Dear Jpkeswim,

I've just heard the news, and I am completely gutted and my heart goes out to you.

I'm a little confused as to the reason why they denied you though?

Your fiancee had to file a waiver because of an overstay? is that right? What was all that about "brought over as a child and once he was 18 he could have gone back to the UK"?

also would it be possible to post your hardship letters on the forum?

It may help us all understand this mess, although I'll understand if you don't.

Like Tiff I am getting really worrried here aswell, thinking was our waiver and hardship applications good enough now?

This is not good, I am so so sorry for you both, no one deserves this

Nigel what the hell is going on with London?

OK Mary has very kindly gave me more information on your case, so Jpkeswim you don't need to answer.

I must admit I am totally dumbfounded as to the reasons why the guys at London (once again) said that a waiver could be filed, when perhaps your case application was unwaiverable??

Why put you through the hell of lifting your hopes to have then smashed?

I am so sorry guys

That is exactly it... lifting hopes to have them smashed. When we went to the interview in November we were already prepared for the denial. We only went for closure and had already made plans to move on. It was going to be difficult, the hardships were and still are real, but we were psyched up for it. Waiting in limbo for an addtional three months, unable to move forward with either plan... staying in this two room flat for example rather than moving into the bigger place we had lined up.... thats what really shattered us. We honestly were confident we would be approved because of things that were said at the interview. Maybe not 100% confident but we really were just waiting for the approval... waiting for that phone call... envisioning how excited and happy we would be. The denial letter left us numb and depressed. We grieved for the life we knew we couldnt have. I am still struggling with the realities of that. The fact that we will not be part of my kids and grandkids lives. The fact that now the government expects me to give up all the belongings that I have accumulated over a lifetime and leave the home I have lived in for 30 years. They don't care about any of our lives. They really don't.

We are getting ready to move ahead with plan B. We have no other choice. We will be together one way or another. Unless the UK won't let me in.. there is that worry.

mary

Paul...
The 601/212 waivers are very complex and such a grey area!
The problem i think is that the departments, DHS , Uscis, and the Embassy Dont work together very well indeed ...what im saying is that they both read the rules different...and this must be stoped straight away...
Take for instance the 2 failed waivers here....embassy says yes to a waiver to be filed and the DHS says no...
A waiver of 601 or a 212 is a risk of whatever..in fact its a bloody lottery!
In my head a k1 visa and to file a waiver aswell is risky as the us goverment dont see that there's great weight cas the 2 loving human beings is not as one ..meaning married...now if married this can/will help as you make them work to denie you...

Take me for instance....yes i was married, and what made it stronger is that ive got a 3yr old usc child..
I never took just them two reasons tho to be Approved cas ive seen people getting denied with the same as me...so what i did is..to use whatever i could to make our case stronger..ie the USc ill mother ect...
But after all that it still was not clear and green....its still a hit or miss thing!

Like i said many, many times do not take this waiver stuff like a walk in the park....all i can say to anybody when writing such hardship letter make them strong but to the point...
but even so this is not a green light for a Approvell....

The hole Immgration needs to be looked at very carefully indeed as there is no real boss running the show....

IM so sad what is gone on here this last few wks...and im going to look into this and writing to my wifes congressmen/women and the DHS on this matter....

THE SYSTEM NEED TO BE CHANGED ASAP....

Whatever the two members want to do i shall for one back them up and do what ever i can for them.....
if they want to fight well ill be there for them in whatever they want....

Best wishes .

God Bless..

Nigel/family xxx

i was told from our lawyer that the 601's are getting harder to approve because they are now actually making the final decisions in washington and not in London.....I will write more later

Please do. What in the world could that mean? Is that why they've upped the time frame? And why isn't it good enough for the people in London to approve anymore? How many people have to decide that your hardship is enough? This is all so ridiculous and really riles me up when I think about it!!! It seems that immigration is so broken that they just don't know where to focus and so make it difficult for the people who are actually jumping through the "required" hoops instead of those who are here illegally and completely mock any and all immigration laws! Unfair, I shout, Unfair!!!
Now, off I go to worry myself to death!
Tiff

I would certainly agree with Tiff and Nigel and say again that I think it is a system that is full of holes and is floored....

However, I'm not sure about the longer timeframe being a result of the decision going to Washington though.....

As we all know there are only a few people in this forum going through the 601/212 process in London. My lovely fiancee recently came up with the suggestion that if you're waiver is sucessful, you should hear something around the 10 week mark, however if it is denied you will probably have to wait until the 13+ week date until you get your letter.

It makes sense when looking at our colleagues timeframes in here, Misty and Nigel (approved around the 10 week mark?), Jpkesim and Mary (denied around the 13+ week mark)........ hmmmmm what does everyone think of that suggestion?

Certainly it would help if we had more cases to try and prove it (maybe I think a visit to immigrate2us.net is worth it).

best wishes to you all

Paul...you could be correct on that...but sometimes they do fall back there with staff holidays ect...
if i had a waiver and it was gone 10 wks then i be thinking positive and make some sort of excuse in my head for the delay...

As for the DHS in London not getting the power to Approve or denie waivers is very unlikely but i can see them passing such complex cases to WDC , but in WDC there up the walls with appeals from all around the the world so have they real time to look at London waivers too?

I did hear a few mths back that some Immgration laws was changeing and giving more power to congress so maybe just maybe this could be the start....
I sure hope not cas they havent a clue now nevemind messing about moving this and that around...!

Nigel...

Gosh, Paul, if that's true, won't we be freaking out if 10 weeks comes and goes without any word for us? I wish I knew what the exact procedure was. I'm just so curious about how they actually decide these things. Is it really so arbitrary?
So has anyone else started thinking about what their plan B will be? The hardships in all our letters are real, and I for one don't know what we'll do if we're not approved.
Tiff

don't forget that sometime in the past few weeks the timescale changed from 8-12 weeks to 12-15weeks. And that seems to be the case. maybe they had 3 people working on them and 1 left. plenty of pointless speculation to be had.

Plan B will probably involve valium or something similar. Our hardships are very real too. So much so that we agreed not to talk about a plan B as its difficult to get into a positive frame of mind about that while in limbo.

That's true. We're just expecting to wait the 12-15, hoping it will be 12 not 15! You guys are getting close... are you next in line to hear? I'm sorry. I didn't mean to make it sound like ours were the only real hardships, just that we all on this forum who have to submit these 601's have very real hardships. We're going through all this crap because it is the only option. We haven't really talked about a plan B either for the same reason. You should be hearing pretty soon, right? Hope it's good news. We could all use a little pick-me-up!
T

Hi,

I'm PaulC's waiting fiance. I've never vocalized my opinions on the VJ forum but I frequently read the posts. It is an impossible situation that we all find ourselves in. I just wanted to suggest that we are not completely loss for knowledge with regards to when we will hear back about our waivers.

As Paul and I resently found out, there is an official list provided by the embassy that tracks the status of waivers submitted after Feb 1st, 2006. I don't know of the exact address but Paul posted a link to the official website under the "waivers" section of the VJ forum -- it has been mentioned in the past. Anyways, the list doesn't specify the date in which each waiver began being processed but from deduction, we know that the first date must be Feb 1st or 2nd. Thus, we can actually track the progress and duration of how long we should expect to wait based on those cases set before us. For example, eight weeks from Feb 1st is March 29th; ten weeks is April 12th; and twelve weeks will be the 26th of April. I know that every case will probably be different but at least we will be able to aproximate. Another thing to keep in mind is that the list is only updated on a weekly basis so the outcomes might be a little off.

Maybe all cases will take 12-15 weeks approved or denied due to the recent system changes -- which is unfortunate for us. Still, keep your eye out for how long other cases take. It is possible that we will see the 8-10 week processing time that other VJ members have experienced or perhaps it will take the 12-15 regardless.

I know that there will always be a margin for error. I personally feel very nervous because nothing is for certain -- a frightening thought when the rest of your life depends on it. Still, little things like this realization helps. While I have personally gain a lot from the forum, it is important to remember that VJ is limited because it only reaches a very small population of people deeling with immigration isssues. I wish you all the best and hope you don't mind the imput. Check it out for youself... see how the majority of cases are processed and from this, get a general idea of how long you should expect to wait (I know I am).

Other than that, take care. I hate the waiting as much as the next but it reassuring to know that we are not alone.

Bests,

C

hey, Joey, nice to see Paul's other half -- and welcome! I thought that was very helpful as well. What I did find interesting is that when I first checked out the list, they had us listed and a date next to our number, but now there's no such date. Hmmmm... does that mean they don't want us to be able to track by week? I find that verrrrry interesting! It would be nice to think that we would hear even in ten weeks! Anyway, I think we should hear around the same time, as ours went into the system the day before yours. Good luck!
Tiff

I just wanted to add a little to what the others have said. I know the news about Mary & Tom and Jpkeswim and her fiancee has really hit the group of people here on the forum hard, but we really need to stop asking ourselves "What about plan B"??

I, like Tiff and I'm sure Wendibob, bailey and munchkins, am confident (not overly) that our waiver was a strong application, and it really doesn't help the next people in line waiting for news from London to hear this negative talk. We are already really worried out of our minds about the whole thing.

I agree with Nigel, yes the waivers could go either way... but lets face facts.......

the last two waivers that were denied in the group really had the odds stacked against them before they were even submitted. They were denied on what the US goverment consider legitimate grounds (although I strongly beleive they were not fair and just decisions).

and so i think I will only start to really worry if for instance Wendibob is denied, and god I hope she isn't!! I know she will be starting to get pretty nervous as the 10 week mark approaches..

I just wanted to say to everyone, please consider others waiting for their waivers to be approved before talking about "everyone's gonna fail going through London, they must have got really tough now". The fact remains that London still has a great pass rate, and is one of the best places to file in Europe.

Tiff, I was also suprised to see the dates taken off the pdf document....... what are they tring to acheive by doing that? hmmmmmmm although we will hopefully still be able to track the progress of applications before us by checking this document.

Ok everybody.... enough said

Agreed. But less of this "she" malarkey, y'hear? Or I'll have another CIMT to my name.


Rob

oopss sorry Rob! won't happen again

good job you "guys" can still have a joke throughtout this process.

We have not joined the waiver club yet, but there is a possibility, PaulC knows our story. At the end of the day when we finally get our interview (ways to go yet- still waiting for the NOA2 after 6 months ) if we find we do have to file the waiver I know that I will gain a lot of support on here, that is obvious.

I keep checking daily in the hope that very soon I will see you all approved.

Well we got our interview date for May 5th. That will be the big day to file our waiver. I do hope that everyone hears something positive soon. I'm going to try to keep a positive attitude and a stiff upper lip. I'm not giving up until we are shot down cold.

So what am I missing here? What is the new policy or procedure with the waiver? Are you talking about them being sent back to the us for approval? If so, does anyone have or seen anything in writing from the embassy? Just wondering.

Well I take off Wednesday for N. Ireland. I get to spend a short week with my fiance. First time for me, soooooo excited to be going.

Thanks,
Bailey

bailey....Congrats on your interveiw date now the home straight

Paul...well said and lets all be up- beat for others as they was for you.....lets all move Forward

Nigel

To you guys who got denied..I am very very sorry! I cant believe it! I want to wish you the best of luck in finding a way you two can be together in peace. I am very surprised London is denying all of a sudden it seems.

Our waiver took 3 weeks to decide but I believe that is because it came from Sweden and was filed 3 months before it was sent to London. Even so to make someone wait 12 weeks or more is just ludicrous.

Well I wasn't meaning to get everyone else down by saying I got denied. I just thought this board was to keep everyone informed on the progress of our cases. Sorry!

That's exactly what this site is for, jpkeswim. Nothing wrong at all with what you posted.

I was so sorry to hear of your denial.

I don't think anyone has said you should not have shared what happened. In fact I think the more details we do share the more it might help others. I was unable to write much at first because I was too numb, and, to be honest, I was spending alot of time in tears. Once I was able to write, I tried to share as much as I was able. I hope you can and will do the same.

Others have already said they will support us in whatever we have to do to sort out our lives. I know that when I go back to the states to begin the overwhelming task ahead, I plan to draw on this forum for support. No one else would be able to understand.

What has me down now are some of the statements Nigel said earlier. I really did think when we were allowed to file the petition that meant we would just wait out the processing time and then receive our approval. The people at the embassy did give us some advice on things to include in our letters but they never gave us the impression that our approval was a long shot. I think we were doomed from the start and should never have been allowed to file.

We signed papers today for a rental house in Gravesend. We don't feel excited about it though. We are still grieving for the life we wanted to have in Michigan and now we at the same time have to prepare to leave what has become home here in Brixton. There is no way we can afford a big enough flat or house in Brixton though. So now Tom will have a long commute to work and I will be cut off from the areas here that have become familiar. I had even made a friend here... another American woman who came here to marry her British fiance. Once we move to Gravesend I won't be able to see her very easily.

There were hardships we didn't even consider that are just now coming to light.

mary

Although I'm not officially a member of the UK waiver club because my petition was filed and reviewed in Canada, but I'm thinking I'm close enough. Seeing as Canada was considered a British Colony until 1982, so I'll have my 2 cents worth. I would like to say that Paul is correct is some ways, that each case is different and when we post about our experiences with the waiver process it's not to make people next in line worry about their waiver and whether the evidence that is contained in their waiver meets Consulate scrutiny. But it's really hard not to sit there and speculate on why this happened and why that happened. When you strip it down you realize you were denied and its heart breaking. So please allow those of us with denials the space to post our thoughts and concerns. It's not like it's done out of malice but out of a need to express our grief and get the much needed support from the people who understand and are going through a similar experience.

Those of you who are waiting good luck. Those of us who have been Denied, may we find peace in the next part of our journey.

Joanna

Misty B, sorry I didn't reply earlier. I post and read as the urge hits me. But to answer your question. Yes I only over stayed my visa by 191 days. I was working a valid non expired work visa at one hospital. Decided to switch jobs half way through the year to a new hospital and when I went to the border to renew my work visa because the hospital was sponsoring me for a work-related green card. CIS found out that I was working on this visa from the other hospital and I was told to leave. As I type this it sounds so stupid. OK, I made a mistake of not being informed on the work laws in the States. But it wasn't like I was working on an expired work visa. It wasn't as I was working under the table. I just made a mistake and seem to be paying for it big time. I'm sure others can view this as I broke the law and have to pay the consequences but on the larger scheme of things my mistake was only a small one. (In my eyes of course). I don't have any criminal charges here in Canada. No DWI, no fraud, no theft. My record in the States is clean too. Although I secretly feel that my conversations with my husband are being monitored by George W and my great dislike of George W was been noted and that's why I'm not allowed back in. I think I've got another 2 years before he's out of office. (Joking about the wiring tapping).

Officially my three year Ban is up in the summer of 2007 but my husband and I feel that due to my ongoing problems with the consulate/immigration process I won’t be able to get back in without my green card! The really crappy thing is we have a mortgage in the States (which my husband is covering) and now I've gone and bought a home here in Canada. I had to buy something out of nessatity because I've been living like a nomad. I thought I'd be home last year but to my surprise I'm still here and now partially homeless. My roommate is selling her place so I had to buy something here. Who knows how long I'll be in Canada for. Might as well make an investment out of it. I strongly believe that the person at the consulate reviewing a particular case has NO clue as to the real hardships faced by every one going through this process. My own personal feeling here of course, but sometimes I feel as though the consulate adjudicator just skims the waiver and if it suits their fancy they read deeper into what you've presented to them. I don't know many people who can afford to maintain two house holds, but that's what's happening to those of us in the waiver process. You keep hanging on to any hope that it will be all done soon, but it never really is. I still have some negative/bad feelings towards my adjudicator. I found her to be unfriendly and very rude. But I’m sure the next person who goes under her microscope might fair much better than me. Anyway that's enough of my rant for now.

Gosh, you guys, I didn't mean in any way, shape, or form that you shouldn't share what has happened with your waivers, either! There are very few who can understand the way our lives are on hold or can truly offer support that comes from this understanding, including our very own families! It's very emotional and difficult, and I know you guys understand what we're going through. That's why we all post here. It's only that when I hear from others that have been denied, it makes me afraid, and I can't help that. You all know how much is riding on this. It's just unsure until you hear from the consulate yes or no. So I agree with Joanna -- I can't help speculating on whether it will be good enough to pass whatever test it is at the consulate.

I hope things are getting better for you, Mary and Tom. I can't imagine trying to do what you're doing. I think you'll find out how truly strong you are through all of this. I guess we all just do the best we can, right? Well, I usually do.

Tiff




Sorry for double posting by me! I just got home after a very loooonggg drive home from Boulder, snowing all the way, and had to reply! Nothing like a spring storm in Colorado.

Bailey, just wanted to say congrats on your interview date! Is he going to have to stay in London or come down twice? I don't think there's any new policy with the waiver, just our wild speculation on here about why they have extended their processing times! Also just wanted to say have a fabulous time in Ireland. What a fun time. Has he always come over here to visit you? I've always been to England to visit Cas because he couldn't come over here because of his CIMT. So needless to say, family VERY anxious to meet this funny Englishman!
Good luck.
Tiff

Thanks for the wishes cmltdg,

Yeah he's always come over here. He didn't qualify for a passport because of his cimt but they did grant him a visitor visa. He applied in Belfast but they forward it to London and they reviewed it and approved him for the visa. I hope that's a good sign even though I know it has nothing to do with receiving an immigrate visa. I'm very excited to be going to meet his family for the first time. I want to meet the ones responsible for raising such a wonderful man. I'm sure you family will also be so excited to meet the man who has made you so very happy. They will be able to see the person who has brought so much happiness to you and why you are so willing to fight to be together.

Yes he has to fly over twice. I did email the embassy and request his interview the same day as his medical but after we thought about it , we decided it would be cutting it too close trying to make it to both in one day. I was surprised that the embassy seemed willing to work with us and I do think they were going to give us the date we requested but at the last minute we explained our concern and ask for May. His sister has decided to go with him and shop while he's at the embassy so at least he will have some company since I can't be there. That should calm his nerves down a bit. Well I hope it will.

Everyone please keep posting on here. That's what we are all here for. It hurts so bad when we hear of someone receiving bad news. Yes It makes us wonder and worry about our own fate but most of all it makes us realize just how much we need each other to get through this part of the process. If we didn't share and experience this together then where would any of us be? There isn't a lot of information on this part of the process. Heck a few months ago I was totally clueless. I know a little bit more than I did in the beginning but if we don't share our knowledge then how else would we find out?

Well sorry for going on. I usually don't say much on here but I had to put my two cents in. Let us all stick and work together, stay positive and try our best to help those who are having a hard time.


Oh and keep your fingers crossed for me............... I'm suppose to be at the airport on Wednesday morning for my flight and we are having a hugh snow storm tonight. Well for here it's hugh. They are saying up to 10 inches. I guess I'll have to get the dog sled out. lol
Have a good night all,
Baileyj

Godspeed, baileyj. Hope you're having the time of your life!

Yep Goodluck Bailey...

(gulp)
Ok, so this morning I got a letter from UCIS.



Am I correct in reading this as an approval?? I got no phone call, and there is no big rubber stamp mark with "APPROVED" on it. It's only short but I've stared at it for 2 hours now and the words keep changing!

Can anyone confirm they got something like this so I can wake the wife and scream at her?

OMG...looks like an approval to me! Congratulations!!!

it sounds like you should be expecting a call from the embassy... maybe they are behind in their calls. I think i remember Misty saying that hers had been granted several days before she actually received the call and it does appear that some of the procedures have changed so now they must be mailing the approvals as well as the denials.

what a relief!

mary

The word which sticks out here is GRANTED!
Yep it sounds positive to me
if i was you and could'nt wait give the Embassy a ring monday...Then this could put your mind at rest...
but it sounds Good to me...

HOLY COW!!! That sounds like an approval to me! Congratulations to you guys. It was so quiet in here all week, I was beginning to wonder. Yahoo!

We're taking it positively for sure!

I won't exhale fully until I get a genuine confirmation, so I'll be pestering them first thing monday morning to find out. Thanks so far!!

Congrats to you both Rob!!

You must have been sh#tting yourself when you saw that come through the letterbox mate!

I guess they do inform people by letter aswell eh? and true to form, Rob's approval was around the 10 week mark eh? mmmmmmmmmm maybe there is some truth to that theory?

Well Tiff, I don't know about you but that certainly makes me feel a lot better about our forthcoming "dates with destiny"!



Hey Rob, it certainly would help others if you could post your letter of hardship on here!

Anyword from WendyBob?

Nope! I phoned them today to ask what was what but couldn't get past the main board.
They said I should write or email the london consular so I promptly emailed.

Yes seeing the envelope was far from pleasant! I was half asleep after some late night programming and my brain wasn't at its best. I really didn't know whether to be happy or sad (and still not 100% sure).

Hey, maybe they're just changing the way they inform people so it's faster! That's really great if that's it. I'm sure you'll get a confirming call sometime this week.
Hey, we should have our own little pinned area with all approved HL letters as well as denied, kind of like the other forum. I like this forum (VJ) better, I think, and it would be really helpful going forward.

Paul, maybe your theory is right. I'm more than glad to be wrong on this particular point! Ten weeks would be great. That means we theoretically would only have seven weeks to wait instead of nine to 12!
Can't wait 'til he gets here! Hoping for the best.

Tiff

Wendybob.....if you can't get any joy from London Embassey, try and call the DOS (202)663-1225 THEN PRESS 1-1-0 for a opperator....they will have your info there..
hope that helps...

Nigel..

Tom & mary...

I thought ill post this as it might be usefull for you and anyone else..

A motion to re-open is when you have significant new hardship(s) to present. For example, someone got pregnant or was diagnosed with a debilitating disease.

A motion to reconsider is based primarily on the facts that were used in the original case. However, people often slip additional information in there that is related, but not the entire basis for reconsideration.

So, if you think that the facts in your original case were adequately evaluated and were appropriately denied, but that the new facts change the situation drastically - then you should file a motion to re-open.

If you feel that the original facts were not adequately considered, and the new information is primarily supporting of the hardships already mentioned in the first waiver, then a motion to reconsider would probably be more appropriate.


Hope that helps..

Nigel..

Cheers for that number. It's a useful one to have. After I got through I was told that me receiving a letter first wasn't the usual procedure and that I should wait a few days. heh, like I have a choice.

Probably neither applies in our case, Nigel. They did not consider our hardships at all. The denial letter said no purpose was to be gained by considering any hardship to the usa citizen as we were not eligible for a waiver. Our only hope would be to find more details pertaining to that charge but we have hit deadends everywhere

Tomorrow we are moving into a three bedroom house in Gravesend. Leaving the 2 room flat in Brixton that we have shared since November. We will most likely be without broadband service for a week or two so I won't be around for a while. On May 10th I will fly back to Michigan to attempt to get rid of my belongings and my house. The house is Gravesend is big enough that I can ship some of my stuff but there are so many decisions to make.

mary

Mary&Tom,

Good Luck with the move....also good luck once you have to pack everything up in Michigan. I am currently going through my things and my fiance things to get rid of both of our things. I am able to store most of my things that I don't want to ship. I have to get rid of my car and his cars, both of our furniture, and lots of clothes, as we both have way to many clothes. I will be in England in May! Yeah I will see my honey again!

We will re-file once we get married. The wedding was set for the end of April over here, but since they denied John we are having it in England in July. We have had to cancel all of our wedding plans and my parents have lost alot of money. Now we aren't going to have the wedding we really wanted but we will still have the church wedding with a small reception. Hopefully everything will work out this time.

Now I need to figure out how to file everything. Of course our lawyer wants to help still but we don't have any extra money. He told us it would be at a discounted rate, but we really can't afford it with me not working for a few months. Hopefully we can figure everything out on this site.....

I am going up to Chicago in a few weeks to get my UK visa. It is so much easier to get a visa to go over there.

Well Good Luck to both of you..and i hope somehow, somewhere, you can both be happy..

I am glad you also have a plan. That is another thing I will have to do... try to get a fiance visa for me. Do you have to go to Chicago or can it all be done by mail? I haven't even begun to sort out that part of things. That would be quite a journey for me to go to Chicago on my own as I do not drive expressways. In fact one big advantage of living in the Uk will be not having to ever drive again! LOL!

mary

Yes, it can be done by mail but I just feel safer going there. I was able to make a appointment online and then I just have to be there that day. Yes, it is in Chicago. It is a 5-hour drive so we are leaving after work and then staying at a Hotel downtown. They will issue it that day. Also on the website it lists everything you need to take on send it. You fill the application out on line then you print it off and take it with you. I will PM you with the webaddress.....

The fiance visa is very quick. We arranged our wedding in 3 weeks, and that included the visa, new child passports, booking planes and the registrar (thats where Scotland came in handy).

On another note, today we finally got confirmation of approval!!

Not by phone, but email.



Short but sweet I guess. I'll dig out the hardship stuff now we know it worked.