Personally, I know there's an education loan provided by a large U.K bank that won't be getting paid back, but the £8,000 I owe my parents will be.

The other thing I'll be paying off is my CC; it seems to wise to keep it paid up, since if I have to return to the U.K for whatever reason, I have a fairly decent amount of credit waiting for me until the card expires.

Just a thought.

I really hope that you are not considering me in this category, since my reason to post in the first place was to answer the OP's question as objectively as possible, which I think I did.

Richi's comments about "living in the real world" irked me, because, well, I am dealing with reality -- I have substantial debt, and I have had to give up a lot of stuff (most of which did not make the list I made) in order to change that, because for various reasons which I also outlined, not repaying my debts is not an option.

I want you to know that I completely understand your point of view and reference, because trust me, I have been there (from reading your subsequent posts, that has been even more confirmed). If by quoting you in my previous post, that it seemed too personal and/or upset you, I offer my humblest apologies.

Predatory lending is definitely something people need to be educated about, as well as managing credit card spending, and good money management in general. It all goes hand in hand.

Richi -- sorry that my opinions may not match yours, but you don't hear me calling you full of ****.

Where is that smilie with the head up it's ###!

Cassie, first off, I apologise, if you think I was directing negative personal comments towards you.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I fully respect that. I got slightly irate as individuals turn a QUESTION from the OP, into their own personal crusade about how to deal with debt.
I've known single mothers/fathers in debt up to their eyeballs...and the debt caused by feeding their own young kids.
Sorry, I just am a little more sensitive than some and have a fair bit of compassion too.

The question was 'what would happen IF'....and the influx of replies were extremely judgemental and uncalled for.
My question is to those......'why do you feel the need to judge'?

EVEN when personal thoughts weren't requested. Not everybody agrees, but it seems that people want to pigeon hole individuals who are in debt. You owe money, you're the bad guy...and if you dont/cant/wont pay it back, then to hell with you.
Actually, there's a couple of posters who's attitude towards debt irritated me, that I actually genuinely like.

I had a serious question; can ignoring or defaulting on debt overseas affect your citizenship? could you be denied when the FBI do their checks?

If the original poster doesn’t mind I’d like to add my own personal comments..

I’ve read this entire post, I don’t think “morals” can be applied in the same sentence as Banks or Credit Cards… when it comes to lending and recovering money.. These Banks & Credit Card Company’s are ruthless at making and recovering money they don’t have nor apply morals to people they intend to collect on.

If you owe them money and cant repay it, they don’t use nor apply any morals to you as a person.. You’re not a person.. you’re a number on a collections agents screen with a balance outstanding, nothing more nothing less.. they don’t care if you have to pay bills.. rent, car insurance, they don’t care if you starve as long as you pay up...

If you don’t pay up.. they eventually sell off your debt to an agency that wont hesitate to threaten you with prosecution, garnishment of wedges or even think twice about sending in bailiffs (repo man in the US I think?), they are trained to bully and corner you into giving them your money and they wont hesitate to use the “morals” approach on you… they are only happy to paint you as the bad guy.. after all you got this money you spent this money that wasn’t yours… how dare you not repay it to them right now with all “fees” and “interest”…

They are full of $hite in my opinion.. you spent money they made on the backs of other people like you with their rip off interest rates and beat me over the head and take my wallet “late” fees… these Creditors use dirty tactics to get customers to accept credit.. Then when the customer cant repay.. the Creditor just sells off the debt to (a sometimes barley legal) recovery agency that would repossess your soul in a second if you would let them and of course if they could make money on it!

If you can leave the debt back home and don’t intend to use or need credit back there for the next 7 years.. then do it.. they can't follow you all the way over here ... it isn’t a question of morals when it comes to cut your throat and bleed you dry capitalist institutes such as banks and their evil partners in the debt recovery business.

It's ok, I didn't take it like you were speaking directly at me, so no worries on that account. However, some of the (what I felt were) valid points you made were over shadowed by the "do-gooders who are full of *** need to pull their heads out of their ***** and live in the real world" kind of comments. It is possible to disagree without going down that road, and that was the point I was trying to make.



Personally, I was very uncomfortable seeing people telling the OP "don't worry about it, it won't come back to haunt you" etc. etc. What if it does? What if we are wrong, and something does happen? The question that kept running through my mind was "why take the risk? why not make arrangements? It may not be easy, but wouldn't it be worth it even if it's just to give some peace of mind?" I base this on personal experience: a few years ago, I was dating a gentleman who lived in London, England who was originally from New Zealand. He had a considerable chunk of money owing on student loans back in NZ, and he thought he was in the clear and didn't have to pay it back because he was no longer living in the country -- wrong! He was tracked down, and he had to make arrangements to begin repayments ASAP before getting in serious trouble.

The other thing to keep in mind is this: I personally have no problems understanding if people have legitimate reasons for not being able to pay back their debt. Life happens! I get that. I am less understanding, however, if people are using immigrating as a way to get out paying what they owe, particularly if they do have the means to eventually pay it back. But that's just me.

Well said.

Well said.

Thanks..

The immediate above are the kind of fair comments that are good to read.
Good on you folks.

Haha! I like this thread!

Now morally the argument is between two parties: the lender, and the person they are lending to.

The lendee (so I shall call him/her) borrows money because:

1) They are hard up.

2) They need something and our entire lives nowadays are based around credit and how to get it - each and every store will accept a credit card, furniture stores will offer it, car places will offer repayments and our banks offer us loans etc.

Basically in a world where the motto is "you need it now, and you need this, this and this", you almost need credit to be "normal", whether or not you're living withing your means... When you take out a line of credit, whatever that may be, there are guidelines in place for the financial intitutions lending to YOU, as well as for you.

The financial institution is out to make money, plain and simple. Like McDonalds, they have an enormous amount of profit on their "goods", which in this case is money being lent. They will charge you $30 for being late, $20 for being overdrawn, interest monthly IF YOU'RE LUCKY - sometimes, it's a biweekly cycle and you're actually getting charged TWICE a month, instead of once, which effectively increases your interest rate amazingly, as follows:

Lucy has a credit card with $2000 dollars on it. She goes over her limit one month by $1, and gets charged $20. She's one day late paying, and gets charged $30 dollars. The credit card company have made $50 from her this month in charges alone. Then you have interest. Unfortunately Lucy, like many people, have chosen a credit card (like Dicover....they do this) with a biweekly cycle, meaning she is paying 10% interest once....bringing her balance up to approximately $2016 ...and then again...bringing that up to about $2033. So add that to the monthly charges she's incurred, and you have a grand total of about $83 that Dicover, say, have made from Lucy in a month. And she didn't spend a penny.

The vicious cycles some people find themselves in mean that if Lucy is again late in paying, she will get another late charge, an overlimit charge (because even if, half the time, she's paid what's owed, the interest is added twice more before she is billed again, meaning she's again over her limit), plus interest. If Lucy is the average person, she might find that...especially if they INCREASE her credit limit....she's out of pocket by perhaps $500 (at best) in interest and maybe at best, $150 in fees PER YEAR. If she keeps her Discover card for five years, she's paid them $3250 over that time. And that's without them even increasing her credit limit a lot. Oh - and during that time, paying only the minimum balance, she's paid off her card and THEN some...but what's this (?)...her balance is STILL around $2000. Hmmmm....interesting eh?

Morally speaking, none of these credit companies are giving you a good deal. They are drawing money out of you like a blood bank the entire time. So morally speaking if after fice years, Lucy finds herself in a position in which she's unable to pay any more, the credit card company have already gotten back ALL of the money, plus about $1500 MORE than what she spent in the first place. Don't even get me started on what could happen with a higher APR card at $10,000 credit limit...or for that matter what could happen if you borrowed the money from an unscrupulous lender like, for example, Capital One...

So who'se stiffing who? Certainly not Lucy...she's paid them back PLUS more of what they lent her to begin with. Interesting "moral" dilemma don't you think? And at the end of the day, if Lucy wants to, she can declare bankruptcy and not pay them anything anyway - after all, they've made $1500 on her over five years, and now they want more...

If you're financial status is because of hospital bills or unforseen circumstances and you cannot pay your debt off any more, does that make you a bad person? Nope. Does it mean that your financial institution is "out of pocket" and can defer higher interest charges onto other people? Nah. Do you only have one life to live - certainly, and if you've been a good person and paid your debts to the best of your ability, beating yourself up over this "moral dilemma" is going to cause you untold stress and worry, and maybe even destroy your mental happiness for years to come. If you feel bad, file bankruptcy - that's always an option. But you still won't be paying your creditors anymore....

See what I mean?

It's called if you don't like the terms... then don't sign the contract. There's nothing preventing someone from paying cash on things. Last time I checked, everyone accepted cash. The fact of the matter is that too many people are using other people's money through credit to live a lifestyle that they cannot afford and then crying when their creditors come to collect and declare bankruptcy to get it all wiped away. Have the creditors been too fast and loose on who they issue credit to... absolutely. But that does not excuse the borrower from their responsibility to meet their obligations.

Well said, zigz. If only people listened!

Certain creditors have been known to move the goal posts in the UK. After contact is signed, and is perfectly legal. Thats FACT...and fukcing outrageous.

It's a common misconception that people use credit to finance an "extravagant" lifestyle. Unfortunately, with housing cost inflation rising at considerably greater than wages (as just one example), people are increasingly using credit to find their day-to-day expenses. Yes, there are people out there who abuse the system, but they are many, many fewer than regular people.

There is something called "The Over-Consumption Myth", which is what is, in part, being referred to here. However, compared to a comparable family in the early 1970's:
* The average family of four spends 21% less on clothing
* Combining the cost of eating out and the cheaper grocery pruduce now available, they spend 22% less on food
* When the costs of microwave oven, dishwasher, tumble dryer, stove, refrigerator and washing machine are combined, our average family today spends 44% less on major appliances than they were a generation ago
* 0.8% more families own a vacation home
* We spend 23% more on "home entertainment" - CD's, DVD's, cable and cable - which amounts, in real terms to a $170 per year increase
(All numbers adjusted for inflation, data collected from US government spending habits analysis from the 70's to date.)

Today, we spend more on our pets, telephone services and airline travel than we did back then, but less on tobacco, dry cleaning (no, really) and carpets. In fact, when you tally up "frivolous spending", we do about as much of it as we did a generation ago.

So there's nothing there to explain that since that time we've seen a 255% increase in the foreclosure rate, a 430% increase in the bankrupcies registered and a 570% increase in credit card debt, as of 2003.

Where's that money going? Housing, in the majority of cases. Not the size, but the cost. The average middle-class family home grew from 5.7 rooms in 1975 to 6.1 rooms in the late 1990's - a 7% increase. The house price rose by 78% over that same period, whilst wages stagnated. And of course, when people buy housing at a higher cost, they need to rent it at a higher cost to offset their own mortgage.

So what can we say in conclusion? If a greater percentage of people's earnings is going to pay their fixed living costs (rent/mortgage, electricity, gas) then they have less disposable income. By the time you've added in paying debts - such as student loans, credit cards, bank loans - there comes a point where what you pay for your fixed expenses eats up a such a large part of your wages that you can no longer afford to eat, put gas in your car to get to work, pay your childcare provider (and yes, there are women for whom childcare is simply not a choice, because they can't afford not to work) etc. You live on your credit, paying back the bare minimum, and lo and behold, you're in the position that JayJay described above.

The US is not bankrupting itself on new clothes and washing machines, guys, and the practices of the lending agencies are truly dispicable. Of course, if you don't like the terms don't sign the agreement, but if it's that or eviction.... Desperation plays a large part, and I can only assume that if you can make a statement like that you have no understanding of the issues at play - and I hope you never do.

To deny that these problems exist is naive, but there are none so blind as those who will not see.

<sigh>

(Edit for some APPALLING typos!)

No and no.

Very true. But if you don't get a credit card, all of whom are designed to make money off you, then in turn, you cannot get anything else involving credit, including a mortgage. I personally have made arrangements to pay off all of my debt from here, but I'll tell you what - I cannot sit here and argue that anyone not paying their debt off is leaving their creditors in the muck, because they're not. Credit companies are designed explicitly to get money off you - there are no good deals out there - they're just pre-packaged to sound that way.

Unless I can afford to get a house with cash, I'll need a mortgage, and that'll mean firstly signing on with a credit card, and building up credit. I'd rather get a house via cash, but I bet that'll be impossible.

Is there a problem with UK creditors that individuals feel the creditors don't need all the money they are due back? Creditors provide a service however lacking they may be. Most of it is convenience, and yes, you can pay alot for it, but there are terms and signing your name links you to the repayment.

As far as take the loan or be evicted, um well that does not fly with me either. I don't know too many people who are in a position who would otherwise be evicted that would be approved for a loan that would save them from said eviction

I have a student loan just under 30k. I am disabled and it has been a difficult year for me with work. On top of that immigration, mortgage, regular bills pile up. I HAVE been in the situation so you are not preaching to the so called naiive, so no need for that in this thread. I do not deny that we are for the most part slaves to our economy, but there are many alternatives to living well above your means or conversly deal with a significant finnancial event (ie medical, etc.).

I think it was Richi who stated terms can change - well that is something on a completely different level and should certainly be fought (should it be valid), but that does not change the fact that again - when one signs on for the convenience of having credit, they get all the bad with it too.

But oh yes, the poor consumers.

Haha...true, of course we should all pay back our debts. But we do, you see.

They aren't so much providing a service, however, as providing a means to make as much money for themselves as possible. By the time you've finished paying everything you owe, they've made often more than triple what you actually spent. Plus consider, all of this time, they're been playing the stock market as well.

How about going bankrupt then - you're still not giving them any money! What would you rather do, to be honest - pay debts you cannot afford and in turn have no money for the rest of your life, to do ANYTHING at all? Or go bankrupt? Because the latter is exactly the same as not paying your debts - the only difference being that you're telling them first.

I've come from a family in which debts were large for many years, and this led to depression and basically a crappy atmosphere for bringing up children in. Had my family member gone bankrupt before he did, things would have been an awful lot better, psychologically, for his four children. And that would have meant I'd not have to have gone to as many hours of therapy as I did, too.

This world nowadays, is so clearly being run on "the more money, the better". Heck, if I got landed with $500,000 worth of medical bills, what would I do - attempt to pay that debt off and not have a life, for the rest of my life, or go bankrupt? I'd go bankrupt. I couldn't possibly pay all of that. Plus creditors.

To be perfectly honest, on the brader spectrum, I think there are far worse things, "morally", than not paying a debt back that you've already paid 3 times over. Be that during bankruptcy or by other means. I'd rather have people not paying their debts off than going around murdering people, or cheating on their wives or husbands - now those are moral issues. I simply won't be sucked into the propoganda of companies nowadays who are making tons of money, when the Earth around us is decaying and being polluted to the max.

And I'm still paying off my debts - but you know what? If they ever get too much, and I cannot pay them any longer, I WILL go bankrupt, rather than spend the rest of my life not living. Because I'll tell you what: I don't owe these creditors my human rights, and my soul, because I borrowed money off them. And to me, bankruptcy is exactly the same as not paying debts off, because basically, it is.

I have been in the position where I had to borrow money to avoid eviction, so don't tell me it doesn't happen. The point about sub-prime lending is that they will lend money to ANYONE, regardless of their circumstances. I know, because I've seen an exboyfriend sign a loan at 400% interest (he was a victim of ID theft and didn't know it at the time, hence no lenders would touch him) out of sheer desperation. Sub-prime is the most profitable sector of the lending industry!!

One of the biggest reasons for bankrupcy is being hit by a medical emergency. You know why? Because if you don't earn a lot, you can't afford health insurance and you're less likely to have it through your work. When you can't afford medical insurance, you pay for your own treatment. Do you go without lifesaving treatment, or do you take out a the first credit card you're offered, swipe, and pray not to have another in a hurry? It happens. In fact, job loss, medical problems and divorce accounted for 87% of all bankruptcies in 2001, according to the 2001 Consumer Bankruptcy Project. These people were those targetted by a predatory lending industry for sub-prime credit.

And leave the UK out of this. Maybe we in the UK just have a better developed sense of the wider implications of credit, rather than buying that whole "they're a big organisation so they must be right". Maybe we just have a sense of fairness, and don't like seeing people get stiffed by organisations which make up their own regulations.

Thanks for explaining this to the apparently credit naiive here.

I do not really understand the statement "Leave UK out of this" then the very next sentance backs up the superiority factor.

Ah well. To each his own.

I'm sorry, but if you think that this is not true then you're flying in the face of a lot of research and evidence and yes, you are naiive.

I'd like to point out that you were the one who implied that the British are all morally bereft lowlives who think it's somehow fun to screw the financial institutions.

As I said before, none so blind as they who will not see.

The fact that you inferred that from my original post is not something I can help. That was not my intention, I was making an observation that it seemed to me, at least more of the UK group on this topic seemed to suggest the consumers are the victims here. Nothing else.

I am fully aware that the subprime are the predators AND they make a hell of alot of money. Again - your making assumptions just because I disagree with what you are saying that I am naiive to think it does not go on. I kinda told you I have been in those situations.

Then you should have a greater appreciation of how quickly things can do wrong, and how having even a moderate and extremely managable amount of credit can blow up in your face, and to get back to the original point of the post, how it's not necessarily the case that "if you can afford to immigrate, you can afford to pay off the bills before you come" - the moralistic judgement which hit this thread without anybody even knowing the situation the OP was in.

And I don't know what I was supposed to infer from this:
apart from what I did.

All I was trying to convey (apparently not very well) was there was definately a divide with how some members felt with respect to paying back debt when not in the financial situation to do so. I was asking the question because maybe there is something built into the UK credit system that makes some members feel they are ripping people off. There - I said it i am naiive (to the UK credit system)

I got my answer I think - Richi stated - the goal lines are moved legally afterward. And also apparently its just not a fair situation and the people in the UK "better developed sense of the wider implications of credit"

Bottom line to me is, you have a loan, a loan - I am not talking about catastrophic events here... regardless if its a subprime... regardless if its an unfair practice, I don't see the point in not paying it off, but thats just my take on it.

That was totally unnecessary.



Wow this thread just keeps on getting "better and better". What's up with ppl getting so personal and twisting other ppl's words? That was just one example... Blah.

I was kinda thinking the same thing SanDan. I did not mean to imply "the British are all morally bereft lowlives who think it's somehow fun to screw the financial institutions" ... not my intent at all. I was posing a question curious about why UK members thought it was all about creditors' predatory actions. Really I don't care who pays back what. I sleep at night, and I am sure others do too.


Edits again for dispicable naiive spelling

NOW we're on the same page! Thank you for your clarification, lal_brandow. I'm pleased that you also appreciate that the subprime sector is, quite frankly, evil. You'd be surprised how many people don't.

I don't think anyone here is advocating not paying off a loan you are able to pay, I know I'm certainly not. But I do think that it's important to consider these things in the context of someone's life - is it better to hold off on a loan where the lendor has already been paid what the original loan was (sometimes twice over), or should you pay that debt regardless of whether you can eat that week? I've done it both ways; sometimes both at once! I've paid rent and not eaten, I've paid rent and creditors and not eaten, and I've had my utilities cut off more than once because I bought groceries. I've also had a collection agency try and knee-cap me at 6am on a Thursday morning. No matter which way you play it, it's hard.

The US credit industry is seriously depraved, and I find it hard to feel much sympathy for them when the lending arm of Sears will chase the family of a dead person, threatening them with legal action (which they actually can't legally take) over a $50 debt. That doesn't mean that I don't think people should have a sense of personal responsibility. There has to be some balance between personal and lender responsibility though, in my eyes.

Ditto

But true. You think that's unnecessary and unfair - that's the way I feel about people who can't understand why other people get into crippling debt. Hence my passion for this thread!

(Note, I didn't make the original comment about mail-order brides! )

I dont think its a case of not paying it off.... its a case of cant pay it off...

In the UK cerdit card companies are not interested in making deals with you if you are having trouble paying it off... they will only accept low payments and frozen interest if a court decides that is all you can afford... Most companies will sell your debt to another company who add their interest rate and charges and so the debt grows....

From talking to people here in the US (at work) they tell me if you contact the credit card company you can negotiatate a repayment plan... because if you tell them you cant pay anything there is little they can do to force you to pay... and after a period of time with no payments made the debt is abandoned....

cant see that happening in the UK... even the big banks send the bully boys to knock on your door everyother day for a few weeks and as long as it is before 9pm at night there is nothing you can do...

so yes UK people have no problem disliking credit companies..


Kezzie

Just another little angle on this.....

Credit card companies are making money hand over fist by what I consider to be double-dipping.

Example.....

You go to WalMart and whip out your credit card to make a $100 purchase.

The credit card company charges WalMart a 'merchant fee' for processing that transaction. Probably around 2 to 3%.

Then if you don't pay the $100 bill when it comes, they charge you interest.

I have no sympathy for credit card companies. British, American or otherwise.

This is the answer I was waiting for. If this is the case, then there seems to be an inherent difference in the UK credit system vs US. Make me think that the UK's system is actually more "depraved" as clmarsh stated than the US. Again no matter, but at least I think I understand where the mindset is of the few I was confused about.

Barclays, HBOS, HSBC, Lloyds TSB and RBS/NatWest, the 5 largest creditors in the U.K have made a combined profit of £35 billion for 2005, which is an all-time record!

I doubt they'd miss even 5 figure debts.

All the people talking of ethical treatment of banks really need to get a grip.

Yup. Creditors as a breed are completely unethical. They are, and I'll tell you what - I could not believe the amount of little, pointless charges they charge here in the USA vs Britain - and they add up!

My family member for example, was about 55,000 in debt because he was self employed, and had to raise four children. There came a time in which through no fault of his own, he couldn't pay, and over four months, saw his debt spiral out of control, finally hitting the 100,000 mark just a little while later...through INTEREST charges and late payments. 100,000...I kid you not!

So he, being a concientious person, decided to go for an IVA. Which he did. And ended up paying the IVA people 6000 pounds which they were saying they were giving to his creditors. Little did he know, they were not, and a few months later again, he ended up getting repeated calls from creditors asking for money...

He finally went bankrupt at about 110,000 pounds. Most of that was interest and finance charges. Financial institutions are rich. We were poor, and had to make do with what they gave us in order to be able to live. This is the state of our "giving" world today.

Remember the moneychangers from the New Testament?

I don't agree with this attitude. It's like swiping merchandise in a store thinking "They won't miss it; they have a lot of stuff." The fact that there's so much does not make swiping moral or ethical. It sounds like the poster advocates not paying back because banks are so "immoral." Student loans were also mentioned -- do they employ predatory lending practices as well? If you don't like the terms or using credit so that you can live beyond your means, then don't borrow.

Sorry......

That is rubbish.....creditors DO allow low payments without going to court....in fact HSBC offered to cut my overdraft by half as long as I paid the half in full...or I could continue paying 15 pound per month,interest free. Trouble is many ppl refuse or are afraid of talking to creditors when they are unable to pay. If this is the case one should go along to Citizen's Advice Bureau who have specialized debt counsellors who will call creditors on your behalf and negotiate managable terms of repayment.

The welshbun is right - most UK creditors would much rather accept SOME money than none at all - and the CAB deal with this situation ALl the time helping people to avoid bankruptcy. They have excellent debt counsellors who can also show people how to prioritise their debts, how to budget (all these should be taught in schools too IMO), and the fact that credit cards are often the quickest way to financial suicide for many people because they have aboslutely NO concept of frugality or living within their means.
I know MANY get into debt thru bad luck as well as bad planning (illness, divorce, unemployment - some things you just can't control I know that) but there IS life after debt and many also manage to dig their way out of it without ruining their credit records.
My mum brought me up to never borrow or lend,; well I'm not as strict about it as she was, I have credit cards and a mortgage (soon won't have as selling the house, lol) but debt always has scared the bejesus out of me and its ALWAYS cheaper to go into debt with a bank than a credit card company so I've luckily avoided any problems. My watchword was always 'if I cant afford it then i dont need it' when it comes to things like 'luxuries' too.
Ive been abroad, with virtually nothing in my pocket and gone hungry to avoid debt (often the choice was eat or have roof over head and Ive always gone for the roof) and worked some weird old jobs to keep the cash flowing too

So yeh, as I was saying; get a grip.
Moralising is fine when you're in the position to do just this, a lot of people aren't.

A lot of people don't use credit to live beyond thier means, just to live.

I kinda see what yr saying but thousands of people dont use ANY form of credit and they live just fine...

But people don't wan to see that, Isuckspam. We all borrowed money to finance extravagant cars, home appliances and a wardrobe full of designer clothes.

You can't reason with people who won't see that that is not the case - even with well-reasoned argument and statistics.

The Royal Bank of Scotland sent someone to try and kneecap me - despite the fact that we'd made an agreement as to what I would pay. And in fact, over 80% of what I owed was "bank charges" - lates fees, monthly overdraft fees, non-payment fees (even when I did pay!). They more than quadrupled my debt in less than six months. Barclays Bank called me every other day to try and get the amount that I was paying increased - even though they knew I couldn't pay it. Ironically, my credit card company were the most understanding and took what I could give them.

In all fairness, no the Student Loans Co. is not predatory. To me, it's just that the debts I have which are directly affecting my life right now (such as my rent, utilities, credit card debt from immigration) are my priority. Having lived with no electricity or water for a time because they'd been cut off (because I was trying to stop RBS sending men round with baseball bats), I know it's not something I want to live through in winter in Maine. If that makes me a bad person, so be it. The most important thing to me is keeping my husband and I warm, dry and fed right now.

And Jaylen; if they earn enough money to do that, great! A considerable amount of people simply don't.

Lol - you're all right, it's just here's the thing: We Are Not Undrstanding Each Other On This Matter!!!!!

Nobody here is suggetsing you take out a loan and then just...not pay it back *whistles* - I very much doubt anyone's actually done that.

You know what though, I love ya all, but until everyone here actually knows first hand what it's like trying to raise children when one is in debt, and how the interest and monthly charges hit you in the face, you just. Don't. Know. How bad it can get. Believe me sometimes, when you try to arrange a decent payment with the bank, as clmarsh has said, even that isn't enough.

People KILL themselves over being in debt, because they feel so bad.

Personally I have indeed arranged a payment plan with my creditors because as you say, they like to get something rather than nothing, and now that I have a job, I do have something. It's not hard to do - you just write them a letter explaining your situation, and how much you're willing to offer them per month, enclosing a breakdown of your monthly bills if you can. They will usually say yes, and then you can do your thing to pay your debt off, and everything is fine. But my debt is pretty little, really. And I had a nice bank, who I kept in contact with via phone the entire time and who didn't let stupid charges be applied to my account - lucky me!

But on the other hand, I just have no particular problem with people who don't pay. I do, if they don't, well hey - maybe it's about time lenders didn't just say "computer says you can have $4000" and then give them money...maybe it's about time lenders formed back up plans for people with life crises or sudden medical emergencies, or obsessive compulsive disorder, or a complex that makes them go shopping all the time.

After all - tell me this: how is anyone helping anyone by saying "you are bad - you're wrong, morally corrupt and evil to do this!"? How does that help any situation? It doesn't. At the very least, with every single individual situation, you're got to go more into depth and try to find out what exactly is causing the debt to increase.

By the way did anyone watch Good Morning America this morning? Had an interesting section on there about how nasty Debt Collection Agencies can get. Truly horrifying - thank goodness I've never had anything to do with CAMCO - that's an American Agency, too...

clmarsh - My mum and dad didnt earn a huge amount of money - my dad was a manual worker and his job paid pretty low wages. My mum stayed at home to look after me and my siblings.
They never went out socially (couldn't afford it), holidays were always days out in the car (which one year they had to sell to pay for the roof which was leaking - my dad used to ride a bike to work after that), or no holidays.
When I was kid we never went abroad, didnt have birthday parties (tho we had presents), school trips were out cos they were usually way too pricey and we got a lot of hand-me downs from cousins.
The only debt my parents ever worried about was the mortgage because that was a roof over our heads - anything else we just went without if it wasn't one of the basics.
And we werent classed as poor either - families I knew were poorer, and lived like sardines, and didnt have any luxuries (no tv, no cassette players etc) and new clothes were for birthdays and xmas.
there are a LOT of thing s I have now that I know damn well I could do without - but my generation is much more the 'I want' one than my parents' was.
I don't 'need' credit but I have it - I just don't abuse it.
I KNOW if circumstances change then debt is easy to accrue (without credit cards at ALL - just with borrowing from the bank) and for those people who are genuinely caught then they have my utmost sympathy and respect if they are trying their best to free themselves from it, but there are a LOT of people who can't seem to live without a social life, a dvd player, a holiday when they have debts they could use the money against.
If you have any doubts go along to the local council estate and check out the BMWs in the parking lot with all their owners claiming housing benefits

Its crazy, this thread has gone from the OP asking a simple question ' what would happen if.....' to people saying 'if you're in debt, you're not as good as the rest of us' (more or less), to people that have experience with debt, defending the situation.

If people hadnt lectured on the rights and wrongs in THEIR world, and the RIGHT way to live, then some may not have been offended by responses.

...and the RBS are one of the worst for moving goal posts at the moment. They are about as ethical as an individual going out spending a fortune on a credit card for luxury purposes, then going 'underground'.
FACT.

Yes!

I took out a contract on a phone, supposed to be £50 per month, in the end, despite not using any more minutes or texts than I was allotted, my bill was coming in at like £100 per month. I didn't pay my bill on time a few times, and recieved threatening letters from them, so I then told them I was cancelling the contract, and could pay them, but at the rate of £10 per week. 2 weeks later, I had a letter from a debt collection agency demanding £300, £200 of which was bulls**t invented charges from T-Mobile.
At that point it was pay, or have people knocking at my door. I payed, this then put me at my maximum overdraught limit at the bank, and so, the whole process began again...

It's all too easy to get in to debt, but really hard to get out.

There are, honestly, some debts I could pay before I leave, but I have no intention to. The man's been screwing me for a while, and now I have the oppurtunity to do the screwing...

bend over baby.

I significant portion of the high cost of borrowing is because so many people do not pay back those loans - hence the reason why if you have a good credit history you get a better rate of interest.

Quite honestly I don't understand the constant need for people to go into debt to buy things they really don't need (for instance, if you need furniture but don't have much money then get it from Craigslist or from teh second hand adverts, don't take out a loan at a furniture company).

Lots of people are taken in by the 'buy now pay nothing for 12 months' offers as well. They don't take the time to read the small print, and frankly that's their fault.

I understand people getting into financial difficulty and having to pay off their rent or medical bills, but I think the vast majority of people who get into loan trouble are not having problems with their mortgage or med bills, they are simply overspending on stuff that in reality they want but do not need.

No, they won't flag his passport and arrest him at the airport.

As for the rest of this thread....talk about spiralling out of control...SHEEEESH! A whole hell of a lot of judgements out there. Glad some people are perfect.

There is much money to be made in high risk credit, more so than the lower risk steady payers. Just look at the bonds market.

People seem to be focusing on how debt is accrued. It isn't always through ostentatious purchases and even if it is, circumstance changes.

Most people have a mortgage, good luck if you cant move to be with your loved ones because the market dropped and left you with negative equity and a debt you cant pay. Or pray that you don't get sick whilst waiting for your medical insurance to start. Or have to live off credit cards because you lost your job or cant get one in another country.

The OP wants to know facts about what can and can't happen as a direct result of defaulting on debt; they didn't ask for a bunch of moralistic do gooders telling them they shouldn't have bought that plasma tv.

I want a plasma TV.