"what are you doing here in this community? is it your mission to spread your opinion about K1 visas and the foreign spouses into the world?
well, because if this is the reason you are here, i don't think it does any good for you. you only become more bitter to see other people happy (90%) and then those whose marriages and relationships fail (10%). these 10% are fuel in your fire.
it is never good to be bitter about love."

Might I ask what so many doe-eyed, brightly optimistic persons not unlike yourself are doing here! That was my question to one other poster who keeps pointing to this illusory agenda. I have professional experience that I am sharing in instances where that experience bears a direct relationship to the circumstances. I dare say that many, many others not unlike yourself are lost in the 'warm-fuzzies' of wishes and hopes, buying into all of these repeated claims of abuse, threats, controlling spouses, and on and on the threads go, without contemplating another VERY important aspect...the other side of the story!

There's no bitterness...there is the reality I see in my practice on a daily basis that bears a very striking relationship to the stories in these threads. If everything is so perfect...why would anyone in their right mind be cruising these threads that are replete with examples of failed relationships, divorce, claims of violence and abuse, threatened spouses, and the like? That is the better question.

If 90% of the relationships are happy ones, THAT'S GREAT!!! But...really...of the many threads in this particular forum, there aren't many success stories! Or perhaps that fact might have escaped you. My observations deal with the 10% that fail, which seem to compromise 99% of the threads in this particular forum! There's no fire, there are observations I am sharing. It's never good to look into Pandora's Box, either, especially when there's nothing in it for you.

Back on topic indeed! There are a number of posts on this thread that are nothing more than distortions and legitimate ideas put forth that some posters take out of context and use to levy a personal attack, and now those who pushed the non-issues to the furthest extremes of what is salient to the issue at hand want to pull in their reins. That's great! Perhaps your road show ought to be brought elsewhere...

So, are you here on VJ to share your professional opinion as lawyer? Just curious.




That because the nature of THIS particular forum is to help out people who have had failed relationships and give them help and support. You aren't going to find any happy stories here, I thought you realised that.

Oh tito, self flagulation will get you nowhere with this crowd. But I for one appreciate the effort.

ya know before i even say this i know im gonna get told off ...................

this thread was about how to be prepared for your new life.....can you ever be prepared enough........

not a court room to try anything in..................

not a thread for lost love or being cheated...........

some of u are starting to sound like spoiled two year olds that have not had a nap.......

if you feel the need to fight as a spoiled children plz oh plz take it someplace else..... people click on this topic so that
they see if there is anything that they have not done or any information that is new that they might do to prepare for their journey ........ not to see adults becoming children

Fine. Tell jeraly to stop touching me.

oh man im never gonna make a good parent i cant keep a straight face after that one

"So, are you here on VJ to share your professional opinion as lawyer? Just curious."

No. I'm not rendering legal advice. I am sharing experiences I have encountered in my profession. Amidst all the warm and fuzzy sympathy is a different perspective that I have tried to bring to the forefront despite the officious intermeddling on the part of others who, for one reason or another, take things personally and see fit to make repeated personal attacks. Some of the optimism here is curious because it takes things for face value without taking into consideration the reality of these situations. Unfortunately, yes, these are horror stories that keep repeating. My point is that, if the immigrant thinks things are so bad, going home is an option. In the alternative, perhaps the perspective of the immigrant is narrow and ignorant of the perspective of the USC under the circumstances.

It takes a commitment on the part of 2 in a relationship. If one simply expects everything to be loaded on to a silver platter, that person will be disappointed, feel frustrated, feel as though their other half is manipulative and controlling, or that they are being abused, but then, under those circumstances, who is the abuser? Yet that theme repeats, with the same sympathy being thrown at the immigrant without any deference to the point of view of the USC...

The threads on this forum do not correlate with your assertion. There are many, many examples of "abusive" (or however you want to label the behavior) conduct on this forum. Some are from the immigrant's point of view, some from the USC's. If there is "sympathy being thrown at the immigrant," it is because the OP of that particular thread is the immigrant. When USC's post their sad stories, you will see sympathies thrown their way too. The lopsided behavior that you keep insisting you see simply is not here.

I can't speak for yours or anyone else's relationship but with respect to the OP and this topic, I think that part of building a successful relationship and adjusting isn't just the immigrant "going home". Of course it is an option, but most would prefer to try and work things out before spending a lot of time and money and emotional turmoil uprooting their lives.

Of course, you may view this differently, which I am sure you do and am sure we will all hear about it. Please do share, I am sure it will be a valuable insight to everyone in this thread about the adjustments you and your immigrant spouse made to ensure a successful transition from one country to another.

Curious.

The same could be said regarding your advice always focusing on the negative. Sometimes, an orange IS just an orange.

I personally like to be optimistic and realistic at the same time - it *is* possible. First you look at your cr@ppy situation. Then you look at every worst possible scenario and address each one so you have a plan for each. Then you get on with your life looking at the best possible outcome (or how you can make the best of a bad situation) with a positive outlook so you don't a) drag down everyone around you sink into a deep suicidal depression and c) bore everyone to death with how terrible everything is

You have no idea about MY particular life...so once again, don't make this personal, and don't make any assumptions. I've done absolutely nothing to make any derogatory comment about you, and I have not made this personal despite the repeated attacks by a handful of posters.

The harsh reality is, once again, that these threads are FULL of examples of really bad situations...perhaps for the immigrant; perhaps for the USC; perhaps for both. Without knowing the other side of the story, it's not really fair to jump on a sympathetic bandwagon especially when the likelihood is in many of these cases, which are representative of what happens in a practice that has as its emphasis immigration issues, is that the other side of the story is equally as compelling and in many cases the immigrant crying 'foul' is hardly a victim at all. I feel that it's important to bring that possibility to the attention of those who buy into the victim claim hook, line and sinker. Plain and simple. You don't agree with the assessment, that's fine! You don't like how I say it, that's fine too! But this incessant personal attack? Well, it doesn't bother me in the least. Everyone is free to stumble around in the dark tilting at windmills. There is sound reason that is being overlooked in the process.

Sometimes an orange may, indeed, be an orange. But when the orange being complained of in the majority of cases turns out to be a loaf of bread, one ought take away the wrapper before rendering a judgment. It just so happes that this forum IS in the bakery, no matter how orange it may seem. My focus is not on the negative, per se, it has more to do with an alternative perspective that is being overlooked repeatedly. This forum deals with a lot of negative things happening, and life isn't all warm and fuzzy under the circumstances.

Apologies if you felt my post was personal, I was using the word "you" as a second person grammatical perspective rather than directing it at anyone in particular. If it makes you (intended to refer to tito) feel better then please feel free to substitute the boldened text in my previous post with the word "one".

I was actually referring to some not-so-great situations that I personally have been in but if you (again intended to refer to tito) would like to make this personal then feel free - I was merely making a general statement about how I have handled less-than-desirable situations.

Once more the reason that this is so is because this is the Effects of Major Family Changes on Immigration Benefits section of VJ. ALL the threads here are going to be sad stories about broken relationships. To put in in perspective though the remainder of VJ tends to be a happy place (relationship wise) once the beneficiary is over in the USA. There is probably ONE sad thread for every 30/40 (or more) happy threads.



Oh you have a valid point. Of course perhaps the same could be thrown back at you and we could say that perhaps you shouldn't be so eager to jump on the "she's only doing it for a GC!" or "you've been lied to and tricked!' bandwagon.



Once more, it IS important to bring into play certain potential aspects. But to focus on THOSE aspects and ONLY those aspects is also misleading. You clearly only focus on the negative sides of it all rather than weighing up both sides of the coin.

The other thing to remember is that you have clearly stated that you give information on what you have heard and seen at your legal practice. Many of the posters dedicated to this section of the forum have actually experienced it THEMSELVES, first hand, rather than second, third or fourth hand.

Something to think about.



I've never had an orange turn into a loaf of bread. You need to shop in better places.

Tito, you keep refusing to address any questions about your situation or your professional experience. Which is fine, it is of course your prerogative. However, stop with the "in my professional experience" crap. If you refuse to discuss where your experience comes from, then you don't get to legitimize your arguments based on your experience. Nothing you have said yet indicates any experience past what the typical clerk or VJ member would know. So either put up or shut up.


And yet you continue to only address the one side of the case. You say there are two sides, but inevitably (in tito world) the one side of the case is the immigrant screaming abuse. That's not 2 sides, tito. That's the same side of a very ugly and inaccurate opinion.


For someone who isn't bothered by personal attacks, you sure bring them up often enough, and even manage to lob a few out to the "windmill tilters." (By the way, you might actually want to read Don Quixote, where your quote comes from. You might get a better idea of what tilting at windmills actually means...and then you'll laugh!


You know tito, a bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver.


Well...sorry but your view *is* a negative view. And you know what? That would be fine if you had whatchacall an objective viewpoint. If you were bashing the USC as often (or hell, even at all) as you bash the immigrant, at least you'd be honestly negative. But time and time again you paint them with the broadest, nastiest brush you can find. That's why I keep saying you have an agenda. You keep saying there are 2 sides, but you say it like when one political party acknowledges that voters really have a choice, and say something like "you can vote for America or you can vote for the terrorists." You would have us believe that the 2 sides of the coin are the pure and holy USC, and the evil and money-grubbing immigrant. You present a false argument, and that's why--except for the occasional minion who shows up in your defense (and they're hillarious with their lack of puncuation and their bold-facing, don't get me wrong)--everyone here is always jumping in the middle of your crap.

Tito, I think everyone here realises that not all stories are as they seem and that not every relationship ends up the way we hope and expect it to.

As for personal attacks, in a number of your posts you have accused those frequenting this particular forum of having an ulterior motive for doing so. That is presumptuous and unfair of you. Besides which, this thread was only ever about avoiding possible pitfalls.

Perhaps people post 'I'm so sorry you are going through this!' because they are compelled by conscience to do so. Short of having anything really constructive to say it is the best that person could do at that time and it makes THEM feel better. Maybe they shouldn't post at all. However, I think it is equally unhelpful to post a one-sided opinion or knee-jerk reaction to an OP's statement or question. Whilst it may be true that the immigrant could go home this is one of a number of options available. In the circumstances generally described in these threads it is best to remove your emotions from your response and use your head. That is what is most helpful to the OP.

It's no good complaining about people making personal attacks towards you when you have done precisely the same to them. I am of the opinion that you see and read what you want to see or read. A lot of really constructive responses to your posts you have completely overlooked. You choose to see the ones which you personally find derisive. Your choice.

eta: address to tito since I didn't expect half of VJ to post a response faster than me!

Boo - go away evil USC!!! RIGHT ON!!1!



I must agree here (maybe because we are both RANUSCs from the UK - we have to stick together, right?!) - If I were in a situation where I felt trapped, miserable, at my wit's end, useless etc etc with no-one to turn to, I would welcome sympathy and even positive viewpoints. Chances are that by the time I posted in this particular forum I was already feeling pretty worthless and like all hope was lost. Sometimes the positive outlooks are needed to make people realise that even though they think the worst and feel the worst, there are alternative POSITIVE viewpoints, whether they are the case or not.

I am sure that there are instances, even in this forum, where someone has jumped to a conclusion or felt like nothing was working out only to realise later, after some REAL constructive advice and support, that things aren't so bad after all. By all means, shoot me if I am wrong, but I would wager that there are even cases where, *gasp* things worked out alright in the end in spite of the initial post/reaction/bad situation.

I think this is a completely fair assessment. And yes, if the OP is the non-USC, where do they turn to for advice/support? Maybe the situation described is six of one and half a dozen of the other. We're all mature people who know that there are two sides to the story. Even in the case of the USC being the OP, there's sufficient outrage/lack of understanding in society about bringing home a foreign bride/husband to make the USC feel scared about admitting defeat to his/her family and friends.

The OP deserves to receive constructive advice on the situation whether they are guilty or not, because until proven otherwise we cannot assume either innocence or guilt. Any good lawyer knows that.

And in certain circumstances, as you stated, what might seem like an impossible situation at the time of posting may turn out ok, given that the OP receives sufficient impartial advice.

I just think it is important for people who are perhaps in situations that justify posting in this forum, or even those that *feel* they are in a situation that justifies posting in this forum (USC or RANUSC) to be able to put a situation out there and receive a plethora of advice from various angles and people.

I know I can be terrible at jumping to wrong conclusions (and I am not saying that this is always the case with topics in this thread) so sometimes it is nice to hear words of support and alternative options that may not have been considered previously. Likewise it is nice to hear constructive ways of dealing with a situation in a variety of ways, not just one.

For example consider this situation:

Partner1 (either USC or RANUSC - this can be interchangeable) finds out Partner2 has been talking to women/men online. They are freaking out - Partner2 is obviously cheating and should be deported/divorced (if RANUSC) or (if USC) Partner1 doesn't know where they stand - they want to leave, get a divorce but they have just uprooted their whole life to the USA from the other side of the world and they don't want to have to go through all that again now they have settled down, got a job, made friends etc.

Partner1 is distraught and thinking of the worst case scenario. Of course they may be correct. By offering this info though they may get responses that range from "oh no that's terrible, I hope everything works out ok" to "DIVORCE DIVORCE DIVORCE".

However, the shades of grey may also contain advice about how to proceed if they get a divorce, not just that they should get one. They may also be persuaded to go to marriage counselling, talk to each other, all those "fluffy bunny" things that seem to be looked down upon by some. Hell, they may even find out in the long run that Partner2 was merely feeling lonely and isolated and talking to both men and women online from their own country (and not necessarily to plot taking over the world or gloat about their GC) for a bit of support from a culture they are familiar with.

I think that it is impossible to always address a situation from the same viewpoint and while it is fine that alternative points of view are offered, by no means should the "softly softly" approach be criticised - in some cases it may even save a relationship from rash decisions being made.

Spot on Aly.

I think too often we forget that people are broken, but people can also be fixed too. It's not always rainbows and puppy dogs, but it's not always grim and bleak either. My father cheated on my mother when I was a pre-teen, and it almost destroyed our family. It was an unforgivable situation, and yet somehow (to completely simplify the situation) my mother managed to forgive him, and they are still married to this day, more or less happily. Had my mother come here seeking advice, she'd have inevitably heard the "DIVORCE! DIVORCE! DIVORCE!" drum beat. And had my father been an immigrant, the drumbeat would have included "DEPORT! DEPORT! DEPORT" and "HE WAS JUST USING YOU!" So I would hope that she'd also have been able to find some advice to "seek counseling and see if there's anything left of your relationship to salvage." That may be the fluffy, unrealistic "sugar-coated" view that some of our members don't think is helpful, but thank goddess someone talked that kind of sense to my mom. She didn't do it for the children, or for financial reasons, or for anything else other than she felt she owed it to herself and her family to work it out. That was her decision, and her situation. Someone else in that situation might have dumped the bastard and move on with their lives. That's not a wrong answer either, but it's important to know that it's not the only answer. Because there aren't just 2 sides, there's about a billion sides, and they're all different.

Good point well made - in a similar situation, my dad had an affair (not just cheated once) with one of my mum's friends. I think mum believes she wasn't the first one but she turned a blind eye or tried to work through it until it got to the point she couldn't anymore. She ended up breaking up with him, he married the other woman (who was a b*tch), got divorced, lost contact with me for four years, had a string of failed relationships, moved around a lot and was in and out of jobs, suffered from depression...

Mum on the other hand fought tooth and nail through a messy divorce, bringing up three children on benefits as well as keeping a car on the road (more expensive here than in the US!!!) and paying a mortgage on a house in a nice area all while going back to college for six years to get qualifications she didn't manage to in school that would enable her to go back to uni and complete her Bachelor's degree (again all on benefits with three young children - I was 9 and my youngest brother was 3 when my dad left). Now she is a head teacher in a private school on about $70k a year (this might be a conservative estimate - I don't ask her about it much).

I think it speaks volumes that such different situations and different resolutions can have such different results. What is right for one person isn't right for another. The example I have given has shown that no matter how hard something is to go through (and I haven't even mentioned the half of the difficulties) there is always a solution even when you don't expect things to pick up. I am certain that this is also the case for people in relationships and marriages involving USCs and RANUSCs - hell, if you cut me I still bleed, even if I am not American.

Your mum is inspirational!

Truly - it's what made me train to be a teacher. Pity the profession has been degraded by so much government BS, red tape and paperwork - doesn't feel like it is about the children anymore so finished my degree then got an office job Will look into things more in the US

I just finished my teaching job on Friday. I'm considering NOT going back into teaching at all. The govt BS, red tape and bureaucracy plus lowering of standards across the board has put me off going back. I love my subject and I love being in the classroom. What happens outside of the classroom is truly demoralising at times.
Plus, I'd have to completely retrain in California. I don't know whether I'm prepared to put myself through the stress anymore. An office job sounds great right now.

*temporary thread hijack*

Agreed - I love the kids but even with my lack of experience I can see how it isn't like it used to be. Office job is ok but it isn't very fulfilling - wanting to set up my own business in the US and hopefully, if it is successful, offer opportunities for young people to be employed part time while going through school in something other than fast food or grocery stores! I'd love to offer opportunities to young people based on their imaginations, work ethic and skill rather than their ability to learn by rote and get a piece of paper - it's so competitive nowadays with degrees that are two-a-penny that I would like to think that there are opportunities for young people that don't involve going to uni

oops, it was a thread hijack. Apologies to the OP I sometimes forget which thread I'm writing on.

Anyway, your plans sound great. I really hope they come to fruition in the way you hope.

This is how I feel right now. I am SO tired of the gov't BS and red tape, paperwork (god, you'd think I'd be used to this considering this freaking immigration journey) that I just feel my usefulness in this profession is at an end. I've been teaching 13 years now...and this is the longest my "burn out" feeling has lasted. It started before school began in August and continues today. Unless someone has been in our shoes, they can't fully appreciate where these feelings come from either. I've been looking into changing careers completely...going back to drafting or something else different. The sad thing is, I would miss my kids. But you just get to the point where it's hard to keep going when all you want to do is teach, ya know? Regulations, paperwork, and bureaucracy. That's what makes education such an unattractive field these days. No wonder there are shortages in education. *sigh*

Sorry for continuing to derail this thread.

Lol! I totally empathise with you. Maybe we should start a new thread. *Makes Jeraly start a new thread*

Good idea...seems like there are a lot of us that feel this way.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=114917

*end of thread de-railment*

here it is, all fixed now.

Omoba is right. We must examine all these things and understand ourselves. That is the most important way to reaching any form of peace and stability in a relationship.

Tammy