When I was in Iran...I was on show for almost the whole time I was there. This meant being invited for dinner at some relatives house and being forced to stay the night and next day too...Every weekend was like this...Then having every person in town drop by unannounced to meet me and have tea. I dealt with it most of the time with poise and grace. But when I became pregnant I was really sick..So once I did not come out of my room, when we had unexpected visitors come to the house. Now I find that my husbands friends wife was "offended" when I did not make an appearance.
Second, I have been struggling with colon problems and then depression while in the USA. There were some Iranian relatives in town (found out now) that wanted to visit me. But my husband knew I was not well. Instead of telling them the truth that I was laid low with physical problems he told them I was in India during the time of their visit.
What is wrong with telling the truth, I ask????
Somehow, I am feeling a little pissed off.
Full Version: Here is a culture difference that bugs me...
I have a couple Iranian-American friends who say that hospitality is held in very, very high esteem not so much by them (as they've assimilated to American norms), but by their parents and grandparents and things like poverty or illness or just not feeling like it aren't excuses not to be hospitable like they would be here.
It's probably easier to say 'She's in India' than to try to explain 'She's not being rude, she's American and in America it is considered permissible to beg off of a social duty when you are ill.'
It's probably easier to say 'She's in India' than to try to explain 'She's not being rude, she's American and in America it is considered permissible to beg off of a social duty when you are ill.'
QUOTE(Caladan @ Feb 21 2008, 12:41 PM) 
I have a couple Iranian-American friends who say that hospitality is held in very, very high esteem not so much by them (as they've assimilated to American norms), but by their parents and grandparents and things like poverty or illness or just not feeling like it aren't excuses not to be hospitable like they would be here.
It's probably easier to say 'She's in India' than to try to explain 'She's not being rude, she's American and in America it is considered permissible to beg off of a social duty when you are ill.'
It's probably easier to say 'She's in India' than to try to explain 'She's not being rude, she's American and in America it is considered permissible to beg off of a social duty when you are ill.'
I agree. And its not for "show", its a form of respect they are paying to you by visiting.
Once i was at my SO's family's house in the mountains of Morocco. i was totally sick with a stomachache and couldn't eat anything. It was during Eid al Kebir, and his sister-in-law made a great big thing of couscous. i just couldn't eat it... i couldn't eat anything.
Instead of explaining the situation, he said: "She doesn't eat couscous." And the poor woman looked at me like i had insulted her and her cooking.
Then i had to explain in my broken Arabic that i was sick, and no one believed me because of what he had already said. it was very frustrating, even though Habibi later explained why.... in any event, i still don't know what's wrong with telling the truth.
Instead of explaining the situation, he said: "She doesn't eat couscous." And the poor woman looked at me like i had insulted her and her cooking.
Then i had to explain in my broken Arabic that i was sick, and no one believed me because of what he had already said. it was very frustrating, even though Habibi later explained why.... in any event, i still don't know what's wrong with telling the truth.
QUOTE(♥JP♥ @ Feb 21 2008, 03:46 PM)
QUOTE(Caladan @ Feb 21 2008, 12:41 PM)
I have a couple Iranian-American friends who say that hospitality is held in very, very high esteem not so much by them (as they've assimilated to American norms), but by their parents and grandparents and things like poverty or illness or just not feeling like it aren't excuses not to be hospitable like they would be here.
It's probably easier to say 'She's in India' than to try to explain 'She's not being rude, she's American and in America it is considered permissible to beg off of a social duty when you are ill.'
It's probably easier to say 'She's in India' than to try to explain 'She's not being rude, she's American and in America it is considered permissible to beg off of a social duty when you are ill.'
I agree. And its not for "show", its a form of respect they are paying to you by visiting.
I understand this...But this is a wife of a DOCTOR friend who visited us numerous times. I am beginning to think my husband didn't say, "my wife is ill and is bedridden."
QUOTE(AlHayatZween @ Feb 21 2008, 03:50 PM)
Once i was at my SO's family's house in the mountains of Morocco. i was totally sick with a stomachache and couldn't eat anything. It was during Eid al Kebir, and his sister-in-law made a great big thing of couscous. i just couldn't eat it... i couldn't eat anything.
Instead of explaining the situation, he said: "She doesn't eat couscous." And the poor woman looked at me like i had insulted her and her cooking.
Then i had to explain in my broken Arabic that i was sick, and no one believed me because of what he had already said. it was very frustrating, even though Habibi later explained why.... in any event, i still don't know what's wrong with telling the truth.
Instead of explaining the situation, he said: "She doesn't eat couscous." And the poor woman looked at me like i had insulted her and her cooking.
Then i had to explain in my broken Arabic that i was sick, and no one believed me because of what he had already said. it was very frustrating, even though Habibi later explained why.... in any event, i still don't know what's wrong with telling the truth.
Yes, lies are not good....It is better they know the truth....
QUOTE(Nutty @ Feb 21 2008, 12:58 PM)
QUOTE(♥JP♥ @ Feb 21 2008, 03:46 PM)
QUOTE(Caladan @ Feb 21 2008, 12:41 PM)
I have a couple Iranian-American friends who say that hospitality is held in very, very high esteem not so much by them (as they've assimilated to American norms), but by their parents and grandparents and things like poverty or illness or just not feeling like it aren't excuses not to be hospitable like they would be here.
It's probably easier to say 'She's in India' than to try to explain 'She's not being rude, she's American and in America it is considered permissible to beg off of a social duty when you are ill.'
It's probably easier to say 'She's in India' than to try to explain 'She's not being rude, she's American and in America it is considered permissible to beg off of a social duty when you are ill.'
I agree. And its not for "show", its a form of respect they are paying to you by visiting.
I understand this...But this is a wife of a DOCTOR friend who visited us numerous times. I am beginning to think my husband didn't say, "my wife is ill and is bedridden."
QUOTE(AlHayatZween @ Feb 21 2008, 03:50 PM)
Once i was at my SO's family's house in the mountains of Morocco. i was totally sick with a stomachache and couldn't eat anything. It was during Eid al Kebir, and his sister-in-law made a great big thing of couscous. i just couldn't eat it... i couldn't eat anything.
Instead of explaining the situation, he said: "She doesn't eat couscous." And the poor woman looked at me like i had insulted her and her cooking.
Then i had to explain in my broken Arabic that i was sick, and no one believed me because of what he had already said. it was very frustrating, even though Habibi later explained why.... in any event, i still don't know what's wrong with telling the truth.
Instead of explaining the situation, he said: "She doesn't eat couscous." And the poor woman looked at me like i had insulted her and her cooking.
Then i had to explain in my broken Arabic that i was sick, and no one believed me because of what he had already said. it was very frustrating, even though Habibi later explained why.... in any event, i still don't know what's wrong with telling the truth.
Yes, lies are not good....It is better they know the truth....
The bedridden thing doesnt work, they will just go into your room to see you and make sure you are ok. If he thought you didnt want to be disturbed thats probebly why he told a while lie.
QUOTE(AlHayatZween @ Feb 21 2008, 03:50 PM)
Once i was at my SO's family's house in the mountains of Morocco. i was totally sick with a stomachache and couldn't eat anything. It was during Eid al Kebir, and his sister-in-law made a great big thing of couscous. i just couldn't eat it... i couldn't eat anything.
Instead of explaining the situation, he said: "She doesn't eat couscous." And the poor woman looked at me like i had insulted her and her cooking.
Then i had to explain in my broken Arabic that i was sick, and no one believed me because of what he had already said. it was very frustrating, even though Habibi later explained why.... in any event, i still don't know what's wrong with telling the truth.
Instead of explaining the situation, he said: "She doesn't eat couscous." And the poor woman looked at me like i had insulted her and her cooking.
Then i had to explain in my broken Arabic that i was sick, and no one believed me because of what he had already said. it was very frustrating, even though Habibi later explained why.... in any event, i still don't know what's wrong with telling the truth.
Think of an analogous social situation here. It's a little harder because we don't have anything directly analogous to that form of hospitality. Maybe a company party or a work environment where you have to handle something with tact in order to avoid giving offense and to be considered a class act.
Here, saying 'I'm not feeling well, I'll pass on the appetizers' isn't taken as an insult to a hostess. But 'I won't come to your party because your cousin gets drunk and gropes me' wouldn't be a tactful way to handle it, but saying "I'm not feeling well, I'll have to decline" wouldn't offend anyone. It's a similar thing, it's just what counts as ritual politeness varies.
Yeah, i totally get it. And really the hospitality thing is wonderful, and my SO's family is wonderful, thank God.
But i just remember at the time being so mad at Habibi because the poor woman looked crushed! And it had nothing to do with the couscous... (which i'm not a big fan of anyway... )
Anyway, i think we're all adjusting... me to them, them to me.
but sometimes i wonder: Am I the high-maintenance American Wife???
But i just remember at the time being so mad at Habibi because the poor woman looked crushed! And it had nothing to do with the couscous... (which i'm not a big fan of anyway...
)Anyway, i think we're all adjusting... me to them, them to me.
but sometimes i wonder: Am I the high-maintenance American Wife???
yeah he just said that so they wouldnt get mad and they also wouldnt bother you in bed or whereever you were. Men are nuts as you can tell women have more common sense to think things through rather than just blurt things out but hey your husband didnt want u to get disturbed. You have a right to be upset tho explain it to him.
QUOTE(♥JP♥ @ Feb 21 2008, 04:04 PM)
QUOTE(Nutty @ Feb 21 2008, 12:58 PM)
QUOTE(♥JP♥ @ Feb 21 2008, 03:46 PM)
QUOTE(Caladan @ Feb 21 2008, 12:41 PM)
I have a couple Iranian-American friends who say that hospitality is held in very, very high esteem not so much by them (as they've assimilated to American norms), but by their parents and grandparents and things like poverty or illness or just not feeling like it aren't excuses not to be hospitable like they would be here.
It's probably easier to say 'She's in India' than to try to explain 'She's not being rude, she's American and in America it is considered permissible to beg off of a social duty when you are ill.'
It's probably easier to say 'She's in India' than to try to explain 'She's not being rude, she's American and in America it is considered permissible to beg off of a social duty when you are ill.'
I agree. And its not for "show", its a form of respect they are paying to you by visiting.
I understand this...But this is a wife of a DOCTOR friend who visited us numerous times. I am beginning to think my husband didn't say, "my wife is ill and is bedridden."
QUOTE(AlHayatZween @ Feb 21 2008, 03:50 PM)
Once i was at my SO's family's house in the mountains of Morocco. i was totally sick with a stomachache and couldn't eat anything. It was during Eid al Kebir, and his sister-in-law made a great big thing of couscous. i just couldn't eat it... i couldn't eat anything.
Instead of explaining the situation, he said: "She doesn't eat couscous." And the poor woman looked at me like i had insulted her and her cooking.
Then i had to explain in my broken Arabic that i was sick, and no one believed me because of what he had already said. it was very frustrating, even though Habibi later explained why.... in any event, i still don't know what's wrong with telling the truth.
Instead of explaining the situation, he said: "She doesn't eat couscous." And the poor woman looked at me like i had insulted her and her cooking.
Then i had to explain in my broken Arabic that i was sick, and no one believed me because of what he had already said. it was very frustrating, even though Habibi later explained why.... in any event, i still don't know what's wrong with telling the truth.
Yes, lies are not good....It is better they know the truth....
The bedridden thing doesnt work, they will just go into your room to see you and make sure you are ok. If he thought you didnt want to be disturbed thats probebly why he told a while lie.
Yes, I know you are right....Especially with the husband being a doctor.
But with telling the relatives "I was in India" because we "now have a joint sponsor" made me a little angry. It makes me sound lazy and like I am just traveling around the world having an extended vacation. When really it's been tough and I've been sick.
QUOTE(♥JP♥ @ Feb 21 2008, 04:04 PM)
QUOTE(Nutty @ Feb 21 2008, 12:58 PM)
QUOTE(♥JP♥ @ Feb 21 2008, 03:46 PM)
QUOTE(Caladan @ Feb 21 2008, 12:41 PM)
I have a couple Iranian-American friends who say that hospitality is held in very, very high esteem not so much by them (as they've assimilated to American norms), but by their parents and grandparents and things like poverty or illness or just not feeling like it aren't excuses not to be hospitable like they would be here.
It's probably easier to say 'She's in India' than to try to explain 'She's not being rude, she's American and in America it is considered permissible to beg off of a social duty when you are ill.'
It's probably easier to say 'She's in India' than to try to explain 'She's not being rude, she's American and in America it is considered permissible to beg off of a social duty when you are ill.'
I agree. And its not for "show", its a form of respect they are paying to you by visiting.
I understand this...But this is a wife of a DOCTOR friend who visited us numerous times. I am beginning to think my husband didn't say, "my wife is ill and is bedridden."
QUOTE(AlHayatZween @ Feb 21 2008, 03:50 PM)
Once i was at my SO's family's house in the mountains of Morocco. i was totally sick with a stomachache and couldn't eat anything. It was during Eid al Kebir, and his sister-in-law made a great big thing of couscous. i just couldn't eat it... i couldn't eat anything.
Instead of explaining the situation, he said: "She doesn't eat couscous." And the poor woman looked at me like i had insulted her and her cooking.
Then i had to explain in my broken Arabic that i was sick, and no one believed me because of what he had already said. it was very frustrating, even though Habibi later explained why.... in any event, i still don't know what's wrong with telling the truth.
Instead of explaining the situation, he said: "She doesn't eat couscous." And the poor woman looked at me like i had insulted her and her cooking.
Then i had to explain in my broken Arabic that i was sick, and no one believed me because of what he had already said. it was very frustrating, even though Habibi later explained why.... in any event, i still don't know what's wrong with telling the truth.
Yes, lies are not good....It is better they know the truth....
The bedridden thing doesnt work, they will just go into your room to see you and make sure you are ok. If he thought you didnt want to be disturbed thats probebly why he told a while lie.
Yes, I know you are right....Especially with the husband being a doctor.
But with telling the relatives "I was in India" because we "now have a joint sponsor" made me a little angry. It makes me sound lazy and like I am just traveling around the world having an extended vacation. When really it's been tough and I've been sick.
QUOTE(Caladan @ Feb 21 2008, 05:05 PM)
QUOTE(AlHayatZween @ Feb 21 2008, 03:50 PM)
Once i was at my SO's family's house in the mountains of Morocco. i was totally sick with a stomachache and couldn't eat anything. It was during Eid al Kebir, and his sister-in-law made a great big thing of couscous. i just couldn't eat it... i couldn't eat anything.
Instead of explaining the situation, he said: "She doesn't eat couscous." And the poor woman looked at me like i had insulted her and her cooking.
Then i had to explain in my broken Arabic that i was sick, and no one believed me because of what he had already said. it was very frustrating, even though Habibi later explained why.... in any event, i still don't know what's wrong with telling the truth.
Instead of explaining the situation, he said: "She doesn't eat couscous." And the poor woman looked at me like i had insulted her and her cooking.
Then i had to explain in my broken Arabic that i was sick, and no one believed me because of what he had already said. it was very frustrating, even though Habibi later explained why.... in any event, i still don't know what's wrong with telling the truth.
Think of an analogous social situation here. It's a little harder because we don't have anything directly analogous to that form of hospitality. Maybe a company party or a work environment where you have to handle something with tact in order to avoid giving offense and to be considered a class act.
Here, saying 'I'm not feeling well, I'll pass on the appetizers' isn't taken as an insult to a hostess. But 'I won't come to your party because your cousin gets drunk and gropes me' wouldn't be a tactful way to handle it, but saying "I'm not feeling well, I'll have to decline" wouldn't offend anyone. It's a similar thing, it's just what counts as ritual politeness varies.
ya nutty i know what u mean about the cultural differences....i had to go to peoples houses, sit and smile, etc, the 2nd time i visited my husband its not just iran is all over mid east and asia
they are more for "showy" socialness - it got on my nerves as i didnt understand at the time what is was about and yes i was showcased as well, and im not even of other nationality than my husband...just that foreignness is intriguing
they get offended if you dont be a good host all the time and then they criticize if you cant cook, dont come out always, etc
and ya your husband really wasnt trying to piss you off he thought it would be the best way to avoid that whole social problem cause he knows if he doesnt say that they will find some way to criticize and keep saying that bad stuff even after ur gone back to US
but you know what in the end, its our husbands we love
and when they come here, they will be pissed about many things in this culture....so we make the sacrifice because we ask them to make it as well
but ya nutty pls dont focus on 3rd persons, really if i listend to all the crap from outsiders, mother in law (shes very wonderful, but has negative blurt-outs one or two instances) so its kinda like that...we either care or dont and because we sincerely love our husbands let us not get angry at them for handling 3rd persons not so perfectly - hey you guys should get some alone time really - get away from other people - ur not totally feeling best of health - go get some alone time please or else it will be spent fighting and being angry when you spent thousands of dollars and risked ur health for this
my love and prayers go to you
Tammy
they are more for "showy" socialness - it got on my nerves as i didnt understand at the time what is was about and yes i was showcased as well, and im not even of other nationality than my husband...just that foreignness is intriguing
they get offended if you dont be a good host all the time and then they criticize if you cant cook, dont come out always, etc
and ya your husband really wasnt trying to piss you off he thought it would be the best way to avoid that whole social problem cause he knows if he doesnt say that they will find some way to criticize and keep saying that bad stuff even after ur gone back to US
but you know what in the end, its our husbands we love
and when they come here, they will be pissed about many things in this culture....so we make the sacrifice because we ask them to make it as well
but ya nutty pls dont focus on 3rd persons, really if i listend to all the crap from outsiders, mother in law (shes very wonderful, but has negative blurt-outs one or two instances) so its kinda like that...we either care or dont and because we sincerely love our husbands let us not get angry at them for handling 3rd persons not so perfectly - hey you guys should get some alone time really - get away from other people - ur not totally feeling best of health - go get some alone time please or else it will be spent fighting and being angry when you spent thousands of dollars and risked ur health for this
my love and prayers go to you
Tammy
If they are muslim..it is a muslims duty to visit the sick. To not visit is neglecting the religion. They would have insisted on a visit since it is not just their culture but expected of them as a good muslim. Family can not tell them not to visit...its like saying, dont pray or to disobey Allah. Add to that the family closeness and the inclination to take care of one another and you have an insistant family on your hands. While I dont think lying to get out of it is right...it would be inconsiderate to ask them not to visit.
If they are muslim..it is a muslims duty to visit the sick. To not visit is neglecting the religion. They would have insisted on a visit since it is not just their culture but expected of them as a good muslim. Family can not tell them not to visit...its like saying, dont pray or to disobey Allah. Add to that the family closeness and the inclination to take care of one another and you have an insistant family on your hands. While I dont think lying to get out of it is right...it would be inconsiderate to ask them not to visit.
If they are muslim..it is a muslims duty to visit the sick. To not visit is neglecting the religion. They would have insisted on a visit since it is not just their culture but expected of them as a good muslim. Family can not tell them not to visit...its like saying, dont pray or to disobey Allah. Add to that the family closeness and the inclination to take care of one another and you have an insistant family on your hands. While I dont think lying to get out of it is right...it would be inconsiderate to ask them not to visit.
yes what amrssnowangel said is correct, it is the duty and disobeying the duty is both sinful on the visitor and the one being visited - it was hard for me to understand that as well
but slowly the realization comes that people are not only trying to be nice and sometimes causing the opposite affect, but they are doing it to save themselves from their own sin of not fulfilling the duty that is, despite how bad you feel
this two pronged situation is hard to deal with when you are just not feeling good or sick
Best wishes Nutty
and do not think so much about others - again this is between you and your husband, he should have consulted you and not put words in your mouth
but we see people do things for their own sake as well and not only for the pure sake of the subject at hand
Tammy
but slowly the realization comes that people are not only trying to be nice and sometimes causing the opposite affect, but they are doing it to save themselves from their own sin of not fulfilling the duty that is, despite how bad you feel
this two pronged situation is hard to deal with when you are just not feeling good or sick
Best wishes Nutty
and do not think so much about others - again this is between you and your husband, he should have consulted you and not put words in your mouth
but we see people do things for their own sake as well and not only for the pure sake of the subject at hand
Tammy
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