Yeah, gotta say my previous post about being "over it" was dealt a severe blow by Sat's wife's followup post. Not over it anymore. An apology or just complete silence would have been better than whatever the hell that was. I'm with Jefferey and Babbiesgirl. What started as an unadvised "joke" has perhaps revealed some true colors. And while I could be cynical and write this off as just a cold-hearted lawyer-wannabe getting his feet wet, I know of at least one other attorney and his fiancee who would have never, ever even considered doing this to their friends on this board.

You know...usually when we have people who don't often frequent the Russian forum pop in, it's to either up their post count with a "me too" post or to harass us cavemen for importing our Russian sex slaves. But you had a whole outpouring of well-wishers mobilizing on your behalf. These are some good people. They may not be "the smartest guy in the room" but they cared enough to stop what they were doing to offer a complete stranger any kind of support they could.

The "joke" was in poor taste, but would have been forgiven, if not forgotten, with a simple apology. The "suckers" comment and the subsequent followup, however...well I'm just sorry that we've all turned out to be little squiggly marks on your computer for your own amusement. Maybe you should listen to your wife and spend less time here.

That's a nince little lala leap you took there, wasn't it? How the he!! did you come to that brilliant conclusion? Yesterday night, people browsing VJ, saw a thread titled "My wife left me!" followed by:
So naturally, as is the nature of VJ-ers, people posted various sympathetic an commiserating words to the OP, only to be told, a short while later that

That's a proverbial 'slap in the face' if I ever saw one. To make matters worse...on comes the errant wife and arrogantly states, rather callously:


In effect poopooing on well-intentioned VJ-ers even further. So not only are we suckers but we're 'stupid', take the internet too seriously, and are just a silly pastime for until(if is more appropriate a word, methinks) the Mr. passes the BAR exam.
This whole thread is just insulting, IMO and I agree w/ those that are upset at being made fools of. What I cannot understand, is how one can equate peoples' anger at being made to look like a fool for offering sympathy to someone who's marriage is over, to insecurity/lack of confidence in their relationship?
-P

That is so sad,I'm sorry to hear that.

Keep reading....we are idiots, apparently

Good Lord! There's alotta drama over here.

It is a self created "trying" time. Plus all we have done and will do is follow the law and procedure as it was written. Nothing trying in that. At the law firm I worked we did hundreds of visas like this, and there was nothing "trying" about it.

All my "suggestions" and "advice" about the VJ process has been highly accurate and I would find it hard to believe that any of it would suddenly become "skeptical". The only thing people should be skeptical about is other people's personal lives, because who would really reveal that to a group of online strangers?

I am confused here. You don't know who I am, where I live, where I am from. I am just an anonymous poster. I find it difficult how anyone on here can offer "aid" and "comfort" to anyone else on here. Those are the kinds of things that can only be done in person in my opinion and not through type written words by anonymous people across the internet.

Friends? Friends are people that you invite in your home, go for a drink with, etc. Not random people you met on an internet board. Acquaintances, at best.

Wow.

You know, you can tell a lot about a person by the way they treat the waiter at a restaurant. Likewise, I think you can learn a lot about a person by the way they treat "anonymous posters" and "acquaintances."

You seem like a smart person, Sat. Maybe one day you'll learn how to have a little class. In the meantime I really do hope you'll take your wife's advice and move on to someplace more worthy of your considerable intellect.

Ever heard of trying as in emotional?

This comment was made after your spouse stated, anything on the internet should be taken with a grain of salt.

Okay, I think you've made your point we are pretty much worthless. Since we don't really know you.

I'll let someone I consider a friend answer for himself, even though I guess I should consider him just a random acquaintance. Since we've never formally met.

I feel sorry for you Satellite, but for other reasons now.

I am reminded of what I read in another topic, where Slim wrote:

"Well that pretty much clears up everything.
What an efficient bunch here in the Russia Forum! Thanks, guys!"

people's personal lives, because who would really reveal that to a group of online strangers?



I don't get what drives the cold and unfriendly attitude you inflict on fellow members...but it's probably some need to draw negative attention to yourself...which you do quite well. And we are certainly feeding your needs with our reactions to you and your wife's forum gamesmanship (if, indeed, your wife is truly involved in this milieu as you indicate). I do have a suggestion for you...if you don't like or want friendly or "personal" posts...how about you (and your wife) knocking off the bogus "family drama" posts...posts only true friends would tolerate or care about. If we have to continue to suffer you, how about sticking to "just the facts" like a good little lawyer.

Nothing like an arrogant lawyer wannabe to try to argue his way out of something but instead digs himself in deeper. An apology would have been simple and the right thing to do. Instead, nothing but arrogance flows forth.

Im with Mox and Kazan, despite your self proclaimed accuracy of information, which I do not dispute, everyone is better off without you. Listen to your wife, stay off the boards, right now, she seems like the "smartest person in the room" that you are currently in. You should follow her advice.

I just don't understand--why did you bother even posting here in the first place?

This guy and his wife are 'tards..............

Sounds like an arrogant ba$tard.........

I see. Well, I appologize. I was simply defending the Russian forum. In the polls forum, people seemed to be anti-Russian so I took it a bit personal. But no harm done. Forgive me?

On the other hand, this thread has exploded! And it seems to me that this was a bad idea from the beginning and I think Satellite needs to simply appologize. I agree with most of the other posters, but everyone is making good points. Is there any way out of this? What was it Rodney King said...

Now there's someone who didn't read the thread before posting...

Sorry, just trying to lighten the mood.

*Slides in like Kramer*
.....Someone call a waiter??? Does this mean that I must be really ignorant and uneducated? I think not. In fact, half of the waiters I work with are graduates of William & Mary's law school, here in Williamsburg. But guess what? They're waiting tables. Sure its a personal choice, but there must be a reason right? Well, in this area like many others, lawyers are too plentiful. A dime a dozen. I know many many people who have passed the BAR and I must say that not many of them seem superior in the brains department. Maybe its just me. What does a waiter know?

Sorry for all the late posting. Just catching up on all the action. Was working all day.

There was no need because by the time I read this topic it was already revealed what was going on. (That and I remembered last time there was a "huge, emotionally-moving" thread started by Satellite. (Or Mrs. Satellite to be more precise!)



See, this is where exprience comes in. AKDiver played the prank-to-end-all-pranks here on VJ about two years ago. He was crucified by some, adored by others, but either way, it was an amazing course of events.



Maybe not very smart, but very Russian in a "so what?" kind of way.



Satellite will pass the bar. No question about that.

And if you don't know who he is, then you don't know jack about the Russia forum. I know he doesn't post outside the Russia forum very often, but for using his limited time inside the forum to provide very beneficial answers to those in need, saying that losing him wouldn't be a loss is a waste of keystrokes. Thanks for sharing your opinion about someone you know nothing about. Now go vote for President. There are plenty of people running whom you know nothing about, I'm sure you can pass judgement on at least one of them.



See my end comments.



Have you ever met any Russians? They reek of arrogance and hauteur! Sure they can be nice and friendly and caring, but lash out against one and see if you're met with anything but arrogance. And try to get one to show some humility! HA!!!

Years and years and generation after generation of getting $#!T on has hardened the ex-Soviet persona to the point that unfortunate things (even in jest) are viewed, and taken with.... a grain of salt.



I don't know if I've been "hardened" to all the unfortunate stories posted on here, but it's important to remember that even though there are real people behind the screen names and avatars, YOU DON'T KNOW THEM!!! Sure we form an emotional bond to everyone we interact with, even virtually, but when it comes down to it, at the end of the day, VJ is just a website full of people spending time on the internet.

In your "real life" who cares what anyone thinks or says on here? Use what's beneficial for you and discard the rest. It's nice to get support and knowledge from others, but it's still only "virtual" support and knowledge. Keep that in mind.

That said, I know it's difficult to detatch the lifeline that is VJ while you're going through the process. There really is no support or understanding for what you're going through. None of your "real friends" out there in the away-from-VJ world know what's going on. Your parents, your family, no one understands. It's great to come over to VJ and be understood and amongst people who "get it." But, just because someone does something like this, and takes you through the emotional wringer, doesn't mean they're not a good and beneficial poster. Everyone is on here for their own reasons and if he chooses to bow out after passing the bar, more power to him. He's done more than his fair share.

Anyone that says less of him should step into his shoes and provide 100% accurate information with supporting links and instructions on how to complete the task. Oh, and they should also be fluent in Russian. And have a Soviet homeland that they fled from to seek asylum in the U.S. when they were a child. And then, they should be able to connect Israel with Russia and the FSU and the family history and knowledge that entails. Basically, you don't have to like the guy (or his wife) but a more valuable poster in the Russia forum I can't think of. And when you break it all down, did you come to VJ to get your loved one a visa or did you come to VJ to make internet buddies?



I wouldn't say it's disrespect, it's more of an indifference. If you understood the complex nature of Mr. and Mrs. Satellite's relationship (and all relationships within the Russia forum) then you would more easily understand how they could post something like this and say it's not a big deal. Because in reality.... it's not a big deal. So you had shock and sympathy on reading this post. OK. Reply to it as you see fit. If you're angry or upset at being taken, then stick to visa information and leave the emotional garbage out of it. If you're on here to deal with emotional garbage, then you can't balk at getting wrapped up in an emotional thread.



Those of you without your fiance(e)s, wives/husbands, etc. here already, I can understand why you're upset and how easy it is to get caught up with all the posts here on VJ. How you do get emotionally involved in this forum and how you genuinely do care for those that post here. When we read stuff like this thread, our hearts do go out to those people.

But.... wait until you're married to a Russian for a while. All that will change. Although I'm not saying you're going to stop caring for people and not hurt for them when you read something like this, all that Russian indifference is going to rub off on you and you're going to "get it" when someone posts stuff like this. I'm not going to waste too many keystrokes trying to explain it becuase it's not something that can really be explained. It's something that trully must be experienced.

And, before I knew the truth behind this thread (I entered late so my response changed somewhat) my original reply was going to be:

Satellite, sorry to hear about that. You're still a very valuable asset here and I'm going to hate to see you go. But, that's life and I get it. There are more important thigs to do now.

I know you guys have had a rough go. Working and going to school (and just being young) makes a marriage extremely hard. You guys have really tried, but once again, that's life.

And it's really not so bad, is it? There are 48,000 more waiting on the website if you choose to go that route again and if not, now you can concentrate on the bar and once you're a lawyer here, it's not like there's going to be a shortage of @$$ is it?

Once you're working, it's going to be @$$ soup. I'm talking boy-band @$$. Until then, study hard, pass that bar, and get back into the action! Good luck on your new Journey and hope you have a nice life.

Slim

Oh, and I forgot to add, not all lawyers are arrogant @$$holes.

We have other lawyers on the forum and on VJ and none of them seem to be as arrogant as Satellite. Ever stop to wonder why?

When you guys make the connection I don't think you'll be as pissed off.

Thank you, first of all, for writing such a considered response to many of the comments here. It is true that many of us who posted do not understand the dynamics within a Russian relationship or have sufficient experience to 'get' the Russian psyche.

I think if you had caught the thread early enough then your reply was adequately expressed. There isn't much any of us can do when relationships go wrong except to say we are sorry and we will support you all we can. But, as you say, life goes on.

However, my objection, was not to the original post so much. It wasn't such a big deal no. What became a big deal was the insulting language and transferring of blame later to those who had been gracious enough *to* care.

You might well say, why should you care and do you really care about some anonymous user on the internet? But the fact is, I really genuinely believe that many of Satellite's VJ compatriots actually DID care.

Many of us on VJ have actually met our fiance/fiancee's via the internet. We cared enough about someone to take a leap of faith and go out there and meet them in person. Satellite's dismissal of the emotional response displayed by these 'suckers' is dismissive of the foundation of many of our relationships. It is insulting at worst and naive at best.

I have no doubt that Satellite has offered many people constructive and well-informed advice and agree that this is no reason for him to leave the forums. That would be a ridiculous suggestion. But, let's just look at the motivation behind his wife posting this in the first place. She wanted to kick up a fuss, she doesn't want him to post so she upset his 'buddies'. It worked...except, she underestimated her own husband, because he doesn't actually care whether she upset any of his 'buddies' or not.

When you say it is not a big deal. Maybe it's not, not to me really. I don't know him. But, this was posted on the Russian forum. I don't think it's of any consolation to the people who regularly post here that this is a typically Russian thing and therefore no big deal. The language used by both the OP and his wife was insulting. Just a 'sorry, it was a joke!' would have made all the difference here.

The Russian psyche explanatory stuff doesn't cut it with me, sorry.

Sorry Slim, but there is "Russian style" indifference and humor, and then there is just callousness. There's nothing uniquely "Russian" about his/their series of posts that was somehow lost in translation on us Westerners. If that were the case we would see more of it here. But we don't. In fact, the Russians who do appear here from time to time (usually the fiancees) are almost always very courteous and pleasant, if not a wee bit feisty. Almost without exception they have been not only great technical resources but wonderful personalities to have around.

And I really think you do a disservice to our little community by trying to write Sat's position off as us Westerners simply not understanding the Russian culture. In fact, you also do a disservice to Sat and his wife. Let them stand by their words. Let them defend or back down from their argument on its own merits and not hide behind some flimsy "it's cultural, you wouldn't understand" thing. Satellite is an intelligent guy, and he's lived in the west for long enough to understand exactly what he was saying. He knows the Western meaning of "sucker" and all its implications, and even his Russian wife admitted that the comment was "beyond [her]," that she was "shocked," and she even apologized on his behalf. Clearly at least she knew it was inappropriate. I won't even bother with a blow-by-blow of the rest of his comments, but I doubt very seriously that even Satellite will hide behind the "cultural misunderstanding" label. Satellite has been very clear, and I see no evidence that he believes he has been misunderstood.

All of this could have been avoided by Sat either apologizing for the charade, or even just not replying at all after saying it was a joke. But he took great pains to explain himself, and I for one will take him at his word. If he cares to respond and agree with you that we all just simply don't understand Russian humor and we have all simply misunderstood him, then let him speak. But I seriously doubt that's going to happen.

I do agree with you that not all lawyers are arrogant a$$holes, and I'll even go so far as to say that the percentage probably skews right along with the percentage of a$$holes in any profession. One of those "good" lawyers is a member of this very forum, and it's inconceivable to me that either he or his fiancee would ever disrespect this community the way Satellite did today. (er...yesterday...damn I need to go to bed.)

And while I'm here I'll just say that the final paragraph in seanconneryii's last post is about the best thing I've read in this entire thread. He's managed to capture in a small paragraph what I've been trying to do over however many posts this is. So if I come across as incoherent, then just go back and re-read his post and forget mine.

I vote we close this thread and throw it away. Its really causing tension between members and that's just not good.

I second the motion!!

I third that motion. This has caused a lot of upset for many here.

Slim, I read your treatise on Satellite and I'd sum it up as playing "devil's advocate" mixed in with a little "rock star' adoration. I also get you have decided to be the contrarian here. I think you show a lot of common sense and you seem to have thick skin when it comes to insults and taunts...maybe because you give as good as you get. If you don't take offense at what's gone down, good for you and you're saving yourself a lot of grief.

I don't have your prospective or views or thick skin...but I do know something about honesty, integrity, and accountability. In my world nobody gets a pass on being civil and respectful.. This includes professional athletes and Hollywood stars and politicians...and it certainly includes posters on VJ. I don't care about useful data if I have to put up with unclean communication and immature games and blatant insults and taunts in order to gain info I can get elsewhere. That's a lousy trade-off for me. And nobody gets special treatment or the honorary title of Russia forum Czar just for providing the very information and assistance the VJ forums were designed for.

We all have our own problems, struggles and sob stories...but ultimately we have to act like adult men and women. There is a lot of tension and emotions on this forum...so some jokes or clean fun is welcome...but there are boundaries and there are limits.

I don't like sideways "F**K YOU" posts and I will cease to read any of Satellite's posts. I guess I'm retiring from being a "sucker."

A few things to add to the recent responses:
(1) Unlike many of you here, I did not join VJ for emotional support. When I started going through the process I came here strictly to find: [a] what to file, [b] where to file it, and [c] how long will it take. Because in 2004 when we decided to do the whole fiancee visa thing I was genuinely ignorant of how to do it. Once I filed my papers based on the guides here in early 2004 I would come visit maybe once every two weeks to make sure none of the rules have changed.
(2) I am surprised at how quickly everyone started to hate me the "anonymous poster" for honestly posting that I think everyone takes this whole internet thing way too seriously and at the same token how quickly they disregarded anything positive that has come from my posts in the past.
(3) After my wife arrived VJ has been just a hobby to me, a practice run at answering questions and making arguments about a topic I am genuinely interested in.
(4) Call me traditional but I cannot understand how someone can form "deep" attachments to a "virtual" community of people. For those that have, I feel sorry for you.
(5) "Arrogant, low class, and bastard", just to name a few characteristics that have been described about me. I could never form any of those opinions about anyone until I spent at least a few hours interacting with them in person.
Anyway to finish off, in true Russian fashion, as Slim had suggested, here is a video clip of another "sucker" and hopefully an ending message to everyone else: "все будeт хорошо"

I will respond one last time on this issue...and then honor my commitment not to read Satellite posts. Anyone living inside the USA who does not see that the internet is THE WAY for people to connect with each other and have true interpersonal relationships is blind. When I look around i see email, instant messaging, teleconferences,, chat rooms and common interest forums as a major way for people to communicate. Maybe this is not good...but it is the communication phenomena that is taking place in the 21st century.

Many of us met our fiancees and wives thanks to internet web sites and we used email, instant messaging, Skype and Yahoo Messenger or AIM to talk to them long distance.

So...I think Satellite's pity for those of us who use the internet to have real relationships reveals his ignorance of the world around him.

Judge not lest ye be judged.

Many of these people have met their significant other in online communities. Telling them it's stupid to become close demeans their relatioinships. I have had an online forum for ten years that has been on Good Morning America, Discovery channel and several other shows, magazines ..etc. because it's helped so many people all over the world find life-changing support. We are a close group (who btw meets face to face at least once a year). I'm damn proud of that. So that is just what??? A joke to you??? No real support???

You sir, are a joke. If you don't like it here it's simple... don't come. You don't have the right to make fun or judge anyone else.

The fact that you can not interact with another human being if you are not face to face says quite a bit about you.

You don't want the recourse, you should not have been so stupid to try and defend this childish behavior.

You believe you are superior...which in itself makes you look arrogant, pathetic and weak.

You dare judge these other fine people for reaching out to you after the adolescent behavior of you and your spouse???

It must be so hard for you being so perfect and above everyone else. Not that you care, but I have nothing but pity for you.

To the rest of you caring souls... don't let one arrogant know-it-all take the good from you or make you question your own agenda. Having a caring heart is one of life's greatest blessings.

Satellite, maybe next time you and your wife have an argument, you can use that intelligence of yours to find an alternative way to deal with it…you know, other than waste other people’s time with a lie.

Saludos,
Caro

I too (am I "fourthing?") believe this thread has outlived its useful life. I think everything that can be said has been said. Hoping a moderator will step in with the padlock before it just becomes a catch-all for drive-by's.

When did I say the internet is not good for communicating? It is a great medium for communication and sharing information. I am all for it. Everyone on here did meet their fiancee in person, before he or she considered doing the visa process? At some point virtual did meet reality. In most cases the two happened to be the same, but you did still meet, right? And the end objective of the visa process is to be together, not to remain virtually apart and ultimately the internet in our cases helped facilitate that.

The essensce of this country is free speech if you haven't forgotten. Since when did you become the moderator of that when even the government needs a compelling interest before they do.

I did not laugh at anyone's relationship or how it was formed. Not sure where that came from.

As to fellow people on this board, I don't recall the objective being to meet together. Nor do I recall meeting anyone on here. I see VJ as a virtual library of thoughts, ideas, and experiences of real people. And everyone can take whatever he or she wants from it.

Satellite, why not just apologize and admit the joke was in very poor taste. No need to defend anymore counselor. Maybe then ask Ewok to close this one on down. I think a lot of people would feel more at ease.

Sat you gotta admit that calling us "suckers" was rude and mauvais-ton, even though we're just virtual people to you. And since we're just a bunch of virtuals anyway, a simple "sorry for a bad joke" won't sap your emotional energy too much, will it? Consider it as fiiling an entry in a timeline and be done with it already.

And Slim I think you also owe an apology to those Russians here whom you so easily generalized as arrogant and indifferent by definition.

If I went with your logic I wouldn't be marrying Nick. You can have real relationships with people you meet online.
In fact, there is a person on this board who I am very close to and would tell anything to and he IS my friend.

Yup, we have free speach in this country, but that still does not give you the right to say whatever you want, anytime you want. If you dont believe me, walk into a bank and scream "this is a robbery, everyone on the floor" or walk up to the security folks at the airport the next time you are there and scream "I have a bomb". Try your "it was all a joke, no one got hurt because I didnt have a gun or a bomb" defence. See how far you get with that arguement counsellor. For an aspiring lawyer, you sure seem to be deficient in the common sense and ethical behavior department.

You all need to lighten up!

Sat always has good and generous advice.

As I understand it Olga gets mad at Sat (Mark) for spending too much? time on this board (could be ). She hijacked his account and posted the OP to get back at him.

Some of the n00b's on here don't quite get this and have taken offense.

I'd say the "suckers" part was more in jest than anything else, besides, how do we really know it was Sat and not Olga playing with Sats account again?

Does it really matter?

The good news is I do not log on during weekends, so I guess I missed all the fun.

The examples you bring up are methods of unprotected speech. Here are a few more examples to add to your list:
(1) Advocacy of unlawful conduct
(2) Defamation
(3) Obscenity
(4) Fighting Words
(5) Deceitful, untruthful, and misleading forms of commercial speech
Your examples fall under the first category. You can add screaming "fire" in a crowded movie theater. That is the classical case. Now if you think criticizing (i.e. opinions) someone falls into any of the above five categories, you are in trouble.

I'll jump back into the fray here and (sorry didn't quote everyone) respond first to mox when he posted that I was trying to cover Satellite's responses as simply a cultural thing that we westerners couldn't understand. Not exactly what I meant but close. I'll simply say that when you have a young (pissed off) Russian wife living with you in the States and she does something that wouldn't normally be done in the States, there's not a whole lot you can do to rectify the situation and if you're lucky you can laugh at it. Too bad it has to be at others' expense but when it comes down to it, is it better to have the Russia forum's panties in a bunch or your wife's? And I'm in no way shape or form trying to say that Satellite doesn't understand American culture to the point where he inadvertantly offended everyone, all I'm saying is he avoided being even more in the dog house and he and his wife got to enjoy themselves a little bit.

Work. School. Sleep. Trying to squeeze in some "us" time and trying not to piss her off in the mean time. I'm not jumping in on his side saying he's right or wrong, I'm simply saying that if your wife isn't here already and you're not working and going to school (and so is she) then you're probably posting things with a whole lot more emotion and a whole lot more time to type.

Simply put, once you're Journey switches to "living the Dream" here in the States, you're going to give two-$#!Ts about how the people on VJ feel about you. Sure, it's nice and it's wonderful, but your reality is living under the same roof with you already, and she (and her happiness) takes priority over you stupid blat visa blat journey blat. (That was a direct quote, by the way.)

Next, on to seanconneryii, you hit it spot-on with your reply to my post. I did play "devil's advocate" and I am the contrarian here. I don't get emotionally involved in this forum. Sure, I do feel for people and I do say "Oh man" when I read something like the OP, but I'm not going to agree with anyone that says Satellite should leave the forum because he called others suckers. Call it "rock star adoration" or whatever you want, but for me it's a matter of simply being honest about why we're all on here and then having the integrity to stick to it. If you want to hold me accountable for that, go ahead. Should Satellite get a free pass for calling people suckers? That's up to you. But if it were up to me, it'd roll right off my back as I did a little more reading on the history of the Mr. and Mrs. Satellite relationship. I know you're skin isn't as thick as mine and you're in a different situation, but try to view this from his situation, not yours!

And to close this thread down because of tensions it causes is like telling your wife to go home because the stress she causes.

All I'm saying by my posts here is simply this - I like VJ. I like all of you. I genuinely do have feelings for what is said and posted on here. However, my wife and I, and the problems or things that we do in our relationship is going to trump whatever feelings get hurt here on VJ. And when something happens in our "real life" together at home, I could give a d@mn what my "virtual buddies" think about me or her.

And truth be told... most of you are going to disappear in a few months anyway. Are we going to be sad because you're gone? Maybe. But, we're all going to take solace in the fact that you've now moved on with your "real life." And for people like Satellite, who continues to take time out of his "real life", time that all of you seem to measure (counting days from approvals, counting down interview dates, "one more precious day closer", etc., etc., etc.) are all failing to remember that he's taking that precious time out of his day to be here with his virtual buddies instead of doing something with his "real wife."




So you're going to deny that Russians, by very definition, are arrogant and indifferent?

If you can show me a Russian being humble or ashamed, I'll consider an apology. Until then, I'm sticking to my generalization.

And don't try to show me pictures of Russians crying after the war or something like that. Grief in no way signifies compassion, it's a response. Most of the other Russians in the picture are saying "It's not my business. Why I must be sad because of this tragedy. It is tragedy sure, but it's not tragedy for me. And anyway it is war. Yes of course people will be die in war. What can we do?" (And then they make that little hand-clapping-clearing into the "I don't know" and go about their business.)

Prove me wrong. I have hope that there are Russians out there who aren't arrogant and indifferent. Who are humble and compassionate. Who can be empathetic without being condescending.

But so far, Satellite isn't setting a very good example. I know he's not Russian, but the same Soviet "Why should I care about you?" mentality that helped him form his views and responses has also shaped the views and responses of most of the Russians I know.

And I realize not everyone is a certain way all the time. Sure, even I cried when Old Yeller died. But, generalizations can be made about me and everyone else with some accuracy, no?

As Susan Powter used to shout, "Stop The Insanity!"

Come on Sat, stop the poking. Let this one die.

Well I guess we're not gonna let it die. Dammit, I just hosed off all the mud and put on clean clothes. But hey, I'll jump back in...


I can dig this. But that's not what's really going on here. Because if that's what was truly going on, Satellite would have come back and just said "sorry folks, my wife hijacked my account, it's not true, nothing to see here." That's all it would have taken. A real apology would have been gravy, but whatevs.

I even forgave the "sucker" comment. It stung, it pissed me off, but I swallowed my pride and was prepared to move on. Again, if it was a doghouse scenario, then it would have ended right there. Satellite had the option of just not replying or issuing an apology. I did not ask for nor expect the latter, the former would have been just fine to me.

But he went even beyond that, and that's where it became apparent that this was not just a domestic squabble. It might have started that way, but it wound up showing Satellite's true feelings about this community. And hey, he's entitled to his feelings, and unlike some others I think he's even entitled to say what he thinks, up to but not including shouting fire in a theater. In fact, I'd much rather he were crystal clear about his opinions of this membership rather than holding it back. So kudos for that I guess.


Also agreed. But again, I think you're reading Satellite's motivations all wrong. Perhaps he can clarify.


Also agree. In fact, if it ever becomes an issue in my marriage, you can expect an hasta la vista from me, post haste.


This is actually good advice, and I think a lot of us really did give Satellite a free pass, even after the "sucker" comment. But it also raises a really good point that seanconneryii addressed in a previous post, and that is: if Satellite doesn't give a rats ### what anyone here thinks, why the occasionall forum drama that is seemingly designed to pull our emotional chords? Given recent events it really does seem like Satellite is toying with us. Maybe he could clarify this as well.


I think the analogy fails, but hell if we want to keep the thread going I'm all for it as long as it continues to be useful discussion. Maybe I'm not seeing what I think I'm seeing, although every one of Sat's posts continues to reinforce my perception. The moderators will almost always close a thread at the OP's request, so Satellite need only contact a moderator if he gets tired of us.


Can I get you a little nail polish with that Nancy?


There is a difference between proud and arrogant. The vast majority of Russians I have met are proud. I've met only a few arrogant Russians (some of them *ahem* online). And Russian indifference is just body language. It's kind of the equivalent of the American tendency to "strike a pose" when you feel the need to look cool. Russians are insanely curious, they just don't want to look like they are.

However, if you need proof of Russian compassion, I'll direct you to this video. It looks to be a BBC production, but pay attention to the Russian social workers.

Great post, Kirk. well said. But I must say that Slim has some good points as well. This damn thread is certainly not lacking any excitement.

Some thoughts if I might. Many of you are going through a stressful period of your life, I can empathize as my wife comes from Russia and I haven't been on the forum until our AOS was held up at the TSC. Thought I would come back to VJ to see what is going on with others in my predicament. At this time instead of spending your valuable time berating this fellow and his wife might I suggest that you start preparing for the time your loved one arrives, this country and people are so much different than Russia, and it is going to take some real effort and sacrifices on your part to assist your new spouse in adjusting. Try finding a Russian store in your neighborhood where they can shop for favorite goodies, if they bring children check into the schools and see what the children are going to be faced with language wise. My wife for example is going back to college (difference than in Russia a college is distinctly different than a university), and besides being blessed with excellent English she decide to enroll in a TOEFL class to sharpen her skills. Look to see if you have a Russian Orthodox or Ukranian Orthodox church nearby where your spouse ca