Greetings....

I am sure this question has been asked but I can't find a userful thread at the moment...

I just signed up for a safety deposit box at my bank where I plan to store all crucial immigration-related documents, including:

• NOA2 from I-129f petition
• I797C from AoS application
• Marriage certificate and other evidence submitted with AoS app
• EAD
• AP
• Green Card

However, the law states that permanent residents must carry evidence of their immigration status at all times. The green card is way too important to be carrying around everywhere!! Has anyone had experiences with carrying a photocopy of the green card with an FC-029, or a certified copy, as a replacement? Or how about a photocopy and the EAD card? I'm hoping to be able to lock the green card up somewhere safe and sound... The green card itself could generally be produced within a reasonable amount of time.

Also, is it true that only federal officials can ask for proof of immigration status? (so the immigrant can't get detained from a traffic stop or something like that)

Any input is appreciated.

Thanks!!

My husband carries a color copy, front and back. Yes, it's a misdemeanor to not carry the green card, but I'm not too worried about him getting stopped at the moment since he went five years without documentation and ICE never knocked on our door.

If it gets to the point where he is stopped everytime we go in public, we'll be moving back to Peru.

As it's almost 400 dollars to replace a lost green card, so he just doesn't want to risk it.

Edited: once you have the green card, there's no point in carrying around the EAD card.

It's better to be safe than sorry.I would say to carry a copy only.If your wallet is lost or stolen,someone could pick it up and make that green card into their own.That goes for the social security card as well.In some states,the police are allowed to request proof of immigration status on routine traffic stops but they do not do it always.For example last summer,the police pulled over a van from one of the local emploment agencies and asked all 11 passengers for their green cards.

You are required by law to carry your greencard with you at all times.... it is part of the conditions of residency...



http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/men...00045f3d6a1RCRD


And yes in some states the police can and do check your immigration status for a traffic stop.... friend of ours spend 6 hours sitting in a cell while the police verified his status with USCIS even though his wife brought the Greencard to the Police office... all he had was a color photocopy.... he was told that it did not prove anything... and they detained him, pending verification of his status...

Kez

I carry mine. It's a document as important as my driver's license.

recently in the AOS forum...

I carry it. I have the copy at home. I just do not want to take a chance. Somebody might get lucky when they break the rules, but I am not one of them.

My husband always has his on him, just like he carries his driver's licence. The card and all the supporting documents say to carry it with him at all times, and we both see this as part of the bargain he has struck to be a permanent resident here. If someone steals it, it sucks, but it is ultimately replaceable. When it comes down to it, $400 is just money. Being banged up for 6 hours in a holding cell, well, avoiding that is priceless.

When we were stopped a few weeks ago for a faulty headlamp, the police officer asked to see his greencard. I do not want to think about what might have happened had he not had it on him. We were travelling home from a friend's house way out in Nowheresville, CT and we're convinced we were stopped because the cops probably hadn't seen anyone travelling down that stretch of road for some time and were a bit bored. An alien who couldn't prove his residency status -- they would have been all over that like flies on the proverbial.

Heeeeeeeeell no. I never carried mine and my husband doesn't carry his. My sister made the big mistake of carrying hers along with her SS card and when her purse was stolen it was not only costly to get a new one but a huge hassle to deal with USCIS, again.

My husband is ready to give out his A# if asked and he always carries his DL with him, which in Colorado you can't get unless you are authorized to be in the US.

Again, lesson learned... live and learn.

Diana

I used to keep it at home until I believe Kezzie pointed me to the letter of the law. Since then, I carry it in my wallet and have several copies at home.
There have been tons of cases in the Lynwood area here in Seattle where folks get arrested and go through hellllllll just because they do not have their GC's with them. Better safe than sorry indeed.

The laws are there but there is no-one to enforce them.

Make sure you comply with State laws and f#ck the Feds, all they ever do is interfere with the rights of the individual!

The law is a very old and basic law and principle---all non-citizens are supposed to carry proof of alien registration (status) with them at all times. For nonimmigrants, that means the passport with I-94 and/or EAD, for permanent residents that means the Form I-551 card or stamp. Furthermore, the law also says it is illegal to forge or counterfeit any proof of alien registration.

The law doesn't say that proof to be carried at all times has to be the original document, though this is implied by the original construction because at the time when this was written photocopies were expensive and not very common. Today's photocopying of cards also might be considered counterfeiting under the original construction. The law was also written at a time when U.S. citizens were also required to carry U.S. citizen ID card and there were no state-issued identification cards, but that requirement has since been discontinued and state identity documents are the norm today.

I would make a normal black&white photocopy of the front and back of the PR card and specifically write the words "COPY" accross the copied image and carry just that around on a daily basis. I think carrying a photocopy is still carrying proof of alien registration in the spirit of the law (arguably even in the letter of the law), even though it isn't the original document and doesn't purport to be the original.

The only real time you definitely need to carry the original card is when traveling internationally, visiting government benefit offices such as SSA, USCIS, etc. which require proof of status to provide service, and maybe when completing or updating Form I-9 with an employer. I don't think a color copy is very smart idea (just as making a color photocopy of a U.S. currency bill is wrong), as I think the perception today is that color copying is much closer to forging/counterfeiting than ordinary black&white copying.

In my unqualified opinion, conviction before a judge of misdeameanor for failure to carry proof of registration also seems pretty much impossible to me if you are instead carrying a photocopy clearly identified as a copy, presented it as such when proof of status was requested, and never otherwise falsely claimed to be a U.S. citizen (which BTW is also a deportable offense). This is because your intent of carrying a photocopy instead of the original was not to hide proof of alien registration from authorities (as the law should be interpreted by the judge to be preventing), but rather to keep an important and valuable national security document in a safe place under your control where it may be retrieved by you if and when the original may be needed for legitimate official purposes.

The Permanent Resident card is a much more valuable document than a mere state driver's license/ID card, as lost/stolen PR cards give finders/thiefs the potential to not only steal your personal identity, but also to enjoy valuable immigration benefits that they are not entitled to (the right to live & work in the U.S. permanently and to apply for public benefits and assistance programs). It is in the national interest to reduce and minimize the number of lost/stolen PR cards, including the fact you will be unable to carry yours as required by the law if it is lost/stolen, however with such high fees now, it is in the financial interests of USCIS more than ever before to increase the number I-90 applications they receive as much as possible.

For the above reasons, I do not think it is necessary or a very smart idea to carry the original document around daily or use it regularly as a substitute for a state-issued document (just as a U.S. citizen wouldn't do that with a U.S. passport), and I can't imagine a judge upholding charges against you in the circumstances and due diligence that I suggest (BTW - see INA 264(e) - the maximum penalty is actually $100 or 30 days imprisonment, or both). Finally, and more practically, many businesses may not accept the PR card in lieu of the normal state-issued document they are familiar with, and even some employers may not like accepting it alone for completing the Form I-9 process even though they are required to do so.

In closing, of course, it is everyone's personal decision what the law means and what they finally choose to do.

I think the officer saw probable cause that the crime of counterfeiting by making color copies had occurred, which justified the arrest/detention without warrant to verify status. This is probably also why bringing the original document to the police station was of no effect. I would expect him to do exactly the same thing if he saw a color copy of a dollar bill on the dash board, and it doesn't matter if I show him the original dollar bill it was made from. Even play money is very careful to alter the design somewhat and print the word COPY on the bill. This is all the reason why carrying color copies of the PR card are a bad idea to me.

BTW - it is not a crime to be out of status (just a civil, deportable offense permitting detention pending transfer to ICE), and therefore I don't think he can arrest you without warrant for probable cause on that basis, and if he did, I think you can probably sue for false arrest. And as you already know, I also don't think that presenting photocopy in lieu of the original gives rise to probable cause that you are not carrying proof of alien registration, since all the information contained on the original is available for use by the officer, evidenced by his ability to even "verify status" with it as he says he did, and if he also let you go afterwards without charges, you may also be able to sue for false arrest. But as for probable cause of counterfeiting based on the color copy presented, I think he may have had that, don't you think? Still, I wonder if the officer and D.A. knows enough about federal and immigration law to pick the right argument out the three above to avoid conviction against the officer? Might be worth speaking with an attorney anyway.

I thought that too, and while the supporting documents do say that there is nothing on my card, issued NOV06, that says it must be carried at all times.

Here in Oregon the police are not allowed to check your immigration status if they stop you so they can't ask for it anyway. So I doubt there is much point in carrying it but I always do.

In Washington they have been doing some really strange things --- the police I mean. I even wonder if they have the authority to do so.

From INA 264:



Ironically, while it's not a crime to be here without status, it IS a crime to be here with LPR status but without the original Green Card in your personal possession. The law makes no provision for copies to be used as a substitute.

Though I don't believe the letter of the law is often enforced.

Hmm, it brings to mind that N-400 question "Have you ever committed any crime for which you were not arrested?".

Just wait, soon even citizens will be required to prove they are citizens by local authorities. Next everyone will complain enough that the solution may be biometrics scan or chip implants. State and local authorities and being trained in federal immigration law and they will soon learn that it is required to carry the original greencard and will start charging people who do not. Why would a ploice officer even ask someone if they are a citizen unless their english isn't good? Then Canadians would get away with never being questioned and people would cry profiling and then they would start asking everyone for proof. So many people are complaining about immigration that state and local authorities are doing more and more to find illegal immigrants here.

Perhaps the police might notice they speak very good English but not with an American accent. I have no problems with a police officer asking me my immigration status.

I also have no problems with the State and local authorities seeking out illegal immigrants. In fact the sooner all States pass a law requiring you to prove you are in the US legally before they issue a driving licence/State ID the better.

I only carry a copy with me. My 19 year old son never carries his with him. We have been here almost 3 years


I was stopped at a road block once by the cops here. I still had my Canadian Lisence. When he looked at my lisence he just told me to go get a state lisence and I was on my way.

What about illegal children that have no accent because all they have known is the US? What about children of parents who came here legally and have an accent from there parents, should police go into the schools and detain them until their parents can prove they are citizens?

All the states have to comply with drivers licenses or they will have federal funds taken away.

Why can they just enforce the work verification requirements and also not allow free medical benefits unless you are here legally? If you are arrested then require proof that you are here legally. This would enforce the law and not make everyone here legally and citizens have to deal with harrassment.

They need to go door to door across the US and get it over with once and for all or come up with a human solution.

ere is an example of state laws hurting citizens
http://www.aarp.org/bulletin/medicare/citi...caid_rules.html

I am really not sure what you are ranting on about or what point you are trying to make and I'll think I'll leave it that way.

Only that you stated that you wanted laws passed to get rid of all the illegal aliens. It you look into the laws they want to pass they are also asking to limit the family based immigration which everyone on VJ used and give the numbers to highly skilled people.

The law is silent about the status of copies. Maybe a local police officer could certify a copy for you if you are concerned about its acceptance?

The irony is true. Being without status is not a crime, but it renders you deportable, but without immigration documents, how are the police/USCIS supposed to know you are a non-citizen? Seems they must depend on the testimony of others and your own oral statements and/or other documents like photocopies to prove it? (BTW - and in civil proceedings, you can be required to testify against yourself and burden of proof can be placed on you, while in criminal proceedings, you may only offer testimony against yourself voluntarily and the burden of proof is to the standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt" and this bruden is always on the government to prove).

Well how you twisted my words around to mean that I'll never know.

The law is not just for LPR's, it is for all non-citizens! (and it is probably more important for nonimmigrants to carry original proof of status at all times than permanent residents) Nonimmigrants are initially issued Form I-94 as proof of their alien registration. EAD's can also be used as evidence of alien registration. The full list of documents for all permanent and non-permanent residents that are proof of alien registration under the act is covered in 8 CFR 264.1( b ).

Oh please. US citizens who don't look or speak like a foreigner are never going to be asked for their status when they step out the door; so many of these illegal immigrant initiatives are gravely founded in racism. How else will we explain the Puerto Rican who was denied a driver's license in TN because "Puerto Rico isn't part of the US" or the Nicaraguan who was legal and had her green card, passport, and driver's license confiscated because "those documents are fakes" and had to get a lawyer involved and only got ONE of the documents back (I think she only got the passport back).

Like I said, the day that it becomes like Nazi Germany with stars on our chests to identify those who are citizens and those who are not, I will go to my husband's country. I know this isn't popular opinion, but oh well. There are people from certain parts of the world that a large portion of society/government doesn't want here, legal or otherwise. And I'm personally not going to feed into this, considering how hard it is for a legal immigrant already.

My husband carries his GC with him, and he's stubborn so although I told him he'd be better off leaving it home - the decision is his.

However in some states, and some counties or cities within states, have authorized their local police to confirm immigrant status of anyone they stop if they feel the need to check.

I am Canadian, and I live in the South. As soon as I open mymouth and say one word, they know I'm not from here. While I've never been asked by a police officer to show my green card yet, there are cities around me that are authorized to do so, so I believe it is only a matter of time.

It is only a matter of time before local authorities start hassling citizens and legal immigrants more and more because of racism. Our children that have one parent that is a legal immigrant are at risk of having to prove their citizenship only because they look hispanic or asian or whatever. One of the best things about the US is that we don't have checkpoints all over that you have to stop and show ID. Those days may be over soon if states start passing thier own immigration laws. They may start setting up checkpoints that require proof of legal status or citizenship. We are getting closer and closer to seeing laws like this start to be introduced by states if things continue the way they are going.
I am all for securing our borders and verifying employment but why do we have to enable witch huts by passing laws in states that allow people to do these types of things. It will have to get worse before anything will be done to make it better.

Very good idea, the sooner we get border check points set up on the Oregon/California border the better. Stop them pesky Californians moving up here and inflating our house prices.

OMG! I had no idea that LPRs had to carry the GC with them at all times. I thought that if they got stopped, whomever had authority to ask for it, would also have access to check to verify their status.

Its funny how a replacement costs $400, but the fee for not carrying it around is only $100.

This land of the free, is sooo becoming not free, they control your every move, they spy on you, and now the stupid identity chips for USCs will be the next step. Thank goodness we all have another country to bounce to, in case it gets to crazy here (provided those that want to )

I'm with you Athena on this - if it gets as bad here, as it very well may, I'll move to my husband's country.