What is the chances of being successful in applying for I751 with a waiver if the alien spouse was the one who divorce the USC spouse?

It used to be, before the Immigration Reform of 1986, that when states required sufficient "cause" as grounds for divorce, (now most states honour no-fault grounds) there was what was referred to as a "Race to the Courthouse" as the alien was required to initiate the divorce in order to be able to claim that removal from the country would be a hardship.

Now, with no-fault laws honoured by many states it is impossible to determine cause for the marriage termination and as such it does not matter which party initiates the divorce.

I would sort of hope that, if the alien came here on the good graces of the efforts and time and expense of a US Citizen, and they didn't like the relationship, rather than wanting to become a citizen, the immigrant should consider returning to their country of origin on their own, or be deported. Sorry...but if things didn't work out with your ticket to the US, have some pride and move along. Or contribute something substantial to the society or economy or well-being of the US, in some way...certainly don't be a fiscal charge.

Why should the OP automatically consider returning to their home country just because the marriage didn't work out? Do you presume to think the OP only wanted a ticked to the US? Then you suggest that the OP contribute to society or to the economy...how else do you propose that one do this without lifting conditions? Sounds like you're making a judgment call where none was asked for. But then, that's VJ for you.

To the OP...I hope you have a competent family law attorney, one who can answer these questions for you. I'm sorry things have not worked out for you...best of luck with whatever you decide.

Thank you guys for all your replies, I appreciate it. I just cant stay married and be miserable.

"Sounds like you're making a judgment call where none was asked for."

Absolutely. When the basis for the immigration is marriage, and the marriage didn't work out, then why should the immigrant have special standing to seek citizenship? The process should not be unlike that for any other person from overseas seeking citizenship, a green card, or whatever.

Each party to a relationship has a responsibility to and for the relationship. The issue of citizenship is ENTIRELY different from the issue of marital bliss. And they are ABSOLUTELY NOT inter-related. Just because an alien marries a USC and comes here on that basis, are you saying that they should have special consideration for the purposes of a green card and/or citizenship? What about the tens of thousands of OTHER potential immigrants who DIDN'T get married and that way get a ticket to the US? Why should the unhappily married immigrant have any greater rights?

Judgment? YOU BET! That's why the immigration process is so difficult. There are so many people who want to come here, and just because they hooked up with a citizen who ended up marrying them does not bestow upon them any greater rights than any other immigrant.

But you have NO idea what the circumstances are in the OP's marriage. How can you lay claim to all that you've posted when you know nothing about their marriage???

The circumstances of their marriage are TOTALLY irrelevant. Once again...the issue of marital bliss does NOT have anything whatsoever to do with legal immigration. If it were the case, then marriage would be an automatic ticket to immigration. And that's NOT the case! A green card is NOT guaranteed, and if the marriage doesn't work out and the immigrant doesn't yet have the green card, well, too bad. The immigrant is no longer entitled to ANYTHING by riding on the coattails of the marriage, good, bad or indifferent.

Look: if the marriage was the basis for immigration, and the marriage didn't work out, then the immigrant must figure out another way to get their green card. End of story. In my view, an alien shouldn't get a green card just because of some sad story about a failed relationship. Didn't work out? Back to square 1. Marriage is not an automatic ticket for a green card. Period.

Unfortunately, you are confusing the two issues: first, there is the marriage, and immigration based on the marriage; then, there is the issue of immigration if the marriage didn't work out. One has nothing to do with the other...the big issue is immigration and green card...it can be satisfied if the parties are married, and by way of the marriage, adjustment of status is reached. But if there is a dead end there, that's too bad. If the alien wants a green card, they go through other processes. Does that make sense?

Hold on a second, the OP asked what are the chances of being successful "removing conditions" from the conditional green card. The alien does have the right to finish the immigration process without the US spouse in the event of divorce, once a condiitional green card has been awarded.



Well this contraverts the statutes (the INA) and that is the legal foundation for immigration!

Who said anything about being a fiscal charge?? Just because the marriage did not work out as YOU would have it, doesn't mean that the marriage wasn't entered into in good faith. people change, and sometimes it is better to divorce than to stay togeter. there are provisions in the law that are there to keep one party or another from using the green card as leverage to keep ones spouse in line as it is often referred to . that is why the majority of the states have " IRRECONCILABLE DIFFERENCES " as a cause of the divorce. in no way should a divorce have any basis for a green card denial. EXCEPT IN CASES OF FRAUD , if the alien spouse divorces in 1 or 2 weeks of approval, then it MIGHT make a difference . but it takes alot to prove it. not just saying it is fraudulent. AL

Nope Is your husband's name Mike

"Well this contraverts the statutes (the INA) and that is the legal foundation for immigration!"

How so????? If someone starts the immigration process on the basis of a marriage, and the marriage doesn't work out, why on earth would the initial basis for immigration be the mainline for a green card? The immigrant is not unlike any other seeking a green card.

For example, the premise is that you are able to get a green card if you meet all the requirements for immigration secondary to the marriage (and not even that is a guarantee!). If the marriage falls apart before you get a green card, what special rights obtain?

mtracksport does make a good point, though. The problem I have is that there is much room for manipulation when an immigrant wants a green card - and once they get a foot in the door, why should the failed marriage afford the immigrant any more special status that any other immigrant might have, just because of a marriage? The "public charge" aspect concerns the Affidavit of Support, and the extent to which a sponsor must ensure that the immigrant maintains a minimum poverty level with respect to charges incurred for certain public services. The affidavit of support is not an open checkbook by any stretch of the imagination, and only requires the sponsor to pay for certain services. Despite some of the cases referenced where the affidavit of support was used to determine spousal support, it's really NOT such a guideline, and was not intended as such. Plus, it is MY contention that an immigrant should demonstrate some benefit to the society of which he or she wants to become a part, or make some sort of showing that they can support themselves. I have heard that Canadian immigration policies have such a basis.

speaking not about the ins and outs of the law (which others know, and can speak about, far better than I), but from another viewpoint -

the immigrant IS unlike any other seeking a green card, if they left their entire life behind, closed bank accounts, quit jobs, spent pots and pots of cash on the whole dire process and airfares and shipping and whatever else... it's far too simplistic to say 'just go back home'; in fact if they were sincere in entering the marriage this would be harder, as everything they have done up to that point was a one way street: entering America, and staying

I don't think that should give anyone automatic rights to anything (and that's why the current processes exist) but to pretend there's no difference here is farcical, and short-sighted

"...if they left their entire life behind, closed bank accounts, quit jobs, spent pots and pots of cash on the whole dire process and airfares and shipping and whatever else..."

Granted, many immigrants leave their lives behind (family, loved ones, whatever it is they leave behind), but many do so because there is a HUGE incentive to do so apart from the loving nature of a relationship with a USC. Well, maybe I'm a bit jaded...people do many things for love. On the other hand, if that's the case, then the relationship is worth working on. At the same time, however, from what I've seen, anyway, it's not the immigrant who makes the lion's share of sacrifices, it's the US Citizen changing their lives forever, banking on the relationship, spending pots and pots of cash, the airfare, and whatever else. And then to have the relationship go south for whatever reason? Who bears that risk? Shucks, just let the immigrant stay...just because? People want to come to the US by the BOATLOADS! There are thousands of potential immigrants from all over the world. That brings me back to my initial question - why should we afford special deference to someone who happened to gamble on a marital relationship (at best it was in earnest...lots of times, it's a pretty good bet for a prospective immigrant who wants a life they perceive as better in the US)? It was a risk for BOTH the immigrant and the USC. The USC invests a lot, too, often times more than the immigrant.

I just don't think that the immigrant should receive any special dispensation, consideration or deference that is any different from any other prospective immigrant if things don't work out.

I don't even know what to say, except HOW VERY IGNORANT!!

I'm very sorry to hear about your situation . Immigration issues aside, is there no hope for your marriage? have you seeked counseling, or guide from your church? Maybe make a 2-3 weeks trip home to think things over?

Saludos,
Caro

Traditions Way - hope you will find the right answer to your question, and the help you need to get your happiness and joy back in life! Best wishes!

StillThePrettiest - exactly! Every single thing the migrating spouse does is a "one way street" for one single reason: love and marriage

tito - what are you bitter about??? Have you left your life behind when you moved to US to be with your beloved spouse? Regretting it? Are you the USC spouse who spent some money on your migrating wife/husband's move to the US? Regretting it? Get over it! Or start a thread and ask for some support on these forums. It might help you.

But , whatever you do... do not insult us who migrated here for one and one reason only: because we love our husband or wife and we willingly gave up EVERYTHING to start from zero here. Do not put us in the same category with people committing visa fraud! And do not assume that every failed marriage screams "visa fraud". Like someone said before me... you don't know what the OP has been through in her marriage.

And, do not insult us by diminishing our sacrifice - "(family, loved ones, whatever it is they leave behind)" - as if that's not enough!!! How about: OUR WHOLE LIFE... people, land, beauty, customs, work, money... and a lot more! Stop being so arrogant! America is not a perfect place to be (just like no place is), and had it not been for love... many of us wouldn't be here. Everything was better back home! Everything! But I am willing to work hard to make this country my new "home". That is the choice I made. And I made that choice because my husband calls this country home.

I now have a 2 yr Green Card. Haven forbid, should my marriage fail - I think I've "earned" every right to try and make life for myself, on my own here, should I choose to do so - USCIS approval pending, of course

Get off your self-righteous throne thinking you are called to deny me that right - even if only on this forum!

Phew!... now I am ready to move on, to read other threads!
(waves a big hello to all NON-fraudsters out there)

"I think I've "earned" every right to try and make life for myself, on my own here, should I choose to do so - USCIS approval pending, of course"

So, you've "earned" your status...notwithstanding the things you left behind. This only begs the question...if what you left behind was so valuable, and things didn't work out here, what is there about "here" in the US that is so worthy that you have to "earn" your presence? Again the question...what's keeping you here? Not a question for you in particular, but a question for those who have the questions! You sort of jumped around in circles. So, yeah, there IS a value of being in the US, one worth risking it all for. Well, what's the risk to the immigrant who leaves, especially if the door is always open to return to those things so beloved.

Sorry, but the post sort of bolsters my point.

Arrogance? Sure. There are procedures in effect for immigration, and one of the means for lawful immigration is marriage. Marriage should be the end-all, of course...because love is stronger than all. But take that out of the equation, why should any immigrant have any special status just because they were "lucky" enough to marry a USC? A little harsh???? Probably. But in the risk-benefit analysis of the situation, it's the immigrant who seems to have the most to gain however and whichever way the relationship turns out...if things don't work out, their life in their own country is still available to them. On the other hand, it's the USC who has the most to lose if things don't work out...seems to me almost universal that the great majority of costs and expenses are borne by the USC...the USC stands to be subject to support costs if things don't work out...the USC can't just toss everything and move home...the USC has got to support the ex if things don't work out. Bitter? Nah. Realistic.

Welcome to the United States! Glad you are of the view that you've earned your presence here, and your presence is something precious and of value, not some right.

Tito ~ We don't know very much about the OP's circumstances and none of us here have a right to judge them. If you can help the OP by answering her question then that's great, otherwise I respectfully request that you please keep your rather misguided opinions to yourself. Thank you.

tito - what I said in my earlier post was in response to your sending all migrating spouses back from where they came from, saying that we don't have right to stay in the US should marriage fail, as if our efforts to build life for ourselves, together with our USC spouse, doesn't count. And remember, I am talking about bona fide marriages, and genuine break ups. That's what I mean by I've earned my right to continue on my own.

When I left, I didn't leave any "back up plans" in case my marriage doesn't work - I gave it all and now I want to settle down and live. And... no, I don't feel like going back where I would have to start all over yet again. We, the migrating spouses lost a lot by first move across Pacific, Atlantic, or whatever boarder we crossed. Why would we want to lose again by uprooting once more?

There is a value in being in a fulfilling marriage. That's what's worth risking it all for. That's why we are in US. Both spouses are supposed to equally gain by being happily married. When they are not - I guess they feel things are not working out so they divorce. The door to those things we so loved back home was closed when we moved here. Our life back home is NOT "available" to us any more. We sold homes, quit jobs, closed bank accounts, moved children, furniture, etc. etc.

We all spent thousands of dollars on trips to visit, on shipping cost and all that. So what if USC spouse ends up covering some costs?Why is your money more valued than mine? Just because you are a USC and I am an "alien"? You afraid you might end up paying for support? Well... if you (I mean: a USC) figure out you can't stay married, please DO move on and let us "aliens" adjust status on our own and work to support ourselves. We are not stupid or incapable just because we are from another country. Hope you don't mind that! Because that's what realisitc is! There are smart and capable people everywhere! Just let us be!

"If you can help the OP by answering her question then that's great, otherwise I respectfully request that you please keep your rather misguided opinions to yourself. Thank you."

Forgive me - I thought that this was a discussion on the OP's options, when things don't work out. How or why you feel that my opinions are 'misguided' involves a judgment on your part. They are, after all, opinions, with which some might agree, and some might not agree. My issue, and one salient to this very discussion, is the seeming right of entitlement to particular immigration status based merely on marriage, and it's just not clear to me that such entitlement exists or should exist simply because of a relationship of the type underlying the attempt to immigrate.

People talk of all the tremendous sacrifices who come here from overseas seeking (I) a wonderful, loving marital relationship; (II) a life that, in the eyes of some, presents greater opportunitites than those that might exist in their native land; or (III) a combination of the foregoing. I just don't understand the situation where, if the marriage doesn't work out, the immigrant or proposed immigrant does not want to consider returning home, and is, instead, bent on securing immigration status. Is that such a misguided inquiry? Or one of significant import to these threads? This is not bitterness, or disdain, for anything or anyone. A question that makes people defensive, but that nobody seems ready or willing to answer. Sorry if that tweaks the sensibilities of some, but it's a valid line of questioning, and one that those who follow immigration issues that are so prevalent in today's news do consider. I'm no super-patriotic U S Citizen, and I don't want to close the doors to the outside world, but it just seems odd how people long and yearn for the things they supposedly sacrificed to come here, and if things don't work out here, their main concern is getting legal status in the US rather than contemplating the return home. I guess the sacrifice is worth it after all, regardless and irrespective of the motive, reason or relationship.

"Why would we want to lose again by uprooting once more?"

I don't know. It seems like, assuming one spends their entire life in a particular country or place, and then moves for a couple of years to a strange land to pursue a relationship, if that relationship dissolves, it would be a LOT easier to return to the place where you spent most of your life, where you're familiar with customs, work ethic, and so on and so forth, than to try to figure it all out from scratch in a new place. There is comfort in familiarity. So, there doesn't really seem that much that was lost in the process for the intended immigrant if things don't work out.

tito, have you ever been out of the U.S. for more than just a vacation? I spent 54 months fighting in vietnam during the war, 36 months in el-salvador fighting and training troops, 1yr in panama chasing Noriega, 6mo in somalia, finally ending my military career in Iraq during desert storm. I have traveled all over the world and have found out one thing that is really quite the deal. America is not looked upon by others as we look upon ourselves. Australia is beauitiful and the economy is good, Canada the same way. England needs more land but what island doesn't?? Most people in these countries do not care either way whether they immigrate to the U.S. or not. The countries where the economy is bad , yes . America is better. when it comes to feeding your family and educating them , why not come here??I will gladly give my life to defend the constitution and my way of life and would never even think about giving up my citizenship but as was earlier said , it is not for us to judge based on the info we have. the husband may be a abuser. would you have her stay in the marriage? we are a nation of immigrants. no one can say their families came here for anything other than a better life. // LIVE AND LET LIVE//

First, I commend you for your commitment to honor and the dignity of the rights and freedoms we have in the US...and for putting your life on the line for that commitment. I envy your courage, and salute you.

Indeed, I have lived elsewhere...in Europe, in the middle east, in Mexico, and also in Cuba as part of a humantarian and religious mission I started over 12 years ago. I do see that, while some view the US with disdain, many do so out of envy and the fact that the benefits of the US outweigh the complaints (in most cases, anyway). The fox didn't like the grapes either because they were certain to have been sour. I learned that in 1st grade. But I also learned that the grass isn't always greener on the other side. Perhaps those in a military context do see more of the disdain for the US than do civilians living among the people who admire the US and will do and say anything to get here, whether European or Latin American or Middle Eastern. While there may be chauvanism on the part of the non-US citizen, there is a curiosity and a desire to have and own what I call sort of the "badges" of our system (whether it is a pair of shoes, or a car, or whatever material thing that it might be, or something less tangible, whatever).

But I don't see the harm in wanting to go back to the country of your life, or the return being an option...and there's no guarantee of citizenship just because you married a US citizen. Indeed, there may be and are instances of abuse or other tragic results that obtain from no fault on the part of the immigrant. I'm just saying MERELY that it is an option to return home, and just because someone had a relationship with a US citizen, that, in itself, should not (in my not so humble opinion...) stand as a gateway to citizenship in the US. Yet, that is seemingly a prevailing view among many immigrants faced with a failed relationship with a USC. Is there an entitlement? I don't think so. And I don't think there should be.

I don't know where you're looking, but that is ridiculous enough to be farcical... even my fiancé agrees that in this situation, it's all win for him; he's paid the original filing fee (luckily, still at $170 when we filed), and has bought a house, but was going to do that anyway, and at the moment has a tenant in it who's covering his entire mortgage... he will move from a share house where he's not all that happy, and into his own place, nearer his job, close enough to his parents (without being too close ), and everything will be rosy... he can't wait
me? the first, and biggest thing is that I've agreed to move, to a country I really have NO interest in (apart from my SO, which is of course considerable, but in the scheme of things I'd really rather stay here in London), I've resigned from TWO jobs, one of which was really going places after 18 months of hard work, and am leaving behind a small business I started a couple of years ago and which is also really going places; I've paid for police checks in two countries, given fingerprints, scheduled vaccinations and medical checks and filled in all manner of forms and paid every fee associated therewith... I'm about to shell out to ship some furniture and other stuff, and will do that a second time when I return to Aus and go through my storage space
when I fly to the US - which will be via Australia to see my family, since - again thanks to archaic laws - I can't marry there and have my family present at my wedding - I will cover the costs of my flights, London -> Sydney -> LA/wherever
in the meantime, I'm looking down the barrel of at least a few months without work, once I arrive in the US, thanks to the archaic laws that keep that separate to the visa, while the interest rates on my mortgage in Sydney continue to climb - I'm paying a hair under 9% interest at present

now, I DON'T MIND doing these things, because I want to be with my SO, and this is what we decided to do
but if I got there, and after a year it went south, but I'd established myself AGAIN, and got a job that was good, and started making friends, and so on, then yes: I think I should be treated differently to other potential immigrants
note, again, that I'm not talking about cases of visa fraud; that's completely different
(ironically, of course, were that to happen, I'd be out of there like a shot, as there are about fifty-seven places I'd rather live, but that's not pertinent to the discussion)

and I'll also add: you pontificate about immigrants 'earning' their right to be in the US, but you don't even seem to consider that many MANY US citizens have never 'earned' their right to anything... and that's ok; luck of the draw and all that... but the only reason many people start out in life with so many benefits and advantages is the completely random reason that they happened to be born in a rich country; they did NOTHING to earn that
something else that's not strictly relevant to the discussion, but it sticks in my craw every time I hear it, and working in development education and campaigning, you better believe I hear it a LOT

I must say that my OH has to look for a place to live and has paid for our wedding. We pay for our own flights and I have paid the deposit for the wedding, all of the UK based expenses (interview, medical, vacs, flights, cat...). Again, I am uprooting my whole life to another country while he merely moves out from his aunt's house (which at the age of 25 isn't really as big a deal as it could be). I think it is unfair to assume that all non-USCs have nothing to do or no sacrifices to make... I feel that I am going through a hella lot more than my OH in terms of sacrifice but it is for all the right reasons.

And a hearty welcome and for what it's worth my warmest personal regards and best wishes for all the success in the world! I don't know what the statistics reflect, but the courts are filled to the brim with examples of immigrant spouses seeking a divorce at the same time they're doing anything and everything to get a green card, and their relationship (such as it might be) is or was a very thinly veiled sham and nothing more. And those immigrants want the same protection under the immigration laws of the US as others who are well intended, who do give up a lot, and who do have a vested interested in the future of the relationship. Unfortunately, and this from dealing with colleagues in the field of immigration, I think the odds are more likely than not that those seeking special dispensation based on a failed marriage grabbed the brass ring and got here under the good graces of a USC. I'm not talking about those who are vested, whether emotionally OR financially. My criticism goes towards the multitudes who are not, and who, like it or not, seem to comprise the majority of divorced or divorcing immigrants looking for their green card.

This discussion concerns a divorced or divorcing immigrant, not a happy, vested, interested one, committed not simply to the acquisition of immigration rights, but to a fruitful relationship. I do NOT imply either way that the OP's situation is suspect or genuine...I simply suggested an alternative and an option - the option of going back home. And really...if a marriage fails...the immigration shouldn't be automatic, there should be a requirement of a greater showing of the bona fides of the relationship. As it stands, there are many examples even here on these pages of immigrant spouses running tearfully to authorities claiming that they are victims of an abusive relationship so that they can self-apply for a green card when, according to the USC spouse who did everything to make the relationship and immigration happen, swears that it was a sham from the beginning. Of whom should authorities be suspicious? Why should it be automatic for anyone, just because of the marriage? This is the question I have, and the intent of my comment was to spur a discussion, not raise the hair on everyone's back and make everyone defensive.

Option? This doesn't sound like an option to me...



Notwithstanding, there already is the option. But I believe your perception of that option not being exercised is skewed by the fact that those aliens that choose to return to their homeland don't need to post questions on how to do that on a messageboard.

tito, immigration law lets a person whose marriage was entered into good faith and terminated file to remove conditions on his or her own. We are talking about cases without fraud, and you're insisting the person should leave the country because the USC is the only person who put in time or effort or sacrificed anything. Which ignores that moving across the world does upend one's life, and a person who did that and resettled might not want do that twice.

With all due respect, that the foreign spouse hasn't given up anything only makes sense if you view the foreign spouse as a piece of property the USC bought.

Fortunately immigration law doesn't agree. If they find that the marriage was entered into primarily for immigration benefit alone, then the person has no right to stay here. But marriages fail, for any number of reasons, and it isn't in anyone's interesting to make someone stay in a failed or abusive marriage to "earn" permanent residency.

i believe that the reason WHY Tito is saying all this is maybe because he went through an experience in the past, maybe got burned by it and still has hard feelings over it.


Settle down, every situation is different, and if that is the case that you've had a bad experience, learn to forgive, because when you do that, you'll feel alot better, and probably won't generate such negativity.

Not at all...but I have seen repeated examples of the situation, and in discussing the issue with a colleague who specializes in immigration law, have come to learn that, despite the appearance of well intended immigrants, the primary concern is, for the most part, the green card first, and the relationship second. There are agencies and even attorneys out there who specialize in assisting prospective immigrants attain a green card, and regardless of the circumstances at home, make claims of abuse that have absolutely no basis, yet the immigrant gets to self-apply apart from the marital relationship. Again, I'm NOT talking about the instances of a genuine, loving, relationship, because from what I am told by colleagues, those instances are actually in the minority; rather, I'm talking about the situation where the immigrant has nothing to lose and is not vested in the relationship, comes to the US with a 'take it or leave it' attitude, and then runs at the drop of a hat for the green card instead of the opting to return home if things are so bad. I don't know anything about the circumstances of the OP, but if things are so bad, why is returning home NOT an option?

To others who sacrificed their lives back home, I, for one, commend you for the courage, dedication and commitment to the relationship. The stories in this forum are replete with examples of some very burned and scorned USC who are on the short end of the stick, and these same USC are on the hook for 10 years of support, undertook major life changes to make the relationship work, and so on (not that the immigrant didn't, but there was much more to gain from the experience for them...because if that were not the case, then it seems to me that there would not be any question that the first option would be to return home; but, no, the questions here all seem to concern the shortcut to staying!).

And, no, I don't view the relationship as "property" - that is totally putting words in my mouth and attributing to me a thought or feeling or expression I do not hold and have not held; however, I DO view the green card as a PRIVILEGE and NOT a right that becomes vested simply because the immigrant married a USC. There's got to be more to a green card than that!

Again - this is meant to be a civil discussion on this issue, and not to ruffle the feathers of anyone or provoke anyone other than to offer opinions. And mermaid...why isn't going home an option? That is what I really do not understand. If 'home' is so precious, and so tough to give up in order to seek the streets paved with gold here in the US (a metaphor...), if it were me, I'd be outta here. What's the allure? What is the big deal? Why is 'home' not an option????? Please explain.

home IS an option, but it shouldn't be obligatory

as I mentioned above, I'm REALLY not relishing the upcoming move, and all the disruption and cost, partly because I've done it once already, when I moved from Sydney, Australia, to London, more than three years ago... now, as I say, if my current relationship were to fail I canNOT see myself wanting to stay in America under any circumstances, but if it were somewhere I DID actually like, maybe I would wish to stay, not because I didn't like home anymore, but simply because it would be the THIRD major international move I'd be undertaking in a relatively short time
and if, again as I said above, I'd managed to find a job and start making friends and so on, I shouldn't HAVE to give them up and start over for a third time, if I'd entered into the marriage in good faith... the trauma of the break-up would be bad enough; I shouldn't have to give up everything else as well

so: no 'allure', definitely, and the only 'big deal' would be some compassion and understanding maybe being shown to someone who had gone through a hell of a lot and started all over again, and not forcing them to go through it once more

Once again - I wish you the best! The [enter the supreme being of your choice] willing, things will work out perfectly, and I, for one, absolutely support that.

MY issue is the immigrant who comes to the US to marry, things don't work out, they are miserable, come on this forum and complain about citizenship and green cards, yet don't contemplate what would, PERHAPS, be the best option...and that is just going home; or, others who just come here for the green card and feel that they have a right to it, when there is no such right. And BOTH those situations happen quite a bit.

Tito , if it would not be to much of a imposition, what is your story? don't beleive i have seen it before. just curios. it seems to me that you might have gone through something along these lines in the past and might have got burned. if that is the case i hope you can find closure and move on with your life. hatred has a way of building up in a person to the point of self destruction. when i left Viet-Nam i was full of hatred. i had lost ALL of my friends in combat and i kept going back for more. (guilty concience ) 54 months total without not more than 10 days at a time at home and went back because people did not understand what we were fighting for. it took a long time for me to get over it. what i am trying to say is that there are more important things in life than worrying about who gets this and who gets that. drive on and live life to the fullest. AL

I sacrificed quite a bit for a relationship that didn't work out. The circumstances were sad and difficult, but there's no bitterness, anger, or any of the negativity you apparently perceive. In the course of my journey, however, I have encountered many situations where the USC was used and abused, and the story is very much of the time one where the immigrant is looking to secure the green card, regardless of the path left behind. The disgruntled proposed immigrant in those circumstances does and says anything, to the point of accusing an innocent spouse of abuse... Too often, I see that the marital relationship is merely a stepping stone, and not the end-all as a marriage should be...that the marriage is just a means to an end, and that the immigrant isn't vested in the relationship. To me, immigration should be, and I think the system is designed to make it, a by-product of the marriage, but it's the intense volume of the abuses of the system that have hardened my view... But my personal experience aside, and there were a number of reasons for that experience that are really irrelevant and have absolutely no bearing on anything, rather than struggle for a green card, my question at the outset of this discussion was, and remains, why isn't going home an option? The question was not directed entirely at the OP about whom I, in particular, know absolutely nothing, and whose circumstances are unknown to me; however, in general terms, I question the propriety of the idea that immigration should be guaranteed just because of a marriage...I think that there should be something more involved, and if not, the immigrant should not be entitled to ANYTHING...not any special treatment or dispensation...immigration is a privilege, NOT a right. The solution? I don't know. I suppose that the current processes are the best that can be utilized, the abuses notwithstanding. In the end, it would be better to let in 100 immigrants whose motives are suspect than to prohibit only 1 immigrant whose circumstances warrant the grant of residency status...just as it would be better to let 100 guilty suspects run free than to convict one innocent one.

But I hold no anger or disdain. Occasional sadness, and remorse, but no...nothing beyond that. I've been able to let go, to the extent there was something to let go of. Onward and forward! But for spouses along for the ride just to get a green card, no matter what it takes? I have little compassion. Home is still a viable alternative as far as I am concerned.

PERHAPS there is a big number of people who, after having a heart broken decides to go back home, but to follow that option they may not need to visit this forum. PERHAPS we can only read in VJ about people who analized their options and wants to stay in the US because of the type of information that is shared here...

Good luck to the OP in whatever you decide to do...

Tito , sorry i did not get back to you earlier but my day has been terrible. after reading your post i can understand a little better where you are coming from. i have a good one for you now . at 5pm today my office manager (who has been missing in action since thursday called me from home)she has a big problem// she EWI as a child at the age of 3. she married a jerk 3 yrs ago ( also an employee until he gets out of the hospital on tuesday) she just got out of the hospital friday afternoon because he beat her up. he is nowhere to be found right now. she got sick a yr ago and was told she needs a kidney transplant. she is on a machine at night so not very romanticly involved right now. she filed for divorce and got a restraining order against him. I filled out the I-130 for them 2 yrs ago and he was supposed to send it in. guess he forgot. (yeh - right).he has been telling his co-workers that he doesn't want damaged goods and he wished she would get the hint and go back home to mexico. he said he never had intentions of getting her a green card. I did not know she was illegal. She has worked for me for 5 yrs,has a hs diploma, and a college degree AA , and is very well spoken. NO family in mexico, mom deceased, father unknown. what can she do?? i am going to contact a attorney on monday and see what can be done. any ideas???

Options are limited for those unfortunate circumstances. If there were assurances on the part of the USC for marriage and green card, and then the restraining order and evidence of physical abuse such as hospitalization, the case would seem to me, at first blush, to be a slam dunk for an I-130 application. But I certainly cannot dispense any advice either way. However, for the 130, the USC has no involvement and doesn't even know what happens. She should be sure that she includes her medical records and the restraining order and any other evidence of the relationship and how long it lasted.

And this line of your quote is why I posted what I did. You appeared to be assuming that the OP only wished to stay for a GC and that she should go home, rather than to continue with her immigration process. Once more I stress that you DO NOT know what her circumstances are and she asked a very simple question yet got a judgement.

By misguided I was referring to your thoughts that all beneficiaries should return to their country of origins rather than stay, if they got divorced, even if they WERE genuine in their application for residency. As you yourself are NOT a beneficiary and have not experienced what they have to give up to move here I do not feel you should be demanding that they all go home.

But you are reading that into what I posted. I never demanded that everybody go home...I said that it is a VERY VIABLE OPTION. And I DO firmly believe that the immigration process is a privilege, NOT a right just because an immigrant married a USC. Rather than assume that the immigrant should stay, I believe that the process should be that the first option is to return home, UNLESS the immigrant can show special circumstances as in the case of the many examples here where the relationship involved something more than plane fare and empty promises. The statistics are not very good in favor of successes of cross-cultural marriages, sorry to say, yet why, then, should an immigrant have special status simply because of a marriage to a USC? That is a RISK that both the USC AND the immigrant take. Otherwise, the immigrant gets all the choices, whereas the USC is stuck with supporting the immigrant for 10 years! Is that right? The risk for the success of the relationship was undertaken jointly, but in reality, if things don't work out, the USC is on the hook, and the immigrant gets a green card. To me, that is stacking the deck against the USC.

Again - when it comes to the responsibility for the risk jointly undertaken, why should the risk of the USC be so much more burdensome? The immigrant has the option of returning, of staying and making the most out of the situation, regardless of their actual commitment to the relationship that got them here in the first place. To show fraudulent intent is virtually impossible!!! So, why SHOULDN'T the immigrant bear the responsibility for the choices he or she makes??? Many of them give up a lot to move here, that is true...but the fact remains that the life they left behind is STILL AVAILABLE TO THEM!!! So, what did or does the immigrant really give up that they can't have back? Family? No...still there. A house? Maybe, but they're no worse off than looking for a house in the US. A job? Sure...but there are always jobs, and are no worse off than they would be in the US looking for a job. What is it about the right to be in the US that is so special that anything less or anything going back is so bad??? Again - yes, there is a risk in any relationship. But as far as immigration is concerned, it's a privilege, and not one that should be automatic just because of a marriage. Why SHOULD the USC be the one who bears the brunt of the risk if things don't work out??? THAT is the question.

Not at all misguided. In fact, this analysis is beyond the superficial and contemplates the totality of the circumstances, not just the buzz words...that's just rhetoric. The sacrifices on the part of the immigrant are not irrevocable.

Love seems to have been mentioned quite a few times, USCIS do not require love..

I can think of a few people I know who are USC's got married, and one has had to move across county, sometimes further than an Immigrant. But then if the marriage fails, do they always move back if they have settled?

If you have immigrated to the US in the last few years, sold up moved some or all of your assets over, bought a house, financially it will probably just not be possible to move back into a similar situation with your now depreciated asset and the way the Dollar has crashed. One step forward, but two to go back.

Once again I am quoting one of your first posts, that seems to indicate that what you are proposing would not be an OPTION as you claim. How is "consider returning to their country of origin on their own, or be deported" an option? The way you wrote it, if the alien did not choose to return home, then deportation is the alternative?
They either go, willingly, or are shipped off against their will.

The statutes state that if the alien cannot demonstrate that the marriage was bonafide, the alien's application to adjust or remove conditions of PR is denied. Acquiring Permanent Residence under such circumstances is hardly "automatic". There are requirements. The "entitlement" for which you have disdain, is only conferred to an alien AFTER the alien has demonstrated that their intentions at inception were genuinely to spend their life with their USC spouse.

As the INA stipulates, if the marriage terminates prior to adjustment of status, the requirement of the alien is significantly greater. He or she must demonstrate not only that the marriage was bonafide, but also that they were either abused or that there would be a significant hardship for them to return to their native land. So, what needs to be revamped?

"They either go, willingly, or are shipped off against their will."

ABSOLUTELY! There absolutely, positively, certainly is no RIGHT to immigrate, simply by virtue of the marriage. That is an option, like it or not, that's the risk the immigrant takes...that the marriage didn't work out, things didn't go as planned. The BIG question is...WHO BEARS THE RISK? Unfortunately, there is no right associated with immigration unless and until there is a green card. Up to that point, indeed, deportation is possible, unless there is a defense to the deportation proceedings (i.e., the immigrant claims they were abused, or whatever the drill happens to be...).

What needs to be revamped? The point of view of the immigrant. Scrambling for a green card is one option...but so is going home.

One additional comment...I think I've covered just about everything... It is abhorrent to me that, after a short term marriage where the immigrant complains about how difficult the adjustment is, how much they miss home, how much they miss their family, their climate, their environment, their circumstances, whatever, the FIRST thing the proposed immigrant wants to do if and when things don't work out is secure permanent residency!! If they miss home so much, why is THAT the #1 priority?? It doesn't make sense.

Well, that would irk many, I am sure. But in the case of a marriage between an alien and a USC that doesn't work out, where there are no complaints of missing home etc. ~ would you still say that the alien should be required to leave, save for extenuating hardships in the nativeland? Just for the record, tito, you have informed us that you are not bitter. I believe you hope not to be, but to lump all aliens in one category seems wholly improper. There are many states in this country that observe no-fault divorces, where the court steadfastly advises to dismantle the union as quickly as possible (if divorce is a foregone conclusion). Many family courts will not entertain grounds in such states. Were divorces still to require grounds for the petitioner in a divorce, then it might be easier to sift through to see if the aliens were at fault in the breakdown of the marriage. And just maybe there would be some that had abused the right they were awarded through marriage. But take for example an alien that leaves all behind for a life with her USC, who later turns out to be a chronic philanderer, dishonest adullterous individual, wouldn't what you propose force aliens to remain in an unhappy relationship rather than to divorce, because to end the relationship would mean that the alien would be forced to go home?

Well...maybe you can elaborate a bit more over what you said above ?
Like what do you think we need to do to deserve this GC ?
After all we pay taxes like everyone else(supporting some USC) we bring high skills (some very hard to be filled by USC )..isn't this enough ?
Just wondering what else you think we should provide in order to qualify for this GC ?
I don't want to sound rude but you are pathetic man

I totally agree with "tito".
Illegal immigrants take alot from the government so so so much and its not our countries problem to support the whole world.
Alot of people who come to usa they drive mercedes bmws. they are doctors lawyers or business owners and they dont tip when needed, they dont pay full taxes, they dont appreciate this country they complain about america but they are working and surviving here and sending money backhome. What about the American citizens? I'm not fully american but i am american by birth and I thank God all the time I was born here by grace. I will accept all the benefits only if I am giving back to my country.

As far as this marriage its best if the immigrant is sent back to their country its a loss and gain marrying a USA Citizen. Sorry all marriages don't work out and God bless you to help you move on but you can't blame America for your divorce. Other Americans who have married and will marry out of the country we are pushed back into the long waiting successful marriages have happened. I think the other divorced people on here should give us single people a chance to get married overseas before they start "net" searching for spouses. Dammit.

How this has anything to do with what the OP originally asked is beyond me.

Immigration to the United States IS a part of the whole process so why should the immigrant now give up what he or she has HERE and go home??? Many give up their homes, careers, etc. to come here and marry their USC significant other - they have nothing to go home to. Besides, I don't recall the OP making mention that he or she would be a burden to society. You, nor any of us, know the situation in which this divorce has or is about to occur. The goal, or so I thought, of VJ was to offer support and advice...not judgmental opinions. Has the OP blamed America - is the OP illegal? I also don't recall seeing the OP stating that he or she was already "net" searching for a new spouse. I waited just as long as many others on here, some have waited far longer. Whatever your issue is shouldn't be used as a reason to judge the OP or anyone else on here. Just my opinion...as an American citizen...and as a Cherokee...one of the First Nations People.

wasnt directly stated against the "OP" . The discussion elaborated to another level between other members that's where my OPINION was sent in.

what is your opinion on non-USC & USC has children and finish up to divorced? just deport the non-citizen along with children or leaved the children in US?

You could go on and on with varying hypothetical situations, and the more ties to the US that the immigrant has, the greater the reason to secure permanent residency. My issue, once again, is that the immigrant's threshold inquiry and #1 priority should not be a green card when going home is a viable option.