i think it's also worth noting that you can be scammed whether you meet in russia or over the internet. sure, it's harder to fake feelings in real life, but a good actor/con artist could do it easily.

Woops! I should clarify. I'm not against meeting online. Its not for me, but I wouldnt say its all bad. But the rest of this post I do agree with 100%.

Just pointing out that there is no reason that you need such websites, and avoiding them avoids most of these issues entirely.

I know plenty of single Russians here in the US, it is far more convenient to date someone here.

There was an agency about 6 months ago that was setting up a meet-and-greet in San Francisco for single Russian women already in the US. They were charging $1000 a head for the men, and they were doing all expenses paid for the women. I thought it was an interesting concept, and $1000/head would be pretty cheap when compared to the expense of going over there to meet. I struck up a conversation with one of the organizers (I'd already met Nadya so had no interest in the function, but I was curious to see how they saw the immigration part going), and he later wrote to me that it was a complete disaster and they were now out of business. The problem, it seemed, was that the women who are already over here have much different dating goals than the women who aren't over here.

While, I see what you are saying, I object to what I bolded. I would have never found or met my Alla if I considered a convenience factor. Hell, it is pretty easy to go to local bar and find someone. I was on a hunt for a life partner, a future wife. I was happy to explore many avenues, included websites, to accomplish that task. There is nothing wrong with using a reputable site.

In the DC area there's a online outfit called Encounters International. A Russian woman named Natasha (now a US citizen I think) runs it and it's quite unique. She has women from Russia, Ukraine and the USA. Locally, they have monthly "meet and greet" socials so American men can mingle with Russian ladies. The socials are free to members and men thinking about joining can attend a couple socials for a small fee. It's pricey to join but you're in for life and she has a one-year marriage guarantee IF you follow her instructions. One distinct thing about Encounters is Natasha keeps and posts statistics on engagements, marriages and children born from her matches...her company has been the subject of many articles including Washingtonian Magazine and The Washington Post.

Personally, I'd be concerned about the Americanization factor and also I think some of these women probably divorced their first American husband...not exactly reassuring.

I have plenty of time to heal. The last time between girl friends was two years. I was honest enough to end that one, American, because even though I liked her, I did not love her and it was not fair to her. I keep no secrets and expect the same. I am honest when I make a mistake and will admit to it and come up with a solution when I can, I expect the same. I will talk and try to work out any problem, and expect the same. It wasn't religion which kept most of my father's and grandfather's generation together for over 50 years of marriage, it was respect. I was taught that well.

She and her friends have come up with something which cost us the relationship. She doesn't expect me to give up, just give her the damn ring now. I will move on. Novosibirsk's Desperate Divorced Housewives Club came up with another brainchild, but they still wonder why they stay divorced. Go figure.

That's the right attitude to have I think. usually when something doesn't work out, it's for a good reason.

Something just does not add up. Joined Feb 28, filed N/A,...
If this situation is real, I am sorry for you - I really am.
If it's not.... well...

Good for you, I think that's a pretty healthy way of looking at it.

Best of luck to you.

Was this really just about a ring? Perhaps you should talk to her again, we are just speculating here. A ring can be a big deal - my wife loves hers...

Hey - I met my wife at a local bar, in Chicago... There is nothing wrong with that.

The thought that somehow people are different because of where they are living bothers me a bit.

i met my guy at a bar in russia.

anyway i don't think jeffrey is saying there's something wrong with meeting someone in a bar, just that it's more convenient to meet someone in a local bar who is already a USC and skip this whole long-distance visa journey... but convenience isn't the most important thing.

You rephrased my thoughts quite well there Eekee!. There is nothing wrong with looking for love anywhere. Not every person on an internet site is a scammer anymore than everyone in a bar is looking for a one night stand. I looked local and internationally, it wasn't until I found Alla that I found the kind of love I had been seeking. It was, and still is, worth all the effort and inconvenience to have her.

Agreed. For me, spending a year in Russia just aint gonna happen. I simply can't be away from my kids that long. It would also be very difficult to re-start my career when I came back. Plus my objective was never to find a "Russian Bride." That part just sorta happened. In fact, my online conversations with my girl started out as just me thinking what a hoot it was that I was talking with some dude pretending to be a Russian woman, and it was gonna be really fun to mess with him when he started shaking me down for money.

I remember when people thought it was cheesy to put your email address on your business card. Made you look amateur, like a college kid. Now you'd be hard pressed to find a card without one. The internet is becoming more and more a part of our social lives, and while the whole online dating thing might carry a stigma now, it's becoming more and more acceptable. The international dating scene won't be far behind. I'd say 10 years from now most people won't blink an eye when you say you met your Russian wife on the internet. It'll be that common. And the tipping point will be when you see an international style "Match.com." Once some entrepreneur steps in with the kind of money to build the respectability of a big operation, it'll be a whole 'nuther ballgame. (And I have no idea how respectable Match.com are, but they project a respectable image, as opposed to the sleezy operations you can see on late night TV.)

Here's the skinny. She was embarassed and harassed by the biddies at her Woman's Day Party. It was about her being embarassed. We talked a long time, just getting off the phone. No, I did not agree to send her a ring. If we stay together, she will not get a ring until she is here. We have much damage to overcome. They, the biddies, have convinced her that I will bring her here and dump her on the streets. Now, why would I spend so much money and just do that? It does not make sense. If our talk gets more positive, I will ask some of the women from Russia to email and write her. Maybe we can get it set up where they can converse by voice on the computer. She is a very confused woman now. The biddies have done major damage to her and me. Most of them are divorced and giving advice on marriage. Go figure. It was shocking that I would talk a few minutes, then tell her what happened, talk some more and tell her another thing which happened at the party. You could tell I was hitting the nail and driving fully on the first swing. I know you think I should dump her. I still see good in her. I knew since the start that she is easily pursuaded. Especially in the wrong direction. I have always chosen well in friendship. I still believe this could be good.

I know this, no more Woman's Day parties for her. No biddie parties for her either. Before you criticize me for not giving up, what would you do if you had to fight for your loved one? What is enough? We each have our own standards. I still have no guarantee. But I do not give up because I still think she is worth fighting for.

And this is a decision you're allowed to make...how?


If I were in your fight, I'd throw in the towel.

But if you're bound and determined to try to work this out, the first thing you need to do is get on an airplane and go see her in her home city. You're not going to get this worked out long distance. If, as you say, your work won't let you take the time off, then you either need to quit your job (if she really is the love of your life) or move on with a more typical relationship.

Best of luck to you.

I'll quit my job if you will support me. No one else will hire me because I am a diabetic and am handicapped. War wound. As far as me going there, it will make no difference. What she needed to know that I am telling the truth and they were lying, she has already seen. I just had to remind her. They told her I would abandon her. They harassed her to the point of almost brainwashing. The truth will work or we do not work. I have proven to her time and time again what lengths I'd go to help family.

Speaking of Charlie Brown, where HAS he been lately?

Also, i know you don't know everything because I don't know everything. I am finding things out because I am finally getting her to open up. it is confusing somewhat to me but as time goes, I am finding out good information as to what went on there.

Well good luck with that. I hope things work out for you.

Word of advice: if you're trying to patch up a relationship, not a good idea to "no more Woman's Day parties for her. No biddie parties for her either."

Im very sorry to hear about you... I pity on you and not to your girl. You know if she really loves you,
she would never listen or follow her friends. There are some friends that ruins a good life, and there are friends that are really true. True friends dont advised things like that, to let your girl get discourage
on you. And if her daughter is in the critical condition, girls wont do that, coz we all know girls we need our man not only in money matters but someone their for us "the concerns". and she needs you. not to leave you. She was a kind of strange girl huh.

Advise to you, you can take it or leave it. Call her again, talk to her but dont beg coz you might making her head big and spoiling her. Express to her how you love her, that youre concerned about her daughter and her family. If nothing change, i may say, she doesnt really loves you but your money alone. Im sorry to say this, but this is widely common already. I have had known lots of girls doing this tricks/ deeds. So beware. Just pray always that she will be inlighten.

For you girls who read this, please also loved your husband as you loved yourself. Its not easy to make money out there.please, please. You'll might say im hypocrites, yess i really love my husband and i would also say i loved his money. There's a saying "LOVE and MONEY is present. they are combined together."

So you kd4uvc, take a move now. Dont waste your life. Life is too short.
God Bless you,
Arlene

"One ring to rule them all....... "

("Dude, there was only one Trilogy, and it wasn't about a Return of the King, it was about a Return of the Jedi.")





Really?





For the OP........

It sounds like you're dealing with a Class II. (Class II is the "maybe we can get a better life" scenario type internet profile poster. They're not against finding love and international romance, but they're not all the way believing it either. In the mean time, they'll see what's out there and if it sounds good; house, Mercedes, etc., then they'll give it a whirl. She may or may not have been 100% serious from the start, but now that you've pressed the issue, "will you marry me?" it's decision time.)

There's potential, but it could go either way. She may not have been against it, but she probably wasn't all the way into it either. Now that you've upped the ante, so to speak, it's her turn to call.

My only advice here is time.

Let her decide what she wants to do. Don't press the issue too much. Let her think it over for a few days and get back to you. AND DO NOT SEND ANY MORE MONEY!!! But, let her know the money is there, if she needs it. But, only if she's serious. It's for your life together, not for her life there.

And if you really want to see what's going on, put her to "Slim's tried and true international love test." Tell her you're going to quit your job and move over there so you two can be together. Her response will tell you the truth. Base your next move on her answer. Go with your gut.

Good luck, and the more you share here, the better we can help you. Although we're all individual in this, there is a trend.

According to the guy I talked with, yes.


All good advice, except this part. While it may actually provide some insight, it's game-playing. Game-playing doesn't belong in a serious relationship. (And what is he to do if she says "great, I'll prepare for your arrival?")

Of course they're going to have different things they're looking for. Women here have "made it" to the U.S. already and their survival instincts and mate selections have also "made it" to U.S. standards. They're not looking for simply a nice guy that can take care of them; they can take care of themselves already, have been doing quite nicely for a while, thank you very much. Now, they're looking for the nice guy that can take care of them and who is RICH. And who isn't going to "pay" for them. They're not prostitutes, they're just looking for a nice man. A nice man with money, of course.

Family plays a little bit into that as well, but as far as the dating is concerned, a meet and greet here for $1000/head lacks all the initial reasons a meet and greet works in the first place. Lots of hot chicks on the cheap. Once the probability of "scoring" one is reduced, that $1000 seems like a lot to pay for what you could get for free at the local bar.

Now, a "free" meet and greet, that's going to work any day!




Serious being the key word.

For the guy, it's more of a hypothetical question.... "So what if I was to just drop everything and move there? Would that work for you? That way we could be together!"

She'll either be delighted or kind of hesitant. Instant ID on where the seriousness is.

And as far as games not being a part of serious relationships.... how do they get started???

Well...the OP is at least serious. Completely misguided, but serious. Just because she's playing games (and I'm 95% positive this is the case) doesn't mean he should.


But again...what if she says "great, let's do it!"? Now the guy has to backpedal, and he looks like the one who isn't serious. I don't see how he could explain that question away to her (his fiancee) as a hypothetical.


Hmmm...I might be guilty of semantics or poor sentence quality. Instead of "serious," maybe I should have said "healthy." Playing games is not part of a healthy relationship.

It's a weird discussion to be having for this particular case, because it's obvious that it's a one-sided relationship. The OP hasn't come to terms with the fact that she is--at best--not serious, and has absolutely no intention of marrying him. My/our comments would be pertinent for a normal relationship that's on the rocks. This relationship isn't just on the rocks, it's completely busted apart on the rocks, and the OP is clinging to a piece of driftwood with an anchor wrapped around his ankle, all the while insisting that not only is he still on a ship, but that there was a ship in the first place. (bad metaphor quota for the week: used.)

If a woman really wants to marry you, she wants to marry you and won't listen to her friends. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if there was something else going on... maybe a liubovnik. trust me, I'm a woman, and if I loved someone and knew they loved me I wouldn't play these kinds of games.

I very much agree with you!

Like I said before. Sounds to me like there is someone else in the picture that perhaps the OP doesn't know about. A "friend" wouldn't be enough to keep a woman from getting married. But a secret "other" would.

I've been taking this all in and I think either this guy is a Satellite wannabe running a good story on us, or a rookie of the lowest order. Either way I don't see how this forum is the right venue to run out this soap opera. There's other web sites for meeting Russian women, match-making, how to date FSU women, and scammers, etc.

I certainly don't see a fiancee visa in this guy's future with this woman should any of this story be true. But I'm betting this guy is laughing his a** off at us folks for responding to this Russian bride "tall tale."

I will also offer that, in my experience, it's unlikely today to find Russian women who think American men are going to dump them on the streets of America or do some kind of "reverse scam." Almost every Russian woman has a friend, relative or colleague who married an American man and had a good result. Yes, there might be envy among the so called "biddies' but Russian women know Russian women...and this woman is no youngster, so she ought to be hip to the ways of pettiness one might encounter in Siberian social circles.

And if they actually had a real meeting in St. Petersburg, usually such a meeting reveals the vibes the couple has going on. If the woman met this guy and still listens to "biddies" and walks away from what might be her one shot for getting out of Siberia...well that does not feel right to me.

On top of that, she has a sick child and I've been to a Siberia hospital...and if my kid was really sick I'd do whatever it takes to get them out of Russia and to the USA. Additionally, Siberia has a very high women to men ratio...so women are beating the bushes to find husbands...certainly not a place to be difficult and cavalier towards a potential American husband for lack of an engagement ring. And how would that expensive ring be delivered anyway? DHL? How romantic!

I try to suspend my disbelief here but it's tough...very tough to buy in on this drama that has story line that changes every few days. Whether BS artist or rookie, maybe we need to offer him some tough love..and say bye bye.

Well Damn! My man just laid the hammer down!

KaBOOM-!!!

t's just so mean.
But hey, think that you probably got rid of a pain in the a$$ now, before you got married to her and things would get more complicated,
You know, it's not even her friend's fault.When you're inlove and you have faith in your loved one you know not to listen this B S..tt
comming from people that are not really designed to give advises.
Not to feel frustrated you can be angry REALLY ANGRY .
how far did you go ewiht her?

Stop, panty time!

Ahhh yes......This reminds me of a few conversations I was involved in, one way or another, back in the 9th grade. I wanted to score a homerun so bad, I even joined the school's baseball team! and you know, I turned out to be pretty damn good at it!

I hope I didn't offend BryantAliona. There was absolutely nothing wrong with their post. I just couldn't resist.




YAY!!! I panty time!

sorry to be the harsh voice of reason here, but if she is taking her friend's word over yours, she doesn't love you....

I hate to say it... but TRUST ME ON THIS ONE... As much as it hurts right now, and believe me I know it hurts, I've been there..

...I don't mean to be harsh or cruel, but you need to walk away.... with your dignity intact... find a girl who will love you unconditionally...

...Take my advice with a grain of salt, it is only my opinion... I hope it works out for the best, no matter what you decide...

another late arrival.

Why is it so difficult for guys to read the 38-point, boldfaced writing on the wall? This woman does not love you, she does not even like you, she has no respect for you. If you continue down this path with her you'll be milked for everything she can get from you and then finally tossed aside. Her behavior isn't something that stems from cultural differences or because her friends have brainwashed her. (Quite the opposite, really: I'd bet my next paycheck that her girlfriends admire and envy her for the way she has played you. Only a virtuoso could treat a guy like garbage and then have him crawling back for more.)



We sure do.

Since my post (see post #80) our friend, kd4uvc, disappeared. Anyone surprised?

Not in the least!

I'm of 2 minds on kd4uvc. I'm sympathetic to anyone who is led to believe they're in love, only to find out they've been scammed. That has to suck in every imaginable way. On the other hand, kd4uvc needs to man up and accept the situation for what it is, instead of pouring more time, emotion, and money into something that is not going to be true no matter how much he wants it to be.

It's no surprise that he's gone. We were pretty harsh to him, but it needed to be done. And since there's no way she's going to go along with a K-1 application, he's really lost most of the reason to be here anyway.

This really is the resurrecting old threads day.

I don't think anyone was harsh on him. If he managed to patch things up, great for him. But having carefully read every post in this thread, one thought comes to mind...

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me!

Love, true love, is unmistakable in its intensity, sincerity and identity. It can happen face to face, over the phone and on the internet; in a bar, at a party or on a bus. Geography is less important but does affect opportunity. Every word the OP wrote about his experiences with his special lady describes textbook scamming. If he, or anyone else thinks the posters here were harsh, please visit Fiance.com (I am not advocating their web site, quite the opposite!) and their forums and try this story out. The OP would have been slaughtered.

The comments here were intelligent and truthful and as best as I could tell, well intentioned. A few of the posts were the best advice I have seen on this subject in quite some time. It remains the OP's decision on how to deal with his situation. As Robert Heinlein wrote" People seldom learn from their own experiences, they'll be damned if they'll learn from the experiences of others".

Mox, Slim & Jeff... you are wise beyond your years!

Nice post! Thanks for the kind words Navarreman! But I is getting up there in age!

You stole my quote haha
Well said everyone you nailed it!

I'm not sure if the OP was being scammed or we were. OP suddenly appeared on the forum with a sad tale of woe and his story read like a bad soap opera script. Given the recent bogus Satellite thread about his wife leaving him, and all the attention that got, I think we had a copycat poster...maybe. If not, we met the rookie to beat all rookies. But I tend to go with him being a BS artist as he disappeared as quickly as he showed up.

When we stopped taking the bait, the fun was over and he split.