I've lurked and posted on many immigration websites for several years now. The former being the case with this one.

After spending more time here than usual over a holiday lull in my work travels, I've a question.

I don't quite understand the tolerance of the Admin of this website for what I would call 'questionable topics'. I notice quite a bit of intolerance with issues like 'illegal immigration'. I see some political topics discussed as well that I wouldn't think Admin would care to be linked with on random google searches.

Just what exactly is the purpose of VisaJourney?

LEGAL immigration.

If you are referring to topics in the Off Topic area then some of what you say could be possible. We created the Off Topic forum to allow posts "outside" the topic off immigration. We also typically allow a greater latitude in the Off Topic forum for the same reasons. That said, violations of the TOS are enforced in all forums. Things such as blatent attacks of other members, trolling, etc are always takene care of when reported to us.

If by intolerance you mean that we do not allow people to promote or instruct people to violate US law by undertaking in illegal immigration than you are correct. VJ promotes legal immigration and all the steps that go along with it. It is totally ok to discuss the subject of illegal immigration but people should not tell others to take part in it or promote it (see TOS for a better explanation).

In general politics are an important part of life and even in many cases tie into immigration. Clearly there is no "right or wrong" political view point and open discussion (in a productive way) allows members to gain insight and opportunity to share their thoughts on many subjects. If you think however that certain subjects should not be allowed to be discussed I am curious as to what topics you mean.

In regards to posting on politics (or other topics), members should place their posts in the correct forum. Immigration topics should go in the correct forum and if the topic is "off topic" then it should go in the Off Topic" forum.

Like in any forum or topic, if there are personal attacks or other repeated violations of the TOS then they can result in members getting a verbal warning, suspension, or more.

Yay for E

I had the same question. May I politely ask what it is that you saw, or read, that bothered you?

D&N <---------------- living proof to warning and more for TOS

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=102169

This is a difficult case. Short thread. Not a lot of info.

I wondered how some of the conclusions were drawn.

What I wonder is why you say 'questionable topics' when that topic you just posted is absolutely valid. Yet you come here with talk of ' I wouldn't think Admin would care to be linked with on random google searches.' when it seems what you have issue with is one particular poster.

If you find anything offensive, feel free to report it to admin or pm a mod...to call in question the site's whole way of dealing with things seems a bit OTT imo. If you want answers to how 'some of the conclusions are drawn' you can feel free to continue your exchange with the poster in question in that thread. I don't know how anyone else could help you satisfy your curiosity as to why that poster feels the way (s)he does. That is not a question for admin.

OH, thank you for your reply.

I remember that topic from a few days ago. There are a few VJ'ers who promote the "alternate immigration path" of tourist visa/AOS and similar things. Most of us, despite the loud voice of the bullies (LAL, RebecaJo, Mermaid, etc) only help one another get through the legal process of filing, waiting, and suffering through the legal process. There are legal ways to marry and file adjustment of status once you are in the states. There have been posts from students who meet someone and want to get married, and adjust from student visas to PR, and similar types of cases. These are perfectly legal attempts to understand what they need to do to stay with their SO's while they continue to live here, even if they can potentially fall out of status while their paperwork is being processed.

I have spoken up against promoting the "alternate immigration path", and have been put down, beat up, and shot up for it, and I understand your concern about what you read on this post. The majority of VJ members, I have found, do not try to help or promote anyone to skirt immigration laws or shortcut into the US to live here while they get through the immigration process.

There have been many Canadians and Europeans (who are from countries with visa waiver programs) on this forum who implicitly promote the tourist/AOS path to immigration. What I find is that here on VJ if you speak up about that you are more likely to get suspended or penalized in some way because there is an underlying (implied) feeling that this is the best, easiest, and most painless way to "immigrate".

(Fully expecting to get nailed for this post)

Regards,

David and Nitadyah, who have suffered through the full, painful, and legal process

Noting this is a perfect example of my previous post

Begging the ladies pardon if she feels the referenced thread is OTT. I felt it best to cite an example wherein I was a thread participant. And my only concern here was what I believed to be a rush to judgment on the OP.

Since you are obviously a more active poster than I, perhaps you've got a better example?

I beg your pardon? What point exactly are you trying to prove with my post?


To clarify this VWP/AOS issue, the legality lies in intent upon entry. If one uses the VWP as means to enter while intending to marry and file for AOS, that is fraud. If one is here visiting/on another form of temp visa, and they decide after entry to marry, AOS is a perfectly legitimate option. No one here should be 'promoting' a fraudulent entry with intent to immigrate. And as to your assertion that you will get 'put down, beat up, shot, suspended or penalized' for speaking out against fraudulent paths to LPR here on VJ, you are absolutely 100% wrong as this site does not endorse such behavior. Any member implicitly endorsing fraudulent behavior is violating TOS.

My point is made. Allow the OP to draw his own conclusions.

I'm not sure I follow you.

There may be 'alternate immigration paths' as you call them, but some are just as legal as others.

Is that the problem?

No, what I feel is OTT is this whole thread, if what you are referencing is a problem with one particular poster. Threads like this one are only going to bring out people's issues with other posters, imo (see above). To call the whole site to task over an issue with one other poster DOES seem OTT to me. That shouldn't stop you from doing what you want...I'm just voicing my opinion.

I don't quite see the 'intolerance for illegal immigration' in that particular thread....if you were to mosy into OT, you can have your choice of any illegal thread where you WILL see intolerance. But that is only natural, imo....this site is to promote anecdotal evidence of people involved with a visa journey...and no where here should there be any tolerance for giving advice or promoting a fraudulent means of entry.

There is one admin and two mods (well there's 3, but let's not get into that)...it is v likely that none of these people have personally seen that particular thread. If you feel there's a TOS violation, by all means alert them to it.



How would I go about disallowing that? And why would I even want to?

I'm asking you to clarify what you're getting at. Please and thank you.

(yawns), is bored, and done with this thread

It's really a disservice to be all finger pointy and whatnot, but not willing to explain and back up your statements. This could have been a very civil discussion!

True. Doesnt change any of our outcomes one iota to finger point does it? Something to think about.

I thought you were done here?

If you're not going to politely explain what you meant before, then there's no use talking to you. I am more than willing to have a civil discussion with you...even one where we both disagree. But I will not sit idly by while you paint any part of VJ as advocating fraudulent means of obtaining visas.

Except we both know that there are a few members on here that salivate at the thought of AOS and just send anyone who is anybody straight to AOS for any suggested case.

I am politely saying I did not challenge you but we both know that there are some canadian and uk posters who absolutely love and support the concept of "tourist" to aos.

also politely offering to go, get examples, and post them. but i think you know

may we end this?

Actually, this is important enough to bring out in the open. If you can show where someone advocates illegally entering with intent to immigrate, or bashing you for saying it is illegal, that person needs to be brought to Ewok's attn.

Bring your examples. I think it'd be good for the site. I'm sure E will take the appropriate action.

get wet for something else. my postings, views, and thoughts are public here. K? enough

1. until i get tossed ima say what i want
2. you know exactly what im talking about

with that said, im out on this one, get it?

Now here we have what I have been observing.

An apparent disagreement between two members as to what is considered 'illegal'.

Why are members questioning the legal paths of others? Because it isn't available to them? Because it isn't legal in their own minds? Because it's different than what they did?

And most importantly, why does Admin allow for the confusing conjecture?

No

in my case, the outcome doesnt matter

here, there are a few who recommend different paths

Either way, so what? Each case stands or falls on merits.

I'm very confused now.

You previously referred to 'alternate immigration paths'.

Yet here you state the outcome of the paths does not matter.

It is quite true each case stands or falls on its own merits. But I believe there are different paths, which can equal the same result - merits notwithstanding.

There is just one right path, the legal path. Anything that is not in compliance with immigration laws can lead to problems lateron.

There are many legal paths that lead to the same result - living legally in the US.

And getting deported later. Like lately a few times in the news.

Intent people .......INTENT is what matters. Short and simple......one small word and so often overlooked in all the discussions.

And why do you think that is?

Because it is not understood and therefore overlooked. It is what sets legal and illegal apart in most cases.

Bottom line.

Do you feel you understand what intent means? Do you feel members here understand it?

You said "I notice quite a bit of intolerance with issues like 'illegal immigration'."

Of course there is intolerance with illegal immigration because it is ILLEGAL! The vast majority of us are here because we are working hard to LEGALLY bring our loved one here.

There are plenty of other sites dedicated to criminals who would look for ways to break immigration laws.

BTW, I think the moderators do a great job on this board.

Well, I wouldn't expect a legitimate immigration discussion community to foster illegal notions.

Does having gone down one legal path, though, mean the other legal paths are less desirable?

There is just one 'path'. The immigration law of the USA. Any attempt to bend the law can have bad consequences.

Ok.

If you saw a post here where you felt someone was bending that law, what would be your reaction to that post?

Do I understand what intent means ? Can you tell by my bringing it to the table ? What is not to understand, it is a simple concept.

Do members understand it ? You have to ask them. Some do some don't. Some prefer to get into long discussions and ignore intent, hidden agenda
and motivation.
Some applicants have to learn the hard way what intent means.

I would inform this person that bending the law can have serious consequences, going that far, that even the US citizenship can be revoked based on non-compliance with immigration laws.
Of course I can't dictate someone what to do. Basically that is all you can do on here. If people like to gamble with their future. Why not? It is their life!

Hey, we're just having a conversation here, ok? Nothing personal.

I'm more interested in the overall 'mood' of the world here. The members. I almost get the impression everybody thinks the only way to live here legally is to file a family based petition from overseas.

Would you wonder (before you answered them) if you had a full grasp of the law?

I've been reading boards for years and I still learn new things all the time. And I see new things too as we travel around and speak to people of different cultures.

That has a lot to do with the fact that family-based petitions is precisely what this site addresses.

So they end up thinking that's the only way to go?

There is no 'they', JQ.

Do you ever wonder if you are offending people? You don't know me. So don't tell me what I know and what I don't know!
I don't read boards only. I read also the actual immigration law. And for certain things there are certain ways which are described in the immigration law!
I don't know what you are trying to do. Do you try to promote half-legal ways?
You can do and you can 'help' people the way you like. But keep in mind that if you give out information that is not covered by the immigration law you are gambling with your or their future.

Sorry.



Hey man, it's just a question, ok?

'Half-legal' doesn't exist. A course of action is either legal or illegal. The law provides, in many cases, for legal followup to illegal acts. Those aren't "half legal", they are legal.


No need to apologize. VJ is bigger, much bigger, than stinger or Lisa or D&N or I or even Ewok. There is no 'they' and chances are, however you feel about something, there are many others who do as well.

Then let me rephrase the question.
Do you try to promote illegal ways to get the US citizenship?

Nothing personal was assumed.
There are many examples how applicants adjust status with honest intent and succeed from other visa types.
I believe it is beyond this board to sort through those individual cases, they are far too complicated to mainstream and it is not the
intent ( no pun intended ) of a family based immigration board to advice on adjusting from other visa types.
That is best left to attorneys and AO's .
It remains speculations and guessing at best with some examples that have worked for one case but not another.
Too many variables come into play to give sound advice.

Discuss away....gotta go.

There aren't any. US Citizenship can only be provided by the federal government of the United States in a manner provided for by law.