Hi All!

My wife and I are considering buying an apartment or house in Volgograd, Russia. Yes, she'll be joining me in our home in Texas, but we'll be visiting often enough that buying something while she's still there makes a LOT of sense.

I'm curious if anyone is in Volgograd, or has current knowledge about real estate prices there. For example, how much can we expect to pay for a small house (1 bedroom), or a room in an apartment, or an apartment? My wife said her parents bought their current apartment for about $1 million rubles (approx $35,000). It's fairly close to the center of the city (maybe 5km) and pretty nice condition, with 2 bedrooms. Their address is: ul. Dvinskaya 20. Something not to far from her parent's apartment is what we're interesting in finding.

We're not looking for the most expensive place, just some place reasonable for her to stay now, and for us to use when we visit. And I've got a friend at work who would probably be interested in using it as well - and renting it from us when he and his wife go to visit.

Anyone have any ballpark figures? Or know of any web sites that might have info and/or listings?

thanks much!

Michael

Just some general advice:
Russian law forbids foreigners from buying land. You can buy the property but not the land underneath it. So your wife will be probably be the property owner.
With that in mind I hope you have an excellent relationship, as for many second generation Russians it is near impossible to buy a flat of there own at the current prices in comparison to average salaries. Many are forced to live with their parents. I hope there is no potential for a scam.
Recently the trend in Russia is that apartments go up in price faster than actual houses.
As with everything else in Russia, be careful where you invest your money.

Austin Volgograd

I'm a russian girl and I live close to Volgograd. About one month ago I was checking newspaper with prices for apartments in Volgograd because me and my mother were thinking to probably move there. I was looking for 2 rooms apartment. I can tell you that prices were already much higher that your wife mentioned. Something not expensive was not less than 1.2 million rubles, but it was not the center and not that nice. Nicer flats were higher. I guess your wife's parents bought their flat some time ago. Here prices for real estate grow very fast. And dollar also is falling down now in Russia.

I am not sure if foreign citizens can buy a flat, I think Satellite is right - you may need to buy a flat on your wife's name. Think twice about it before you do it. Do you speak any russian? How strong is your relationship? Just be safe about it. Here people really live with their parens. I live with my mother for example. When my fiance comes here for a visit we just rent an apartment and it is nice. I think it is much cheaper to rent an apartment in Volgograd than in Moscow for example.

But if you still want to buy a flat have your wife to look at usual russian newspaper like VDV (Все Для Вас). She should know about it. Also this newspaper is online too. There are lots of offers with flats, prices etc.

We've looked into this as well (in Lipetsk). While in theory there is nothing to prevent an American from buying a flat in Russia, there are some drawbacks (mostly related to taxes). In practice, it will be much easier for your wife to do it. Cash kickbacks often speed things up. (as an aside, it is amazing what money will buy in Russia. Entrance to universities, grades, treatment by police... )

Like most things, it will help if you know someone (a local, wealthy, real estate person can probably help you out -- assuming you are friends with him). The apartment I rented in Lipetsk belonged to my wife's friend's father. Nice guy, gave us a good deal. Invited us to his dacha for christmas (very nice place). It is the same everywhere - people help out friends they like.

Having family to help you out taking care of the place will be useful as well. (if you won't be there very much).

There is a capital gains tax on real estate in Russia - this is different for Russians and foreigners. (my knowledge of this is old, things may have changed).

The economics of this only make sense if you plan on being there a few months every year, or if you can rent the place.

Thank you very much for your reply. Yes, it was quite some time ago that her parents bought the apartment. I know we cannot afford to buy an apartment, but she says she can buy a room in an apartment for less money. She thinks maybe 250,000 roubles. Or maybe a very cheap flat, 1 room, for maybe 300,000 roubles. Does this sound reasonable?

I speak and understand only a little Russian. I do not know enough to be conversational yet. But I am learning more each day, with my wife's help. My relationship is very strong with her. We really don't want her to stay with her parents. They are very confrontational and since we married, they don't want her to live with them any more. They tell her it's my responsibility. We cannot talk for 5 minutes without her parents yelling at her to get off the telephone! It's making us both crazy!!!

I wouldn't mind renting an apartment, but with the amount of time we plan to spend in Volgograd, we think it might be better to buy something. If we do buy something, we'll definitely buy it in her name.

Thanks for the info about the newspaper. That's the newspaper we've been looking at. I didn't even notice the internet address at the top of the pages!


If anyone has any more information about this tax, I'm definitely interested to know more! Thanks! We might consider renting it out, but that would complicate visiting. I'd hate to throw the tenants out whenever we wanted to go visit!

Thanks for the info. I'd be happy to hear from anyone else with any more info.

I wonder what would have happen if your wife married an average Russian man who like your wife is also unable to buy an apartment.
I would try to come to some understanding with her parents. They seem to have high expectations for American men. You should clue them in about what is going on around them in terms of newly wed Russian couples being forced to live with their parents because there is almost no conceivable way two people earning 6000 rubles or less a month can afford a 1 million ruble apartment.

Without a doubt, they would want her to move out. They are tired of their granddaughter when she cries. They want to live alone, quiet. My God! My stepdaughter is only 2 years old! Geez!

They wanted my wife to marry a Russian man - her EX! They like him. He has a good salary, and has his own apartment. blah blah blah... They want her and her child to stay in Russia. They don't want to "lose" their granddaughter.
Easier said than done!
Yes. They think all American men are rich beyond belief. They don't care that I love my wife and step-daughter. They don't care that I do and will always take care of them. They want to sell their current apartment and buy a new one. They were expecting my wife to help them buy a new apartment! And she won't even be there.

Ummm... Clue them in?! Yeah... Right! It's a nice gesture, but they're just downright EVIL! We're just biding our time, trying to hang in there, until my wife and step-daughter can come to America.

Of course. Compared to living in Volgograd, you probably are. Based on what you have said, I don't think there is any reason for you to buy anything in Russia. Why?

Your in-laws should understand that you aren't rich (mine do - they still like me). If they don't - oh well. You and your wife will learn to deal with it.

The truth - I spend time on this message board because I am able to learn from people about the immigration issues my wife and I are facing. I also have a place to share my advice. I hate hearing about money here. The only reason we need to mention it here is to get past the sponsorship crap. Otherwise, who cares.

Sorry to sound cruel here - but you don't need to put up with this. It is bullshit.

Her parents should be happy she is marrying someone she loves.

Austin Volgograd

I understand better now. And yes, it’s easy to say - try to have more understanding with parents. It’s very difficult to do it sometimes! Living in small flats here people, even relatives, can begin to hate each other. I saw it myself. And see now. My uncle for example lives in 3-rooms flat with all his family – his ex wife, his two sons and one son even brought his girlfriend there to live. Russian flats are usually very narrow. As a result my uncle and his elder son do not talk to each other at all already some years. They hate each other a lot. The ex wife of my uncle doesn’t like younger son and even doesn’t cook for him. And she is his mother! They more and more hate each other living in such limited place and no one wants to come to agreement. Crazy, huh? And it is not unusual situation here.

So I can understand your wife’s situation with her parents. Plus she now has an American husband. I don’t know why but here most of people really think that all Americans are rich. Like money grows on the trees there so you can go to your backyard in the morning and get as much as you want My fiance was shocked when he realized it. I am for example very silent here that I have an American fiance. Because if I say - people start to want money or gifts. As I understand so do your wife’s parents. That’s not good.

What about buying a flat or a room. I do not understand why you need in it since your wife will relocate to the US?? As I understand the only she needs now is the place to live for the time while she is waiting for the visa and where you can live together when you visit her. It can simply be done by renting a flat for some months.

You cannot buy even 1-room flat in Volgograd for 300.000 rubles. The cost is at least twice more. At least. What about buying just a room in the flat - you can find something for about 400.000 rubles. But FOR WHAT?? If you buy a room in the flat your wife will STILL live with other people in one flat. Where is the guarantee that she won’t be in worse situation than now with her parents? And when you come for a visit you really will be able to live in one flat with unknown people and to share kitchen and bathroom with them? For what to spend 400.000 rubles??

I don’t understand why you do not consider just renting a flat?? That is soooo much cheaper and easier if you rent it for some months.

If I would be on your place I would consider only renting a flat. In Volgograd cost for one-room flat for long renting is about $150-180 a month!!! 2 rooms – about $200- 250 a month. Most of flats have phone, refrigerator and necessary furniture. And if your wife even wants to buy a room in a flat with other people for $400.000… Hmmm, then why to buy such headache for $400.000 if she can simply rent a room like that for $50 or less a month? Especially she then will relocate to the US?

Just one good advice if you decide to rent a flat – tell your wife not to mention everywhere that she has American husband. She then will find much cheaper place to live.

In my opinion - better rent a flat for your wife to live now and save the money for your life together in US.

Sorry if I was a bit harsh in my post earlier. My wife read it though, and agreed with my opinion.

I concur with this - renting a flat is a good idea, and should be pretty cheap (a few hundred US/month tops).

Also - keep in mind, for many people money becomes psycological. My wife has more money now than she ever had in her life, yet feels poor if we can't afford a few hundred dollars for a dinner every night (we are still working kids in our 20s, after all). You do get used to how easy money is in the states pretty quickly.

US or Russia, in the end, having money is not the same as being happy. Most rich people I know are miserable - they have plenty of time to think about what is wrong in their lives. This is easy for us to say - we are not starving to death. This may be hard for your family there to grasp, but they probably will in time.

I agree. Only she's convinced that we're wasting money, throwing it away, if we rent. Because she thinks we can always sell and make a profit later.

Harsh? No. Honest? Yes.

I agree about being happy. I've never been rich, but I've been poor and happy!!

Everyone... Thanks for all the info & comments. I'm sure we'll end up only renting since I can't afford to buy anything now anyways. I think was only curious if it would be slightly realistic to even think about buying.

Does anyone know if it's possible for foreigners to own a business in Russia?

And if there is a business there.... would it be subject to paying off the cops, the mafia, the local politicians, and anyone else who wanted to get a piece of the action? This is assuming, of course, that it was actually owned by the USC, or even a joint ownership between the USC and RFC. I'm guessing that if it was owned by the RFC and the USC was just "behind the scenes" than it really wouldn't be that much different than the normal cops, mafia and local politicians getting their cut, albeit at a discounted rate.

Owning a business is a piece of cake. Why do you think business visas are so easy to get?

You will be paying off everyone. I'm not kidding about this. A big company can hire security or pull diplomatic strings. Criminals and cops go after the little guys.

It won't make a difference who owns it. If you have offices, someone will find you.

If you are looking at starting a business, having good contacts with

1) local criminals
2) FSB
3) other businesses

will be the best path to success.

That being said, what type of business are you looking at?

Just tossing around the idea of maybe someday moving to Russia and opening an American restaurant. Kind of a sports bar type thing that caters to foreigners and Russians who need a little exta saturated fat in their diet. Think Hooters, but with hot girls!

Maybe a club in the basement that opens up as the restaurant winds down. (Propaganda Club, anyone?) Although, the kitchen would stay open for the late night crowd and the girls would go from serving food to serving drinks and dancing on the bar.

I'm hoping my pay offs to the local bosses and cops will be made in pasta and "VIP" treatment...

ah... dreams!

Friends of mine have done this in Western European countires. Much easier there, with banks and police and all.

In Russia, you have a few challenges. Bank financing will be tough, so your investment will be bigger (though costs probably lower outside of Moscow). Police may cause trouble too - be nice to them (like everywhere).

Don't know what to tell you about the criminals. If you have enough friends in high places, they shouldn't be a problem. This probably depends upon where you are doing this...

I would think in a small city you could do this with 100-200K without too much trouble. Not sure that you would get rich doing it, though.

What are you going to name the place? (We have plenty of such places here - Hooters and Wing House both started in Tampa...) I think some 3 mile island wings sound good right about now

We would probably try in Vladivostok. Lots of foreigners, and not a lot of fat food. (Plenty of hot girls, but that's everywhere in Russia, right?)

I've been tossing around a few names, maybe something Italian sounding (all mobsters wanna go somewhere that makes them feel like the Godfather) but we'lll probably go with something like "The Fat American."

Who knows.... it's just a dream.

Austin_Volgograd, why don't you consider buying a flat/appartment as an investment?
My own appartment in Tver' costs about 50 percent more now than it costed 3 years ago. Meanwhile, you and your wife can live there, avoiding problems with her relatives.

Still, be aware that it could be difficult to bring money back to US when you sell that property. (It would be easier for your wife than for you to do that, I guess)

I am curious how much a modest flat/apartment might cost in Volgograd? I'm not rich (or comfortable) by any stretch of the imagination.

My wife said her parents paid about 1-million roubles for their apartment. (They had an apartment that her grandparents left them. They sold that and purchased their current one. And apparently, apartments cost more now. Maybe 20 to 30 percent more (or maybe about 45 to 50-thousand US dollars). There's absolutely no way I could gather that much cash. And I'm sure no bank in the US would lend me money to buy property in another country, especially when I have a big mortgage here!

I doubt buying a flat/apartment is an option for us. But thanks for the suggestion.

I don't know if it helps. And I am not familiar with geography of Volgograd
Just looked in the internet how much an apartment in Volgograd may cost. I found a one-room apartment starting at 690,000 rubles OBO, 2 room apartment starting at 880,000 rub OBO.
http://www.cn-avega.ru/prod-kv2.shtml

Thank you very much for the info. I wish I had the cash to buy something like this. My limit is about 250,000 rouble cash. Signature loans just aren't possible for me to buy foreign real estate.

Hell, it's almost cheaper to buy property there than to rent from one of those "foreigner" sites!

Update!

My wife came to the USofA November 1, 2006. I filed for divorce November 15, 2006 after she hit me (yes, domestic abuse). I should have filed charges! Stupid me. We reconciled a short time - long enough for her to get her 2-year green card, at which time her attitude totally changed. She was setting me up for a fall! Well, it's Christmas eve, and she's in Russia - vacationing - to return sometime in January to try and milk me for more money. She still doesn't understand that Texas is NOT an alimony state, and I'm not offering to just give her tons of money after she bankrupt me. Yes, bankrupt! She hid money from me here and in Russia. She even propositioned me to delay the divorce so she could get her conditions removed from her green card!!! Talk about nightmares! Well, I'm hoping to get all this over next month and try and salvage my life. It doesn't look good.

Good luck to all of you Visa Journeyers!

Dude,

I am SO sorry this happened to you. I don't know what, but if I can be of any help to you in any way, please let me know. Other than that, I really don't know what to say. I wish you all the best, and I know you'll get through this scarred and wiser, but hopefully no less faithful. The right one is out there for you!

Z

Thanks!

I can only hope that SHE gets through this a little wiser. I'm her 3rd husband (1st USC husband) and it seems she doesn't understand love and compassion. I gave her everything I had! My heart, my home, my life... And all she did was toss it in the toilet.

I hate that I fell for her manipulative ways. I am glad I got to be a positive influence in her daughter's life. I love that child more than life itself. Hell, she's the only reason I reconciled with the wife in December last year!

Scarred? Yes. Wiser? Hell yes! Faithful? I always have been 100% faithful and always will be. That's what's in my heart. I just wish she had been half as faithful as I've been. And honest, too. She pretty much lied to me and set me up from the day I met her. It's amazing what clarity I have in hindsight!

I'd still love to go back to Russia again. Dunno if I'd be interested in going through this visa stuff again... But maybe just to visit the few friends I have there now.

:sigh:

Sorry to hear about your predicament but here are some general issues you should keep in mind.
1. She has a valid CR1 visa good for two years which she can use to enter the US at any time regardless of your marriage status.
2. Because you guys married in good faith, she can divorce and marry another American and still remove her conditions. Disproving good faith is difficult.
3. Texas is a community property state like California.
4. She can get an attorney and his bills can be used to put a lien on your property.
5. Bankruptcy does not relieve you of any spousal support / divorce division of property debt.
6. You are not alone in the VJ Russian forum to be taken for a ride.
7. I hope you didn't buy any property in Russia which is under her name! If so this lady is really good.
8. Happy Holidays and good luck in the future.

1. I know that. Thanks for reminding me.
2. I married in good faith. She married for green card and money. She doesn't even have to marry another American. She can file a waiver to remove her conditions. Just harder.
3. Fortunately, there's not much community property. A child's bedroom furniture set and what little retirement I've accrued while married. Fortunately, not much!
4. She has an attorney, and she's already paid him with cash that she hid from me during our marriage. I know I'll be forced to "repay" her for this. I HATE paying lawyers TWICE!
5. Are you a lawyer in Texas? Fortunately, the divorce will be final quite quickly after the bankruptcy. No more spousal support! Division of property debt? Only the house if I am forced to let them foreclose. There is no other.
6. I know I'm not alone. And I know I'm not the last one. I wish I was... but I'm sure other nice folks will get screwed, too.
7. No. She wanted to, but I just don't (never did and never will) have that kind of "spare cash" just laying around! She TRIED... REALLY HARD to buy property. It was the topic of debate nearly every time I talked to her.
8. Thanks! You, too!

No I am not a lawyer from Texas, the information below is just my common knowledge and lay person opinion.
The bankruptcy code is designed to function the same in every jurisdiction.
Therefore pursuant to 11 U.S.C. 523 (a)(5) and 523 (a)(18)):
Alimony and child support payments (court-ordered) are not dischargeable; Divorce and property settlements are not dischargeable unless the other party agrees to it.
But your house should be fine, because the bankruptcy code allows you to use their or your states exemptions. Texas and Florida provided you meet certain requirements will allow you to exempt the value of your homestead instead of the measly $18,000 something the rest of the country gets which is a joke if your equity is huge like in a California home.

Wow, your story should be used as a precaution to anyone looking to bring a wife to America. Although most end up happily married, unfortunately it is not that uncommon of a story. I brought a woman from Ukraine to America, but luckily for me she wasn't smart enough to hide her true self. It was quite apparent from the early days that she had only planned to get here for herself and her son. I was lucky and really dodged a bullet on that one. Because we never married she did return without any green card. I see she is back on the foreign wives circuit looking better than when she arrive to me. I feel sorry for the next guy she suckers.

At least I was lucky to discover the truth and not go through with the marriage. I am now very happily married to a wonderful woman from Kyiv, Ukraine. Next time maybe you will try Ukraine just as a different way to go. At least you don't need to jump through the visa hoops for Ukraine.

Best of luck with the settling of your divorce. The best advice is to distance yourself from her and keep it that way. Then give yourself time to heal before searching again. There are some very nice women in Russia and Ukraine that are just looking for a nice, loyal and hardworking husband. These women will keep you happy the rest of your life. Hang in there, you will get through this.

Ah... I understand. Not dischargeable. But it is counted toward financial obligations. As for the house, I still worry because her name's on the title. Did that to help with the AOS interview. Only chance of me keeping it is to get her to sign it back to me. Otherwise, $2000 in equity doesn't save the house.

I will get though this. I've got great family and great friends. Thanks!

As for trying Ukraine, I'd do it for the sake of visiting another country, not because of the visa hoops for Russia. I've gotten VERY good at handling all that stuff! I'd still love to go back to Russia and visit. I actually MISS the place quite a bit. I've spent at total of about 10 or 11 weeks there, and enjoyed it quite a bit... even in -25deg snow and ice.

So I take it the house was recently purchased that it has so little equity or you took a lot out during a refinance? Actually in a community property state two good things happen. (1) A bankruptcy by one spouse drags the community property share of any asset into the bankruptcy estate without their consent. (2) She would only be entitled to her share of the equity that occurred during the marriage whether you put her name on title or not during the marriage. And only payments made towards the principal would count, not say insurance or interest. But if the house went up in value in excess of the purchase price that would of course be split which is the usual case. But since you are talking about a possible foreclosure, which usually leads to a price below market, she might get nothing as your creditors would take everything.

I had a similar situation in my first marriage. We had lived in our new house for less than a year before we decided to get divorced. I would have liked for her to keep the house but she couldn't afford the house payment by herself. If we sold the house we probably would have wound up owing money at closing. I decided to buy out her share of the equity in the house by using money from my 401(K) account. I was going to have to give her some money from my 401(K) account anyway so I just increased the amount to be distributed to cover her share of the equity in the house. The portion of the distribution from the 401(K) attributable to her equity in the house was grossed up to cover any income taxes she would pay on it if she decided not to roll it over into another 401(K) account. You should consider this if you want to keep your house but not incur anymore debt in buying out your wife's share of the equity in the house.

Regarding the possible foreclosure on your home, there might be a small silver lining. A new law just put into effect will lessen the tax consequences to you if this was your primary residence. In the past, if the home was foreclosed and later sold for less than your mortgage, the lender would send you a 1099 reflecting your income for the difference. It was really a sad situation but forgiveness of debt does create income. The worse part is what happens to your credit rating. But that is still better than trying to be married to this woman.

Sorry you got taken for a ride, Austin. Really I am. Good luck to you in the future.

This is definitly a cautionary tale that everyone lurking here considering a 'MOB' should think about! If a woman is begging for you to buy property in her name... you might want to put up a red flag.

I often time read these type of threads which I suspect something might be up..... but I usually keep my mouth shut unless the question pertains to "am I being had?"


I admire this guy for coming back and giving the "rest of the story"... or at least as much as he did.

I wish the guy well.



Danno

Guys, when you see red flags on here or other things that are "scammer" type indicators, don't hold back.

Sometimes we need an outside eye looking in. I know none of us want to be that guy that's always pointing the finger and saying "your fiancee's a scammer" but there are some pretty obvious things going on and many of us have been on this site (and other sites) for long enough that we've seen or heard just about every scam. Between all of us on here, we have years of knowledge and experience and sometimes saying "hey dude, that doesn't sound right" isn't being rude or out of place. Sometimes that's exactly what someone needs.

Constructive criticism. It's not a bad thing, and if someone can't take it, what's that really saying about their relationship?