Aw, Tracy....I'm sure Mary appreciates everyone's concern.

Im not a reg to this thread or section, but had your 'situation' brought to my attention. I'd like to say how extremely sorry I am to hear your news today.

My words will mean nothing to you, today of all days, but I hope you choose the right and successful path for both of you. I just want to wish you the best of luck...and I hope justice is done in the end , for you.

we are just too exhausted and numb to post much more right now... i will try later... but this weekend tom is working early shifts a the hostpital... so yesterday when we got the news we had been awake since 4 am. he left again this morning at 4am and i was supposed to go back to bed but i cannot sleep. i have been awake since 2 am. slept from maybe 10 until 2.

for anyone who doesn't understand why we were denied, here is the original post i made after the interview.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums2/index.p...c=43106&st=2160

i just don't understand why the embassy said we could file the waiver if it was a hopeless waste of time. we have lost three months now. when we went to the interview we expected a denial with no chance to waiver. but when they read the explaination and saw it was such a small fine they said we could file... but first we waited hours while they checked with supervisors... we assumed that the waiver department had been contacted and was ok with it. i guess not. or maybe they were but by the time they got around to processing our waiver the person who had ok'd it had forgotten or was not involved.

three days before the interview we had a flat lined up. we had to let it go because when we filed the waiver they said not to change our address. one of the purposes of my visit here was for us to find a place to live and let me get used to london so I could go home and somehow tackle the overwhelming job of liquidating 30 years worth of belongings. now we have no place to live....this is the tiniest two room flat you can imagine.... and i will be going back exhausted and upset instead of recharged and ready. and now tom has used up his holiday time during my visit here so he will have very little time to find a place and get moved. the week before i return he has to work 16hour shifts all week... then he gets a couple of days off... to take me to the airport...


mary

Hi Mary,

it is difficult to fathom any of it. I can only guess they were feeling optimistic for you both at the time and if there was any chance for a waiver then you should have taken that. I remember the lady that dealt with my initial interview was very sympathetic and encouraging. The guy that processed my 601 wasn't so much.

But 3 months to tell you flat that it was unwaiverable all along is unbelievable. I can't imagine how that must feel (even though my imagination is testing that). I really hope you get some positive energy to put into your next phase and you can look forward to the changes.

Rob

Well the consulate and DHS are two separate animals and often dont see eye to eye. Case in point would be Liam's problem months ago and another poster's problem on the I2U website. He is now battling the DHS office because they didnt even look at his hardship information meaning they ignored DHS policy.

I am sorry you were denied and had to wait for nothing. It's really not fair. I am sure you will do what is right for you guys. Good luck to you both!!!

Just wanted to say how sorry I am that your wavier got denied.

HUGS

Wishing the best for you two

Mary & Tom

So saddened to hear of your denial, ive been waiting to see the outcome of this since the day you went to london for the interview and begain the wait.
my heart goes out to you both, i wish you both well for the future whichever path you take (hugs)

(same) more or less...the difference is when you resubmitt to reconsider waiver again...all you do is ask the officer to go over it again...to see if he/she can change his/her mind or he/she missed something most people skip that and file the MTR.....when you file MTR then new hardships i mean make them stronger and a board of appeals deal with that in washington DC...with new officer/s look at your case..
Yep...Mary...MTR ..reopen file...this goes to the board of appeals in WDC immigration...
you must submitt this i think within a short time after the waiver was denied...i "think" its "15 days" after..but i check it out if ya like...
when you file MTR with hardhips letters with stronger arguments this then would go to board of immigration appeals....WDC...i think if that fails you can if your pocket will take you is to a immigration court of appeals..but really i cant see that to happen in your case as this thing of ya hubby was yrs ago...this is what makes me more mad about your case here...

I can't say how you both must be feeling at this time...but it must be a bloody nightmare...
like i said you have options here and if you want to take them like members who are/ was the same as you both and got Approved at the end...its a pain in the ### and a little longer but worth it in the end...
but its your call whatever you decide my love...

The only bit of sound Advice i can give you is...several things..ie..

contact L.scott...via e/mail (small fee) think $35.00
or she has a open surgery on her web site chat on wed ev (free)
then she will let you know straight up what needs to be done ect....yes she will charge you but i think she will work with you with payments to....she has a good Approvel rate in this topic waivers ect...she learned her trade through her husband who was also denied....so she do know her stuff..ive been told by many....

Mary get in contact its worth a call or mail..thats if you want to...
or if money is tight then why not do it yaself with the help from immigrant2us.net site...there are many members who has and still is in the same as you both...

Mary.....this got to be a big drain on you both....and whatever you both decide....i and others here will back you up....100%
In the mean time i shall let you be with your husband and give you time to take in this pain in the ### system the us immigration has...

As a side Note i feel the treatment of a USc is nothing short as in-humane to say the least...
what gives them power freaks to jusify two loving people to be split from each other?
How can they can play God? Who the hell they think they are?
Im so bloody mad about this...im really am...sorry everyone but really...arrrrrrrrr

Mary and Tom..your not on your own.....there is help there and options for you.....

Whatever you do...myself and others will back you and respect whatever path you both take.....

I wish you both well....

God Bless..

we do appreciate everyones support and suggestions. at the moment our minds still are not working correctly. we do not know what to do.. feel too battered to do anything really. i think we are in shock. we really believed at the interview that they were saying it would be treated as personal possession but now we find the waiver department only saw it as exporting.

it was personal possession.. not tom's but it was possession by the guy who owned the car.. it was a personal amount for the personal use of that person .. they just happened to be on their way to ireland and were stopped at the ferryport. obviously that guy was totally stupid to have it in that situation. if tom had known it was in the car he would have insisted they turn around or get rid of it.

i guess what we really needed with our waiver was an extremely detailed explaination of what happened... not the concise account we gave them. we tend to find wordy overdone explanations tiresome so we went for the main facts. that was the mistake i fear.

we should have said in detail every single thing that happened that night at the ferryport and also at the court date a month later. i just cannot believe that the court had no transcripts from that day. i think in the states they would. in court they specifically said he would be pleading guilty to personal possession. the court lawyer totally intimidated him into doing so.. saying that if he pled innocent (which he was) that he would not be believed (how does one proove such a thing?) and would be tried in a higher court (this was the magistrates court) and then the court would be angry about him wasting their time on such a "trivial" matter and would be very hard on him.

tom never knew that the charge was attempted exporting until he got his police report last august. apparently that is what is charged when it happens at customs. the other bad thing is there was no amount given on the police or court records. the only waiver available for a drug offense is if its personal, one time only, and under 30 grams.

in the denial they didnt like it that no amount was given. tom wrote to the court after getting that report asking them to clarify the amount and verify the fact that it was treated as personal possession. my god, the fine was only £100 pounds in a magistrate court.. how can anyone not see that this could not be anything more than a small personal amount? they saw that at the embassy.. they said they could see it was not trafficking.. does anyone traffick to ireland? its so ridiculous. i am so angry. this one thing is tearing our lives apart. not just our lives... my kids and my best friend and my mom will be devastated.

when the court answered toms inquiry they said they had no further records and that therefor the charge stood at exporting. they had no amount. i suppose it was so small no one bothered to weigh it. the court lawyer did say something to tom about it being a tiny amount. tom never saw the stuff so he doesnt really know what it was.

we brought the court letter to the embassy and they seemed to think it strengthened our case.. the fact that the court didnt see it as serious enough to bother to weigh it or keep records. but now the waiver department has turned it against us.. they quoted part of it saying that it showed it was viewed as a more serious crime than possession and that tom knew that. well he didnt know until he got the police report..he would never have known if we hadnt filed the visa application. he wrote to them after he found out. we were sure they would have some record of what actually happened in court that day.

so... our hardships are irrelevant... the end of the denial letter states that we are denied as a matter of law because exporting is not waiverable and therefor no hardships are to be considerered. i will quote it...

"As the applicant provides no other evidence and since the conviction was for attempting to export a controlled drug, no relief is available under Section 212 (h) of the Act. Since the applicant is not eligible for relief, no purpose would be served by considering hardship to a qualifying relative or exercising the Attorney General's discretion.

Therefore, the application for waiver of grounds of admissibility is denied, as a matter of law."

We didn't satisfy them that his admission to the United States would not be contrary to the national welfare, safety or security of the United States. !!!!

I will attach a picture.. you be the judge....

by the way.. that picture was taken during his april visit last year to michigan... with my beloved dog Sadie. every time he left to come back to london, her heart was broken. she was waiting to be reunited with him when she died in October. Their reunion was not to be. That still breaks my heart. She really went downhill after he left. I truly believe that if he had been back with us in the autumn she would still be with us. I had to make the heart rending decision to let her go. She would never have survived being kenneled and I would not have been able to come to London. I had no one to care for her.

in tribute to her I post her archived webpages...

http://www.pbrc.net/smile/sadiemi.html

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/pages/maryspet.html

I will be going back to a cold empty house with her not there. I so wanted to go back with Tom. My heart is broken. My government has let me down and broken my heart.

This is so similar to the things that make our case.
The one thing that the waiver is dependant upon, that being less than 30gms of marijuana, is not mentioned in any supporting evidence that is kept on record.
I too was hopeful until I got my police record back were it just says "drug offence". Nothing more.
Frantic calls and letters to the court records office revealed that they kept nothing. The arresting officer has since left the force and the representing solicitor has passed away.

It is frankly frightening that the rules for US admission is inconsistant with UK record keeping.

The only thing I can suggest if you do persue this further is to attempt to contact any arresting officers at the time who may remember the case (as I was informed that they tend to keep personal diaries), and anyone who represented Tom in court.


I'm so sorry to hear of Sadie. She looks beautiful and was extremely fortunate to find a home with such a devoted owner. I sincerely hope you get things sorted as soon as possible and can open your doors to other needy pooches. You are obviously decent people. If such photos can assist your case I'd certainly include them.

Dear Mary & Tom,

I have been away from the forum for a couple of days and now have read your news......... what can I say that hasn't been eloquently put by the others in the forum?... I am so so sorry for you both.

I think it is terrible that the people that make decisions on these waivers do not attempt to get ALL the facts on waiver applications before making a decision that can effect peoples lives.... it is just terrible.

You both seem like decent, loving people. You do not deserve this............. this system is seriously floored.

my thoughts go out to both



Paul

I really think you should find a good immigration attorney if you didnt have one going into it. If you did then I humbly apologize. IMO I think you should re-file and this time be way more thorough if possible. It is up to you however. I hope you both reach a decision in your lives where you can be together. I am very very sorry this happened to you! It's not fair at all!

I'm so, so sorry to hear of this Mary and Tom I can only echo what others have said...sending you thoughts and hugs...

Kiki

when we found out last august that the charge had been listed as exporting we did consult a lawyer. he saw a top usa immigration lawyer here in london who told him that he could not help us... that the charge was unwaiverable and that we would be denied at the interview with no chance to waiver. previous to that i went into laurel scott's chat room and she said we could not go to the interview with that charge. another user on this site who is a lawyer specializing in waivers confirmed.

we only went to the interview for closure. we didnt want to always wonder "what if." we were prepared for the denial and were surprised to be given the chance to waiver. we were assured that we had a very good chance. we waited for over an hour while they checked with supervisors. we were told that the charge would be treated as personal possession. the interviewers liked tom.. .anyone who meets him can tell he is a good person. he is well respected and highly trusted at work. maybe we should have mentioned in our letters that the biggest hospital in the uk trusts him with access to all areas of the hospital. it is killing me to see him treated like this.

we are not doing very well right now. exhausted, discouraged, disoriented. we desperately need some time to sort this out but yesterday someone called in sick at work so now tom is working 16 hours today and tomorrow. we won't be able to discuss this any further til wednesday. a form to appeal was included with the denial but how can that help? the charge is still what it is.. .still unwaiverable. i just dont understand why we were let to believe it would be treated otherwise. they made us feel like we were ok and just had to file the required papers and wait.

suddenly the hardships i listed in my letter are feeling more and more real and more and more horrible. but mostly i feel terrible for tom. its terrible for this nightmare from so long again be brought to the forefront now and affect the whole rest of our lives. he loved the usa when he visited. now he will never be able to go there ever again and if i am living with him here i will never go back there without him. i am terrified of flying.. it was totally an act of love on my part to get on that plane to come here. how I will go back to sort things out i cannot even bear to think about. i had so hoped to go back together.

can anyone help me find out how long an appeal process would take and if its even possible to get an approval given the circumstances? also can i call the embassy and talk to the people who advised us on the day of the interview? or to the supervisor who approved letting us file the waiver? how did Liam get in touch with the embassy after being denied at the POE? i am messaged and emailed him but he has not logged on.

the bottom line is... we cannot handle another long separation. we just can't. not at this stage in our lives. tom is only 45 but i am quite a few years older... and this process is not helping. we are both generally very laid back people... we do not deal well with stress. i feel bad about the extra stress that falling in love with me has added to his life. it should have been easier.

mary

Mary, like PaulC I have been "away" from the site for a few days, but in light of the fact that my hubby may have to file a waiver in order for us to be with our daughter, I do check on this post a few times and I, like many others have been waiting for your outcome.

What can I say Mary, apart from the fact I am devastated for both you and Tom, I have no idea at all what you will both be going through but can only imagine that it will be pretty terrible. I cannot offer you any advice as I do not know anything really about this process but I can see that you have many friends on here.

My worries regarding the length of time our process has been going pale into insignificance compared to what you and Tom are not going through.

My heart goes out to you both and I can only say a prayer for you and sincerely hope that somehow, someway, someday, you will find a way around this. Thoughts are with you both today

I know this is completely off the subject but I had a freind at work who asked me this question today. His wife is going to New Zealand for work and her green card is expired, he asked what she should do. By further talking to him he told me that she reapplied for her green card about 4 weeks ago but hasn't heard anything yet. They are leaving in 2 weeks. I told him not to let her go. Any opinions or suggestions?

no one knows how Liam managed to contact the embassy and get back in to see them when he had his problems? i feel we deserve to talk to the supervisor who arranged for us to be allowed to file the waiver. the matter of the wording of the charge was supposed to have been already sorted. we did not expect that part to be an issue.

mary

Guys

I do not believe that your CIMT is not waiverable, are you sure you didnt misread the letter?
even violent crimes are waiverable (difficult but still there is a legal right to try)

By the way, we just got denied too but in Lima.

To file a Motion to reconsider you need to show that the law was misapplied. I just filed one.
however if it goes to the appeals office in washington it will take a long time and probably get
denied, SO... if your MTR fails then withdraw it and file another brand new waiver.

you really need to check this out your options are not all exhausted yet





P

I'm not quite sure if Liam contacted the embassy or if they contacted him? He doesn't seem to be on the vj forum much at the moment but he is probably busy organising weddings and stuff in the US. Maybe Nigel can give some inout on this one??

I spokt Liam a lot before he was approved (as we had similar situations) but I think getting a phone number to speak to ANYONE in the embassy will be a difficult one.

I have heard that getting a your congressman involved in the states does really help! would that be an option?

Paul

i don't know if you have read all of my posts.. especially the one that i made right after the interview that explains the circumstance:


http://www.visajourney.com/forums2/index.p...c=43106&st=2160

the ONLY waiver for a drug offence is if it is one time only, simple possession, and under 30 grams (cannibus)

because this happened at customs... the swansea ferryport in wales... waiting for a ferry to ireland (which means they were going to another country)... what was in fact simple possession in any other circumstance became attempted exporting. never mind that it wasnt even tom's stuff and he didnt know it was in the car.

further complicating the situation is the fact that no record was ever kept of the amount so we have no proof it was under 30 grams. however, common sense should show that it had to be a small amount. he only received a £100 pound fine in a magistrate court. the court lawyer who insisted he plead guilty (intimidated him into believing he would be in alot of trouble if he didn't) said it was a tiny amount, would result in a small fine... that he was to plead guilty to personal possession and it would be a "slap on the wrist."

that "slap" is hitting us awfully hard 8 years later!

tom never knew that the formal charge was exporting until he sent for his police report and court report for this immigration process. for 8 years he thought it was personal possession. and of course, given the small fine, it is a spent crime now here in the UK. as far as the UK is concerned he does not have to disclose this to anyone. unfortunately the USA does not honor Britains Rehabilitation of Offenders Act.

tom was always unhappy that he had been forced into pleading guilty to something he didn't do. now it has come back to haunt him in such and unfair way... for both of us.

we did not misread the letter.... I quoted part of it in a previous post....


"As the applicant provides no other evidence and since the conviction was for attempting to export a controlled drug, no relief is available under Section 212 (h) of the Act. Since the applicant is not eligible for relief, no purpose would be served by considering hardship to a qualifying relative or exercising the Attorney General's discretion.

Therefore, the application for waiver of grounds of admissibility is denied, as a matter of law."

my point is... they should not have let us file the waiver in the first place if this was to be the result. however, we were told at the interview that they could see this was not a case of trafficking (which exporting is). they spent time a long time speaking with supervisors and when they finally called us back to the window and gave us the waiver forms, we were led to believe it was being treated as simple possession... as that is the only waiver available for a drug offence.

so... now you tell me even violent crimes are waiverable? this is such a messed up system. so if he had committed a violent crime we could live in the usa... but because he was in a car one night where someone had a small amount of marijuana, we cannot. because of that one night so long ago, that was mishandled by the officials concerned, i am sentenced to a life away from my kids and grandkids and have to leave the house i have lived in for 30 years! and the man i love will never even be able to visit there with me. he can't even go there to help me with the daunting task of trying to liquidate 30 years worth of household goods and get a 150 year old beat up house ready for sale.

i am terrified that we will be separated for many months while i try to do all that on my own. i am too old to have this time taken away from us. we are being cheated of time we need to have together. we are mourning for the lifestyle we could have and should have been entitled to. my government has let me down. they don't care about me at all. they don't care about how much they have hurt me.. how much they have hurt us.


mary

Well I was happy for a minute. I received an email from London stating our interview was for May 6th 2006 at 10:30 am. (we requested May) Then I realized that May 6th is on a Saturday. I think there is a mistake since I thought the embassy only took appointments from Monday to Friday. I guess we will wait and see what the letter says when we get it. May have just been a typo.


Baileyj

I would wait until you get the letter, too, but I don't think Saturday interviews are entirely unheard of, either. Good news anyway!

And Mary, I've been so worried for you and Tom...I just hate to see you still suffering over this whole situation. I'd love to see you fight it; it's absurd that convictions for violent offenses can be waived while non-violent drug offenses so many years in the past can't (and Tom wasn't even *actually* guilty, from what you've told us). Still, though, as everyone here has said, you'll make the decision that's best for both of you. We're still all behind you.

*hugs*

I'd just like to let everyone know that today is the day that I got my "rude" e-mail from the London USCIS dept. that I have been waiting for!!

So they said it was put on their system today, I guess I can kiss goodbye the 2nd of February as the date that I should be waiting from, even though that was when I ORIGINALLY submitted the waiver in London in person......

still it's on the system anyway.....

is it me or does even good news on this forum at the moment sound strange.... because of what Tom and Mary are going through....

I still can't beleive what happened to them

On a lighter note...I still have yet to hear from the Embassy about our waiver. It has technically been 12 weeks since the put us in the system...ahhhh....how frustrating.....

oh ugh!!! I was sure you would get your approval today... I had a theory that they sit and wait so that you find out exactly at 12 weeks. When we got the letter on Friday it was exactly 12 weeks from when we were put into the system... but 14 weeks from our interview date. We started the whole thing last April. If we had known then what we know now, we should have just started back then to make arrangements for me to move here.

thing is... my sadie was still alive then.... and she could not come to the uk because pitbulls are banned here. she could never have survived the 6 month quarantine period anyway... she had a huge need to be with her people at all times. so... my dog was banned in the Uk and now my man is banned in the USA. what a world we live in.

mary

jpkeswim,

did you actually submit your waiver on the day of your interview in London or was it mailed in?

I wish we would find out soon! I think we are worrying our parents sick. They are too old to worry also. Everytime one of them calls us they always ask, "did they call." I always tell them don't you think you would know by now if they had called. And of course everyone always has their own theory when he is going to get over here. Sorry I had to go on a tangent....

Mary,

sorry yes I didnt realize that was what you were talking about, ...

P

PaulC

Yes we actually submitted our waiver the day of the interview. It didn't get in the system until a week and a half later though. Our lawyer had all that paper work in order for us. We knew we were going to have to file for his overstay.........

Karen

Mary,

I've never been hapy with what the courts told me regarding not having any other information other than what was supplied by the police certificate. After a lot of phone calls and requests, I trusted their word that that was true. I've spent the past couple of weeks researching into this further. It seems there is precious little information on the web about marijuana offences and the I-601, and most of it isn't particularly helpful.

What I did find out is that you can demand a copy of the courts documents from Her Majesty's Court Service. This is called a Memorandum of Conviction. You will need the exact sentencing date for that, which is shown on the police certificate. From what I gather this document will detail what was said in court and may well shed some light into Tom's part in what happened. The Courts Service office may not necessarily be the court that Tom was sentenced in.

This past week I have been doing just that and today I have been told that my court records have shown up after all. It costs £25 to obtain a copy. I immediately escaped from work to send off a postal order for the amount. I then phoned the embassy who told me to send any post-interview documents to the Immigrant Visa Section.

(So right now for the first time I hope they actually haven't begun processing my waiver!)

From what I have read, it seems better to resubmit the waiver rather than go through the appeal process, but it seems you will definitely need any information that proves Toms part in the incident.

As regards phone numbers, I just used the general £1.20 a minute line. Otherwise I have found this page :

http://www.goldsteinvisa.com/london_v.html

which has plenty on, but I can't verify any of them!

Rob

Thank you. I will show this post to Tom when he gets home from work soon.

mary

Mary and Tom, I had been out of town since last week, but have been thinking about you. I had hoped it was good news and I'm so sorry to hear of the difficult time you're going through. I also hope you all decide to fight this. I can't believe that the courts over there don't keep records of what happens in criminal court! Especially since it was only seven years ago, did you say? Good luck with whatever you decide. My thoughts and prayers are with you at this time.


On a completely different note, did anyone else go immediately to the us london embassy "new tracking service" for I601 waivers? I certainly did and I must say I was shocked!!! Here I was thinking, well, they must process thousands of these every month and that's why they've extended the processing times. Imagine my puzzlement when I discovered a mere seven in their system since February! What's that about?! Why is it taking so long? Anyone care to venture a guess? I also noticed that we're not on that list and I'm wondering when we will be. I'd like to be able to finally start the twelve weeks. Did I mention I'm trying to plan a wedding!?

Tiff

Hi cmltdg,

Don't know if you noticed but I think it says that only the waivers filed after Feb are on the new tracking system. Yours was filed before that i think so you wouldn't be on there. It does still seem strange that there are so few listed even if it only list waivers filed after that time.

Hope you hear something soon,

Baileyj

Tiff,

Bailey's right, only waivers filed after the 1st of Feb are on there. However I was also surprised to find that an office that deals with the jurisdiction of not only the UK waivers, but also ones from Iceland, Sweden, Denmark, Norway and the Republic of Ireland has only SEVEN waivers on it's tracking system since the 1st of Feb.

I guess they are in the process of putting them onto this new system, maybe they put so many on every week, as the last input date hasn't moved since last Friday!

Tiff, haven't you received your rude e-mail from London Uscis saying that the waiver was received etc. and not to bother them? If you got that you can count down the 12-15 weeks from that received date.

Mine was received by their office on the 7th of March.

Talking of which.... hey Nigel, how about updating the UK waiver list, I haven't seen it for a while am miss it deeply

Paul

Got out our paperwork and guess what? The court report that we have is the Memorandum of Conviction. It lists the fine and court costs and says discount given for guilty plea. It also states the charge.. and that is the problem... it says "a quantity of cannabis resin... etc." It does not include anything that was said in court... just that he pled guilty and consented to a summary trial. So according to this he pled guilty to the exporting charge but it was distinctly stated in court that he was pleading guilty to personal possession. Unless there is a record of that somewhere else, I don't see how we can take this any further.

As I have said before, when he wrote back to the court to ask for those details.. the amount and the fact that it was treated as personal possession, they said they had no further information on record.

mary

*sigh*

*hug*

I hope things work out for you Mary. This is really silly and unfair!

Paul, Nigel is probably on his way to the US..he never did give a departure date come to think of it!

MistyB--

I just noticed that you received all the passports on Monday. Congrats and I hope your journeys back to the states work out! Now we are still waiting on the phone call from the Embassy. Still haven't heard anything.

Mary -- You and Tom are in our prayers.

Talk to all later....

Hey, Paul, no I didn't receive any rude email. The guy that we emailed my clarifying letter to emailed me back and said after he's done with it it has to go to some other guy who will handle it or some such and send it on to USCIS and that should take about a week to two weeks. That was last Wednesday when I got that email. So now I'm wondering if that online tracking thing is a good idea ... for me! Now I can obsessively check it every week. I just looked at it again this morning and there we are listed as being in the system on 3/6, so let the countdown begin! I hope it flies by. I'm just trying to think on the positive side how these last three months have flown by.
Anyway, I'm still hoping good things for you, Mary. I guess there was no court reporter taking down the proceedings? That's really odd, especially in a criminal proceeding. I'm a court reporter and I know we have to keep our notes even, if they're never transcribed, for ten years. I've gotten orders for proceedings to be transcribed seven years later!
Have a great day, all!
Tiff

Regarding MaryandTom:

I asked around the law office here about how things are handled when someone is picked up with a small amount of cannabis. I am told that the police report would show the amount. The amount in question would determine whether or not it is a misdemeanor or felony. From there of course there are various and assundry charges which could be filed.

What you have in this case are a myriad of factors complicated by the border crossing. Chalk it up to 'bad lawyering' or whatever you like that the improper charge was filed. The fact that Tom was frightened at the time or bullied is also irrelevant. It may have mattered at the time, and it may be a miscarriage of justice, but IT HAPPENED - it's really rather pointless to go on and on about how unfair it was. It's also unfair to blame the US government for interpreting a record that was produced by the UK juris system, is it not?

The onus is and always has been on the petitioner to prove their case. My opinion - Joe Smith, layperson in the street, cannot successfully overturn this denial. It would take competent counsel to sift through this. Plus to take the emotion out of it. This has to be fought with facts, not cries of 'foul'.

As to record keeping, in the US, possession of drugs in small quantity would probably be heard in magistrate court where there is no court reporter. So the COURT RECORD might not show the amount, but as I stated above, the police report would.

Tom was crossing the border - does customs have a record of the amount? And even if the amount can be ascertained, who is going to prove that the charge was improper? Do you see why I am saying that this will take more to overturn than any of us here are capable of?

I am only trying to hash this down to the simple facts, which is what will be necessary if Mary and Tom decide to take this further.

Dear Mary and Tom,
I haven't been on visajourney too much lately, but I did check into the waivers forum today to see how you were doing and was very distressed to see your news. I am thinking of you and sending you my thoughts and love. I don't know what else to say just know people support you and think of you. Take care and hope things work out for you in the long run.

sounds like we might as well just give up then. i had thought i could talk to the embassy about this because they did let us file the waiver... they did that on the grounds it would be treated as personal possession... i had hoped they could find out why it wasn't treated that way after supervisors had already been consulted to make sure we were ELIGIBLE to file. so now the denial states we are ineligible. i guess i won't bother to make any calls. probably out of time anyway.

anyone with any common sense can see that no actually trafficking offence would be handled in a magistrates court.. and receive a £100 fine.

i hate this.... tom is working 2pm today til 7am tomorrow morning. you think this is the life i want for him? that would never happen in the usa.

mary

Your case may be defensable, but in my opinion, only in the hands of competent counsel and it will take some time. If you really want to live in the US there may be a way but I truly believe it is simply above the skill level of a layperson.

And yes, I do think men working those kind of hours happens in the USA. And if you want your life to change, it can....whether it be here or over there....

Try to stay positive. I am very very worried about your state of mind. *hugs*

I hate reading the defeatist attitude, mary&tom. I can understand why, but at some point, you have to get the 'fight' back in you and start getting ready to organize your life - with Tom and without the US (our loss, in my opinion).

Personally I would love to live in the UK, but my fiance's job and living situation makes it highly unfeasible for us. Sounds like Tom has a good job with a pension, which is so much more than a lot of others have.

Many, many people never find the love of their lives, which is truly truly sad. At least you two can be together - even if it isn't exactly in the way you wanted. I guess all I'm saying is don't let the stupid US government ruin your lives and squash your happiness. Are they really worth that?

Can you really and truly understand why Mary feels as crappy as she does? Waivers are very very nervewracking. They are time consuming. They are expensive. You are putting your hopes and dreams in the hands of a stranger that doesnt know squat about you as a person. They are deciding how you will live your life with the person you love. Mary is devastated and rightly so. She has been through the wringer in this waiver fiasco. None of it makes sense as to why they would even let them file for the waiver if they knew all along it was unwaiverable. Someone didnt do their job properly and gave them false information. I would call the consulate tomorrow and demand to speak to the consul. Someone out there has answers. Mary really needs those answers. It's easy to tell her to fight but she's just had her life turned upside down. That takes a bit of recovery.

I do believe Rebecca was right though. I believe Mary needs an excellent immigration attorney. Maybe that attorney could even consult with a UK criminal attorney and find out what the heck happened.

Again I hope you are ok Mary and you just take all the time you need to really think about your future. Just as long as you two are together...

Misty, you have explained better than I could. I know I am not thinking clearly and probably my posts make no sense at all. Today it feels like we have moved from feeling numb and exhausted to confused and tired. Still not the best place to be while making life decisions.

In the autumn, after we found out what was on the police and court reports, Tom did consult a top attorney here in London. An American lawyer who specializes in waivers. He told us to disengage and withdraw our petition. He said he could not help us.. that we would not be offered the chance to waiver. We were unable to do that. We needed closure so we went to the interview against his advice, that of laurel scott and another lawyer from this forum. We did not expect to be offered the waiver. When they decided to let us file the petition (as I have said before they consulted supervisors first and, we assumed, those who would be processing the petition ). We were pleased and optimistic at this point. We were told they have a high approval rate. We were told we had a good chance. We relaxed as much as possible for the first two months of the wait as we had been told it would take two months. However, the entire month of February became increasingly stressful as we waited each morning for that phone to ring. We did expect it to eventually ring... with the news we were waiting for.

So, yes, life has been turned upside down. During this waiting period we allowed ourselves to become excited again about our life in the states. We have a home ready for us there. My family is there and they all really like Tom. During his visits we bought things together to prepare for his move. His new computer desk and chair are waiting there. We bought kitchen and gardening supplies together. He bought the USA software data for his GPS unit. He bought a telescope that we planned to use out at the lakeside property that my daughter owns. I know those are just material things and unimportant in the larger scheme of things, but I am mentioning them because it shows where our hearts and minds were. We had a LIFE planned there.

When we went to the interview we had just started coming to terms with the situation. We had a flat lined up that we were going to move into the following week. We had to let it go when the embassy told us not to change address while the waiver was being processed. Now I suddenly feel homeless. We have spent the last four months in a two room flat with no kitchen. If I go back to Michigan on the 21st, I will leave not knowing where we will be living. I will go back to the home that we were meant to occupy together and somehow get rid of most of the belongings I have accumulated over a period of 30 years. I have lived most of my adult life in that house. I don't mind giving up things... they are just things.... ok, I do hate giving up my 4000 cds and the shelves I built for them. I don't mind selling the house if it means that maybe eventually we can buy something here. What I do dread is the fact that we have to be separated again for what could be months as I tackle what seems to be an unsurmountable task. It is a huge house. We probably would have eventually sold it and bought something else, but we would have done all the work together. We work very well together.

Of course Tom was going to have to sort all his stuff before coming to the states but he has two small rooms full... I have 11 big rooms full. Huge closets and all sorts of built-in storage... all full. How long do you think it would take one person to sort all that alone? I just am not sure I am physically or emotionally up to the task. All my kids have things stored there. My ex has stuff still stored there because the only way I can ever get him to take any of it is if I sort and pack it and carry it out of the house !!!


Tracy, we do realize how lucky we are to have found each other. Our love for each other has never been in question. We know we are lucky to have spent as much time together as we have during this process. Many cannot. The four month separation we had between July and November was unbearable. I wasn't with him when he got that police report. I wasn't with him the day the lawyer said we would never be offered a waiver. I am grateful I was with him when he got the denial letter. We spent the entire weekend numb and in shock but we were together... except for when he was at work. Fortunately he only worked single shifts over the weekend. I started really losing it when he had to work double shifts starting Monday. Fortunately we had this morning and early afternoon together. We needed it. However we were not able to come to any decisions yet. We are both still too confused and overwhelmed right now.

Misty, we really do have to think long and hard about our future... but we will be together. They can't take that away from us...unless the stress finally kills us. Can you imagine how exhausting this has been for Tom to work 16 hour shifts while under this kind of stress?

Mary

I wonder what would happen if the press got a hold of your story, Mary.

Just a thought.

Mary and Tom, I really do feel for you. I've been reading the thread for a while now, but I never really posted because my waiver was being filed in Canada. But I still paid attention to what was going on in these threads on VJ as well as immigrate to 2 us site.

I understand how you and Tom feel. It's like a rug has been pulled out from underneath you. You build up all this hope because you were lead to believe that something was possible and than bam you get broad sided. This entire journey is a frail one. There’s so much at stake and so much involved with the whole process. It’s like a big rollercoaster ride with no clear end in site especially when you have to file a waiver. At least that’s my take on this long tedious process. Although my situation is slightly different than yours and Tom’s, I do understand your agony. I'm not trying to take the focus away from what you're experiencing and going through. But I know what it's like to put your life on hold while you wait for things to be resolved, as I’m sure many are here. It's depressing to know that people sneak into the States all the time and commit crimes and do hateful things and those of us who haven't done anything unlawful pay. One feels as though they are in a constant state of limbo. Can't really do anything in the States and can't really do anything anywhere else while you wait for judgment. I hate the fact that people have all these preconceived notations before you go into the interview and don't look at all the facts. I feel that that's the most maddening thing. I know that there are tons of people filing waivers but shouldn't one take the time to read one's particular case before making a judgment. I mean look at all the people smuggling drugs into the States. Do they get bans like the rest of us who are legit? In some cases it's a slap on the wrist and on their way they go. It's very frustrating. I believe the US is so worried about letting us foreigners in, but they should really be more concerned with what the average Joe in the US does than the productive citizens of foreign countries whose only mistake was marring someone who was not a USC.

When my husband and I got my interview notice, we were ecstatic. We were so confident that I was coming home, I started to liquidate everything here in Canada and get to the interview and be told by the adjucator that they wont listen to your case over a simple overstay, they wont let you file a waiver period is devastating. There aren't enough words out there to use to explain how it can affect you. It's so unimaginable to think that one person has so much power over you. I realize that there are people here who will read my comments and wonder whether my case is more complex than what I say. It really isn't, I was working in the US on a TN, switched job but not Visa’s and when I renewed I was informed that that was illegal and that I had overstayed my visa by 191 days. In the span of 5 hours my life and that of my husband were turned upside down. It's not even the fact that I received a ban, it's getting to the interview having everything prepared and being told that they won’t listen to your case. Its hard letting someone decided your fate, knowing that you’re a decent person and you did something stupid, learned your mistake now let me be with my spouse. Very hard indeed.

Joanna