I just read the posts about the people who got RFE'd and it seems to me like they sent more stuff then I did.

Here is what I sent:

Copy of GC
Copy of military dependant ID
Copy of our son's Birth Certificate
Copy of car insurance with both names
Copy of last 2 lease agreements in both names
Copy of Power of attorney DH gave me
Copy of DH's life insurance showing me as sole beneficiary
Copy of my life insurance with DH as beneficiary
Copy of last 3 years tax transcripts

Think it's enough? I sure hope so!

Here is what I sent....

Copy of my Greencard (front and back)
2005 & 2006 joint tax returns
Deads for the house (naming us both as owners)
Mortgage statment (in both names)
Old Lease agreement (in both names and showing old address)
Statement from Joint checking account
Statement from joint savings account
Statement from joint credit card account (showing acctivity for both names)
Electric bill in husbands name
Gas bill in husbands name
Phone bill in my name
Car insurance (listing us both as drivers)
My health care proxy naming my husband
Life insurance policy for me (showing husband as beneficiary)
Life insurance policay for husband (showing me as beneficiary)
IRA in my name (showing husband as beneficiary)
IRA in husbands name (showing me as beneficiary)
Medical & Dental insurance Printout showing us both as being covered
401K in my name (showing husband as benificiary)
AAA membership in joint names
Reciept for furniture (in joint names and new address)
Alarm system agreament (in joint names and new address)
Travel Itinery from our trip to Scotland in 2006 (with boarding passes and photos from the trip)
Travel itinery from our trip to Orlando in May 2007 ( with boarding passes and photos)
Postcard from my Granddaughter (addressed to us both)
Postcards from my Parents from their round the world trip (addressed to us both)
An assortment of photos showing us on 4th July and other family occations
The last Valentines day cards we gave each other....


Kez

I think because you have a child together, and because you sent in the lease agreements and tax transcripts, you won't have any problems. Kids are the ace in the hole. As long as you've touched on the other areas in which they require evidence, which you have, you should be okay.

We send:

Tax returns 2004, 2005 and 2006
lease from 2004 to 2006
letter from our landlord
Utility bills under my and his name
Bank accounts under both names
Insurance car, under both names
two affidavit from 2 friends
A letter invitation to a wedding with or 2 names
copy of green card front and back
copy of driver licenses (of course with the same address)
wedding pictures

and I think that is it....

Thanks for your answers. I guess if they ask for some more, I could always send them our daughter's Birth Certificate. She was born AFTER we sent the I-751. I think that would probably do it! Hopefully you are right James, I figured what I sent was plenty and touched pretty much all areas of what they required.

Well we dont have any kids, and dont plan on having any, and for anyone to think that having kids is a way to "prove" your relationship is valid is just stupid in my opinion

Of the 5 pieces of evidence the USCIS specifically asks for, birth certificates of children born to the marriage is # 4... so I would say it rates pretty high on the scale of proving you have a bona fide marriage. Please don't get all defensive because you choose not to have children, it's your choice and we respect that... its our choice to have children and yes, it definitely helps the cause.

Oh I am not getting defensive believe me. Of course it is on the list of things required by the USCIS, but doesnt mean just because you have kids you have aced the application.

hmmm... thinking of a kid as an ace in the hole...

I know Sister Fracas, it kind of gave me the . But I don't think James meant it in a mean way - he's way too classy for that.

No need to call anyone "stupid" for voicing their opinion. How would you like it if I call you a child-hating newbie? Of course I would never say such a thing.

Might I point out that what one attempts to "prove" with an I-751 petition is not that the "relationship is valid," but rather that the marriage was not entered into to evade the immigration laws.

One would be hard-pressed to argue that a marriage with children was entered into to evade the immigration laws. Although social mores have changed some, the traditional purpose of marriage has always been procreation.

It is one thing to marry someone just to get a green card. It is quite another thing to marry someone and have their children just to get a green card.

Especially for those of us that want kids and can't seem to have any. Referring to them as an "ace in the hole" is very disheartening.

Ok, lets make some kids quickly ,maybe that will speed up a bit Nebraska Service Center
The question is ,how many to prove the relation is genuine ?????


You get to hear something new every day on this forum

I think some people are just a little bit too touchy sometimes. All James meant as far as I can see is that children are VERY strong evidence that the marriage was not entered into for the purpose of circumventing immigration laws. I know one thing, if I was only after a green card and didn't love my husband, I sure wouldn't be having his children!

And for those who are trying to have kids and are having a hard time, trust me, I am not being insensitive. DH and I have lost 2 babies before having our son and another one before having our daughter. So yeah, I have been there and I feel your pain. That being said, I was not at all offended by the comment James made. I know first hand how it feels to want children and not seem to be able to so Good Luck to those of you who are trying and I hope it happens for you really soon.

Unless you are including a DNA test result for any children and your husband, it is no better evidence than any other evidence..... It would not be the first time that babies daddy is not the husband.....

Just because you have a child does not prove that your marriage is any more real than a couple with no children.....

I could say that people like me and my husband, who are on the older side, should be approved quickly because we have already lived over half of our expected lifespan so we are not likely to enter into something just get a greencard when we have had to leave our adult children and grandchildren in another country....


Kez

A birth certificate is "no better evidence than any other evidence"? That's a laughable statement, and I would bet that deep down you recognize that. No better than jasman's 5 affidavits? No better than the landlord's "letter" saying, yeah, only hubby is on the lease, but wifey lives with him? No better than the cable bill with both names on it? No better than photos from some party? No better than your joint AAA membership or the furniture receipt with both names?

Puh-leez.

The law is quite clear on this. The fact that the parents are married legally establishes paternity. No DNA test required. End of story.

Also, your observation that a child doesn't prove that a marriage is "more real" than a marriage without children misses the point entirely. This is not a contest to see whose marriage is "more real" (whatever that means). It's a yes or no question: is the marriage genuine or not? A child establishes that far more readily than all of your other evidence.

While I feel for those who want children and cannot have them -- for children ARE the purpose of marriage (and no right-wing religious kook am I) -- this thread has a number of patently ridiculous statements.

Your statements are what let you down.... how many people get married because they want children... Marriage has many purposes, I did not mary my husband because we needed to have children.... I married my husband because I wanted to be with him.... If I had been a USC we would not have got married, we would have been partners.... not because we dont want or cant have children but because we dont need a piece of paper to make our feelings real...

It is your opinion the children are the reason for marriage... but just because you have a child does not prove your marriage is any more gunuine than mine.... As for your statement about a legal marriage proves paternity... that is a load of crap... there are 1000's of wives who get child support from someone other than their husband.... you only have to watch some of these daytime TV programmes to see married couples having DNA tests done to find out if husband is the father of their child.....

As far as immigration goes, yes a child born to the couple is a strong piece of evidence, but that does not equate to people with children being approved any faster that people without children, otherwise you would not still be waiting while others have been approved ahead of you....

Kez(To old to have kids and been there done that)

You're not looking at things from a legal perspective, which is what counts here. This is a legal process, not the Dr. Phil show. Although times have obviously changed, and society no longer views marriage as a prerequisite for cohabitation (or in some quarters, no longer views being of the opposite sex as a prerequisite for marriage), marriage is still viewed legally as a vehicle for having children. It is the legal link between having sex and family responsibility.

Flowing from that is the legal presumption of paternity that attaches to a child born of the marriage. A man is presumed to be the father of a child if he is married to the mother and the child was born during the marriage. Period. Far from being a "load of crap," as you put it, it is the law in every state in this nation. You may think marriage is just a piece of a paper. The law does not.

My original point remains: because my wife and I have had two children together, it is easier for us to prove that she did not enter into the marriage to evade the immigration laws than it is for you to prove the same. As I mentioned, marrying someone for a green card is done all of the time. Having that same person's children just for a green card would be extraordinary.

I'm with Kezzie on this one. Both my husband and I are past our child-bearing years. Heck, his daughter/my step-daughter is older than many of the people on this list filing for immigration benefits! Having children is definitely NOT the reason to get married and I think you might have some later marriage issues if you believe that is the main reason you and your spouse got married - so you can have children. Your narrow definition of the purpose of marriage ignores the reality of marriage. Yes, it provides a legal 'presumed' paternity for children born to the woman in a marriage for the purposes of property rights, support, etc.. That legal relationship remains between the husband and wife regardless of whether or not there are children involved. If the sole purpose of getting married was to have children, then once a woman is menopausal her husband should obviously divorce her, put her out to pasture and get himself a younger model still capable of breeding! You are basically saying that my husband and I should not be married because we are older and will no longer have children. I suspect the two of you are still very, very young chronologically and have not yet had much life experience.

Marriage is also NOT the legal process for having children, btw. Childbirth is a biological experience and the courts recognize that children born outside of marriage have their legal rights as well. Regardless if the father is married to the mother or not the court will still issue a child support order to the non-custodial parent when the couple separate. Marriage provides only 'assumed' paternity, not actual.

While having children provides good evidence that the marriage was not entered into to evade immigration laws, there is nothing to stop someone who wishes to use marriage to gain a green card from fathering or giving birth to a child -and then abandoning that child and their partner. A marriage entered into by two people because they are interested in each other as individuals, as people they want to spend their lives with, has equally good resources to prove a valid marriage. Children are not required.

Well said ....I'm sure some people here will complain again but,that's nothing new !

While I agree that having children does not absolutely prove anything, you will have to agree that MOST married women do not have a child that is not their husband's. Some do of course, but it is far from being the majority. And on a lighter note, anyone who saw my kids next to their daddy would NEVER doubt that he is the daddy! You would swear he made them by himself! LOL

I think the point is that having children is such a strong peice of evidence because it effectively ties you to the other person for quite a long time and if you were only after immigration benefits, that is probably not something you would do. While people who get divorced can go their seperate way and never have any contact again, couples who have kids are a different matter. Yes of course, it happens that a parent abandons the child, but it is not the rule. In most cases, both parents will have to deal with each other AT LEAST until the child is 18 years old.

It does not make a childless marriage any less "real", it just means that it is EASIER to prove you didn't get married just for immigration benefits if you DO have them, with less additional evidence to prove it. Nobody said that it makes it faster to get an approval, only that when you do have children you need less of the rest of the evidence.

I can't help feeling offended here... if the purpose of marriage is to have children, does that mean that I should just pack up and go home because I can't have them?! Our marriage isn't any less valid than anyone else's because our children have four legs and fur...

I'm sorry, I'm not looking to offend anyone (except perhaps the snotty, snippy noob who picked out an observation of mine and started this). It's the traditional purpose of marriage. People who don't want to or can't have kids but who are committed to each other obviously can have a marriage that is equally "valid" in all respects to one in which the couple has or plans to have children. No question about that.

But having children, at least IMHO (which is all this was to begin with), demonstrates more than anything else that the marriage is not a sham. Plus children create ties that bind, even after a divorce. If I divorced my wife tomorrow, I would still have to deal with her for years to come, at least until the kids are grown and out of college. Other folks can just walk away from each other.

Also, IMHO, this topic has gone far enough, at least for me. The original point -- "kids are an ace in the hole" -- is that birth certificates attached to an I-751 petition are the most powerful evidence that the marriage was not entered into to evade the immigration laws. That's not meant to denigrate other evidence, and certainly not to denigrate childless marriages.

I think that you implied that if you have a child then your application should only take a few mins to approve... IMHO the fact that you have children sould not make any diffrence to when your application gets approved or not.... each case should be treated on its own merits .... having a child to the marriage is a strong piece of evidence but the child does not mean you should be approved ahead of a couple who do not have a child...

Kez

OMG ...not again !

Now you're porting over an obviously hyperbolic statement I made earlier on another thread.

I believe I made my point quite clearly and succinctly above.

Kindly give it a rest.

Thank you.

I think it had to do with the term used that offended a lot of people. To say kids are an "ace in the hole" implied to me that once you get married you should pop out a few to guarantee you won't get questioned on the relationship you have. IMHO, there are plenty of people out there who got married (visa or no visa), had some kids, then split. I don't see why having kids seems to make you think the relationship should be approved with less evidence than any other. I for one think, if you were in it just for the visa and a kid just happened to come along, it wouldn't change your idea that you're out once you get that GC. You'd be surprised at how little people value their children now days. Which, is why the term above offended me. I would love to have kids and have put so much effort into doing so. My children would be the greatest and most valuable thing in my life. But, I wasn't trying so hard to have them because I knew it would guarantee a GC for Javi. I was and still am trying because children are what I want more than anything in this world, including a GC.

No one intended to offend anyone ---we're all in the same bucket with the USCIS here... sharing the same frustration....
So I also think we should give this topic a rest...

I do agree with James. How many couples in a sham marriage are going to have a child together in order to put one over on the USCIS? Has it ever happened? I doubt it. I know of one sham marriage and the couple has not even consumated that relationship.

Well, I have to agree with James on this one although I find his condescending tone grating.

Pieces of evidence you submit are assigned weight, and a Birth Certificate showing that the child was born to the I-751 applicant, and the U.S. Citizen is probably as good as it gets in terms of "proof". However, it's still the preponderance of the evidence submitted and not a single item that results in approval.

Having said that, it's not all that much of a stretch to believe that some aliens, born into overbearing poverty, and anxious to escape it, wouldn't make a child for immigration purposes.

Let's face it, right here in this country, not too long ago, women on welfare were known to make babies to increase their social services income.

Women in border states, mostly illegals, assure that their babies are born in the U.S. and so they have been termed "anchor" babies in the belief that the children will insure that the parents have some future immigration standing.

This is not a term I approve of but it demonstrates that infants are used to provide "an ace in the hole" for immigration purposes sometimes.

Yes ,we'll give it a rest but....you made your point very clear that having kids proves automatically a genuine relationship
I hope those people at USCIS have a different judgement