I know we've gone over this before but I'm lost as to what the purpose of the home visits are? Seems like it's a normal step these days in cases from Egypt who are in long Administrative Processing cycles. What exactly do these visits prove? Anyone?

My husband had his home visit a few weeks ago. The man asked the surrounding neighbors if they knew he was married "from a foreign one" and if he really lived there.

What does that prove in terms of our marriage? My next door neighbors know nothing of my life, why should his?

And for the ones that actually have their families interviewed normally the question is, how do you feel about the marriage. . . . What does that have to do with anything? So if the family dislikes the new bride the visa is a no-go?


Someone please explain this part of our journey to us because it is making NO sense whatsoever to me. Seems like a flippin' waste of time in terms of what they discover to prove the relationship.


Oh and while I'm at it...what about cases like cheryl who already had a home visit and had ANOTHER one a long time after? What did THAT prove?

I think they're seeing if someone is going to slip up and give some sort of indication that the marriage is only for papers. I don't know if Egypt is like Morocco in this way, but it seems like neighbors know each other's business much more so than here.

I agree.

Yes, Egypt is like Morocco in that way. You can't even pass gas without the neighbors knowing about it there. Really invasive society. Personally, that would drive me insane.

well yeah the home visit is an option the USA embassy in Cairo use it to prove that couple really have a real relationship
and its so different in Egypt people know everything about each others
at least they don't hide anything when they get married of engaged cause they want to share that happiness with all of their neighbors
and thats what the USA embassy doing
they try to find out if your husband hide that of he share that with all of his neighbors its kinda good prove to the embassy that its a real relationship
and the USA embassy don't make that home visit to all people but they do that when they looking for more prove to the relationship
like there is a gap between the couple age or when the spouse didn't do good at the interview like he/she miss some of the interview question .........things like that
just be patient and everything will be OK inshaallah
my best wishes for ya
have a blessed day

I guess I kind of understand it but what if the neighbors hate the person who petitioned for the visa? Not in my case but seriously with all the evil eyes and such going on over there what if a neighbor sought out to sabatage it by saying no I know nothing about a marriage and no he does not live here. That means the couple's fate is in the hands of some neighbors? That just doesn't sit right with me. In our case the neighbors said yes he is married from a foreign one and answered all questions truthfully but moreso because they were scared sh!tless that they were being questioned by the police and that they'd be tortured if they didn't answer the right way. Seriously. I don't agree with this at all. And I've never heard of people going through Cairo who are coming from the Sudan having this home visit. Why just people from Egypt?

OMG......

This is soooo true! My husband is amazed at how no one here really cares about stupid things like they do there. I think it is because there is no work giving each other too much time to "entertain" themselves with other peoples lives. What a freaking waste of time.

I also think home visits are a way of checking that your husband/fiance does not have another wife and kids... especially its not formal marriage between them

Interesting point. I never thought of that one. I mean what if he did have another wife, or even three other wives? It's accepted in Egypt and legal but what would they do, even if the petitioner knew about it and was ok with it? (totally NOT my situation btw. lol. )

If the marriage is recognized in the U.S., then the beneficiary would be ineligible for a visa as polygyny is unlawful in the U.S.

I read it somewhere don't remember where

Even if the first marriage (or second or third) wasn't in the US? I know I'm getting technical but this has always made me wonder...if the Egyptian had not married the previous wives at the Ministry of Justice then the marriage(s) are not recognized by the US, which would mean the polygamy factor wouldn't be a factor right? Maybe this is too legal for this board but it fascinates me. The way people who practice polygamy in the US get around it is by not registring the marriage and instead only having a mosque thing instead.

Never thought of that. Makes sense though


very true!

If the marriage isn't recognized in the U.S., then I don't see how having multiple wives (Islamically only) would make one ineligible for a visa. In fact, I'm sure it happens all the time - many times probably without the USC wife's knowledge.

That's why they require the certificate of celibacy or soemthing like that (can't remember the exact name) before the interview. It must state that they are not married to be eligible for the visa. The only way around it would be if he was married Islamically but not legally. From what I understand it is frowned upon to do it this way as it usually hurts the woman in the long run (there are islamic reasons too, but I can't quote them now or look them us since I'm at work) It does happen though.

I think the home visits are for multiple reasons.

1. to find out if the marriage/engagement is hidden
2. to verify where the SO lives, that he DOES live there, and he is who he says he is
3. to verify if there are other wives or fiancees
4. to verify if the family is supportive or if anyone has a slip of tongue
5. to verify who the neighbors are...to see..investigate if there are associations that are less than honorable (terrorism wise)

I know for us...his parents know of us. We have chosen NOT to have a formal engagement in Egypt as its not acceptable in our case (for reasons I'll not disclose) and i know his neighbors will not know of me...but his entire family does. If parents dont know of the relationship or an age gap thats a flag im sure. If he was married in Egypt and neighbors dont know...flag...marriage in Egypt is a huge deal. Im sure there are many reasons...but none of which I can say are worth that long of a wait as some of you have gone through. Just my opinion.

That certificate of celibacy makes me laugh though. How can anyone really prove that? Yeah they can prove they are single, but that they are celibate?

I don't think they are looking for it because it is legal or not, buu t to see if his intentions to USC are true ie. if they have another wife or woman living there not good

Wasn't there someone with a fiance from Pakistan a year or so ago that found out her fiance was married after the embassy did some checking? How horrible!

about why just they make home visit in Egypt or why just Egyptian people you have to know that the American Citizen section at the USA embassy is kinda like a clean version of hell even to American people so they don't like Egyptian so much especially Egyptian guys they think all of Egyptian guys just want to use American women to move to the USA
and about they make that home visit to find out if he did have another wife, or even three other wives ... i think they can find out by many ways not just asking his neighbors
don't forget he will give all of his papers to the USA embassy so they can find out if he is married to another woman or not

What kind of records are kept for Islamic marriages?

Good one!

My understanding is they are doing the home visits (some) thru Morocco now also

Well marrying in egypt or any other foreign country you just have to respect how they do things. In arab customs the immediate family has to approve of the bride usually because of family respect. They want to make sure she will keep respect to the family name thats what our "happy family" motto is. They dont want to accept americans marrying with egyptians they just dont like it same as americans marrying with indians. They like their own culture matched up with another person with same heritage and beliefs. It's not my personal opinion, im just stating the mentality behind it all. Neighbors usually are long line relatives if you are from the village or small city.

I dont think they really care if the male egyptian citizen is married to 4 women. They dont care about americans british, etc.. It's horrible they just want to check for any complications egypt might get from USA because of the American citizen.

I'm just thinking it's a good thing they didn't do a home visit for our visa bc we would have been denied

His father still doesn't know and I'm not really sure about his mother (she's out of it bc of stress and the complications with the father). The rest of the family knows but not all of them have met me, only 5 or 6 (I was only there 4 days with very little warning). All of his friends knew he talked to a sweetheart everyday, and knew I wasn't Egyptian, but were very confused about where I came from (we talked in French and sometimes English or Arabic, so they thought I was in Europe but weren't sure where). He wasn't very upfront about it bc he was worried he wouldn't get it and dodged around the questions alot, which is very hard to do in that culture . They all knew he had applied for a visa, they all knew he was going to leave eventually, but that is about all the information his neighbors would have been able to give. A few, but a very few, knew about him recieving things from the US consulate, but not that it was for a fiance visa. Aparently there was a rumor going around that he was married and that's why he always answered my calls, but he just didn't respond to those types of questions. *shrug* I think the home visit is a pretty sh!tty way of making a decission like that.

Ummm you may want to delete some of that. ^^^^^^^^^^^ JMO but that's not something you should discuss openly like that. It doesn't sound real good and you know ppl around here gossip amongst themselves. You really don't want to be fodder.

Sound advice, Moody. After I read that post, those thoughts crossed my mind.

which post?

How exactly did you get a visa with no ap when his parents do not even know about you and there are people here on ap who s whole family including the parents knows about the wife. This did not even set off alarm bells in your head at all? Egypt makes no sense to me. They give people who know the family ap and you , who have no relationship with his mom and dad sail through. tamara loves adam...the same age...and a real love story languised months and months...i just dont understand this stupid consular system and i could not remotely dream of having to deal with egypt ... It just seems weird to me.. Oh well...i guess they have their reasons. They probably figured since you met him in france that it was more of a legitamate relationship because you met him outside of egypt

Are you sure Sarah? because that s not exactly what i saw. The mom and dad have to. If they dont, drama insues until A they calm down or B the couple breaks up. I do not know exactly where all these villiagers are that you are talking about. Most Algerians I saw were not too upset if their child married outside of the culture. the conflict came into play when it was perhaps determined that this was a real marriage and not getting papers to improve their life... What the heck did they all say about you being christian? How are you christian anyway? Is your mom european or american?

it depends jenn... unless it is a legal marriage with papers in Algeria,none. its when the spouses decided to legitamise their marriage in the courthouse that people find out about it.

with shias , they can muta and marry for a day or a week. some sunnis do a quazi muta ( the so called egyptian pleasure marriages)
An islamic marriage contract is supposed to have a contract and a maher.. When you legally marry in tunisia, they do kind of an islamic contract with witnesses and a dowry and a split of assets...


But the reality is that a guy married to an american can go back home,islamically marry someone else, get her pregnant and go back to the usa and no one is the wiser. Unless he registers the marriage with the city hall, a fatiha is an imam and 2 witnesses and thats it...

Well, I suppose the consulate is not in the business of verifying that the beneficiary does not have any other "unregistered" wives. It is multiple legal wives that would make them ineligible for a visa. Unfortunate though for any woman who gets caught up in this sort of thing.

Its often when the "american wife" is getting left that she finds out that there is someone back home he "married" on one of trips back. this is not common when the guy is a greencard holder. It happens much more frequently when he already has his citizenship and is in a position to petition his new spouse. I have a friend this happened to ( married 7 years ) and she finds out after the divorce that he "married " someone before they even got legally divorced in Morocco. Then a year later the new wife was here in Florida with him, needless to say the american was Pissed...

This is why you cannot just go on what people say. you need to have intimate knowledege of the cultural norms and do not think you are exempt from them.... that way you can really get a feel for what is going on... What people say to you and what is actually going on are two completely different things..... I never ever ever take what anyone says in Algeria to me for granted.

When I told some of my Moroccan friends I was pregnant they STILL question my husbands motives for being with me and state even pregnancy is no guarantee the marriage is legit. AND These are north africans saying this... They know each other and how they think and the only saving grace for me is that i have a long standing and very strong relation with algerian culture that trancends my marriage and lots of true friends there and from his culture that build me up despite my numerous inadequacies ( age, divorce, kids, etc)

Yes Amy there have been more than one case where the Pakistani male had hidden a marriage and children from the USC. Some have been K1s and even a few were K3/CR 1.

My spouses family is old time friends with my family from my Ima. All my algerian family members in France they are christian and 2 uncles (brothers) are christians in Constantine maybe you know the church there i think you might know where i'm talking about maybe? Both of my parents are algerian and naturalized. They had visa papers soo easy back then my dad came here within 3 months !!!! I didn't want anybody to know we are dating until i was sure i want to marry him so when my MIL heard "his future wife" was from america she thought he had a "typical blonde haired woman" (no offense to any) and she said dont bring her here because i dont accept her as my daughter. His family didn't want any french or american He told her it was me and she was so happy. My father and his mother wanted us to marry from the beginning before we started dating so i guess she didn't care that i was christian. My father is muslim and my mother is christian i get the christianity from her. Maybe you can't understand the mentality because its a old fashioned set of thinking. Now days maybe they will accept but sometimes they are not happy. Sometimes they wanted that same typical wife to speak full arabic, not to have so much education, etc...I don't want to offend anyone but this is the true mentality if you ask any mother or father there. Sometimes you will come across one family who only cares for the sons or daughters happiness. I personally I would want my child to marry in Algeria.

I don't think this is limited to Algerian (or MENA) thinking. We've heard many a story right here of how American families sometimes have a hard time accepting the foreign spouse. It's always hoped that they come to love you as they get to know you and see how you treat their child.

me also i was scared of my algerian spouse if he had a wife or kids in tunisia or morrocco that i didnt know about. Young women in the age 17-20 wheeeww we have to watch out for older men who might have other wives and children and theyre taking us as a mistress or a new wife to leave their old life.




You are so right

Is this a K-1 thing? My husband didn't have to submit a certificate of celibacy at all.

^^^I think it's more a Morocco thing. Egypt doesn't require a cert. of celibacy.

That is exactly right. If you are going through Egypt and you met online you're sol and you will get a home visit and a long azz ap UNLESS you have special circumstances like you've lived in Egypt before or you are Egyptian, etc. As for insinuating that polar's story isn't a "real" love story...I don't think the length of AP is remotely related to the quality of the love story.

But back to Polar's experience...that's kind of my point. Here is a couple who's neighbors/family know nothing practically of their marriage and yet they sailed through so what does exactly the home visit prove? IMHO you either visit EVERYONE or NO ONE. I know I revoked all rights when I petitioned for someone to come to the US but it's really rubbing me the wrong way how our privacy is invaded time and time again. Big Brother lookin' out for my marriage to see if it's an ok one just makes me wanna puke,...and yes I know it's more to protect the gov't than me but until you're in this situation and have gone through what we are going through it's very hard to feel the creepy crawly invasive feeling it gives you. I mean they might as well have just assigned someone to stay in our bed and watch our reactions for Pete's sakes.

I live in Egypt with my husband. We don't know our neighbors and they don't know us. I'm sure some of them have seen me and of course see that I am foreign. But what could they say except, "yes, I have seen a foreign woman in that apartment. We live in my husband's new apartment which is not in the area of his mother and father. So again, this is not my husband's old neighborhood. A home study here wouldn't do a lot good in my opinion. The doorman and his wife and children could say "yes, I have seen her." Big deal.
When I return to the states (soon) to plan the deliver of our first child, my husband will return to stay with his mother and father. The people in that building probably have never seen me.
Of course, his family knows me very well. I see them all the time.
We didn't have a big, horn honking wedding in Egypt due to the US restrictions. We married outside of Egypt so we didn't have the big wedding parade which is famous in Egypt. I imagine the whole apartment building knows that there is a foreign woman living among them because Yes, the Egyptians like to gossip.
So, what exactly would a home study prove about our marriage? In my opinion, nothing. It would be a waste of their time, money and energy. That's my two cents on the subject. I'm glad to know that it is a possibility. I'll inform my husband and the family of this possibility just so they don't freak out and think they are in trouble or something. People here are definitely afraid of the police.

how very, very false, and ethnocentric.

Good luck on your birth!!!!!

I agree that babies arent the proof that a relationship is valid. I know a woman who got a guy a greencard, had two of his kids and he left her eventually and said that he married her for papers. He would go back to his home country and cheat on her like mad. I think if a person is deceitful, having kids doesnt make them a good person.

One of our israeli friends (who was born in the US - israeli parents) is dating an american girl, shes perfectly nice and going through the conversion (to judaism) process. Orthodox conversion at that. His parents will not accept her and will not come to the wedding! (as of now) They are pissed because she isnt israeli or at least jewish from birth. I sure hope they come around.

My mother probably would be not accepting if I was a lesbian, or married another race. Its really sad. I will be happy with whoever my children marry (as long as they are good peeps)

its in all the former french colonies.. certificate celebetaire

Is it common to convert? I mean I know that girl from Sex in the City did it but don't you have to go through a lot to convince the community or the rabbi that you're sincere? I grew up and still live in a predominantly Jewish town and in high school the boys who were jewish would not date the girls who weren't because their families wouldn't accept it if it progressed to something serious. I was told it is because you can only be jewish if your mother is jewish. Is that true or did the boys just not really like me? lol

Shiksa (Yiddish: שיקסע) or shikse, is a Yiddish word that has moved into English usage, mostly in North American Jewish culture, that is used as a pejorative or mock-pejorative term for a non-Jewish woman. Traditionally, the word shiksa is an ethnic slur used to refer to a non-Jewish woman to whom a Jewish man is attracted, or an attractive non-Jewish woman who is dating or married to a Jewish man.

The word shiksa is derived from the Hebrew term sheketz, which means "loathsome", "abomination", "unclean", "dirty", "rodent", or "lizard", depending on the translator.[1][2]

Despite its etymology, the term shiksa is widely used and accepted in the United States, where it is often used in a humorous way. Nevertheless, some consider the word highly offensive.


[edit] Pop cultural uses
In The Jazz Singer, Jakie's mother says, "Maybe he's fallen in love with a shiksa."
Comedian and social critic Lenny Bruce wrote a short story on the subject of shiksas.
The term figures prominently in Philip Roth's novel Portnoy's Complaint, a Jewish man's narrative about, among other things, his sexual exploits with several "shiksas".
In the Saturday Night Live sketch in which John Belushi portrays Vito Corleone in a therapy group, one of the other patients, a flight attendant played by Laraine Newman, says that while making a dessert, she overheard her boyfriend's mother say, "Look, the shiksa's making us a Presbyterian pie."
On Mork and Mindy, Mork (Robin Williams) often refers to Mindy (Pam Dawber) as a shiksa and in one episode ("Stark Raving Mork") he says her nose is "shiksa city".
In the 1980 remake of The Jazz Singer, Molly Bell (Lucie Arnaz) tells Jesse Robin (Neil Diamond), "I may be a shiksa, but I know the meaning of Yom Kippur".
An episode of Moonlighting is titled "Come Back Little Shiksa", referring to Maddie Hayes (portrayed by Cybill Shepherd).
In "The Serenity Now" episode of Seinfeld a number of Jewish characters show attraction towards Elaine. To explain this, George says that she has "shiksappeal" and that Jewish men like women who "don't remind them of their mothers".
In an episode of the The Nanny, Fran Fine describes Maggie, the eldest girl in her care, as a "shiksa goddess" to a Jewish boy she wants Maggie to date. In a later episode, when Fran tries to fake a heart attack, Maggie explains that "Jewish guilt" doesn't work on shiksas.
Dr. Julianna Cox, the chief medical examiner on Homicide: Life on the Street refers to herself to Detective John Munch as "no ordinary shiksa" following the examination of a dead Jewish victim.
In the Chicago Hope episode "Heartbreak", Camille (Roxanne Hart), who was raised Catholic, is speaking at the shivah of a rabbi friend. She says that "Rabbi Taubler married me and my husband. He used to joke that I was his first shiksa." Her remark is greeted with smirks from some of the congregation and head-shaking from others.
In an episode of Sex and the City, when Harry Goldenblatt tells his girlfriend, Charlotte York, that he must marry a Jew, he describes her as a "shiksa goddess". She eventually converts to Judaism.
In the "Disco Inferno" episode of Cold Case, Detective Lilly Rush, played by Kathryn Morris, is called a shiksa by one of the victims' mothers.
In the song "Pretty Fly For a Rabbi", Weird Al Yankovic remarks of the temple's new rabbi, "Even shiksas think he's swell".
Shiksas are mentioned in "You Won't Succeed on Broadway", a song from the musical Spamalot, with the line, "You may even have some shiksas making stews!"
In "A Proportional Response", an episode of The West Wing, during an argument Josh calls C. J. a "paranoid Berkeley shiksa feminista".
In an episode of Queer As Folk, Melanie Marcus describes her non-Jewish partner, Lindsay Peterson, as a "shiksa goddess" after Lindsay has been unfaithful.
In an episode of The Suite Life of Zack and Cody, London (Brenda Song) tells Maddie (Ashley Tisdale) that she celebrates Hanukkah even though she's not Jewish. Her explanation: "Miss out on eight days of presents? Not this shiksa." (Ironically, Maddie, an Irish-Catholic character, is played by a Jewish actress.)
Jason Robert Brown's musical The Last Five Years features a song titled "Shiksa Goddess" that explores the main character Jamie's desire for a non-Jewish woman.
In the parody film Date Movie, Roz refers to Julia, her son's non-Jewish fiancée, as a "mushuggener goyim shiksa".
On their recent cd, In Defense of the Genre, Say Anything have a song entitled "Shiksa (Girlfriend)".
In an episode of House M.D. (4x06) one of the new trial team members states that "shiksas are for practice

It could be. I have a Jewish male friend who will "mess" around with non Jewish girls but if he's wanting something serious/someone to bring home to mama he dates Jewish girls. He's not even really all that religious.