USA. All I know is it's a lower end Russian HP version computer. I think it's fairly new but not sure. She really does not know much about computers and relies on her son to help her with email, etc. In fact, she has a desktop computer that she has some knowledge about but little about the laptop.

And, of course, the manuals are in Russian so i won't be able to read up on it and I'm a Mac guy, so I know nothing about PCs anyway. I'm "Windows illiterate."

I have a Macintosh desktop computer, so having a laptop could be useful I suppose, like watching movies on a trip or whatever...but I wonder about it's value if it's set-up for Russians to use.

I tend to think it's not worth the trouble. What do you guys think? Is it worth her lugging the extra weight from Russia to get this laptop to the USA?

I say leave the "Windows" trash in Russia and get another Mac!

It's the same computer as an hp you'd get here, just with the default language set to russian. I actually have russian windows on my mac. I am pretty sure that if you created your own profile, you could set the language to english, but i never bothered as i like the language practice.

Why would it be of less value if it's set up for Russians? I don't really understand.

I would say bring it! It can't be *that* heavy. She can bring it in her carryon and then it won't count in her luggage as extra weight. Laptop bags are usually allowed on airplanes as a second carryon anyway. plus, households are much more peaceful when people have their own computers. Maybe that's just my house though--right now i'm on my blackberry and my guy is on his internett tablet... Even on vacation we're frantically searching for hotspots.

Also consider that most computer stuff is often twice or three times as expensive in russia as in the us. I always have to carry random computer parts in my bag for my guy... This time i had to bring the parts neccessary for building a linux server. Anyway, it probably cost her a lot to buy this computer.

Does she have family that might be able to use it to communicate with her? It might be more useful to one of her family members than it is for her in the US.

I am growing increasingly disillusioned with macs. Mine crashes to the point of having to wipe my harddrive with increasing regularity. And they're so much more expensive than other computers out there. If I could find a windows laptop that satisfied all my requirements, i'd switch in a heartbeat. I hate the cheap shiny screens all the windows laptops i've seen have. Vista blows, but xp is perfectly adequate.

Mox, you bring up a good point, but if the family doesn't already know how, teaching them would probably be too hard. I've been trying to teach both my mom and my stepmom how to use computers for about six years now. Plus you could always just bring them some eee pcs if all they're going to use it for is chatting/emailing.

Actually Macs are pretty competitively priced with PC's nowadays. They're still a little more expensive up front, but they also come with more features and usable software. Macs are always going to be pricier than the bargain basement PC's that will probably die on you within 6 months, but the days are gone when you paid a heavy premium for a Mac. Do some comparison shopping with Dell, HP, or IBM, and it's a much more level playing field now.

If yours is crashing regularly, it sounds like there's a problem. Maybe you have a bad hard drive. You might want to have it looked at. I've had an iMac, Powerbook G4, a Macbook Pro, and a Mac Pro, and all of them just work. The iMac is going on about 4 years old now, and the kids still use it. My mom has one of the original "flavored" iMacs, and it still works fine for her.

In a couple months you won't be able to buy XP anymore. Microsoft are going to stop selling it. I imagine it won't be much longer until they stop supporting it too. And believe me, a couple hours with Visa will leave you wanting to slit your wrists. (I have to use it at work.)


True. Might be good for a more tech savvy sibling though. It really depends on his wife's situation.

Thanks for the replies.

I think I'll probably take Kazan's advice and buy her a Mac laptop. I can teach her on a computer I know about, and we'll be computer compatible.

I may also take Mox's advice and see if her brother or one of her close girlfriends might want it to stay in touch.

Eekee...I never have crashes on my Mac. What Mac do you have? My son had to go with a PC laptop for college and he's had to reinstall his system like a dozen times. Lots of issue with good old Microsoft so he's gone with Linux rather than Windows and he really prefers it now.

"Buy" xp? What does this mean? When you are dating a Russian video game developer, you do not use this verb in connection with software.

There is nothing wrong with my computer internally. I think it has to do with firefox, which has been incredibly unstable in the last few releases. I've resorted to using safari, which i loathe. We'll see how it goes. My friend has been testing the software he's developing on it while i've been on vacation, so i'll see what he thinks when i get back.

I'm sorry, but I don't think macs are competitively priced for what you get. The consensus among all my programmer friends (both my boyfriend AND my best friend are programmers) is that macs are the equivalent of designer clothes. You pay for a name, and a look, but the "guts" aren't really better.

I had a long, philosophical conversation with the dude working at best buy, and he also has a mac laptop because there are just windows pcs at the moment which can compare. If i didn't have to have a laptop, i would just have my guy build me the computer of my dreams. Maybe i'd go with a dual-boot Hackintosh.

Also, my guy claims used to be the biggest fan of apple in spb and has fond memories of seeing them at a computer expo in '93... But now every time something goes wrong with my computer he goes, "of course, it's apple. It's just a toy!"

I also hate applecare. Once i was having a problem with an ibook so i called them and described my problem, and they were all, "your computer's totally dead! You better just buy a new one right now! Here, i'll connect you to the apple store!" I then took it to tekserve in nyc, and they immediately realized that my computer was set to boot off the network instead of the hd and fixed it for free on the spot.

My desktop imac (the lamp-like one) has never had a problem, but desktops are generally more stable than laptops anyway, i guess because you have to make less concessions due to space.

I agree with Mox...Macs are very competitive when you weigh what you get for the money, like built-in web cameras and all the "I" family of software...and Macs are still plug and play out of the box. Ever since Steve Jobs came back, Apple has been rocking and rolling with neat stuff, leading edge innovations and good quality.

Eekee, compare prices to Dell, HP, IBM. Macs are still slightly more pricey, but they are definitely in the ballpark these days. I'm a computer programmer too, and I do agree that there's some "designer clothes" aspect to Apple products all around, but Apple also delivers a very, very good product. Of my two Mac laptops, neither one has ever had the weird problems I've had with the Dell laptops that my work used to make me carry.

I think Applecare depends a lot on the local place you bring it in to. Here's my Applecare story: My friend had a 17" Powerbook G4. He took it to France with him and it was damaged by some jerk who grabbed the screen and yanked hard. Since then the Mac would only display if it was about 1/3 open. Otherwise the screen was black. He took it in to a shop when he got back, they couldn't fix it, and sent it off to Apple. Apple determined it wasn't worth fixing, and gave him a new 17" Mac Book Pro. He didn't have to pay for shipping, or anything.

Anyway, I don't work for Apple, so I have no incentive to sell you on Mac. For some people the PC is a better choice, and maybe that is the case for you. But a lot of the reasons you mention just aren't true.

Most of the pc laptops i saw also came with built-in cameras. Also, the entire ilife suite is basically programs you can download for free with less-crippled functionality. All i use of the software that came with my mac is itunes, because i have an ipod and i like getting shows from the apple store. But it's awfully buggy. It plays very few file types, which is frustrating. Apple dvd player? Vlc media player. Iphoto? i don't even understand the point of this program. Plus it doesn't come with a word processor. Etc.

In addition, i've had a lot of problems with updates. There have been two times where os x updates have rendered me unable to mount disk images and i had to do some crazy disk utility #### to fix it. They seem to not check for bugs at all before they offer updates.

As far as out of the box functionality, i always have to spend an hour changing things around to get my computer to work the way i need it to.

Mox, when i looked at pc laptops my impression was that the macbook pro was comparable, but that the regular macbook is overpriced. And the macbook air is just plain silly. There's also a lot of quality issues with the macbook with cracking of the case, discoloration, etc.

And jobs? He very well might have to leave apple again for backdating stock options, which was why he had to leave the first time.




Most of the pc laptops i saw also came with built-in cameras. Also, the entire ilife suite is basically programs you can download for free with less-crippled functionality. All i use of the software that came with my mac is itunes, because i have an ipod and i like getting shows from the apple store. But it's awfully buggy. It plays very few file types, which is frustrating. Apple dvd player? Vlc media player. Iphoto? i don't even understand the point of this program. Plus it doesn't come with a word processor. Etc.

In addition, i've had a lot of problems with updates. There have been two times where os x updates have rendered me unable to mount disk images and i had to do some crazy disk utility #### to fix it. They seem to not check for bugs at all before they offer updates.

As far as out of the box functionality, i always have to spend an hour changing things around to get my computer to work the way i need it to.

Mox, when i looked at pc laptops my impression was that the macbook pro was comparable, but that the regular macbook is overpriced. And the macbook air is just plain silly. There's also a lot of quality issues with the macbook with cracking of the case, discoloration, etc.

And jobs? He very well might have to leave apple again for backdating stock options, which was why he had to leave the first time.

Ugh my post got messed up... Stupid network. Sorry about that.

No...Steve Jobs was betrayed by the man he brought into the company in the first place and forced out. His name was John Sculley and he's infamous in the history of Apple. Nothing to do with stock options. Where'd you get that one? If Steve gets in trouble, and that remains to be seen, he's still a genius and a founding father of personal computers. He's always two steps ahead of the PC guys and they end of copycatting Apple innovations. Multi-colors for computers, the IPOD, the IPHONE, etc. etc. etc.

And now that Macs use Intel chips they run Vista faster than any PCs. Beating them at their own game.

You sound like a certified mac hater so I recommend you go and find yourself a PC and maybe consider running Linux. I have owned a Mac since 1989 and love them. No added windows layer to rob power. No cheesy feeling mouse. No chronic crashes. No long delayed updates. No 3-hour set-ups for new hardware add-ons.

I disagree with you mox on the competitivness of the Mac vs the PC. I can pick up an awsome Dell or HP on ebay with all the bells and whistles (integral web cam w/mic, fingerprint id, 2.0ghz processor, 250 gig HD, DVD R/W, and 3 gig ram, 17" monitor) for $1250. A similar Macbook Pro with 2.16ghz processor, 17" screen, 120gig HD, DVD R/W, 2 gig ram, is $1600. If I dump some features off the HP like HD size and a gig of RAM I can easily get that same computer for $1000. That is a difference of 60%. They just dont seem competitve to me, I looked at them after reading yours and Kazans conversation a while back about them, but I couldnt justify the price. New prices are similar.

This is true. The Mac Book Pro was just rated as the fastest Windows notebook by a major publication. PC Magazine or something like that.


I don't get the impression that she hates Macs, just that she's had a bad experience with the one she has. I think she's also getting some incorrect info that could be important in making a decision. I believe PC's have their place, but I also believe the Mac, as it stands today, is the best end-user platform out there. If Ekee were a heavy gamer, I'd tell her to ditch the Mac and get a Dell. And if Ekee were a Real Estate agent I'd also tell her to get a PC because all of the MLS software only runs on PC's.

I am a rabid Linux enthusiast, but I would still not recommend Linux to and end-user. In fact, I would hate myself in the morning, but I would recommend Vista over Linux to an end-user. There is not a Linux distro out there that is easy enough for your average end-user to run and manage. That day is coming, and quite frankly should have been here by now, but it's not here yet.


Not quite true, actually. The Mac OS X kernel runs BSD Unix. The graphical interface you're used to seeing is called Aqua. It runs on top of Unix in the same fashion that the Windows interface runs over DOS, although Microsoft have blurred these lines heavily, resulting in bloaty code and no end of problems. So the additional layer of a GUI on top of the actual OS does cost some overhead, but it's quite a bit less than Windows.


This is the number one reason I gave my mom a Mac. She goes out and buys a printer and it just works.

But us Mac guys see nothing awesome about any PC Bobalouie! And many of us despise Windows. Price does not motivate us, it's the way Macs work!

I'm talking retail price comparisons, not second-hand. I haven't priced Ebay, but I think your experience speaks more to the Mac's ability to hold its value than anything else.

My brother. But i know he's definitely in trouble at the moment for backdating stock options. It was all over the news a little while back.

As i said, i was too disappointed with pc laptops (shiny screens! Gross!) to switch. If i were able to use a desktop, i'd switch. But i can't. I do think the macbook pro IS the best laptop right now for what i need to use a computer for. But i HAVE had a lot of issues with my mac laptops.

The ipod? Not so innovative, really. External harddrive with an interface.

Plus who would ever WANT to run vista? i run xp in parallels because my russian version mysteriously did not pass boot camp's verification tests.

I did just get adobe cs3 for pc though, so that might indeed be the final nai in my mac coffin. However, the only thing that has truly made me be a "mac hater" is my own frustrations in using one.

Ok mox, here ya go

This is straight from the Apple and HP websites, no extra software or printers, etc.:

Macbook Pro $3459.00
17" Hi def screen
2.6 ghz processor
4 GB memory
250 GB hard drive
Bluetooth
Wifi
ethernet
Geoforce 8600M Video card
webcam and mic
8x DVD R/W

HP DV9700t $1899.00
17" Hi def screen
2.6 ghz processor
4 GB memory
250 GB Hard drive
Bluetooth
Wifi
Ethernet
Geoforce 8600M Video card
webcam, mic, and fingerprint security
8x DVD R/W


For a grand total difference of $1560. If you are a "money is no object" person the Macbook pro is the computer for you. But for a price/value guy like me, thats a lot a dimp!

I think the price difference is less in how the mac holds its value and more of how much you paid in the first place!

Huh. I guess I stand corrected then. Either Apple have raised the prices of their laptops, or HP has dropped theirs...or hell, maybe I was just hallucinating the last time I priced computers.

I do want to point out that Macs come with more usable software (not the demo crap you spend hours trying to remove from a PC) than PC's, but certainly not $1,500 worth.

Dunno what to say. The last time I looked, the differences were much closer. Given my experiences with both platforms though, I'll still take the Mac over the PC. Not having to reinstall every 3-6 months or going through some arcane machinations to get a peripheral to install is worth it to me.

I sent my wife an old IBM thinkpad to Russia with a converter for the electrical connection. needless to say, the computer should have stayed there as I bought a much better one here. Also, you will need a power converter, and they are not very good for the electrical needs of a PC whether here or in Russia (not cheap either). Our home PC has both languages on it and my wife glued litle tabs on the keys to reflect which Russian character is beneath the English keys. Seems to be working fine. We acquired a dell laptop with state employee discount and with a wireless modem she can use the laptop anywhere in the house. Myself, I would advise not to lug the laptop over here and use the weight to carry something your wife believes she will need here or has some sentimental value.

I doubt you actually needed a power converter. I have used my computer in Russia without a power converter--just a 15 ruble thing from KEI to turn a european outlet into an american one. Most electronics like cell phones, cameras, and laptops are made to work all over the world. Only things like kitchen gadgets and hairdryers actually require a power converter.

Unless you ARE talking about an outlet switcher thing, in which case they are strangely expensive in the US and also hard to find and very cheap and easy to find in russia.

And to reiterate, if you put the laptop in your carryon it won't count as extra weight. I would never put something as important as a laptop in my checked baggage anyway. I always put electronic equipment and their respective chargers in my carryon so i'm not stranded if the airline loses my bag.

Knock on wood, I dont have the reinstall problems. The only time I have had to reinstall was when I got a virus and had to format the hard drive to clean it out. The peripherals are a different story there....Know exactly what you mean.

A toothbrush is nice to have in a carry-on as well. Extra undies never hurts, either. Nothing like fresh socks after traveling for 42 hours and having no luggage because it's in Bangladesh and you're in Bangalore.

Ridiculous. Exactly how are you going to play Minesweeper for 14 hours straight with a toothbrush and a pair of undies?

I'm a little late to this thread, but if you're strictly comparing hardware, then you're definitely getting the better bargain buying a PC. But, as Mox pointed out, the Mac comes with more usable software. And you also have to factor in the maintenance costs of running Windows like your annual virus subscription, calling in the repair techie (me!) to clean out all the spyware that accumulates, down time doing the periodic reformats and reinstalls, etc.

Of course, if you're "in the know," you'd use AVG, remove all your spyware yourself with free utilities, and the reformats and reinstalls would eat at your weekends, and not your work day... But wouldn't you rather spending those off hours with your new wife?

Since switching to the Mac seven months ago, I haven't had many problems. I'm not saying the Mac doesn't have problems -- it does -- but, they occur with far less frequency overall, and manifest themselves far less severely, than ever happened to me on Windows (and I rarely had Windows problems on my machines).

As for the topic at hand: I'd recommend getting your wife a Mac. Putting a novice user on a Windows machine is going to have you working all the time fixing things. And OSX can operate in Russian just fine, although you might to buy some Russian keyboard stickers or a Russian keyboard cover so she can have her Cyrillic letters. Some software may not translate -- but that's not uncommon on the Russian Windows side either (although it'll be more common on the Mac side, admittedly).

Just my 2 cents

Z

When you have a toothbrush and pair of undies, you don't need to play Minesweeper anymore because you're now fresh and invigorated enough to go out and conquer the terminal!

I'm not a big fan of the Russian typewriter layout. With a mac, you can use use a transliterated QWERTY layout (A=A, S=С, D=Д, etc) No stickers, and it reinforces qwerty in your mind, which is kind of useful to know well in the US.

The transliterated layout, to my knowledge, does not work well if you actually make and then send a file to someone. It almost always comes out as garbage on the other end. It would also totally confuse someone that already types using the Russian standard layout (like my fiancée). When you set your Mac to Russian with the international settings in your preferences the layout is the same as found on any other Russian computer. Fortunately, I memorized the Russian keyboard layout. So I no longer require the keyboard cover, thank goodness!

I am very anti-phonetic keyboard. You're much better off just getting stickers and memorizing the layout.

The "garbage" is the encoding, which can be changed on the receiving side in the browser, so that's not really an issue. it's just better to type like a russian.

That's going to be harder for folks who can't even type like an American!

I concur. Sounds like something my Alla would say! "Type like a Russian!"

My problem is that every time I switch to Russian layout, keyboard types me!

(sorry...was channeling Yakov Smirnoff there for a sec.)

Apple is less intuitive for many windows users, there is learning curve to learn a different OS for her or her son: so for comfort she should probably bring it anyway.
Laptops do not weight that much: I would bring it.

Dmitriy

Speaking as somebody who recently switched form Windows to OSX, I will say there's a slight learning curve if you're doing more than checking email, surfing the net, etc. But I'd wager that the average user would probably would probably pick up OSX in a couple of minutes and be checking out the VJ forum and writing home to Mom. It's not rocket science by any means.

But, with that said, Dmitriy is right: even a heavy notebook computer is not that big a deal to bring along. And it never hurts to have an extra system laying around.

Z

Dmitriy isn't right, Dmitriy is a spammer. This is the second thread he's resurrected to push the link in his sig. A moderator has been contacted.

I find it curious his banner is now displayed constanty where the Googe ads used to be on VJ. What's this all about?

That is very strange. I've been browsing with images turned off, so I didn't see it.

I reported his first ad post, but now I am wondering if he is now the Russia forum sponsor.

As far as I know, advertising is still against the ToS. If they're going to allow forum sponsors to spam, I'll be taking my leave. (Fortunately I don't think that's the case...I have a hard time believing Ewok would sell out like that.)

I reported him as well. Posts are gone, but I think that the whole threads are gone as well? Does the Mod have the ability to delete individual posts from a specific user?

I was speaking to the content of his post, which was relevant to the thread. In all honesty, I didn't even notice his sig since I've been long conditioned to ignore them

Z

Yeah I really just digging on Dmitriy, and not you. I noticed that he'd dug up a couple of older posts and then saw his comment in this one. No offense intended to you shikarnov. This time.


His post in this thread is still here. Hmm.

Mods do have the ability to make threads disappear and to also remove individual posts.

I think it was a post which hadn't been replied to for a long time, so when the offending ad post was deleted it was bumped back down to the 10th page or wherever it was.

Anyway, Zhenya is right that Dimitry's advice was valid in this particular thread... But if he wants street cred in the Russia forum he needs to change his username so it's not his url.

I was pretty much getting the feeling as Eekee pointed out, he is now our official Russian forum sponsor. Sorry, unless we are all allowed to start promoting our businesses, it needs to stop!

Mags, just PMed me and she said they are in the process of sorting it out.

Is it just me, or are the banner ads at the top more "IN YOUR FACE, RUSSIA!"?

Couldn't have said it better myself. Hate it.

I feel the same, and we get a special VJ discount! Oh boy!

And is it just me or is the banner ad gone? I'm just seeing the normal Google ad now.

I still see, GIFTS-TO-RUSSIA! and am sick of it!