I need to speak to someone who is either a UAE National (or knows a national ) that was given a K1 visa to marry a non Muslim.
Am being told that it isnt going to happen. Are lawyers that unscrupulous to have kept that information from me all this time ?
I realize it cant happen in Saudi Arabia.....but am talking bout United Arab Emirates.

The K1 visa is issued by the US consulate not the country where your fiance is from.

Who told you that your fiance will not be issued a visa? This would be the first time I am hearing this.

Ah.....was told since its against the law for a non Muslim to marry a Muslim woman that it would be against the law for the embassy there to issue a K1 visa for marriage here. I know it seems weird......but my fiancee told me her friend was saying that she would not be let out of the country on a K1 visa. She wants to talk to a UAE national that has received a K1 visa.

here is the uae k-1 stats. you'll have to see if the names on the far left are still on vj.

http://www.visajourney.com/timeline/k1list...7%2C28&cfl=

if the link does not work let me know and i'll get a shorter version of it.

I can see why you would be concerned.

If you can't get in touch with someone from VJ I would call the consulate and find out.

Good luck.

Hmmm that's a good question. In Egypt they won't marry a non-muslim male to a muslim woman so I guess it stands to figure there'd be some static between the Egyptian gov't and the US gov't in letting it happen. Not sure about the country you're going through but maybe it'd be the same since their laws are the same?

Thanks Charles,
I didnt have alot of time to figure out the timeline stuff before i started this topic.......I think my biggest prob isnt gonna be UAE or US immigration......my biggest prob is gonna be her friends tellin her she cant do this.

while her friends may mean well, odds are they haven't gone thru the k-1 process and are relaying word of mouth "barracks lawyer" information. you may be able to get an answer from a few of those individuals on the link i posted earlier, and you might also consider emailing the embassy in uae and asking for clarification on this too.

USA follows the legal standards of the country of origin.

If the marriage is illegal there, it's illegal here.

THe US government issues K1 visa's. And there are no restrictions listed for K1 which would deny you marrying a non-muslim.

I do not see how the United Arab Emirates can prevent you from receiving a US government issued visa.






Well, this should be directed to the US Embassy in Abu Dhabi.

yes....i know......but this was stressin her out very much......and thought i would ask here.......her and i both have called that embassy and cant get past the answering machine....but...we will keep trying....also wondering what will happen when her parents try to stop us at the airport.........ha......this is gonna turn into an " international incident " Anybody want to tag along ?

Have you tried e-mailing them?

Good luck to you.

here it is.
dubaivisaenquiry@state.gov

Ok....thank you......will send something right now.....just didnt have a chance yet to look for the mailing address.....thank you kind people for your help and encouragement !

Denny's fiancee has good cause for concern. He is a non-Muslim man attempting to sponsor a K1 visa for a Muslim woman to the US for marriage. There is no way he could marry in her country without his conversion to Islam, and they would also need the consent of her male guardian, unless she appealed to the Sharia court for an exception. The UAE is a tribal Muslim country, and its interpretation of the Sharia, which is incorporated into law, does not allow Muslim women to marry non-Muslim men, requires consent of a male guardian for an unwed Muslima to marry. Travel overseas requires the permission of a male guardian. All are facts the US State Dept is not unaware of, and, no doubt, takes into consideration as a matter of diplomacy:

There is broad legal and societal discrimination against women. Islamic law governs the personal status of women, but civil law governs their activities in the civic and commercial sphere. Muslim women are forbidden to marry non-Muslims (see section 1.f.). Custom dictates that a husband can bar his wife, minor children, and adult unmarried daughters from leaving the country. All male citizens can pass citizenship to their children at birth, whereas female citizens married to noncitizens do not automatically pass citizenship to their children (see section 2.d.). The government was generally not effective in enforcing women's rights and protecting women from abuse. There is no data regarding the number of abusers who were prosecuted, convicted, or punished.

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2006/78865.htm

Law of Personal Status

The personal status of women in the UAE is determined by Islamic law. The UAE’s interpretation of Islam prohibits Muslim women from marrying non-Muslim men. Muslim men are allowed to marry non-Muslim women. In 1998, 28 percent of marriages in the UAE were between Muslim men and foreign women. Muslim women are prohibited from leaving the country without permission from a male guardian.

http://gender.pogar.org/countries/country.asp?cid=21

Diplomacy is not a small matter in granting visas to foreign nationals in ways that violate the laws of the country that the embassy serves. Nor are the ramifications of what benefits the female Muslim citizen would give up by marrying out. As it is, UAE women who marry out lose many of the citizenship rights, and are not allowed to sponsor their husbands or children for citizenship, whereas a male Emirati can.

Countries, not even the US, hands out visas without regard to the laws of the country they are in. They are there as guests and international incidents are to be avoided.

Its almost 2 years to the day that we started chattin...have visited Dubai twice......and now this ? I feel sick !

Is there any UAE nationals that have done a K1 visa without parental support ?

you don't have the support of her parents?

no... i dont.......they do not know.....and she told me that if they found out, I would never hear from her again !

Against ALL of my better judgement I'm gonna be a buddinski here and tell you that marrying ANY woman, be them Christian, Muslim, Jewish, WHATEVER, without her parent's consent means you are embarking on an EXTREMELY hard journey......especially if she is young which I think is the case from what you've said so far. If she's older then maybe you'll have a chance but a woman's bond especially with her mother is extremely hard to break. Especially when she starts to have children.


Ok I'll shut up now. I'm riled up about something else today and don't wanna take it out on you. Good luck!

Sorry to continue with the negativity, but are there not some situations where the woman might be in physical danger for pursuing this kind of relationship against the wishes of her parents? This situation appears very bleak to me.

I think what you are trying to do is going to be VERY difficult. Unless you convert to Islam and get her parents consent to marry and travel, then I'm afraid your chances of making this work are slim. In order for you to do the K-1 you would have to have some kind of contract signed in a mosque (Nikka?) to prove to the embassy that you are engaged.

Also its highly likely that her parents are the keepers or her passport if she even has one, I don't know how she plans on getting that from them.

I hate to say this because its all wrong, but the only way I see this working is if you convert to Islam and come clean wiht her parents and gain their acceptance. These are completely wrong reasons for conveting but I think most Muslim counties don't allow a muslim woman to marry a non-muslim man. The short version of the belief behind this is that the father controls what religion the children will be. If the father is christian, it is believed the children will be too. This is why its much easier for the muslim man to marry a non-muslim woman.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I think you should talk to you fiance and come up with a different plan.

Its ok.....sigh.....that was a big problem for us months ago.....and we finally had it worked out......and she was ready to come here and get married.....despite the age difference ( 27 yrs ) and the homesickness.....and it helped that her mother was just bein plain nasty to her..........and i realized the risk....but love makes ya crazy......but hey....it seems the UAE government is looking out for us and keeping us from makin a mistake !
My thoughts were......even if she lived down the street.....was white and same age......still wouldnt guarantee it would work.....dont 2 out of 3 marriages fail anyway ?
12 million illegals in this country.....but they dont seem to want to let in a beautiful, intelligent fun loving arab. USCIS be not proud !

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I think you should talk to you fiance and come up with a different plan.
[/quote]


Different plan ? Please tell me what that might be !!! I would love to convert to Islam .....I would love to learn Arabic and speak it fluently....I would love to move to Dubai......she told me none of those things would matter to them.........they want her to marry a rich arab....bottom line !! Just tell me how to get her out of the UAE.....thats all we want to know.....thats all we care bout !..
ha.......k......am gettin ticked now.......I cant believe that no lawyer has not told us that we cant do this.....
Oh.....and by the way.....she DOES have her passport......and she snuck into her mom's bedroom to get her birth certificate.....she wants to do this.....she is scared.....but she loves me and wants to be with me......why cant they just let us alone......for goodness sakes she is 21.

I feel your frustration but this has nothing to do with USCIS. I think it more has to do with the laws of the UAE. JP has it exactly right in the obstacles you would face.

Well unless you have a laywer that is familiar with Sharia law than I am not surprised, your problem is not with the US it is with the UAE. Secondly, if she believes her parents will flat out not accept it then she is probebly right. I don't know of anyway you can smuggle her out of the UAE. Like I said earlier, the only other plan that comes to my mind is for you to convert to Islam and GAIN their acceptance. Otherwise I don't really see how this will work.

Since you can't marry her then you have no way to legally get her out of there. The only way for her to leave is with the consent of her father or brother. I'm really sorry this is happening to you but wasn't she aware of the laws in her country? Even with a K-1 you will have to prove that you went to a mosque and got the Nikkah which they will not give you without the consent of her father.

Why don't you talk to her some more? I know she thinks its a hopeless case, most of us arab girls always think our parents won't accept anything but sometimes they will. But whatever you do, please don't try getting her out of there illegally, you will put her life and your life in great danger.

sigh....if this is all true.......then no.....we are done.....our dreams are shattered.....
her friend told her this stuff last week and she was heart broken till i cheered her up and showed her what i thought was evidence to the contrary. All I did was prolong the inevitable.......my only hope is to talk to the UAE embassy in Washington DC again......
I asked her to talk to her mother bout coming here on a student visa......and it took her weeks for her to get the courage up to even say anything. She is terrified of her parents....I helped her get a postal box when I was there in Oct 2007.......she has yet to pick up mail i sent back in January and her Valentine's card is still sittin there. Ha .....wish I had a tenth this much control over my child.......and trust me.....he would hate me alot less if i did !
LOL ~ I guess this is why no UAE nationals have contacted me yet....

get married in some other country..apply for a K3 visa...the interview wil be held in the country where you married......problem solved.

good-bye to narrow religious views, narrow parent views, and she can be an adult and make her own decisions....good luck.

Thank you....that looks like we are going to have to do that.....but there arent a whole lot of countries that it will work for and now am not even sure she can get out of the country to do that. A lawyer suggested that....but when i showed some interest in it.....he started to talk bout residency and one even started talking bout citizenship of that country....not to mention k3 involves more paperwork.

but yes....if i can get her out of UAE, I will try that......she wants to go to Lebanon.....anyone want to give me some advice on that country ?

no residency nor citizenship required....the paperwork is one additional form.

Why don't you talk to her some more? I know she thinks its a hopeless case, most of us arab girls always think our parents won't accept anything but sometimes they will. But whatever you do, please don't try getting her out of there illegally, you will put her life and your life in great danger.
[/quote]
When I discuss this.....she gets very sad and will just log off.....she says she will get slapped for even considering the subject !
Without her ....my life is pretty much over anyway...she pretty much feels the same way.........so what do we have to lose ? Hmm........didn't Romeo and Juliet figure out a way to be together against parents wishes ?

Well it seems like you think this isn't going to work from any angle and neither does she. Maybe you have nothing to lose but I think from what you are saying she is going to lose ALOT. If the situation is how you describe it, please think things through for her benefit.

Out of curiousity, do you send her money or help her?

My apologies, denny. Telling you about this was not the easiest thing for me to do, and nothing you wanted to hear in the first place, I'm sure, but it had to be done. You two have already crossed some risky territory, and you've had luck on your side - so far. Muslim women, no matter where they live, know of the prejudice against non-Muslim men. In the Muslim world, they are not free to involve themselves in interfaith relationships without consequences, so I will never understand why there are those who get deeply involved before being totally honest with themselves and the guy about what the obstacles are. Unfortunately, you are not the first man I have had to consul regarding this. I told you before, if she continues with you, the blowback on her can be extreme, and have legal ramifications. Best, in the long run, to let her go. Romeo and Juliet did not end happily.

If you love her, brother, don't let her go keep everything on the downlow. Love comes but once in this life and you will never forget it. Before you take my advice make sure she's ok having absolutely nothing to do with her parents if they dismiss her from the family. Make sure shes ready to give everything up for you like when you both have kids they wont have grandparents from her side of the family. If you talk to other women and she doesn't like it she has no where to go. You gotta alot of things to think through . UAE is free with their own citizens but with foreigners no wayyyy .God bless.

Im 20 and married (arab) , I still can't get permission to leave my house without consulting my dad and husband in another country! I'm in USA!!! Free Country. I've always been "scared" and kept my parents respect.

we have been chattin for 2 years now......we are past the homesickness and worrying bout what she is leaving behind.....she is ready to leave it all behind.....but she is afraid she cant get out of the country. That is my last obstacle......just let me get her away from her infernal parents and we will be fine.....I truly believe parents should be respected......and I would love to ask for their permission......but they treat her like crap .....so I have no problem taking her away from that. If they cant see what they have in their daughter, then they need to just let her go...why cant they do that ? They consider her a piece of property.....then let me buy her !!!!

Ah well....then this isnt gonna end happily either....because as long as she is willing..... I am going to keep trying to find a way to do this. She feels even more strongly bout this than i do......she is willing to die to make this happen.....she just isnt lookin forward to the beatings.
The wonderful embasssy there in response to my question of whether or not UAE nationals can get a k1 visa without parental permission....said this :
"Abu Dhabi, IV" <AbuDhabiIV@state.gov> wrote:

Sir

According to our visa processing system, it is not legal for us to promise anything in advance regarding the visa issuance/refusal.


Only at the time of final interview, the consular officer will make a decision.


Thanks for your inquiry

ha.........thanks immigration for your kind consideration in this matter ! They cant say.....well....no UAE nationals can get k1 visa without or parental permission...??? .or....some can...????.or.....yes depending on the case......or...something like......" every case is different, but lack of parental permission is not grounds for denial".....as my fiancee is fond of saying in moments of disgust and frustration ...... uff !

Last time i was there i gave her 500 dirhams (139 USD) and 200 USD for medical exam and interview and money for cell phone credits....and have sent her 40 USD thru the mail. But she does not like me giving her money. But yes ....I plan on helping her anyway I can......if we can move forward with this I plan on getting a private driver and taking her to the interview. We had it all worked out till her friend said we could have problems at the airport on the way out. The money I have given her pales in comparison to the money I have spent on 2 round trip plane tickets, hotel costs and private driver to pick her up when we meet. All told......close to 6000 USD.......life is good !

It bothers me that you're willing to accept that this will happen to her. If you truly love her I really think you should let it go for her own safety.

I'm with Bridget and Virtual Wife... let her go. Its likely only going to end up in complete disaster. I know it seems like you can't live without each other but time does heal wounds. Good luck to whatever you both decide!

How is it possible to be "beyond homesickness" when she hasn't yet left her country? My husband, a grown *man*, has moments of homesickness and he's been here nearly a year.

Realistically speaking...what happens if this marriage doesn't work out? She'll be in a strange country alone. She will not be able to fall back on her family and return to her country. I know you have strong feelings for her but like others have said, if you truly love her, let her go. From the sounds of it she's very young and naive. She has no idea what she's really getting herself into and quite frankly, neither do you.

Add to this that she is 21 years old and has, presumably, led a very sheltered life so far. She seems prepared to close a lot of doors. As you said, she is even prepared to risk her life. Actually, she may have already done so, secretly meeting an American Christian man 27 years her senior on multiple occasions without being married to him. If someone who knows her happened to see her at the embassy or consulate, what explanation would she give? DOS makes home visits on occasion. How would things play out if someone visited her home and asked her parents how they felt about her impending marriage? If she did receive a visa, she might have to wait through weeks or months of security checks first, and then receive a phone call. Would her situation allow her to receive that phone call out of the blue? Is she the only one who answers her phone?

The idea is appealing. You spirit her off to the interview. She comes out, visa in hand, and you head for the airport. But immigration is too unpredictable for that in most cases, even without the added difficulties you face. I do believe you love her and you are prepared to move heaven and earth to be together. You have said she is ready to die for you. Are you really ready to accept that kind of sacrifice?

All i meant bout the homesickness was the fact that she hesitated for months when I said i wanted to make this a long term relationship. Yes....she was very concerned bout coming to another country without friends or family......but the more we talked .....and the more she thought bout it....the more she realized she doesnt have that much where she is at. In fact...stating at one point that she has nothing there. Does it concern me. ? -- YES !.....I have struggled with it for many months....but silly me just cant let her go. I have talked to many lawyers on what our prospects are in UAE......I have sent mail to the consulate in Abu Dhabi.....I have called the UAE embassy in Washington DC.......YES !....there are concerns......BUT I AM DOING MY HOMEWORK !!!! For starters....i dont think home visits happen in UAE.......if it happens to us....we are done..she has a cell phone....they can reach her there if they need to....i find it hard to believe they would contact her....because she has tried on several occasions to contact THEM......to no avail......as far as waiting for visa after interview...if it takes more than a few days......we are done.....unless i can get her to another country...have been told by many that UAE issues within 2 days........There is no gurantee on any relationship .....just because i marry someone from my own race near my own age doesnt guarantee it will work.......is there better chances..?...yes...i understand there is...but still no guarantee....Her and I have discussed it several times. She is 21 and far more mature than women twice her age...........and I feel that she would be twice as loyal........and if I only have a few years with her ......it will be the most wonderful few years of my life............ I think our only problem is we tend to listen too much to the naysayers .....we need to follow our hearts.......and i think we will do just that......and with that ....I thank you all for your input and concerns......but unless you know of or are a female UAE national........dont want to hear bout it .....I told her just last night i wanted to link this forum to her.....but I told her there are alot of naysayers in here and parts of it are just negative.......
I cant believe ya dont think she is just after money or a green card....and how do i know ?? .....cause.....if that is what she wanted .......she would have been gone along time ago....cause i would have given her thousands.....so enough with the negativity!!!!!!
WE DONT NEED THAT.......what we need is a plan.....TO GET HER OUT ! and that is what i plan to do .....and i will keep trying to do that till she says no...till she can honestly tell me this is not what she wants . Is it risky for me ? ya...maybe it is....but she is leaving her country to be with me.....so for that....i will take on a little risk myself when she gets here.......and thank God above for the gift He has given me......and thank the local government here for allowing me a concealed carry license.

Have you two met in person yet?

Best wishes for a long and happy life together.

Love conquers all. Especially in MENA.

*sigh*

met her in June on several occasions and I went back to see her in October 2007.....on several occasions.............I had more problems at Detroit airport than i had in Dubai........I love Dubai and if she would let me ....I would move there...but......she said it wouldnt work there. This is for real.....and she is looking forward to another visit when we figure out how to proceed........with all this negativity, its all on hold right now.

Well....she HAS discussed that with me and doesnt think it will go that far.......she just doesnt want to get caught by family THERE ! The only reason i say stuff like that is the fact she has told me several times she doesnt think she can live without me.....I have not accepted that she could be hunted down and killed......if that were the case, I WOULD be able to let her go.....if I am wrong....I just hope immigration makes it as difficult for anyone coming to get her as they have made it for us to be together.

Well....she HAS discussed that with me and doesnt think it will go that far.......she just doesnt want to get caught by family THERE ! The only reason i say stuff like that is the fact she has told me several times she doesnt think she can live without me.....I have not accepted that she could be hunted down and killed......if that were the case, I WOULD be able to let her go.....if I am wrong....I just hope immigration makes it as difficult for anyone coming to get her as they have made it for us to be together.