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sarahaziz
I just figured out I'm considered White Caucasian on college/test forms, work forms, etc. I've been putting African American Decent all this time. I guess everyone can let their spouses know cuz I didn't know and I've been in US for a while headbonk.gif .

Ethnic Group:

White or Caucasian (Not Hispanic or Latino)
A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa.


African American or Black (Not Hispanic or Latino)
A person having origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa.

Hispanic or Latino
A person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin regardless of race.

Asian (Not Hispanic or Latino)
A person having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian Subcontinent, including, for example, Cambodia, China, India, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands, Thailand, and Vietnam.

Other Pacific Islander or Native Hawaiian (Not Hispanic or Latino)
A person having origins in any of the peoples of Hawaii, Guam, Samoa, or other Pacific Islands.

Native American Indian or Alaska Native (Not Hispanic or Latino)
A person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America), and who maintain tribal affiliation or community attachment.

Two or More Races (Not Hispanic or Latino)
All persons who identify with more than one of the above five races.
just_Jackie
We just went thru this getting the marriage license.

JAH
sarahaziz
It's so confusing cuz they don't list it in detail like it's listed here. I 've been putting mediterranean, African, East ASian.
just_Jackie
I thought I read on here somewhere that Jordanian was considered Asian? blink.gif dunno...so I suggested that at the courthouse and he looked at me like I was nuts. biggrin.gif I checked caucasion and he checked Other i think.

jah
AlHayatZween
QUOTE(just_Jackie @ Mar 19 2008, 11:23 PM) *
I thought I read on here somewhere that Jordanian was considered Asian? blink.gif dunno...so I suggested that at the courthouse and he looked at me like I was nuts. biggrin.gif I checked caucasion and he checked Other i think.

jah


i applied to the Peace Corps many, many moons ago...
and i think they had Jordan lumped in with Asia.

go figure...
hz
julianna
Jordan is in Asia, but no, they are considered caucasian. This is why it's annoying to hear people talk about their "interracial marriage" when they are white married to an Arab. Inter-cultural maybe.

FYI East Asians are those from say, indonesia and the like.
*Maureen*
This is what i don't understand, we are suppose to live in a country that does not discriminate againt race, religion, etc. so why do they keep insisiting us to check which race we are mad.gif it should be none of your business!

Jenn!
QUOTE(77Maureen @ Mar 20 2008, 10:24 AM) *
This is what i don't understand, we are suppose to live in a country that does not discriminate againt race, religion, etc. so why do they keep insisiting us to check which race we are mad.gif it should be none of your business!


A while ago at work I received some sort of questionnaire about my race. I can't remember what regulation it pertained to, but I guess it was mandatory for all employees where I work to fill it out. It even said that if we didn't complete it, that our race would be selected for us. wacko.gif By whom? And how!? Good luck guessing mine! laughing.gif
julianna
QUOTE(Jenn! @ Mar 20 2008, 09:31 AM) *
A while ago at work I received some sort of questionnaire about my race. I can't remember what regulation it pertained to, but I guess it was mandatory for all employees where I work to fill it out. It even said that if we didn't complete it, that our race would be selected for us. wacko.gif By whom? And how!? Good luck guessing mine! laughing.gif


I refused to fill out that paper (i got it too.) It gets filled out by your direct supervisor.
AlHayatZween
i went to a doctor's office once, and they had the race question on the forms you have to fill out...

i checked OTHER, and then the lady asked me to clarify.
she said, "Well, what do you mean Other? What are you?"


unsure.gif
simple_male
QUOTE(sarahaziz @ Mar 19 2008, 07:17 PM) *
It's so confusing cuz they don't list it in detail like it's listed here. I 've been putting mediterranean, African, East ASian.


If you are from Algeria, why are you putting East Asian? I think, you should put "white."
jade2004
I always check OTHER....hahahahahhaah
moody
For my husband we check "Caucasian" because usually lists Mid Eastern as Caucasian. My husband is technically African but identifies himself as Mid Eastern/Arab. But then again, he says he's not Arab. It's all so confusing.
Aymerlu
When my husband and I went to get our marriage license he asked where he was from, he said "Egypt." She picked up a book looked up Egypt and said....."oh ok....you are white." Those of you that know my husband, he is anything but white......very dark! I just looked at her and said "ummmm how can you put down white.....don't you this could be a minor problem." He then said he's nubian and there was a place for nubian to be marked.
polarbear
There were problems for my husband with the driver's liscense bc of this. They actually originally marked him as from Iraq blink.gif we asked them to please change the nationality Egypt as that is what is marked on his passport. Then we had to go back another day for the driving test and realized that they had marked him as hispanic for race (we live in Miami, go figure wacko.gif )
amal
at Wal-Mart, they have Middle East under Caucasian. Hubster said that in Jordan, his complection is considered white too.
I think its a strange situation coz technically, they ARE Asian since they come from Asia and all. So I guess he is my Asian Caucasian HEYYYYYYYYYYYYY THAT RHYMES!!!!!!!!!! sorry... I hope that didn't offend anyone. I meant it in the nicest way possible. good.gif

rose.gif amal rose.gif
Sheherazade
pretty simple. MENA is white. wacko.gif my husband liked to call himself african american too but it is wrong! star_smile.gif
AlHayatZween
unless you are not white...
like the Saharawi from south of Ouarzazat, Zagora, M'hamid... on into Mauritania...

it is madness....... wacko.gif
polarbear
QUOTE(sereia @ Mar 20 2008, 03:53 PM) *
pretty simple. MENA is white. wacko.gif my husband liked to call himself african american too but it is wrong! star_smile.gif


Yeah, but if they have the same skin tone as the hispanic group, why are they considered white? Seriously, my husband can't get people to stop speaking to him in Spanish before they even try the English wacko.gif Not saying they should be hispanic, but to me, they aren't white either blush.gif
Jenn!
QUOTE(polarbear @ Mar 20 2008, 05:15 PM) *
QUOTE(sereia @ Mar 20 2008, 03:53 PM) *
pretty simple. MENA is white. wacko.gif my husband liked to call himself african american too but it is wrong! star_smile.gif


Yeah, but if they have the same skin tone as the hispanic group, why are they considered white? Seriously, my husband can't get people to stop speaking to him in Spanish before they even try the English wacko.gif Not saying they should be hispanic, but to me, they aren't white either blush.gif


As I understand it, racial differences aren't only about skin color, but also things like cranial shape. In any case, it's all fairly controversial, I think, and can quickly become arbitrary and meaningless.
chemaatah
QUOTE(Jenn! @ Mar 20 2008, 04:19 PM) *
QUOTE(polarbear @ Mar 20 2008, 05:15 PM) *
QUOTE(sereia @ Mar 20 2008, 03:53 PM) *
pretty simple. MENA is white. wacko.gif my husband liked to call himself african american too but it is wrong! star_smile.gif


Yeah, but if they have the same skin tone as the hispanic group, why are they considered white? Seriously, my husband can't get people to stop speaking to him in Spanish before they even try the English wacko.gif Not saying they should be hispanic, but to me, they aren't white either blush.gif


As I understand it, racial differences aren't only about skin color, but also things like cranial shape. In any case, it's all fairly controversial, I think, and can quickly become arbitrary and meaningless.
for sure! there are many, many ways to classify differences and similarities amongst different people around the world, from lactose tolerance to incidence of sickle cell gene (which is actually far more common amongst greeks and italians than sub-saharan africans). i read this a long time ago, and thought it was an interesting take on the subject.

Race Without Color: Basing race on body chemistry makes no more sense than basing race on appearance--but at least you get to move the membership around.

as well, interpretations of race in me/na can be pretty interesting and varied too, i saw this on another website-

In the Sahara, I remember seeing a person with substantially darker skin than Condoleeza Rice mock her for being black. As far as he and most other people in town were concerned, the colour of his skin had nothing to do with whether he was black or not - what counted was his non-sub-Saharan patrilineal ancestry (ie, not being descended from slaves or serfs, at least through the male line.) That said, I doubt he would have been considered white on the coast, no matter where his forefathers came from...
Carolyn
I think that the single "race" box is rapidly becoming pointless...

I am a high school teacher in an urban setting--most of our students are "people of color" although probably at least half of them are multiracial. We also have to pick one for students who do not specify on their school application for demographic/testing purposes (including my favorite--No Child Left Behind). How stupid. What would you check for the black and Mexican student? Or the Mexican of Italian ancestry? Or the Dominican who obviously had African ancestors? I asked our office manager, and she said that if she has to pick for a student, she basically goes by what a student LOOKS like (and sometimes what language they speak at home).

We have a rapidly changing world, and many people, including our spouses, don't fit neatly into racial categories--and what is the point, really?

Ciao,
Carolyn

P.S. People frequently speak to my Moroccan Berber husband in Spanish, too!
sarahaziz
QUOTE(simple_male @ Mar 20 2008, 10:42 AM) *
QUOTE(sarahaziz @ Mar 19 2008, 07:17 PM) *
It's so confusing cuz they don't list it in detail like it's listed here. I 've been putting mediterranean, African, East ASian.


If you are from Algeria, why are you putting East Asian? I think, you should put "white."



lol you're right brother, i used to mainly put african we also don't consider ourselves arab but in america algerians pretty much categorized arab
sarahaziz
im a dark algerian i don't know how i got yellow or tanned. everyone in my family is pale white.
Virtual wife
Altho Arab, I have no interest in being regarded as White. I pick "Other" or leave it blank. When I contract for the US government, we always have this fight. I don't know what they put me down as.

The State Dept has agreements with many countries to classify their citizens as "White", no matter how absolutely absurd it is. One of my cousins married a full blooded Native from South America, and when she saw his papers classifying him as "White", she had a fit, declaring that she didn't marry a White guy. They said, yes you did. People from his country are classified as White no matter what their ancestry is.

Go figure.
Hanging in there
QUOTE(ta me go hiontach @ Mar 20 2008, 07:38 PM) *
QUOTE(Jenn! @ Mar 20 2008, 04:19 PM) *
QUOTE(polarbear @ Mar 20 2008, 05:15 PM) *
QUOTE(sereia @ Mar 20 2008, 03:53 PM) *
pretty simple. MENA is white. wacko.gif my husband liked to call himself african american too but it is wrong! star_smile.gif


Yeah, but if they have the same skin tone as the hispanic group, why are they considered white? Seriously, my husband can't get people to stop speaking to him in Spanish before they even try the English wacko.gif Not saying they should be hispanic, but to me, they aren't white either blush.gif


As I understand it, racial differences aren't only about skin color, but also things like cranial shape. In any case, it's all fairly controversial, I think, and can quickly become arbitrary and meaningless.
for sure! there are many, many ways to classify differences and similarities amongst different people around the world, from lactose tolerance to incidence of sickle cell gene (which is actually far more common amongst greeks and italians than sub-saharan africans). i read this a long time ago, and thought it was an interesting take on the subject.

Race Without Color: Basing race on body chemistry makes no more sense than basing race on appearance--but at least you get to move the membership around.

as well, interpretations of race in me/na can be pretty interesting and varied too, i saw this on another website-

In the Sahara, I remember seeing a person with substantially darker skin than Condoleeza Rice mock her for being black. As far as he and most other people in town were concerned, the colour of his skin had nothing to do with whether he was black or not - what counted was his non-sub-Saharan patrilineal ancestry (ie, not being descended from slaves or serfs, at least through the male line.) That said, I doubt he would have been considered white on the coast, no matter where his forefathers came from...
There is more genetic diversity in Algeria than in many mena countries due to the intense slave trade of europeans brought through Algiers by the barbary pirates and ottomans between 1400 and 1800s...over 1,000,000 slaves were brought into Algiers.In1631 an entire city from Ireland was kidnapped back to Algiers (BALTIMORE IRELAND)noted in Des Akins book called the STOLEN VILLIAGE.This was not the case in Morocco.This is reflected in how different the people in the west of Algeria look from eastern Algerians.My husband is half saharawi from GHAIRDAIA and MOZABITE and his mom is andalusian,......his fathers family is very dark.He calls himself blue not black...
Hanging in there
QUOTE(Virtual wife @ Mar 20 2008, 11:35 PM) *
Altho Arab, I have no interest in being regarded as White. I pick "Other" or leave it blank. When I contract for the US government, we always have this fight. I don't know what they put me down as.

The State Dept has agreements with many countries to classify their citizens as "White", no matter how absolutely absurd it is. One of my cousins married a full blooded Native from South America, and when she saw his papers classifying him as "White", she had a fit, declaring that she didn't marry a White guy. They said, yes you did. People from his country are classified as White no matter what their ancestry is.

Go figure.

Also not all mena people identify themselves as sunni or arab.The mozabites from Ghairdaia are ibadi muslim and are not ethnically arabic at all.They would very much say they were black...Algerians from the sahara do not have a problem with being black...they are ....often they call themselves blue....the tuaregs of the sahara are resentful of arab racism and presently are fighting arabization. They do not practice sunni islam nor do they want to be identified as arab whatsover
Hanging in there
QUOTE(Virtual wife @ Mar 20 2008, 11:35 PM) *
Altho Arab, I have no interest in being regarded as White. I pick "Other" or leave it blank. When I contract for the US government, we always have this fight. I don't know what they put me down as.

The State Dept has agreements with many countries to classify their citizens as "White", no matter how absolutely absurd it is. One of my cousins married a full blooded Native from South America, and when she saw his papers classifying him as "White", she had a fit, declaring that she didn't marry a White guy. They said, yes you did. People from his country are classified as White no matter what their ancestry is.

Go figure.

Hanging in there
QUOTE(Virtual wife @ Mar 20 2008, 11:35 PM) *
Altho Arab, I have no interest in being regarded as White. I pick "Other" or leave it blank. When I contract for the US government, we always have this fight. I don't know what they put me down as.

The State Dept has agreements with many countries to classify their citizens as "White", no matter how absolutely absurd it is. One of my cousins married a full blooded Native from South America, and when she saw his papers classifying him as "White", she had a fit, declaring that she didn't marry a White guy. They said, yes you did. People from his country are classified as White no matter what their ancestry is.

Go figure.

MrsAmera
When speaking with my son's doctor and asked about his ethnic background I was told (Middle Eastern doctor in a prevelant Middle Eastern area), that I should always mark caucausian, hispanic and african american on health questionaires because of the high prevelance of inter-mixing of populations in North Africa and Spain. There are certain diseases that are prevalent in specific ethnic groups that might not be done if these boxes are not checked. Just an FYI for those with Moroccan or N/A spouses.
Hanging in there
QUOTE(MrsAmera @ Mar 21 2008, 10:30 AM) *
When speaking with my son's doctor and asked about his ethnic background I was told (Middle Eastern doctor in a prevelant Middle Eastern area), that I should always mark caucausian, hispanic and african american on health questionaires because of the high prevelance of inter-mixing of populations in North Africa and Spain. There are certain diseases that are prevalent in specific ethnic groups that might not be done if these boxes are not checked. Just an FYI for those with Moroccan or N/A spouses.

Also Jewish blood.Fez was the head of judaic thought in Morocco.Benni yanni is a jewish name.....(think redheads and the kinds new wife)
Hanging in there
QUOTE(wahrania @ Mar 21 2008, 02:50 PM) *
QUOTE(MrsAmera @ Mar 21 2008, 10:30 AM) *
When speaking with my son's doctor and asked about his ethnic background I was told (Middle Eastern doctor in a prevelant Middle Eastern area), that I should always mark caucausian, hispanic and african american on health questionaires because of the high prevelance of inter-mixing of populations in North Africa and Spain. There are certain diseases that are prevalent in specific ethnic groups that might not be done if these boxes are not checked. Just an FYI for those with Moroccan or N/A spouses.

Also Jewish blood.Fez was the head of judaic thought in Morocco.Benni yanni is a jewish name.....(think redheads and the kinds new wife)

70 – Wave of Jewish immigration following destruction of Second Temple in Jerusalem.

694 – Queen Kahaina leads Berbers against invading Arab armies.


1033 – 6,000 Jews killed in Fez by Muslim mobs.


1106 – Ali ibn Yusuf ibn Tashifin founds Marrakesh, decrees death penalty for local Jews even as his military leader and physician are Jewish.
1107 – Almoravide ruler Yusuf ibn Tashifin orders Jews to convert or be expelled from Morocco.
1148 – Almohadin become rulers of Morocco, offer Christians and Jews the choice of conversion or expulsion. Many Jews convert, but continue to practice Judaism in secret.


1165 – Almohad ruler declares all Jews must convert to Islam. Judah ha-Kohen ibn Shushan burned alive for refusing to convert. Maimonides flees Fez for Egypt.


1276 – Riots targeting Jews of Fez stopped by Sultan.


1438 – Jews of Fez forced into mellah (ghetto).


1465 – Massive anti-Jewish rioting in Fez spreads across Morocco. Hundreds murdered. Only 11 Jews left alive in Fez.


1492 – Jews fleeing Spanish Inquisition settle in Morocco.


1500s – First Hebrew press established in Fez.


1557 – Marrakesh mellah established.


1682 – Meknes mellah established.


1790 – Pogrom in Tetouan: All Jews stripped naked, many women raped, most homes ransacked.


1808 – Mulay Suleiman orders Jews of Tetuan, Rabat, Sale, and Mogador into mellahs.


1815 – Jews of Mogador ordered to pay sudden jizya poll-tax. Those who pay punched on the forehead after turning over coins, those who refuse thrown in dungeon.
Hanging in there
QUOTE(wahrania @ Mar 21 2008, 02:53 PM) *
QUOTE(wahrania @ Mar 21 2008, 02:50 PM) *
QUOTE(MrsAmera @ Mar 21 2008, 10:30 AM) *
When speaking with my son's doctor and asked about his ethnic background I was told (Middle Eastern doctor in a prevelant Middle Eastern area), that I should always mark caucausian, hispanic and african american on health questionaires because of the high prevelance of inter-mixing of populations in North Africa and Spain. There are certain diseases that are prevalent in specific ethnic groups that might not be done if these boxes are not checked. Just an FYI for those with Moroccan or N/A spouses.

Also Jewish blood.Fez was the head of judaic thought in Morocco.Benni yanni is a jewish name.....(think redheads and the kinds new wife)

70 – Wave of Jewish immigration following destruction of Second Temple in Jerusalem.

694 – Queen Kahaina leads Berbers against invading Arab armies.


1033 – 6,000 Jews killed in Fez by Muslim mobs.


1106 – Ali ibn Yusuf ibn Tashifin founds Marrakesh, decrees death penalty for local Jews even as his military leader and physician are Jewish.
1107 – Almoravide ruler Yusuf ibn Tashifin orders Jews to convert or be expelled from Morocco.
1148 – Almohadin become rulers of Morocco, offer Christians and Jews the choice of conversion or expulsion. Many Jews convert, but continue to practice Judaism in secret.


1165 – Almohad ruler declares all Jews must convert to Islam. Judah ha-Kohen ibn Shushan burned alive for refusing to convert. Maimonides flees Fez for Egypt.


1276 – Riots targeting Jews of Fez stopped by Sultan.


1438 – Jews of Fez forced into mellah (ghetto).


1465 – Massive anti-Jewish rioting in Fez spreads across Morocco. Hundreds murdered. Only 11 Jews left alive in Fez.


1492 – Jews fleeing Spanish Inquisition settle in Morocco.


1500s – First Hebrew press established in Fez.


1557 – Marrakesh mellah established.


1682 – Meknes mellah established.


1790 – Pogrom in Tetouan: All Jews stripped naked, many women raped, most homes ransacked.


1808 – Mulay Suleiman orders Jews of Tetuan, Rabat, Sale, and Mogador into mellahs.


1815 – Jews of Mogador ordered to pay sudden jizya poll-tax. Those who pay punched on the forehead after turning over coins, those who refuse thrown in dungeon.




Under the Almohads (1146-1400s)
The tolerance of the jizya (The tax demanded of dhimmis) paying Jews and Christians in the cities of Morocco came to an end under the intolerant dynasty of the stern Almohades, who came into power in 1146. Jews and Christians were compelled either to accept Islam or to leave the country. Here, as in other parts of North Africa, many Jews who shrank from emigrating pretended to embrace Islam. As for example, we can quote names like Benchekroun (initially Chokron or Choukroun or Chekroun depending on the pronunciation), El Kohen and Kabbaj, that were Jews. Maimonides, who was staying in Fez with his father, is said to have written to the communities to comfort and encourage his brethren and fellow believers in this sore time of oppression (see Ibn Verga) [6]. In the above-mentioned elegy of Abraham ibn Ezra, which appears to have been written at the commencement of the period of the Almohads, and which is found in a Yemen siddur among the ḳinot prescribed for the Ninth of Ab, the Moroccan cities Ceuta, Meknes, the Draa River valley , Fez, and Segelmesa are especially emphasized as being exposed to great persecution. Joseph ha-Kohen [7] relates that no remnant of Israel was left from Tangier to Mehdia. Moreover, the later Almohads were no longer content with the repetition of a mere formula of belief in the unity of God and in the prophetic calling of Muhammad. Abu Yusuf Ya'qub al-Mansur, the third Almohad prince, suspecting the sincerity of the supposedly converted Jews, compelled them to wear distinguishing garments, with a very noticeable yellow cloth for a head-covering; from that time forward the clothing of the Jews formed an important subject in the legal regulations concerning them. The reign of the Almohads on the whole exercised a most disastrous and enduring influence on the position of the Moroccan Jews. Already branded externally, by their clothing, as unbelievers, they furthermore became the objects of scorn and of violent despotic caprice; and out of this condition they have not succeeded in raising themselves.

An account by Solomon Cohen dated January 1148 AD describes the Almohad conquests:

"Abd al-Mumin ... the leader of the Almohads after the death of Muhammad Ibn Tumart the Mahdi ... captured Tlemcen [in the Maghreb] and killed all those who were in it, including the Jews, except those who embraced Islam. ... [In Sijilmasa] One hundred and fifty persons were killed for clinging to their [Jewish] faith. ... One hundred thousand persons were killed in Fez on that occasion, and 120,000 in Marrakesh. The Jews in all [Maghreb] localities [conquered] ... groaned under the heavy yoke of the Almohads; many had been killed, many others converted; none were able to appear in public as Jews."[8]


[edit] The Merinids and the Saadites
After the Almohads, the Merinids ruled in Morocco until they were overthrown by the Saadites in the 15th century. During the murderous scenes which were enacted in 1391 in Seville and were repeated in a large part of Spain and then across the sea in Majorca, the Spanish Jews were glad to seize the first opportunity to emigrate to North Africa in order to escape the persecution in Spain. A hundred years later, when the Jews were driven out of Spain in 1492 and Portugal in 1496, the sudden inroad upon Morocco and the whole of north Africa was repeated on a very much larger scale. This unexpected flood of Spanish immigrants, which soon caused overcrowding in the larger cities of Morocco, aroused uneasiness both among the Muslims, who feared an increase in the price of necessities, and among the Jews already settled there, who had hitherto barely succeeded in gaining a livelihood by following handicrafts and in petty commerce. In addition to this unfriendly reception, the newcomers had to endure much from both great and small rulers eager for booty, as well as from the Moorish population (see Ibn Verga).[9] In Sale, in 1442, many Jewish women were raped; and in Alcazarquivir, the Jews were robbed of all they possessed. Many died of hunger and some returned to Spain [10]; most fled to Fez, where new trials awaited them. A terrible conflagration occurred in the Jewish quarter of that city, from which the historian of these events, Abraham ben Solomon of Torrutiel, then eleven years of age, escaped [11]. A famine broke out soon after the fire, during which more than 20,000 Jews died in and around Fez. Notwithstanding these untoward events, the secret Jews or Maranos who were left in Spain and Portugal and who were determined to remain true to their faith under all circumstances so little feared the dangers and trials of removing to a foreign country that Manuel I, King of Portugal (1495-1521), felt obliged to forbid the Jews to emigrate without express royal permission. This prohibition was contained in two ordinances dated respectively April 20 and April 24, 1499. Nevertheless, with the aid of money and the exercise of shrewdness many Maranos succeeded in escaping to Africa. A certain Gonηalo of Loulι was heavily fined because he secretly transported Neo-Christians from Algarve to Larache on the coast of Morocco [12].

A new group of Maranos was brought to Morocco through the definite establishment of the Inquisition in Portugal under Pope Paul III in 1536.[13] But in spite of all the suffering which Portugal had brought upon the Jews, there yet remained enough patriotism in the hearts of her rejected Jewish sons to cause them to help their former oppressors to preserve their old possessions on the Moroccan coast and to gain new ones. Through the strategy of a Jewish physician the Portuguese in 1508 succeeded in conquering the old seaport town of Safi, which had a large number of Jewish inhabitants and which, chiefly through them, had become an important commercial center.[14] Two years later, in the same city, upon the reconquest of which the Moors had been steadily intent, was besieged by a large Moorish army. Thereupon two Portuguese Jews, Isaac Bencemero and a certain Ismail, brought assistance to the besieged with two ships manned by coreligionists and equipped at their own cost.[15] In Safi, the Jews were allowed to live as such by Emanuel's permission; also in Asilah after 1533, which had long been a Portuguese possession. In the quarrels which afterward took place between the Moors and the governors of Azamur in 1526, Abraham ben Zamaira and Abraham Cazan, the most influential Jew in Azemmour in 1528, served the Portuguese as negotiators.[16] The Jews Abraham and Samuel Cabeηa of Morocco also had dealings with the Portuguese generals. When, in 1578, the young king Sebastian with almost his whole army met death, and Portugal saw the end of her glory, at Alcazarquivir, the few nobles who remained were taken captive and sold to the Jews in Fez and Morocco. The Jews received the Portuguese knights, their former countrymen, into their houses very hospitably and let many of them go free on the promise that they would send back their ransom from Portugal.[17] The numerous newly immigrated Jews, whose descendants have faithfully adhered to the use of their Spanish dialect, Ladino and Haketia, down to the present day, and who far surpassed the older Jewish inhabitants of Morocco in education and in intellectual acquirements, come into the foreground in the following period of the history of Judaism in Morocco. With their skill in European commerce, in arts and handicrafts, much of which had hitherto been unknown to the Moors, and with their wealth, they contributed largely to the great rise and development of the Moroccan kingdom under the Alaouite Dynasty reign, who began to rule in 1666.[
MrsAmera
Jews = Caucasian
Hanging in there
QUOTE(MrsAmera @ Mar 21 2008, 04:28 PM) *
Jews = Caucasian

except you if youre an ethiopian jew
humpkinpumpkin
wahrania i'm having a hard time understanding what you're trying to get at with this jewish history that you're posting. What does it, and the video have to do with the discussion? I feel like I'm out in left field reading all of this.
ZaidsMommy
unless arab/middle eastern is specified, its always White/Caucasion
*Maureen*
my finger got sore scrolling through it so i gave up tongue.gif
Hanging in there
QUOTE(bridget @ Mar 21 2008, 04:56 PM) *
wahrania i'm having a hard time understanding what you're trying to get at with this jewish history that you're posting. What does it, and the video have to do with the discussion? I feel like I'm out in left field reading all of this.

Its in response to the genetic make up of moroccans and ms amera...it talks about some of the forced conversions to islam over the years of jews by varying dynasties...

QUOTE(bridget @ Mar 21 2008, 04:56 PM) *
wahrania i'm having a hard time understanding what you're trying to get at with this jewish history that you're posting. What does it, and the video have to do with the discussion? I feel like I'm out in left field reading all of this.

the video was in response to other races and genetic makeups in mena to virtual wife
Hanging in there
QUOTE(bridget @ Mar 21 2008, 04:56 PM) *
wahrania i'm having a hard time understanding what you're trying to get at with this jewish history that you're posting. What does it, and the video have to do with the discussion? I feel like I'm out in left field reading all of this.

some jews stayed jewish....many became muslim and are part of the genetic makeup in morocco...the wife of the king is a desecendant of a jewish family that became muslim hundreds of years ago
Virtual wife
QUOTE(ks71905 @ Mar 21 2008, 03:00 PM) *
unless arab/middle eastern is specified, its always White/Caucasion


Arabs are only politically White/Caucasian, certasinly not always genetically White/Caucasian. Historically and physiologically, there's no reason to consider yourself as White beyond that. Europeans politically helped sell my people out. Why would I consider myself to be politically White after that?

Virtual wife
QUOTE(MrsAmera @ Mar 21 2008, 02:28 PM) *
Jews = Caucasian


Jewish isn't a race any more than Arab is.
Hanging in there
QUOTE(Virtual wife @ Mar 22 2008, 07:52 AM) *
QUOTE(MrsAmera @ Mar 21 2008, 02:28 PM) *
Jews = Caucasian


Jewish isn't a race any more than Arab is.
well...if you want to get technical,with the number of conversions many people would have the shock of their lives to see their dna....I have syrian roots according to my www.familytree.com with my chart and haplops taking my relatives through syria and the fertile cresecent and Im irish...go figure...

Also lots of "arabs" have jewish dna markers....carrying cohen genes ....think forced conversions to Islam....so technically we are all cousins....
sarahaziz
QUOTE(Virtual wife @ Mar 22 2008, 07:47 AM) *
QUOTE(ks71905 @ Mar 21 2008, 03:00 PM) *
unless arab/middle eastern is specified, its always White/Caucasion


Arabs are only politically White/Caucasian, certasinly not always genetically White/Caucasian. Historically and physiologically, there's no reason to consider yourself as White beyond that. Europeans politically helped sell my people out. Why would I consider myself to be politically White after that?



07.03.1962 ranting33va.gif content.gif
Sheherazade
i read somewhere there really are only three true races. caucasian, asian, and black. so arabs and jews would then fall under caucasian. i think government documentation and all that list more to further classify people but scientifically there are three. i wish i had a link to back up that argument but i haven't found one yet. i forgot where i read it! maybe sharon (where has she been lately anyway?) can further discuss this with us?!
julianna
QUOTE(sereia @ Mar 23 2008, 12:46 PM) *
i read somewhere there really are only three true races. caucasian, asian, and black. so arabs and jews would then fall under caucasian. i think government documentation and all that list more to further classify people but scientifically there are three. i wish i had a link to back up that argument but i haven't found one yet. i forgot where i read it! maybe sharon (where has she been lately anyway?) can further discuss this with us?!


Biologically there is no such thing as race at all. There is more genetic diversity within each "race" than between races, and race is a social construct. So scientifically, there are no races smile.gif
Virtual wife
QUOTE(sereia @ Mar 23 2008, 11:46 AM) *
i read somewhere there really are only three true races. caucasian, asian, and black. so arabs and jews would then fall under caucasian. i think government documentation and all that list more to further classify people but scientifically there are three. i wish i had a link to back up that argument but i haven't found one yet. i forgot where i read it! maybe sharon (where has she been lately anyway?) can further discuss this with us?!


Why would Arabs and Jews be Caucasian? How does being Arab or Jewish denote a race? Race is a social construct, often a political one.
Hanging in there
QUOTE(sereia @ Mar 23 2008, 01:46 PM) *
i read somewhere there really are only three true races. caucasian, asian, and black. so arabs and jews would then fall under caucasian. i think government documentation and all that list more to further classify people but scientifically there are three. i wish i had a link to back up that argument but i haven't found one yet. i forgot where i read it! maybe sharon (where has she been lately anyway?) can further discuss this with us?!

well i had a dna test and i have middle eastern dna and im not arab so some moor must have knocked up one of my western irish relatives lol
chemaatah
QUOTE(julianna @ Mar 23 2008, 12:55 PM) *
QUOTE(sereia @ Mar 23 2008, 12:46 PM) *
i read somewhere there really are only three true races. caucasian, asian, and black. so arabs and jews would then fall under caucasian. i think government documentation and all that list more to further classify people but scientifically there are three. i wish i had a link to back up that argument but i haven't found one yet. i forgot where i read it! maybe sharon (where has she been lately anyway?) can further discuss this with us?!


Biologically there is no such thing as race at all. There is more genetic diversity within each "race" than between races, and race is a social construct. So scientifically, there are no races smile.gif

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