My fiancee lives and working in Hong Kong, and hearing of the problems / difficulties with obtaining an anullment in Philippines, she filed for divorce in Hong Kong. The divorce was completed entirely legally.....But will the US Embassy in Manila grant her K1 Visa with the Hong Kong divorce?

We have already filed and recieved NOA1...any comments or suggestions will be helpful!

have a blessed day!

She and her husband were married in the PI and I'm assuming they're both Filipino citizens. I dont know how a foreign government can have a legal jurisdiction over her marriage. I'm sure what she did in Hongkong was legal but I'm not sure if its legal in the Philippines which I believe matters more.

You might need to consult an immigration attorney on this one. Or hopefully someone else had a very similar experience.

It'll be very interesting to know how the USCIS and/or US embassy will take a look at this case.

You indicated that you've already filed for K1. There's really not much you can do here but wait to see if USCIS will approve the petition.

Good luck

You should've asked first before filing for a K-1 petition.your fiancee i bet is just working in Hongkong so her citizenship is still Filipino and since divorce is not being acknowledged here in the Philippines,it'll not be honored.she still has to file for an annulment in order to be legally free to get married again.

check this out : Philippines

and just like what noelandtintin said,you might want to consult a lawyer for legal advice.

good luck

Thanks for the link. Very informative. Just realized that even if Steven_Shirley gets past USCIS, they might not get past the embassy which requires a CENOMAR (Certificate of No MArriage)

Divorce is not recognized in the Philippines, and since she got married in the Philippines, the marriage must be annulled there. In the NSO records, she remains married even with the divorce obtained abroad.

Or she needs to become a chinese citizen in order for the divorce to be recognized.

i agree to the ppl who wrote above... unless if she married a foreigner back then, then the foreigner filed a divorce then its ok "but" it has to be reported in the the phil govt to make it legal... but if both filipino then it has to be annulment in phil.

my understanding...

I got my divorced in HK, too. The difference was, my papers was proccessed in HK US Embassy instead in Manila US Embassy. Everything went well in HK US Embassy...so can't give you any advice how they proccess the papers in Manila US Embassy. They didn't ask my CENOMAR (certificate of no marriage record) coz' I showed my divorced papers as well my marriage records from my ex-husband (he is a filipino) from NSO. If the beneficiary was single they have to present CENOMAR. I guess she'll be fine coz' she can't have the divorce done if her ex-husband didn't sign those document before filing it in the HK court for divorce.

Goodluck!

If you file while she's in PI she need to be annulled if filed while she's in HK no need for annulment then.......

very interesting. so you filed for divorce in HK and processed the K1 visa there and got the approval??? no annulments or anything from the philippines? sorry if i'm being redundant here....but that gives my friend some hope! thanks for the info!!

I thought it had something to do with one of the couple's citizenship and not where one files a K1 visa application.

Lets say, Im a filipino married to a filipina. You mean I can just go to any country, get divorced, File a I-129F for my fiance?
And as long as the benificiary is outside the Philippine when that K1 is filed, its ok? It doesnt seem right to me.

First of all, one files the I-129F application in the US. Not Hongkong or Manila, unless its a DCF.

Secondly... a Philippine citizen, married in the Philippines (where divorced is not allowed) to a Philippine citizen, filed for divorced in Hongkong (where neither one of the married couple is a citizen of), so her US citizen fiance can file for her I-129F application. I'm not a lawyer but there seems to be a lot of holes in this logic.

I said if he filed while she's in HK working it will be fine,I didn't say he will file in HK or in Manila cause obviously you should file at USCIS there's lot of Pinays in the other forum who processed their papers in HK while working in HK, if this is possible since she's staying in HK now the divorce decree is then recognize, just my opinion, consult a lawyer for sure

But if she's in PI annulment is needed for sure cause of the NSO name check

This is very interesting. And very lucky for you that the US embassy in Hongkong recognized the divorce decree issued there. It only means that the embassy is not aware of our laws regarding divorce. Under Philippine laws, you are still married to your filipino husband since you are both Filipino citizens and divorce is not recognized in the Philippines. But , filing the divorce in HOngkong and the K1 visa worked good for you and you are here now so thats all that matters.

The US Embassy was aware about the Philippine family law...it would be fraud if my foreign husband and I got married in the Philippines knowing my divorce decree is not applicable there....that's why I came here as a K1 visa. The US Embassy recognized my divorce decree because it was issued by the HK court (gov't) where they recognize divorce, too.

Recognize by who? The US government?

There's a case here of a man who got is I-130 denied because his marriage wasnt recognized in the UK. It make sense since the US govt needs to respect the laws of other countries.

If what you're saying about the OP's case is true, it seems like a blatant dis-regard of US government of Philippine laws. If this is true, this is a big loophole. I didn't know one can just say... OK, since you're married to someone else and divorced is not allowed there, go to Hongkong, file for a divorce there, and live there for a while while I file your I-129F.

If this is true, at what point in the process can she safely go back to Philippines? And when the interview date comes, where is she having it? Hongkong or Manila?

Sorry for the 20 questions. I can't find anything in the family code of the Philippines that allows divorced between two filipinos so I know for a fact that the OP's fiance is "still" married in the Philippines. I'm just trying to get my little head around this seemingly big loophole where once can "just" go to Hongkong or anywhere divorced is recognize. It seems awfully easy. Too easy.

She will be interviewed in HK if she puts in the 129F addy is HK, it doesn't mean that if you're a Filipino you need to go home in your country and have your interview there....the divorce is recognize by US since you're in HK territory, on the other hand on Philippine Law you're still married with your ex when you go back to PI........

actually this is what's happening when someone can't get an annulment in PI for some reason, but this idea is happening because in PI even if your annulled people still get married and have second and third wife without getting annulled... not everyone can afford to get an annulment

I believe they are not aware of this law:

Under Book 1 of the Civil Code of the Philippines :

Art. 15. Laws relating to family rights and duties, or to the status, condition and legal capacity of persons are binding upon citizens of the Philippines, even though living abroad. (9a)

It is very clear that for a Filipino Citizen, no matter where we are in the world, we are bound by our laws relating to family matters which include marriage among others. Therefore , one can only conclude based on the law above that if one obtains a divorce decree from any country, the same is not valid in the Philippines because our government doesnt recognize divorce so the divorce decree you obtained is not applicable there.

Under our Philippine laws, you are still legally married to your Filipino husband and your marriage still exist in the records of the National Statistics Office.

The only instance that a divorce decree obtained abroad is valid in the Philippines is if either one of the couple is a non-filipino citizen and he/she obtains divorce against the filipino spouse abroad (Family CodeArt. 26. xxxxx Where a marriage between a Filipino citizen and a foreigner is validly celebrated and a divorce is thereafter validly obtained abroad by the alien spouse capacitating him or her to remarry, the Filipino spouse shall have capacity to remarry under Philippine law. (As amended by Executive Order 227)


Im just curious also if you ever had your divorce decree registered in the Local Civil Registrar of the place where you married your Filipino husband?

And your Filipino husband cant marry again , even with the divorce decree obtained in Hongkong, that if he wants to marry in the Philippines, or he still can, by not divulging his marriage to you.

Anyhow, the bottomline is, you are here now and filing the K1 in Hongkong worked for you BUT, in my opinion, being in the legal field, you are still legally married to your Filipino husband in the Philippines as what the others here have correctly replied.

Godbless.

I wish to thank all of you for your efforts and replies to my original topic / question. Just so all of you are aware, I was eventually able to make contact with the USE in Manila regarding my Phil fiancée’s divorce in Hong Kong. After looking through her regulations, she reported "I have good news for you." then she stated something like...since the marriage would take place in the US (which recognizes HK divorces) she would be considered free to marry and so she could obtain the K1 Visa. She further noted, however, that I could not marry her in Phil and then use a K3 since my fiancée is not free to marry there due to lack of annulment.

It is clear from what I have been able to see, Phil recognizes only annulment between Phil nationals, however, the visa is being offered through the US government at the request of a US citizen and the marriage is to take place under US jurisdiction. It is only for that reason that the USE is able to approve the K1 visa despite her still being legally married in Phil (but I might add, not in most other countries which recognize divorce - for instance she could marry in HK to an HK Citizen).

Also, FYI, the attorney she used in HK reported that she has had other clients who were divorced in HK and then married in the US and were living there legally. I do not know if they filed for K1 in HK or Phil. We are only filing through Phil (Manila) because in addition to the other errors in her documents, her Phil passport is inaccurate. She will need to correct that before going for interview but once she does, she is in danger of being accused of fraud by HK immigration if she returns to HK....she has heard of other domestic helpers who have been jailed for correcting errors years later and then returning to HK on corrected documents only to accused and arrested by HK officials suspecting them of trying to mislead HK about their identity.

Additionally, an attorney I spoke with was able to identify records of proceedings in which the Phil fiancée / spouse was acknowledged to have a divorce but not annulment and it was not looked at as a problem. However, he was so far unable to locate any regulations that directly state the acceptance / rejection of a foreign divorce for Phil citizen.

Finally, due to the fact that Phil will never recognize the divorce we are most likely going to proceed with getting annulment any way....now that we know of a way it can be obtained in under a year (THANK YOU VJer's You are SOOO helpful!) but we will not use it in the K1 process since we have already filed....but unless we can bring her boys over (might be complicated due to ex husband's attitude - not likely to give permission- though one boy is 18) she will have ongoing reasons to at least visit Phil and we want her to be legally safe there.

THanx again and have a blessed day!

This is a loophole then. But dont get me wrong, I'm happy for the OP but I think it is not right for the US governtment to disregard Philippine law.

I'm not saying I agree or dis-agree with our no divorce law in Philippines. I'm saying.. It is the law. And frankly, technically, the OP's fiance is still married in the Philippines and the US government shouldnt allow other foreign countries law to supercede Philippines.

Just my .02.

Congratulations that finally you found an answer to this difficult issu which we , the other members also learned a lot. The USEM is right, just dont marry in the Philippines since legally, the divorce is not recognized there but the good thing is that it is possible for her to be approved with the divorce decree obtained from Hongkong.

The regulation that directly rejects a foreign divorce for a Phil citizen is in the Family Code of the Philippines itself where it states that the only way to declare a marriage null and void is thru annulment . The difference is that in Divorce, the grounds for it can be anything as long as both parties do not contest while in Philippine annulment, the grounds are exclusive.

I wish you all the best and hopefully, we will see a post here very soon that your lady is already here.

Goodluck and keep us posted.

Some Filipino couples (both married back in the Philippines) came here in the USA and later their marriage was failed, they filed a divorce here and married another filipino (again!). Do you think they register their marriage in the Philippines? I don't think so. Before I file my divorce decree in HK, my ex-husband was married twice to another woman already. Why I did not sue him a begamy? Do I need to waste my time and money to him? His kids to his new family need him...what I want is my freedom but filing an annulment back in the Philippines is very expensive. Hope we can avail a legal aid from the Philippines, in HK I had my divorce processed by the help of the HK legal aid who paid the lawyer. Philippine family law is only for the rich people who can pay those crooked lawyers....you can't pay a lawyer no case! My ex-husband knows better where he stand coz' he's married twice before the divorce.

You didnt mention in your original post that your filipino husband was married twice before the divorce. . now this makes all the difference. If your filipino husband was married twice before he married you, then there was really no marriage between you and him in the first place. Ergo, no need for the divorce or an annulment.

What I am trying to explain is that, Filipino citizens, if they are legally married in the Philippines, even if they obtained a divorce decree abroad, such is not valid in the Philippines because it doesnt recognize divorce.

Yes, I know of Filipino couples who came here and got married to another even if their marriage in the Philippines is not anulled yet, the divorce might be valid here, but not in the Philippines. My point is simple, a divorce obtained by a Filipino citizen abroad, against a filipino spouse, is not binding in the Philippines, this is the law. I think my point is clear.

As I have mentioned earlier, the process you took worked for you , so thats all that matters , really. I am just pointing out the legality of the issue at hand because the OP's beneficiary is in the Philippines, unlike your situation where you were interviewed in the US Embassy in Hongkong. This is all about the OP's situation.

Im sorry to hear that you have encountered crooked lawyers, but we are not all the same. My mother is a great lawyer and judge, and I know I am a respectable lawyer when I was still in the Philippines and I am proud to be one.

Anyhow, as I've mentioned earlier, you are here now, thats all that matter. Im sure you read the other posts here and we all agree about the legality of a divorce obtained abroad, not just me.

Godbless.

Myla

I'm sorry mentioning crooked lawyers...it so happened I encountered one back 1997. Actually, I was the first wife, the 2nd wife filed null and void to the court already but the 3rd wife stick to him coz' they had 2 kids now...

What matters now is we both respect our decision and happy with each own family.

Bottom line is. . .. Congress should just push through with that Divorce Bill while election is still far away.

Great Post
My Fiancé is also a Filipina living in Hong Kong and also was divorced there
we had these thoughts if she was terminated from contract during the K1 process could she have her interview in Manila

whatever work....I love Philippines but not our constitution. Some of laws in Phils doesn't make sense at all.

Rather than reply to several posts individually...I will share several thoughts here in a single reply:

I don't think it matters if the ex-husband signs the HK divorce papers. If both don't agree on the divorce...it simply becomes a contested divorce. If there were valid grounds for the divorce, the divorce should succeed whether the other party signs or not. When both sign, it's cheaper and faster to conclude the divorce...but the signature of both parties should not be required.

The USCIS did not honor Philippine law because the HK court did not honor Philippine law. I can find lots of countries that will not honor the Philippine's no-divorce law. It is commonly accepted in international law that one's domicile (not citizenship) typically determines which court (and associated laws) has jurisdiction over a matter. Laws often only make sense within the countries that make them. If you reside somewhere other than the country in which a law was made, courts look at the problem realistically. Your "home" of an indefinite period of time (or, "domicile") will determine which which court has the authority to decide. Things get very complicated very fast if courts try to look at it any other way. (If you live in Siberia for 40 years with no intention to leave...which countries law should apply if you were born in the Philippines?)

Interestingly enough, even the Philippines is forced to recognize divorce in the case of a foreign spouse of a Filipino that obtains a divorce. So...there divorce IS actually acknowledged and defended in Philippine law. It's just that if you are a Filipino national that initiates the divorce, you are fresh out of luck.

You are right.It is one's domicile that determines which court has jurisdiction over a case that has a foreign element in it, when it comes to Filipinos living abroad, EXCEPT laws affecting family matters.For us Filipinos, its the citizenship that rules ( Under Book 1 of the Civil Code of the Philippines : Art. 15. Laws relating to family rights and duties, or to the status, condition and legal capacity of persons are binding upon citizens of the Philippines, even though living abroad ) IF A FILIPINO CITIZEN MARRIES ANOTHER FILIPINO CITIZEN IN THE PHILIPPINES , no matter how many divorces he/she obtains abroad which is not registered in the Philippines, his/her marital status remains married in the records of our NSO until such time that the same is being annuled by a Philippine Court. We are talking here about Filipino citizens who married IN THE PHILIPPINES. This makes all the difference.

In fact it was worst before the Family Code was enacted because a Filipino citizen remained married even if the foreign spouse has obtained a divorce from his country, hence the amendment to give the Filipino citizen automatic status of unmarried once the foreign spouse has been issued the divorce decree abroad.

The fact remains that , these divorces may be valid outside the Philippines, recognized by other countries BUT, when one returns there he or she is still married to their Filipino spouse and their marriage still exist in our records, BUT as you said if a Filipino citizen lives in Siberia for 40 years and has no intention to leave then it doesn't really matter.

There are numerous cases like this decided by the Supereme Court in the Philippines and they have not been superseded by new decisions stating otherwise.

On a different note, when a Filipino citizen marries OUTSIDE THE PHILIPPINES, in a country where divorce is recognized, now this makes all the difference. She can legally obtain a divorce despite her citizenship.

The law maybe harsh but it is the law.

Understood that the Filipino obtaining a foreign divorce remains married in the Philippines. My guess is that if the divorce enabled the Filipino to remarry and move to the US or Canada or the UK or wherever...then the Philippine law is of no interest or consequence to them anyway...unless they intend to relocate back to the Philippines (are we saying the same thing here?). I'd speculate, however, that most don't ever plan to move back...so the Philippine law is not "law" at all to them. For those few (assuming it is a few) that want to relocate back to the Philippines....they will have some tough decisions to make (get an annulment from the first spouse...and afterward remarry the same person they are already bigamously married to? continue living legally married outside the Philippines...versus... live in a bigamous marriage in the Philippines? wait until the other Filipino spouse dies...and then move back?)

I completely acknowledge that divorce is not allowed and/or accepted in the Philippines in most cases. I also acknowledge that such a restriction of personal freedom is rare in this world. There are only two countries that actually ban divorce -- the Philippines and Malta. So...it should not be a surprise to anyone that most countries will not single out their residents of Philippine origin to enforce the internationally rare and uncommon "no divorce" laws of the Philippines.

Bottom line: As long as you are legal where you reside...who cares? This Philippine law can be turned "on" or "off" based on where you choose to live. Anyone living outside of the Philippines need not even waste time discussing this Philippine law -- as it simply is NOT law outside of the Philippines. So...if one wants to remain legal...don't move back (or be prepared to deal with Philippine law ONLY at such time that one relocates). The Philippine Supreme Court car reaffirm its no divorce law for Philippine nationals as often as it wants. Unenforceable laws simply are not law...and this is the case outside of the Philippines. No Filipino national need fear anything at with a foreign divorce...as they are no longer subject to Philippine law outside of the Philippines.

Apologies for all of the redundancy here. I have attempted to err on the side of being overly clear for those not up-to-speed on this subject. Based on much uninformed talk...many Filipinos fear they will be breaking the law with a foreign divorce. They need to understand that their fear is completely unwarranted...and that they are 100% legal as long as they reside outside the Philippines. The Philippine law simply does not exist in such a case.

Can someone confirm for me that divorce for a Filipina working in Singapore is similar to Hong Kong? Minimal residence duration in Singapore (3-6 months) of the divorce applicant is expected by the judge as additional evidence of Singapore domicile? The courts will handle a contested (unilateral) divorce between two Filipino nationals married in the Philippines? No issues with USCIS accepting a Singaporean divorce in such a case? Any "gotchas" that one should be aware of in the situation described above?

If one found out that her/his spouse has a previous marriage and never gotten an annulment and wants to remarry again,he/she needs to file for a declaration of nullity of marriage because failure to do so will be a possible charge for bigamy (LINK)

for those who cant afford to pay for a private lawyer but wants to file for an annulment,we have the Public Attorney's Office(PAO) who are willing to help people provided they could get a certificate of Indegency from the Department of Social Welfare and Development(DSWD) near their place

Exactly. As long as the second marriage to the USC is done outside the Philippines, the law doesn't really matter because the act was committed outside of the country where that particular law applies.Suffice to say , as long as Filipino citizens obtain divorces outside the Philippines and remarry outside the Philippines and live outside the Philipines , everything is well. No need to fear.

Wow! Thanks for the thread and responses. I have something else to add to my tool belt.

Cheers!!!

Sheriff Uling

I'm really not sure why people dont get anullments. All these things seems complicated, especially since I know annulments in the Philipiines are very easy to do.

I know annulments cost a bit of money but if I'm really in love with some one in the PI that is currently married, I would want her to NOT be married to someone else in the PI or any other country.

Like the Sheriff said in another unrelated thread.... You gotta pay to play.

Annulments are not very easy to do and its not a bit of money as you have put it. Its a lot of money and time involve. It took me 2 years to get mine. I even heard from court employees 3 cases before me getting denied by the judge. Some have gotten it faster because they have the money to bribe the psychologist, prosecuting attorney and the judge. I heard there is what they call "package deal" nowadays. Some lawyers even offer a non-appearance to court. The judge who handled my case does not accept public attorneys for annulments unless its for criminal cases. So if you are a poor filipina married to a jerk, I don't think you will get a chance at it.

You think the same as my fiance.I wish other men think the way you do especially the Filipino men.Most of them dont want to pay for the annulment,they have the guts of marrying another woman without resolving their first marriage yet,they said it'll just be a waste of time and money.

As for my case,i was the one who filed for declaration of nullity and paid my lawyer when I found out that he has an existing marriage and never had a plan of getting an annulment,the price is worth it considering the peace of mind that i could get.

But please be reminded that an annulment or declaration of nullity is not very easy to do especially if the case is filed in Manila where there lots of backlogs (I never knew then it can be filed anywhere)my case was like finding a needle in a haystack,I thought it will never be over,but God is really amazing,it's true that God always make a way when there seems to be no way.after almost 3yrs of waiting for it to be over,I'm now free to marry my fiance

Wow! Most annulments I've seen didnt take three years. It only took between $500 to $2,000 to grease the right people's hand. :-)

Congrats & good luck btw!!! Now you're free to enjoy the rest of your lives without worrying about the "legal" spouse in the Philippines.

I wasnt referring to poor filipinas married to a jerk. I was reffering to filipinas married to foreigners where surely the "annulment fees" are a little bit more "affordable".

My post is just my opinion and it is probably what I would have done if I was in the OP's situation. I'm not saying it is the right thing to do. I'd rather save up a couple or even a few thousand dollars to bribe everyone, including the husband, so I can bring my fiance here worry free of everything.

Like I said, if I really love someone, I dont want her to be married to anyone else. you can talk about the legalities in other countries all you want but the legality AND reality of it all is.... the fiance is STILL married in the Philippines.

Thank you,yes,i am now worry free and glad that i have decided to file for a declaration for nullity even before I met my fiance.The reason why it took so long was I didnt make any follow ups with my lawyer,and he was so lax since he was already fully paid even before he filed it in the court.Also,i didnt have any special someone at that time.it was only when i met my fiance that I became persistent.that's because I want to be married to him and good enough,after just a few months of personally following it up to the court,I was there almost everyday,talking and bugging all the people in court including the judge,she finally signed the decision January of this year
Now we're just waiting for our NOA2,hoping and praying it'll be soon

God is really good!

Annulments in the Philippines can be particularly difficult if one of the parties does everything possible to sabotage the annulment. Because annulment is not based on a "no-fault" principle...you could be out a lot of money to get it through court...and with no guarantee of success.

What even scarier is possible delays when the other spouse wants to sabotage. For many...annulment in the Philippines is not a realistic option. A Hong Kong divorce starts to sound a lot more attractive to many...assuming the Filipino can find work in HK (or is already working there).