Hi All,

When Ira and I got engaged, it was less of a proposal, and more of a discussion/decision. If anything, it was a very Ivanovo-esque way of deciding to form a family. Well, this Novi God, I plan to pop the question according to the more formal, romantic, American tradition. I know it loses something when you already know the answer, but it'll still be something nice for Ira to experience...

My concern, however, is that engagement rings aren't exactly a Russian custom -- and women walking around with a two carat diamond on their finger also aren't the norm. The diamond is shiny and reflective as hell, and so I know Ira will stand out in a crowd. And this may sound somewhat like American arrogance (who wouldn't be impressed by the shiny stone, after all... ), but I'm worried that she will appear like a perfect target for every day criminals; and maybe even some poverty stricken would-be criminals who'd like to make some significant apartment repairs.

Has this been an issue for anybody else? How do your ladies handle the engagement ring?

Thanks!

Z

My lady wears hers everyday, and has not reported any problems. She lives in Sochi.

I wear mine every time I go so that it indicates i am engage. But when at home, I usually put it in the box because I don't want it to lose its shine, , no problem so far....

maybe u should get her a fake one to wear out when she is alone and let her wear her good one like when she goes out in a group or where she wouldnt be targeted for robbery.

My Lady wore hers in Moscow with no problems.

You have the same protective tendencies that I do. I have to constantly remind myself that she is more than capable of taking care of herself, and that she knows better than I do how to be safe in her own city. So I wouldn't worry about it at all. If she's in a situation where she shouldn't be flashing her bling, I'm sure she'll take appropriate measures.

Russia makes some of the best "fake" diamonds in the world. I have an American friend who swears you can't tell the difference without high tech analysis. For about $600 you can get a 1.5 carat 'diamond" that looks impressive with a nice gold setting.

Anyway, my wife wears her ring but she is sometimes afraid and hides it underneath her finger. (BTW, it's a real diamond).

The thing about diamonds is simila r to autos...you pay a lot up front but the value drops very quickly. A $10,000 ring might only bring $3000 on resale. I don't know about Russia but in theUSA diamonds are a lousy investment.

My fiancée wanted nothing to do with a diamond ring. Primarily, she just considers they are gaudy and a waste of money. Secondly, she feels such a ring does not belong on city streets and she wanted to feel comfortable wearing her ring daily. She picked out a very practical yet beautiful ring. I know I would definitely be concerned about my fiancée having such a ring taken. I've yet to see a large diamond ring on the finger of any Russian lady in Kazan'. If you want to go big, maybe save it for Stateside to be on the save side.

Because we couldn't afford anything fancy like that we stuck to Russian tradition of just a gold band for marriage. So it hasn't been an issue at all.

I also thought about the idea of saving it for Stateside, but I wondered what the interviewer would say... So he loves you? Been together for a couple years? He can afford to live in Russia, fly back to the US several times annually, but you have no ring? Neeext!



Well, the ring is an heirloom, so all I paid for outright was the setting. And after soaking so much cash into the Russian economy the past two years, plus planes, and etc, I'm not sure I could have afforded much more than that myself...



It's nice to know somebody else feels the same way, LOL. It's hard for me to think of Ivanovo in the same way I would Moscow or Rostov, or most any US city. The whole oblast is like a giant ghetto. Given that I grew up in a poor neighborhood, and saw all that went on there, it's a little hard for me to trust people around here that look similar to those who I grew up with, and who come from similar circumstances. Some of these people don't eat on a regular basis (old women still line the streets begging - and blessing me profusely when I hand them a fresh bought chicken from the rinok, or a bag of perogis) and there walks by a young woman with a shiny finger, in the early evening, alone walking toward an empty bus stop...

I have quite the imagination... Which is not always a good thing...



I had no idea that the best fake diamonds were here... I might have been tempted to pick up a few just to see how much I could get for them at a US pawn shop, but $600 is a bit steep for a test run. Are these the famed cubic zirconium you hear about so often on the radio?


Thanks to everybody else as well for their replies. They're appreciated.

Z

I very much doubt that could happen. Since most Russian women do not get a ring until after the wedding, C/Os do understand an engagement ringless lady. The C/O should not even question it. If he did, all she'd have to say is the truth, he prefers to be safe and wait until I am with him in the U.S. as the ring is a special family heirloom!

LOL! Yeah, I know. I have the same imagination. My girl's apartment is situated in an area of town that I would not consider the most upscale. As a nurse she works some fairly odd hours, and I always worry when she walks home at night. I've sent her money and told her to pay the freaking 50 rubles for a cab ride, but she considers it frivolous. (she'd rather spend the money on shoes anyway )

In any case, it should reassure you that she's probably wearing gloves and covering up her ring much of the time. No doubt she'll be pretty bummed about that, as she'd rather be showing it off.


Yeah, cubic zirconium have really come a long way. The best ones are completely indistinguishable from a real diamond without a loupe. I hadn't heard that Russian CZ's were the best, that's interesting.

If you plan on getting a full bridal set, what we did is turn the tradition around: Justin proposed with what you would consider a wedding band (the type that has small diamonds going half way around it, all of the same size). I wore this in my home country without any problems. She can later use the "engagement ring" after she arrives in the US or after the wedding. (We are still waiting to get ours). The CO never asked about the ring or asked to see it.

Saludos,
Caro

If she thinks that's a frivolous expense, wait till she gets to the US. By Russian standards, almost our entire country is frivolous.

Lucky for me, I've lived with Ira for the better part of two years, and so have had lots of time to corrupt her sense of frivolousness.

Z

That's actually a pretty good idea... I wish I thought about it before leaving the States last month with only the engagement ring...

Damn -- This is my number one lesson: check on VJ before doing anything.

Thanks for the advice!

Z

Well as you probably well know, the Russian woman's sense of what's frivolous is a bit subjective. A $2 cab ride at 1am is frivolous, whereas a 17th pair of red high heel shoes is an absolute necessity. I could go on, but I don't think it's necessary in this group.

Someone awhile back posted that if you give a Russian woman a dollar, she'll make it last a week, but give her a hundred dollars and it'll be gone before you can bat an eye. I nearly broke my neck nodding like a bobblehead doll.

That is sooooo true.

Why don't you propose to her with the ring but take it back home with you.....she'll know why you did it. Don't risk her being the victim......i would never trust with the ring like that back in Russia/Ukraine.
And i am sure no one cares whether she has the ring of not on the interview. Engagement rings are only common in USA so it's not a big deal there.

As far as I know, an engagement ring is not part of the Russian tradition so I saw no need to "impose" my culture on her.

However, this is changing. More and more Russian women are hoping (not expecting) for one if they have a Western fiancé. They've all seen enough Hollywood movies to know our tradition is to give one. Just be warned!

Obviously you are correct, but the truth is they see a lot of our traditions and customs on the big-screen.
Seems some Russian woman have no problem embracing the ones which come with a sparkle.... before they even get here.

Certainly in time the traditions will blend, I am looking forward to this as is she.

YES

my wifey turns hers around when she takes public transportation or is out and around the city. Turns it into a simple band.

The way they tell these diamonds are not the real deal is because they are too perfect. Absolutely no imperfections in the clarity. That is starting to change though. In the end, they are all made from the same material (carbon). If Debeers dumped their entire stock of diamonds on the market, they would be worthless. Women still want them though.

My girl absolutely flipped when I gave her an engagement ring. She didn't mind me imposing my culture on her at all.

I know what you mean-!!!

The ring wasn't (and still isn't) a big deal to my wife either. Yes, she was very happy to recieve it, but even in America she doesn't wear it around all the time. Its part culture, and part her personality, I think.

The ring really wasn't that expensive (especially by the standards of many of the men in this forum), and the diamond wasn't very big, but it still would stick out walking down the street in her city in Russia.

My fiancee has a big Saphire engagement ring and wears it everyday in Omsk (large Siberian city) without fear. Granted, it is not a diamond ring, but according to her, Russian women are fond of jewelry and wear expensive jewelry all the time in Moscow and other large russian cities without fear. My personal experience is that Russian big city streets tend to be safer than American big city streets vis-a-vis crime. Indeed, I suspect that it is more likely that she would get mugged for her ring in the USA rather than Russia....... not that either event is statistically likely to happen.

Perhaps I didn't say that right. Jewelry is quite common, obviously. Engagement rings are not. Obvious or otherwise, I never said she would get mugged.

I have yet to hear about a Russian fiancee getting her engagement ring stolen by petty thieves on the street. So, I wouldn't worry too much about that happening. Why would a woman riding the subway or waiting for the bus have a 2ct diamond ring on? It's a fake, and therefore not worth stealing.

As for the C/O approving or denying the case based on an engagement ring, it's usually not even asked because it's assumed that there will be no engagement ring because it's not a Russian tradition. If even asked about (not) having one, all she has to say is you guys are waiting until you're married, as is tradition in Russia.

As far as a woman, any woman, not accepting a 2ct diamond ring.... I'll believe it when I see it. Sure, they may think it unnecessary or frivilous or could've used the money somwhere else, and even say they don't need one, but once they get it on that finger... you may have to wrestle them to get it off. Could be fun, who knows?

I went through the same agonizing decision. At the time, I had already worked and lived in Russia for 2 years. Beleive me, you have every right to be concerned about this. I settled on a 1/2 carat marquis cut. In your favor, NOBODY will believe it's real in Russia. Especially 2 carat!

By the way, she cried for 20 min. after I gave her the ring.

Good luck to you.

Does anyone on here do the Russian style "right hand" engagement/wedding rings?

Truth be told, my wife and I hardly ever wear our wedding rings (both of our jobs pretty much require no jewelry) and when we do, we wear them on the left hand because we're in the States. We said when we got them "when in the U.S., we'll wear on the left, as is customary. When in Russia, we'll wear on the right." We've yet to return to Russia since being married but if we do, we'll swap 'em over to the other hand.

My fiancée has her engagement ring on her right hand. She told me he will probably want her future wedding band there too as the hand the ring is on is Russian.

Hey, Slim, are you saying your employers forbid wedding bands? I've got serious issues with that.

About two years ago they came out with a "no jewelry" policy. Nothing. No wedding bands, no earrings, not even a Mr. T style feather was allowed. I work in a factory with machinery and lots of moving parts so there was at least a valid reason for them to issue the new order; Safety First.

However, about a week into it, so many people were b!tching about not being able to wear their wedding rings that they amended the policy and allowed wedding bands to be worn. They've loosened up quite a bit on enforcement of the policy (some of the girls are even sporting engagement rings without wedding bands) but it is now "officially" allowed to wear one.

I choose to not wear mine at work because I happen to like all my fingers, including my ring finger and I know sooner or later if I wore my ring, it'd be melted to the side of a plastic bag along with what's left of my finger. It's a pretty simple titanium band so it probably wouldn't get cut or break but my finger is pretty maleable so that'd probably be what separated from my body. The ring would just be sitting there mocking me.

My wife works in a sandwich shop so she's always getting messy hands and chooses not to wear hers on that account. Plus, hers has a pearl and some small diamonds on it (not really a traditional band but that's the one she wanted... special ring for a special girl!) so she doesn't want it to get messed up either.

We wear them when we get "dressed up" or go out together somewhere. Daily though, neither one of us really wears one. We almost didn't even buy them as it wasn't a big issue for either of us but my parents "donated" the money for them a few days, actually, I think it was the day before, the wedding. Since then, the longest I've worn mine was while we were on vacation. I have a nice "worn" spot of dry, cracked skin on my ring finger now. It's ugly, but it's not enough to make me chance getting caught in some gears.

(I have a buddy at work who has a "work" wedding ring and a "home" wedding ring. He left his work ring at the wash basin one day and thought he lost it. He wasn't very worried about it and we were all like, "Yo man, your wife's gonna kick your @$$ when she finds out you lost your wedding band." He said, "Naw man. That's just my work ring. My home ring is safe and sound. That one was just a $20 Wal-Mart special that I wear around here at work so I don't mess up my other one." He still has all his fingers..... and never got his @$$ kicked.)

My wife only wears her ring(s) when we go out too. She likes to keep them nice, and it isn't a great idea for her to wear them at her work either. My wedding ring was a 35$ band I really didn't care about. I wore it most of the time, but wedding rings were not a big deal to us... I thought...

Then I lost my ring. She was not happy All of a sudden it was a big deal... bah!

Anyway, she bought me a much nicer one for our wedding anniversary. I still do not wear it everywhere, but if I lose it... I might lose something else if you know what I mean.

Glad that policy was changed. My opinion will always be Safety (NO) Family First! I will marry a person, my fiancée, not my job. I have no problems with excessive jewelry, piercings, loose clothing, what have you being restricted. Wedding rings however, different story! I do know some people that buy "work" rings too. Nothing wrong with that. But I want that symbol on my finger and so does my fiancée.

When I was in the service, people who worked around electronics weren't allowed to have dangling jewelry or rings because of the shock hazard. I'm talking working *inside* the electronics, not just operating a computer or something. Some people had a pretty good solution and just wrapped a piece of electrical tape around their ring while working on the equipment. It was an elegant solution and (I'm told) the electrical tape didn't leave any residual tape boogers.

Another guy I knew who was an aircraft mechanic had almost lost his ring finger when a cotter pin on a bomb cart caught his ring. The ship he was on yawed and the bomb cart went rolling across the deck. The hand brake failed, he lost his footing, and it almost tore his finger off. What saved him was that the ring finally pulled off, taking a bunch of skin with it. Ever since then he continued to wear a wedding band, but he modified the new ring with a cut on the inside of the ring that goes about 3/4 the way through, so if it ever happens again the metal will break first. (he's handy with a jewelers saw so I imagine he knows how to do it right.)

So if you were too poor to afford wedding bands, would you feel your marriage is somehow incomplete or inadequate?

Where did I say or imply that? I said, "I" and "my fiancée" Those two people "want that symbol". What do I care if someone does not want to wear a wedding band?

Very few people are too poor to afford a simple wedding band, especially if they can afford to marry. Even a simple 14k band can be found in a pawn shop for pennies on the dollar.

And I don't think I'd ever consider my marriage "incomplete or inadequate" without a ring, but I do believe that symbols hold a power of their own, even for an atheist like me. It means something because it *means* something. For safety reasons I can understand people being asked to remove jewelry, but I'd never work anywhere that flat out prohibited me from wearing my wedding band because of something arbitrary.

Really I have a hard time believing that when over 1 billion people on this planet live on less than $1 a day. Yet I am sure they still go through some sort of marital ceremony.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty

Well since the question seemed to be directed at "you," meaning either the generic "you"/reader or perhaps specifically KT, then I thought I'd limit my response to a reasonable subset of the earth's population.

But honestly, I'm not sure what the question is really getting at.

"So if you were too poor to afford wedding bands, would you feel your marriage is somehow incomplete or inadequate?"

There's really no way to answer this question that reflects what I believe KT was driving at. If you answer "yes" then you are saying your marriage is tied up in a couple pieces of metal instead of the deeper aspects of love, trust, et al. If you say "no" then you've completely dismissed the symbol of unity the rings represent. Yet clearly these symbols mean *something* important, and it can't really be summed up in an answer to that question.

Well I can not speak for the other billion. For my fiancée and I it is nice to be able to look at something physical, to touch it, to caress and feel it on your finger, and know that it is a symbol of everlasting commitment. As for worth, Hell, it could be a Crackerjack ring.

What are you picking at anyway? That because some of us like and appreciate the tradition and symbology of a ring, we are superficial and incapable of seeing the bigger picture?

There is a "symbol" in almost every culture to commemorate a wedding or union of people. It may be a simple action witnessed by one's family, community and peers (like jumping over a broom, breaking a lightbulb, etc.) or it may be very expensive (like a diamond-encrusted platinum band that is worn on a finger every minute of every day) and then there are the really permanent things like scarring and branding. Either way, marriage is usually "symbolized" by something, even by poor people.

Traditionally, in my neighborhood, at least, it's usually symbolized by the woman having a very swollen abdomen at the wedding.

During this recent trip to Moscow, I presented Sasha with a 1 carat diamond in an antique setting on a platinum band encrusted with 6 small diamonds. She was very pleasantly surprised. I also officially asked her parents' permission.....in Russian even!! Oy. That was extremely difficult! Then I re-proposed to her as her parents witnessed. We had been engaged for a long while, hence the 129f in July, but I never officially had the chance to ask her parents in person. They gave us their blessings of course, then we had a nice dinner to celebrate afterwards with her extended family. We agreed that it was best to wear wedding bands on the right hand while in Russia and on the left while in the States. I was a little worried about someone noticing her ring and trying to steal it, but then I noticed how snug her ring fits. I'm confident that stone is going nowhere. Since I bought the ring here and she was there, I had to make a rough guess to her finger size. Wanted it to be a surprise. I must say that it is a perfect fit for security. Would take a tub of Crisco to ease that baby off! well, not really. but you get the idea.

Her family was certainly not used to such a tradition. And they seemed to really like the ring. Most Russians don't wear engagement rings, and some dont even wear wedding rings. And I noticed that when women do wear wedding rings, they are simple yellow gold bands without stones. So, I'm sure to most Russians Sasha will appear to be married already. Fine by me.

Cool!

Although, if she needs to get that ring off while in Russia, there's probably a whole lot of Mayo that would be readily available.

Hahaha! Yes indeed! As you know they eat that stuff on everything. In fact the buckets they buy it in (yes, I said buckets, because that's what they are ) are so bigyou need a hatchback automobile just to get it home! My soon to be brother-in-law got me hooked on a dollop of mayo in my soup. Actually not bad. And let's not get started on ketchup. Lord, how they drink that stuff down!!! Anyway, sorry to be so off topic here. Back to rings, everyone.

I with you on the mayonnaise, 100%, but catsup is less of thing, it seems, in my fiancée's parts. I didn't see catsup in many grocery carts or cafés. They seem to only slather it on at the local McDonald's.

That is one fine ring you got Sasha!

We even had pizza with mayonnaise baked in. It wasn't as horrible as it sounds, but I wouldn't go out of my way to eat it again.

Yeah, it is quite a ring! A fine one indeed. But I'm sorry if I sounded as though I was bragging. I didn't mean to. Though I am pretty proud of it. And sooo happy that Sasha loves it so much. She won't take it off her finger. Or can't...don't really know!! Hahaha. Man, they've got ketchup in dozens of styles and flavors on the shelves in the stores. Perhaps you didnt recognize it because the bottles are quite different looking that ours. They have about as many varieties as we have for barbeque sauces. I absolutely love Шашлык (shashlyk) and it used to horrify me when they would smear it all over those luscious pieces marinated pork chunks. I will use flavored ketchup occasionally on it just for something a little different. But generally I dont use it on anything. I've seen Russians dip their pizza in ketchup, but never seen it with mayo. In fact Russian pizza just makes me cringe. Its not pizza at all. I'd rather frozen pork in flavorless gelatin. Yuk!! That's really the only Russian food I dont like. Well, that and some variations of Salo....or however its spelled in English. Nothing like slabs of cold pig fat with the skin and hair still in tact....mmmmm yummy. Took me a while to get used to orange caviar. Growing up, my father and I actually bought that stuff at bait shops before fishing for rainbow trout. In Ct that's the only place you can find the stuff. Bait shops. Tricky getting them little bastards on the hooks.

Damn, what have we done to the ring thread?! Sh1t. Sorry.

Pizza with mayo is awesome! Of course, I'm a pizza lover in genearl so my oppinion may be somewhat biased. Some really good pizza is with mashed potatoes baked between two layers of crust, topped with mayo and cheese, veggies, shrimp, calamari and of all things, corn. It's available from Domino's.... in Korea.

We went to the Pizza Hut in Moscow. It was very upscale, I was a bit surprised. I guess when you pay $60 for pizza, breadsticks, salads and a few beers, you better be in an upscale place.


Russians were ahead of their time in the ketchup department. I was making "mexican ketchup" for a long time by adding Tobasco to my ketchup. When I went to Moscow, it was one of the 57 varieties already being sold.