Unfortunately, it hasn't worked out. What started as an optimistic future has become a marriage of convenience for her and her daughters immigration. The financial and emotional toll on my children and I has been nearly unbearable.

We are at the point that the adjustment of status has been applied for and her appointment for biometrics is in 2 weeks.

Thus far, I've issued stop payment on the checks and sent letters to the national and local offices withdrawing my endorsement of the affidavit of support. All of this unbeknownst to her.

Her visa expires, coincidentally, on the 4th of July 2008.

Can I still stop her adjustment of status?
If so, will the USCIS send a letter telling her to leave the country?

Thank you for any help.
Brian

Brian,

Sorry to hear about your situation.

You say you want to stop her adjustment of status; but your profile says "Naturalization". If it is Naturalization, there is nothing you can do.

As far as withdrawing the Affidavit of Support, I am not sure how that works, if at all. It is my understanding once you sign it, you're in. But i could be wrong, so let's hope someone else chips in with wise words.

Peace, L.

She can stay until here I-94 has expired, after that, she will be overstaying her visa.

Its technically her application, so you cannot withdraw it, but you can withdraw your affidavit of support. Which will mean the application will eventually be denied.

She can leave on her own at any time, but she will not be deported until the stay authorized by the I-94 has expired. Even then, the deportation process can take awhile.

You could always file an infopass appointment and inform them that she is not here for an honest marriage and she only came to get her immigration papers, if that is the case.

You could but it is not required. The OP has sent a letter withdrawing his affidavit of support and that should take care of stopping her status adjustment, for now as long as the case doesn't get transferred to California and approved without an interview. He doesn't need to give a reason.

Be aware that the expiration of a visa may or may not have any impact. The expiration of an I-94 is generally the important date. I take it this is a K1 or K3. K1 is single entry. K3 can have multiple entry for two years.

These situations can become more complicated if she still wishes to immigrate instead of returning to China. A popular strategy is to claim spousal abuse and on that basis adjust without sponsorship. The kicker for the petitioner is they have to deal with the abuse accusations. Be very careful how you handle a change of status away from cohabitation. If you've decided to divorce, get on with it very carefully.

As indicated, you may disavow your declaration of support prior to the issuance of a green card. Then, yes, when faced with the prospect of deportation, a defense is that the immigrant was subjected to an abusive relationship, giving rise to the ability on the part of the immigrant to self-apply. The extent to which such a claim will or might prevail will depend on the proof. If she goes to see an attorney, they will likely send her to a psychologist for a complete work-up, and naturally, the psychologist will be friendly to the immigrant's cause AND to the attorney. So, the report that is generated will paint a VERY strong picture of violence, threats, abuse, control issues...just like the claims that are made in many, many threads in this very forum.

It's a tough case to prove fraud once you've gone as far as you did, but it's not out of the question. It will be a difficult fight, because the immigrant does not want to have the stigma of fraud on her record, and when backed into a corner like that, the immigrant will fight back with a vengence.

Sorry about your situation. You are not the first to suffer this sort of experience, and will not be the last. Good luck. Withdrawing the affidavit of support is about all you can do at this point. Indeed, these circumstances extract a HUGE emotional and financial toll on many people, and it seems that, all too often, the path of destruction left behind in the wake of the process is something that the immigrant is not really conscious of or is something that the immigrant can contemplate or regard. On the other side of the coin, the immigrant is trying all he or she can to make it, and his or her needs come first, no matter the path in their wake.

If you are still living together, things will be very difficult. If you are not, then the issue becomes support, and that will depend on your jurisdiction, how long you have been married, and a variety of other factors, in connection with divorce proceedings.

For now, your objective is to protect yourself, your children, and your assets. Sometimes, it seems as if you never really knew the person you brought here, and so you might not realize just what the immigrant is capable of, how the immigrant is being coached, and who is doing the coaching. But I'd say get into a defensive mode as soon as possible. That you have withdrawn the affidavit of support is a good thing, and that will undermine the adjustment of status proceedings, and that, in turn, will lead to deportation proceedings.

Be careful!

Once you mail in the application, you are responsible for the fees. If you've placed a stop payment on the checks in about 1-3 months you'll get a letter in the mail from the Dept of Treasury that you owe the amount and you must pay it asap. It is as collectible as is IRS debt. Meaning if you dont repay the stopped checks, they can seek payment through your employer.

There was a VJ member on here that found it unbearable to live with her husband and did the same. She stopped payment on the checks several days after mailing the AOS packet and was forced to pay in the end.

You can't be serious! This is only one view of what *could* happen.

I'm actually quite impressed that his analysis has gone from "this is absolutely what's going to happen" to "it's probably going to happen." It's a baby step.

I do agree that in cases of divorce it's best to protect yourself. I don't think this is an immigration-only thing though. I wish I'd had the sense to protect myself more during my divorce, and we were both USC's. But taking sensible precautions doesn't automatically mean the immigrant is out to take you for everything and the police will soon be asking you where she got all those bruises. Unless you live in tito's world.

Welcome to the world, then!

Don't put anything past anyone. And yes, I am serious. Lawyers have psychologists ready to testify as to PTSS based on a relationship between the USC and the immigrant, and the testimony is used as either a defense to deportation, or as a basis for self-filing, when an immigrant wants permanent resident status and things have fallen apart in the relationship.

The OP asked a question, and what I've referenced is CERTAINLY a likely course of events or, at least a good possibility.

There are many threads about how the immigrant feels abused, threatened, subjected to a controlling spouse. On the flip side, many of the stories I have encountered deal with a USC who has no idea what the problem is, that they're trying everything imaginable to make things good for their immigrant spouse, there is nothing abusive about anything they do, or anythign objectionable about their actions, but nothing is ever good enough, and the immigrant claims abuse.

Broken record much tito? Once again, for someone without an agenda, your posts have a singular theme to them. Every. Single. Post.

Tito may not write what you care to like or agree with, but he/she has some serious dose of reality, and it would seem that if someone(Tito in this case) does not share your view, then they are therefore just not worth listening to in your opinion, thus you snip at and attack Tito, well maybe Tito is right or maybe wrong, either case at least Tito is giving the OP the worst case scenario of what could go wrong, so why not be prepared for it and cover oneself for the worst just in case, then if things work out in the merry little romantic way you always point out Every, Single, Time the OP is still going to be just fine.

Because not every case is going to be a run for the claim "i'm being abused" and suggesting so, almost leaves others to point in that direction.


Tito - how come you have so much knowledge on this topic? Were you in the training camp that teaches the way out 'claim abuse to get gc' or were you on the unfortunate receiving end. Because it is apparent, that each and every post, regardless of the situation you jump in with the same help and advise.

I believe in being prepared for and ready to defend against or prevent the worst case scenario when it comes to a possible divorce. Tito has aptly described the worst case scenario. It's real. We see it repeated often enough we'd be fools to pretend it didn't exist.

Does that mean only the worst case scenario or near faximile will occur? Of course not but I don't see anybody suggesting that.

I do suggest that detractors offer their own suggestions to the OP rather than objecting to legitimate posts by others. I've already done so, and my response mentioned the potential of an abuse claim too.

Dont be naive....the USCIS case files are full of exactly what Tito describes...I have read similar reports here on VJ....marriage fraud is the biggest visa fraud that USCIS faces..something like 8%, the stories of which you will never read here, as no one is going to lay out here what they are planning.

Some ppl petition for their K-1, that K-1 (from countries I wont mention here) come to the US, buy a ticket to a third destination to be with their families or relatives....the poor petitioner never had a clue.

My own suggestion to the OP was also to protect himself. That just makes sense. Be prepared for anything. Again, this isn't just advice pertinent to a USC/immigrant marriage, this is just good advice in general.

Tito is not offering advice. He's just taking advantage of the opportunity to once again advance his anti-immigrant agenda. Do a search on his posts. He says the same thing over and over and over. He twists topics to shoe-horn his "she will claim abuse just you watch and see" argument, often under the guise of his so-called "professional" experience in the matter, which is always nebulous and ill-defined. (at one time he claimed not to work with immigration cases, and now we see that his "office" sees these cases all the time) He does not contribute to the conversation, and he has no interest in helping the OP or anyone else. He is simply using VJ as a platform to advance his own anti-immigrant agenda.

Your response on the other hand was helpful and pertinent to the OP's situation. Furthermore, if I were to do a search on your posts I would see a variety of opinions on various topics that are often objective, and almost always helpful. You have built credibility through integrity and demonstrating through the years that you are not a johnny-come-lately with an agenda. So when I see a post from you that says "protect yourself," it holds very different weight and subtext than when tito says "protect yourself."

Taking your 8% figure at face-value, that leaves 92% of cases non-fraudulent.

Again, nobody is saying these cases don't exist. But scare-mongering is completely unhelpful.

Thank you. I'm suggesting we keep our posts on the topic instead of on the poster and let the readers take their own value from what they read.

agreed.


To the OP... I would think a good lawyer would be the best course of action in order to protect yourself. I am so sorry you're having to endure this.

I agree that the average person has no idea how many fraud situations there are. Most people think of fraud as two individuals, complicit in a scheme "pretending" marriage so that the alien can gain residency, and the USC gets a fad wad of money for doing so. But there is a whole other type of fraud, where one party in none the wiser and is blindsided by reality when the alien selects the time to make his or her agenda known.

Perhaps tito is trying to drill home that fact......

Maybe that's true, and that's why I think that the rules for bringing a foreign beneficiary into the country should be stricter ( FYI, I'm a foreign beneficiary/immigrant). Some of the stories about the transcontinental relationships are just scary.
Some people bring their fiances/spouses over to the US after having met only once or twice in person, and then they are stunned when the immigrants turn out to be completely different than what they had expected. What did they expect in the first place? How could they think that they knew the other one at all, after having met a handful of times, and what are they complaining about later, when reality hits them?
The same is applicable for the immigrant. Marrying somebody on the basis of having met once and having exchanged emails is pretty adventurous.
Having met once or twice is a tough basis for a marriage and soil which can breed a lot of disappointment and bitterness. That's why I think that the requirement of having met in person once within two years should maybe be a little stricter, maybe that would spare many couples a lot of heartache.

It is not easy to make a marriage work even for people who have spent quite a while with each other before they got married, and who knew each other's quirks and habits before. It must be even harder for folks who don't know each other at all.


But assuming that not all of the K1/K3 beneficiaries are GC-scammers, why do so many USC's scream "FRAUD" if things go wrong in the marriage? Why do most of them seem to be so eager to have the beneficiary's b&6%tt kicked out of the country ASAP?
I doubt that all of beneficiaries ( and please note that I am talking about those immigrants who came to the US for love and not for a Green Card - which is not even green, by the way ) will always necessarily pull the "hey...the USC has signed an Affidavit of Support! " card and will go pursue that route.

To the OP: you have every right to withdraw your Affidavit of Support and you should do so, no doubt. But if you don't
necessarily think that you have been a victim of a GC-scammer but rather that your marriage did not work out because of other reasons, why not let her stay in the US if that's what she wants and let her move on with her life?

Here's what I don't understand when it comes to these discussions whether the immigrant should leave the country after a divorce, or not: if it has been a bona fide relationship (I'm not talking about GC-crime) - why not live and let live???
Why necessarily destroy each other's lives? It's a more than valid point that once the immigrant leaves his/her home-country it's not easy to go back and start all over again from zero. Even more if kids are involved.

And from a human point of view: " So, the marriage to a foreigner doesn't work? No problem, send them back home!"
That sounds to me like shopping at Target: " Not happy with our product? No problem, you'll get your money back!"


In my opinion the problem begins with the fact that many people start the adventure called marriage without knowing each other, at all.

Best of luck to you, Habilus!

At this point I would seek consultation with both a divorce and immigration attorney.

"why do so many USC's scream "FRAUD" if things go wrong in the marriage?"

Great question...usually it's when the immigrant runs to authorities and claims ABUSE! As I've said here and elsewhere, either the immigrant wants things on their terms, and might have a particular agenda in mind, and if things don't work out, no matter their responsibility for the situation or relationship, they cry 'foul' because the USC didn't satisfy their expectations by delivering them on a silver platter...; or, the immigrant has a hard time adjusting to the pace, economics, and social aspect of life in the US (especially if they're from a place that is so different), and perceives the attempts on the part of the USC to help out the best they can as they have to deal with all the pressures of life with work, car payments, insurance payments, traffic, mortgage, and so on and so forth, as abuse, as being controlling, or something like that.

Truth of the matter is...the immigrant has a significant responsibility for the relationship, too, and if, in the eyes of the USC, they aren't pulling their weight, the USC comes to the conclusion that all the promises, all the emotion, all the sacrifice, all the work, was just a bunch of BS on the part of the immigrant so that the immigrant could come to the US. THAT is why the USC looks at the situation as "fraudulent". The situation is compounded when the immigrant runs to authorities and claims abuse as a way to get his or her green card regardless, and that leaves the USC even MORE confused as to the intentions of the immigrant in the first place.

"Tito is not offering advice. He's just taking advantage of the opportunity to once again advance his anti-immigrant agenda. Do a search on his posts. He says the same thing over and over and over. He twists topics to shoe-horn his "she will claim abuse just you watch and see" argument, often under the guise of his so-called "professional" experience in the matter, which is always nebulous and ill-defined. (at one time he claimed not to work with immigration cases, and now we see that his "office" sees these cases all the time) He does not contribute to the conversation, and he has no interest in helping the OP or anyone else. He is simply using VJ as a platform to advance his own anti-immigrant agenda."

This is absurd. You are melding a bunch of different things together to create your OWN agenda. And I repeat the question: is it that you get your jollies seeing others suffer in failed relationshps? Or are you just anticipating what best to do in the event your relationship doesn't work out? Not clear about your agenda.

My advice is sound. Quit putting words and ideas and sentiments into my mouth because of your own agenda. To clarify: I am not an immigration attorney, but the immigration issues are prevalent in my office. I am participating here because all this warm-fuzzy "advice" about the poor defenseless immigrant running from a vicious monster that is the USC fails to take into consideration other options; also, there are stories here that repeat from people that come from the same certain places, and the places and fact patterns are remarkably similar. In such circumstances, the USC needs to understand the situation and the reasonably probable consequences of the actions of the immigrant who is often willing to do and say anything to stay in the US. If things are so bad, indeed, going home should be the first option, not levying some undefined claim of abuse against the USC.

Sorry - but that's just the reality, no matter your particular fantasy - and that certainly manifests repeatedly. Thanks for following me around and paying so much attention to what I'm saying - I AM truly flattered - but enough already.

"Tito - how come you have so much knowledge on this topic?"

I see it every...single...day...in the course of my practice. Do you have a different experience? This isn't 'scare mongering'. It's reality for those who come here wanting to know the situation. In cases of failed relationships where immigration is an issue, this is important information for a USC. And when the failed relationships stem from immigrants from certain countries or parts of the world, the likelihood of a particular course of action is tried and true. But...not every relationship from a particular part of the world is destined for failure...on the other hand, IF the relationship fails soon out of the gate, AND the immigrant is from this or that place, THEN the likelihood is that such claims will be made in order to secure the green card. The immigrants are well coached in advance, and know exactly what to do.

I have knowledge and experience, but hopefully the information that is delivered, is done so in such a way that people might be willing to accept it

My "agenda" is to participate in discussions, and to do what little I can to help people who share the international relationship connection with me. One of the things I think I can help with is to point out a shyster when I see one.


Nobody's putting words in your mouth. As I've said, one only needs to do a search on your posts to see the pattern. Single-minded hijacking of threads to advance your anti-immigrant rantings. The "New Life" thread is a perfect example. The OP wanted to know how people were coping with their new life, never mentioned abuse, and in fact nobody else mentioned abuse until you brought it up. You had to really shoe-horn it into that thread.

Again, you post only in this forum, and you post only your tirade about immigrants who take advantage of USC's. If that's not an agenda then someone please call the guy in charge of the English language and tell him it's broken.


Maybe you could be a little more specific if anyone were to take you seriously. The other attornies and legal secretaries who post on these forums have never had a problem discussing exactly what their jobs are and what kinds of cases they work on. You, however, seem to think you're Batman, lurking in the shadows, promising us that you have all this "professional experience." My intarweb-radar identifies you as a possible intern punk who's trying to leech onto some professional cred before he's ready, but then I suppose it's possible to be a full-fledged attorney and be maliciously incompetent too. Either way, very few here are impressed.


I agree, enough already. Stop your blathering and become a true participant in these forums instead of spewing crap all over them. You're not helping anybody except your small following of mouth-breathing minions.

Whether the truth is something palatable or not is something people simply need to get over. There are certain things in these discussions that can't be sugarcoated. Some people have some significantly thin skin and take comments personally for whatever reason when they are not directed at them and do not deal with their particular experience. But taken in the manner intended, you will note that there is nothing misleading. People do what they do, say what they say, and the circumstances are something I see regularly, like it or not. If people want to live a different reality, that's fine. I'm sharing my experience and background because they do offer a perspective that DOESN'T sugarcoat things.

I'm not here to render legal advice to complete strangers, and I am extremely careful not to do so. Instead, I participate in order to share the experience of my practice, so I absolutely will not get into any specifics beyond that. This is an internet forum where people come to share experiences or seek opinions and perspective from others. The bases for my perspective are both personal and professional experience, and there's nothing more I can, will, want, or need to state. I'm not going to go around in circles and play that game as I mentioned when you first popped off. If you look at the comments I make, they are consistent, they are based on experience and practice, and are, for better or worse, accurate. This spin-doctoring of yours reflects that you are not interested in the MESSAGE, but rather the person posting. Again, I'm flattered, but stick to the message...

Whenever someone gets a little too close to the truth, misdirection is an important tool in the shyster's arsenal. Nobody ever said sugarcoat, nobody *has* sugarcoated, and nobody has insisted it (whatever "it" is) be sugarcoated. But hey, don't let that stop you from trying.


Ah yes, intern punk trying to go for the "mysterious cred" as I thought. Not that you brought any credibility to the table in the first place. I believe it was a legal secretary who managed to throw you to the mat in the space of about 5 posts, and another very credible attorney who has no problem telling the rest of the community exactly what it is they do to seal the deal. You are not Batman, you are just some guy who is almost certainly not an attorney pretending to be one.


LOL you better believe I'm interested in the message. Because your MESSAGE is one that's just this side of skinhead neo-gtfo-of-my-country-ism. And let me tell you something about *my* personal experience. I had a very close relative who found himself up to his neck in people who liked to spout how immigrants need to just go home. I did a lot of research and worked actively against those monsters. Some of them had eerily similar arguments to yours. I'm not ready to proclaim your agenda as quite that insidious yet, because quite frankly I haven't made up my mind if you're just willfully clueless or maliciously clueless. But don't make the mistake that I'm posting against the person, although I'm sure you're just as repugnant in real life as your words make you sound. You've definitely got a message and you certainly have my attention, as well as others.

tito,

For the most part I have read what you've written with an open mind. Your comments above are all well and good, and I don't for one moment question the fact that you have both professional experience and personal experience that forms the basis for what you have declared.

That being said, you do appear to do a disservice to your cause by being so quick to consider others' as being unqualified to comment and to suggest that a vast number of aliens will follow the steps you have clearly defined. Well, let me say that in another way. I sense that you believe your experience gives you the best insight into the minds of a would-be con-artist and you are suggesting that this is a widespread issue. Frankly, I take exception to that. There's is no doubt in my mind that you may have been played by an immigrant. However, to paint all immigrants with the same brush, claiming that "this is what he or she will do" sends a very inaccurate message of the real dynamics involved when an alien uses a marriage to a USC for his or her immigration benefit.

The fact is that aliens that defraud US citizens into marriage typically don't do it by way of claiming abuse before they have adjusted status. For one thing, the bar is raised in such circumstances, and the "gold at the end of the rainbow" a fleeting and distant prize. Many abuse claims never get past the prima facie determination.

No, the alien that is "in it" for immigration benefit is a calculated individual. He has his route planned from the outset, and only under rare circumstances would he play his hand before he has accomplished his quest. To mix that individual in with a whole bevvy of others that are neither well-schooled in the art of conning another person, nor driven by a prime motivation to gain residency in America is unjust to those of us that know better.

At this point...it's all a big 'whatever'. Nobody here knows much about the details of my personal experience, and significantly less about the breadth of my professional exposure...yet some of you make all sorts of assumptions and catapult to different conclusions. So...whatever. My personal experience is not in the least bit relevant to my professional judgment and observations that I'm willing to share here.

Back to the hard cold facts that are gleaned from my experience (yeah...a secretary throws this file clerk a bone once in a while...!)...a USC might be trying everything possible to help an immigrant spouse acclimate, and in the end, nothing is good enough. Lots of times, if things don't work out, the immigrant wants the green card and does and says anything to get it instead of contemplating a return home. The immigrant can (AND OFTEN DOES) interpret the efforts on the part of the USC as being controlling or manipulative or abusive, and uses that as a stepping stone to his or her objective.

If the parties are truly in it for a relationship, it takes commitment on the part of both to make it work. If it's all just a sham, then the USC needs to protect himself or herself. Anything and everything could be used as justification for something else.

You make a successful abuse claim sound so easy, when in fact it isn't. There can't be success if the instance did not exist.

Hi Tito,

Most of your posting are good but how about when children is involved? just leaved behind or take the kid?

Well, one can only surmise that you were taken advantage of personally, and your professional experience, while not an immigration lawyer, must be closely enough associated with aliens seeking immigration benefits in some way.

Nonetheless, there are others that have personal experience, that do not tend to lump all aliens in one class, and still are able to offer insight to USCs to be prepared for one of these scenarios you describe so well. The distinction is to be able to identify when such advice is wise, and when it is not germane. There are aliens that have a legitimate right to remain in the USA. At the same time, I think we all understand that there are always some that do not have such a right.

You know, tito, I guess different people read things differently.

I look at this post and I see the bolded part. I could be wrong but to me, it sounds like the OP and foreign born spouse are still sharing the same household. Now I'm no idiot and I realize a claim of spousal abuse can still be made even though the intending immigrant never flees the abusive household. But I'd say that raises the bar of proof (which mermaid spoke of earlier) to a higher level still.

I also observe the expiration date of the visa. Looks like a K3 to me - it sure doesn't fit the pattern of a K1. If I'm right, the couple has been married around 18 months. Not the picture you paint of the immigrant looking to yell 'abuse' the moment things go sour. From the few sentences we've been given, I see a marriage that's been going south for a while.

Possible frauding of the USC by the immigrant? Maybe.

But once again I see the USC ready to pull the affidavit and send the immigrant packing. If there's been real, unmitigated, planned fraud on the part of the immigrant, I have no problem with that attitude. But a human being isn't like a toaster over we can return to Wal-Mart if it starts going on the fritz. For that reason, these posts always bug me.

We sure as hell can't tell what's going on with this couple from the few sentences Brian gave us. But most of the time, I'd be willing to bet my right arm that these sad failed marriages just plain old break down. No fraud, no abuse. They just break down. The partners in the marriage lash out at each other with different tools than what we see in a customary domestic marriage, but the shattered result is unfortunately, the same.

OF COURSE there are a myriad of variables involved. The instances I see here, however, and in practice, seem to have a familiar fact pattern...the country, the apparent acumen of the immigrant, the duration of the relationship, age, maturity, cultural awareness, circumstances regarding the genesis of the relationship, the clues about how the relationship began what seems like its sudden demise, the duration of the relationship, the time spent in the US...I'm not lumping every immigrant situation into one bucket. To the contrary. I AM, however, generalizing based on those familiar fact patterns, the same countries involved, the similar apparent sophistication of the immigrant and, among other things, the fact that the claims being made generally DO sound the same...hints of claims about abuse, control, manipulation...it's all right here. My point is that I don't think it's right to take things at face value without considering (i) what the other side of the story might be, and (ii) whether, under the circumstances, it would be best for the immigrant to return home. There's quite a bit of warm and fuzzy best wishes and all, with people wanting to do good, dispensing advice about protecting onesself, going to shelters, reporting to the police, and things like that, but things don't really add up in many of these instances where the poster is searching for sympathy for her cause.

Would it matter if a child is involved? Was the child that of the USC as well? What was the relationship between the USC and the child? Sure those are variables. But if life is so terrible for an immigrant, rather than try to bootstrap something to make sure that the immigrant gets his or her green card, why ISN'T going home an option? That's my question...

Regarding the viability of an abuse claim that would entitle the immigrant to self apply? They absolutely CAN be a piece of cake! As I mentioned in other posts, there are attorneys out there who send their prospective immigrant clients to a psychologist who does a work-up that concludes that the immigrant was absolutely traumatized! There is no testimony from the USC who is accused of the abuse. In the interim, during the time this case is being prosecuted, the immigrant lives here often times on the dime of the USC, or taxpayers.

So...there are variables, indeed; there are other options for the immigrant who ought to consider going home as one of them; an abuse case can be and they often are a stepping stone for an immigrant whose motives might not have been as savory as initially imagined by the USC.

There is a basis for the stuff I'm saying, and if it's being repeated, it is due to the fact that the same warm-fuzzy sympathy is constantly smothering a different reality, and it is important to contemplate another point of view and perspective.

"We sure as hell can't tell what's going on with this couple from the few sentences Brian gave us. But most of the time, I'd be willing to bet my right arm that these sad failed marriages just plain old break down. No fraud, no abuse. They just break down. The partners in the marriage lash out at each other with different tools than what we see in a customary domestic marriage, but the shattered result is unfortunately, the same. "

Absolutely. Well stated and well reasoned. There are variables, and what I've tried to do is expand the perspective of the options available. There are recurring themes, recurring fact patterns, the same countries involved, the same sort of accusations, that give a very familiar tone to some of these threads. These are the threads where things went sour, many times in a hurry. Could it be that the immigrant just doesn't understand some of the facets of life in the US? SURE! Is that "abuse"? NO! But sometimes these 'abuse' cases do stem from a lack of understanding on the part of the immigrant, who has or had expectations that were not satisfied, and their frustration manifests in different ways.

This is not all that difficult, and I've said the same thing in a different way now quite a few times. I hope that people can see that and understand.

Once the cohabitation ceases and/or one party declares their intention to end the marriage, the intending immigrant is forced to make some decisions about their life. If they decide staying in the USA is a high priority and they have no appropriate sponsor, they often seek advice from people who are aware that claiming abuse is about the only way they can successfully stay in the USA. Depending on their personal integrity, they may decide to pursue this avenue. All USC's that are in circumstances that may expose them to this risk, are well served to be aware and take defensive action as appropriate to their circumstances. The appropriate action could range from nothing to a a whole lot. That's for the individual to judge. Informed decisions and all....

Oh and you are helping Mox? Like you are the moral authority on this, Mox, you spew and blather as much if not more than Tito. Please both of you take a time-out! And agree to disagree and show some tact. Both of you have your points which so what if they conflict it is no reason to act this way.

Things work out so much better when we all just confine our responses to the topic and avoid making them about the poster. It's so simple.

Thank you all so much for your kind reflections and advice. We just returned from a long road trip to SanFrancisco to renew her expiring passport. I am pretty sure she will need that to get home. We got back late and I had to work today. Because her passport was surrendered for renewal, we'll have to re-schedule her biometrics appointment.

As for the spousal abuse. She is the one with the police record. Last year, in one of her outbursts, she back fisted me. I dialed 911 instantly. The police responded and verified the bruise on my face. In my up-bringing hitting a woman is a despicible act of cowardice.

I don't think she intended fraud, but rather, enduring an unhappy marriage seemed better than her life before. Her impression of America came from tv and movies. She simply can't believe westerners really work this hard. I have a full time job in high-tech and a small business. That business had suffered huge losses until recently. (no help from her, she's the laziest person I've ever met)

My goal: As soon as she realizes her immigration has been denied, try to convince her that the application was denied due to my inability to support a family. She's somewhat aware that my net worth is nearly zero because of the business. If she can just go home for a little while, I can re-apply when I have more money.

I'm not at all proud of doing this, I only wish her the best, but I have a duty to my children and myself to un-do this terrible mistake.

Thank you for all your kind thoughts and advice. It's nice to know that some people will still take time to help others.

You make it sound like you would be trying to convince her of a lie. That might be enough to qualify as manipulation, control or even abuse. Why not simply tell her the truth, which if I understand correctly is that your marriage didn't work and you're getting a divorce. As such, you will not be sponsoring her status as permanent resident but would be happy to pay her way home and otherwise treat her honorably.

and it's been answered MANY times, by MANY people, and yet here you are still asking it... I'm guessing it's rhetorical, as you obviously have no real interest in any form of answer




strange that you expect that from others, and yet again, it somehow does not apply to you...

Not that it matters, but you can not renew by post?

I do not remember needing a passport for Biometrics.

There is only so much you can do from an Immigration perspective, what you need is a Divorce lawyer.

I believe you are mistaken.

Absolutely! Judges, adjudicators and regular humans are thoroughly convinced of falsehoods all the time.

Convincing is the requirement not actuality.

If an alien wishes to remain in the USA once a marriage is no longer viable, yet the alien has not successfully adjusted status, he or she must pursue a VAWA claim. That claim is not simply approved based upon an alien's allegation of abuse by his or her US citizen spouse. It has to be documented, and supported by evidence. I am not saying that there aren't occassions when some of that evidence submitted by *some* aliens to corroborate a claim of abuse can't be suspect, and contrived, as I am sure that it can, but to suggest that an alien can be successful, just by concocting a case based solely upon a bunch of evidence that is clearly created ex facto , I do not accept!

Good. Neither do I. Fortunately nobody suggested anything of the kind.

I think you were here, no?

Or at least the term "falsehoods" suggests to me that the claimant is not conforming to the truth, and therefore lying about and concocting a case of abuse.

And in the case of anybody deciding to allow the self adjustment "convinced" with "evidence". False evidence, of course but the point is still that no incident of abuse need occur. The immigrant only needs to convince the proper authority an incident occured, even if it didn't . We don't have a disagreement here. Your simply misinterpreting (adding to) what I wrote.

My advice to this OP was to be prepared for an accusation of abuse. One would be much in error to infer there was actual abuse. Nobody even implied it and certainly nobody suggested a high success rate for such attempts.

Again we're discussing the difference between maybe and maybe not. The two coexist quite nicely. Actually one cannot possibly exist without the other.