Today has been really hard. It has been almost two months since I last saw Paul. And every single day for that time, I am faced with probably close to a million illegals here in Los Angeles demanding 'their' rights. What about my rights? I'm doing things the right way...and it is costing me not only money but precious time away from my husband and him time away from his only child. It is so damned frustrating. And if I say anything that makes me racist. Despite having two children of Mexican-American descent and one of African. There is a legal way of doing things...and all of us that are following it are being penalized for doing so it seems. I'm tired of being the bad guy...and having to bite my tongue. It ain't right. I can't even get a job in my field at the local hospital cause I don't speak their language in MY country. ARGGGGHHHHHHHH!!! Sorry I just needed to blow off some steam before I explode with the frustration of doing the right thing while seeing all these illegals getting away with it.

Terri O'Neale

I support your post 100%. I too live in california and I just get outraged watching the news and listening to the radio. Tomorrow is "walk out day". Yeah.

I think a lot of the country doesn't realize what we're hearing and seeing in Calif. Maybe tomorrow they'll understand. I feel exactly how you feel, I am a newlywed (today is my 4 month anniversary of the day I married the love of my life) and I have been in his arms a total of 13 days since we got married. It angers me in the same way. Just wanted you to know.

Relax, terri, you're doing things the right way and your story will have a happy ending. No sense comparing yourself to illegals who demand rights. The backdrop is that it's an election year and every leftwing group will be on the bandwagon tomorrow. But the more people who turn out, the more they'll underline the fact that the number of illegals has gotten out of hand, and that serious change is needed. In effect, their protest backfires. (Similar to those who want the government to send troops to Dafur while at the same time, demanding that they're withdrawn from Iraq.)

The current Congress can't agree on an immigration reform bill. But things could take a different turn. Suppose the IRS amended the tax return and started asking about status? Or if they starting checking to see if social security numbers were valid? Immigration reform could come swiftly, quietly, and decisively. Meanwhile, open something fizzy, pour it into some stemware, and congratulate yourself on loving this country enough to play by its rules.

well said

Terri

You are not being a racist at all you are just "Telling It Real" like it susposed to be. My wife is also in the UK and keeping two households is a nightmare. And I agree with the fact that everyone has a right to work and live good but I believe even stronger that all these illegals should not be here. They should put every last one of them back across the border and let them go through this same legal INS process as we are doing. Now if someone want to look at me as racist I don't care for I too am just keeping it real

I have travelled alot through out the world in my Army, Navy, and Air Force days and have been to some very poor countries. And if I lived there, i would do anything in my power to get away and make a better life for myself. Maybe it isnt right that they are here, but I completly understand their situation.

Might I remind you....that all of our spouses are IMMIGRANTS and that the only reason they have a chance at getting into this country is because they miraculously met American citizens and got MARRIED to us...not everyone has the the chance to just meet a US citizen! People are just struggling to get ahead in this world...when we stop thinking of borders, of US and THEM, of OUR rights versus THEIR rights, maybe we can get some damn peace in this world...

But let me also remind you, it behooves ALL OF US ON THIS SITE to fight for immigrant rights--because believe it or not, it would more likely speed up the process for us who are legally filing if visas and work permits work EASIER to obtain. And once our spouses are here, perhaps the employment world will be a bit less discriminating--this may not be easy for those to understand who are married to spouses from developed countries who speak fluent English, who have a high education, or who have no accent...it is different being married to someone from a developing country--trust me.

The latter post was rooted in ignorance, in my opinion...until I see a middle-class-white person get off their lazy bums and farm from sunrise to sunset, i will retain that immigrants are not a burdeon on society, rather, they are the foundation of what makes our exploitative society WORK--they fill in most of the jobs lazy Americans would never want to do, enabling the upper-class to CHOOSE to get their educations and high-paying jobs....about the farming, my husband and I are both organic farmers and we have farmed under the most strenuous conditions in the tropics--if you have never done back-breaking work, if you have never been a DAILY house-cleaner being exposed to harmful cleaning chemicals, or at the least taken the time to talk to an immigrant in the labor force, then you will not appreciate the immigrant work force and their struggles for basic human rights. I can't say it's racism, but I can say it's ignorance.

I am as unthrilled as most about the developments going on in the US with these illegal immigrants. However, let us step back a moment and think of a few points.

Illegal immigrants are providing services that out of work Americans can perform, but how many would? I am sure they are also providing services that some people won't provide. I have cruised the rich neighborhoods of my state's capitol city. Doctors, layers, CEOs. There are Mexicans in trucks and vans all over the place, landscaping. They are probably asking for low wages to be competitive, and it works. The people who complain about immigration, and illegals, pay them and don't miss that saved $ that goes into the gas tank of their BMW.

And let's not forget about Wal-mart. Most people I do know in my family, and friends' families, shop there. They don't think twice about the fact that the low prices they pay might be due to the employment of illegal aliens for low wages.

How many of us consider that the quality of life Americans enjoy is bought on the backs of illegals, and cheap imports from countries with questionable human rights records or unsafe working conditions? How many complain about illegals when an illegal workforce provides lower costs of construction for their new homes?

For the record, I am for every single person here who plays by the rules and pushes through the process. And I, too, think that measures should be put in place to control and monitor their numbers. But let me suffix this with a simple fact: let's be sure we are ready for the consequences....

Excelleny post, belize. I can't get angry over 'illegals' protesting their situation. It's not that we're doing it 'the right way' and they're not-- the whole damn system is a mess, and splitting the immigrant community into groups of 'right' and wrong' doesn't help.

I've said from that start that because I'm a white professional marrying an English guy, I've had several advantages over many other applicants, and that just shouldn't be the case. And I sure as hell wouldn't argue that people being smuggled over the border under extremely dangerous situations and working jobs most citizens wouldn't take for terrible pay are doing things the 'easy' wasy.

Can anyone here propose a workable solution? Naturally, we all want an orderly, humane, and fair system for immigration. So where do we go from here? Grant total amnesty? Drop greencards out of helicopters? Or ask people to normalize their situation by making an application? Or would that be treading on their rights?

How about making it less than impossible to get a work visa, so that they can come legally and work?

Yes, the government could make it easier to get a temporary visa. But most people, I suspect, are not interested in being here temporarily. They made the U.S. their home and intend to stay permanently. Even though they're economic refugees, and say they only want to work, they'd turn down a work visa because it's a temporary arrangement.

Actually, I've heard the complete opposite-- many who cross the Mexican border looking for work would happily go back to their families. All that tightening the borders has done is encouraged them to stay here permanently for fear of not being able to get back in. A guest worker program that allows people to cross and recross the border would be a start.

But that raises the question-- how tbest to get undocumented workers to apply for such a status, since fear of deportation is so ingrained.

No comments...

Although we've heard the term "guest worker," we haven't heard many details. If a person could make multiple trips to the U.S., without fear of deportation, it should be a solution. But I don't hear any immigrant groups jumping up and down asking for guest worker status.

There's an unspoken idea that immigrants should not have to sign up for anything. Maybe because they know they wouldn't pass many tests. Some may have criminal backgrounds or serious communicable diseases. For whatever reasons, they seem to be saying that it's an affront to their dignity to be asked to fill out forms. They've paid their dues, in their minds, and simply want to stay. Temporary guest worker is not an option.

Many of our ancestors may have simply arrived here without going through government channels, became hard-working citizens, et cetera. But they didn't arrive in such numbers that a single group changed the demographics drastically. That's an issue here in northern New Jersey, and one that's hard to broach without being accused of racism.

[quote name='belize' date='Apr 30 2006, 05:03 PM' post='163879']

But let me also remind you, it behooves ALL OF US ON THIS SITE to fight for immigrant rights--because believe it or not, it would more likely speed up the process for us who are legally filing if visas and work permits work EASIER to obtain. And once our spouses are here, perhaps the employment world will be a bit less discriminating--this may not be easy for those to understand who are married to spouses from developed countries who speak fluent English, who have a high education, or who have no accent...it is different being married to someone from a developing country--trust me.

...Actually...it will hurt all of us that are doing it the right way. They want to provide amensity for 10 million people. But they don't include money in the bills to hire more personnel to cope with that surge of applications. So guess what? ALL of OUR applications get slowed down. And we have to deal with over-worked under-paid USCIS caseworkers that are at the end of their ropes. And all those people that were against the law won't make a distinction between our loved ones that came here legally and waited and endured these hardships and the ones who didn't. So it will make it harder for them to find jobs and to make tyhe adjustment. Consider that.

Terri O'Neale

You're kidding, right? You live in Northern New Jersey and have somehow failed to notice that a quarter of the population is of Italian descent? How precisely do you think it got that way?

Er...yes. And Irish, with occasional pockets of Eastern Europeans too.

If they dont like it here than they can go back home. It is not fair to us tax payers to support the lazy ones that take advanage of the wearfare system like WIC foodstamps medicare etc that should be only for the you know whos that really need help. The you know whos that actually work and dont take advanage of the system should get to stay but the you know whos that are lazy and wont work should be deported. It makes me sick i see it every day i work in a major grocery chain .

Why is there no work-to-settlement visa option in the US? I must be missing something here.

I am all for immigrant rights. The folks that came here illegally, or overstayed their non-immigrant visa and take up employment illegally often stealing someone's idendity to do so are NOT immigrants. Their crap has NOTHING to do with immigrant rights. Nothing.

It would behoove all of us to keep this straight.

Do you think there should be no legal channel for these people to come live and work here, though?

took you long enough! (to comment that is)

Didn't the majority of Italians come at the same time as the Irish, Germans, etc., at the turn of the last century? Point is, there was more of a mix, and we're not seeing that now.

Could be a solution. Provided people would come forward to participate. Does it exist anywhere else in the world?

Absolutely. There are several options for work-to-settlement here in the UK, and they just made it even more straightforward by introducing the Highly Skilled Migrant Programme. You can work in the UK and apply for Leave to Remain. As long as you remain "economically active", that is, working and paying taxes, you can apply to remain permanently.

There should be an assessment of how many workers of varying qualifications are needed in the US. There should be a sufficient number of visa available worldwide to meet the needs of the economy. I do not believe that special treatment ought to be afforded to those that snuck across the land border. They should be given a window of opportunity to leave so they may apply for one of the available visa back home. Give it two years and then crack down seriously on employers and employees still breaking the laws. Those employers caught pay stiff fines (the kind that takes you out of business) and those in charge go to prison. The emloyees are fingerprinted and taken back to the point of entry and released back into the place where they came from with no chance to ever return.

Get the visa out there, give some adjustment time and then get serious and see the issue work itself out.

Fair enough!

Well...I did all that I can. I sent emails to both my senators and my congress person.

Terri P O'Neale

People who call other people 'racist' because they disagree with illegal immigration should be beaten with a sock full of pennies.

Of course we are. We're seeing Mexicans, Cubans, Dominicans, Hondurans, Ecuadorans, Uruguayans, Guatemalans ... believe me, I worked as a Spanish interpreter in northern New Jersey for years and no one country made up more than a quarter of my caseload. Or does that not count because they're all Latin American? And if not, why do you then count Italians, Irish and Germans as separate groups? After all, they're all European.

The Irish mostly emigrated to the US in the mid-1800s during the potato famine; the Germans in much less-concentrated numbers during the mid-1800s through early 1900s; and the Italians in the first two decades of the 1900s. So no, in fact, the majority of Italians did not come at the same time as the Irish and Germans.

Lets not forget something here. THis isn't a immigration issue, it's a crime issue! These people are criminals! They entered this country illegally, are working illegal and have the nerve to protest for their "rights"?? I don't care if they are doing jobs that Americans find distasteful. They should be deported when found. The employers should be put in jail for hirering them and our borders should be sealed.
We should make it easier for guest workers to come here. But it still does not exuse breaking our laws and then demanding that we say it's OK for them to do it!!

[quote name='terri o'neale' date='Apr 30 2006, 06:44 PM' post='164053']
[quote name='belize' date='Apr 30 2006, 05:03 PM' post='163879']

...Actually...it will hurt all of us that are doing it the right way. They want to provide amensity for 10 million people. But they don't include money in the bills to hire more personnel to cope with that surge of applications. So guess what? ALL of OUR applications get slowed down. And we have to deal with over-worked under-paid USCIS caseworkers that are at the end of their ropes. And all those people that were against the law won't make a distinction between our loved ones that came here legally and waited and endured these hardships and the ones who didn't. So it will make it harder for them to find jobs and to make tyhe adjustment. Consider that.

Terri O'Neale
[/quote]
surprisingly, few have. but that one won't bite most in the butt till it's too late, and the screams will be heard around the nation.


yet another blind spot in many of their arguments. must have ssn to work = fraud and a major pain to someone who is victimized by such.

Ok, I need to vent too. Please excuse.

Vipul and I have both been so infuriated with the rediculous protests going on. I just can't believe some people actually feel they have a right (..please ) to be in this country if they are illegal to start with. The nerve some have to say it's "their country" really really angers me. Their country!? Simply put...it's not. I wouldn't go over to someone's else country, say it's my country, go into the streets and protest for my rights there. What are some people thinking? Vipul and I waited over 4 years to go through this process the legal way and I know there are some here that have went through as much and even longer than we have. To say, "I'm trying to build a better life for my family" isn't an excuse. It's not acceptable. Period. It's breaking the law. They need to trot themselves right back over they border. The people that are employing them need to be prosecuted. I am sick and tired of this mess. I know realistically speaking it would be difficult to deport so many people, but something has to be done. If they want to go back home, file for a visa, and come here legally then more power to them.

-Vipul and Jamie

i can't find it, but somewhere i ran across a site that has information about most of the southern usa belonging to mexico, something like atalan or so. if anyone is familiar with such, please post it.

Aztlan...it's true that some states were Mexican territory.

And we won them fair and square. If those standards applied...then the US is still a British colony...and my husband has every right to come here.

Why can't I post ANYTHING without someone finding a freaking hidden meaning??? I simply posted a fact!

I apologize...that reply should have been to the posting that you were responding to...not directly to yours.

Just for kicks

Let's say a guest worker program was passed into law and 10 million illegal immigrants then registered, went home and came back on these guest visas......would everyone be happy then? Would all of this aggression go away?

What if they came back and someone came up with a Spanish verison of the national anthem.....if businesses continued to offer their services in Spanish, if schools continued to offer courses taught in Spanish, if the current population rise in Latinos in this country continued.......would everyone be happy?

If the law was passed today, with no amnesty - meaning the illegal immigrants would have to register, leave the country and come back with these guest worker visas........the overall situation in America would not be that much different than it is today. The work they do would be the same, and wages would still be depressed in those sectors. So, even in this best case scenario, things don't really change that much. Makes me wonder if the issue is a fear of Latinos and their role in the changing America more than anything.

I support what you are saying 100%, it is mind blowing how we are going about things the right way and are being penalized in a way for doing the right thing, and the illegals are being treated better than US citizens, it is absolutely ridiculous, they should have to go through the same process as everyone else, and if that means going back to their home country while the process is going on, then so be it, that is what we are having to do, I don't see why it would be any different for them, everyone should have to do it the right way, that is my opinion.

and most would find themselves out of a job i'm sure, as their employers would have a far higher cost of employing them (unemployment, ss taxes, etc)

This is an illegal-immigrant issue not an immigrant issue.


I WISH THE F#CKING MEDIA WOULD GET IT STRAIGHT!!!!!!!

the media get something right the first time? surely you jest!

Exactly - as I said before could the debate get any more confused?

The whole point is that we need to know who is coming in to our country. I have no fear of latinos. They are welcome here as long as they live by the same rules as everyone else. But what I do fear is a terrorist coming in with the flood of illegals and doing great harm to us.
Also, if we had a legal way for them to come in and work then they will pay taxes just like everyone else here does. Why should they and the people that employ them get a free ride when almost half of what I make goes to taxes?

I found this website when it was referenced on CNN Lou Dobbs Tonight TV news hour recently. This portion of the website lists arguments against many of the old cliches I see repeated time and time again in these debates about illegal immigration. I found the site interesting, informative, and at times humorous. IMO a lot of it does make good sense.

http://projectusa.org/arguments/index.php

Even though my wife is a foreigner I really do not consider marriage based immigration to be immigration in the traditional sense. It is based on marriage to a citizen or LPR.

I also have noticed the blur between legal and illegal immigration in the media. The United States of America has a sovereign right to regulate and restrict immigration as it sees fit. As does any and every other sovereign nation in the world. The immigrant does not dictate immigration policy for any nation. Which is exactly what these illegals believe they have some sort of right to do. They don't.

Their protests are bogus.

Quite true. I sooner the focus stays on anti-illegal immigration than being simply anti-immigrant, which seems to be what is happening. If things go on like this, it won't be long before we're all getting tarred with the same brush!

Unfortunately there's a bit of a blur with regards to the illegal debate as well. Back in California I used to work wiith some people who were the children of Mexican nationals who came illegally. Unfortunately the US does have the law that grants automatic citizenship to a child born within the US. To those people, who are legal americans, the prospect of having your parent deported back to mexico is probably more than a little worrying.

As I said before, if we're really serious about changing immigration it will take a much more aggressive (and consequently less popular) government than we currently have.