If the original intentions of the spouse, who has already been granted the "unconditional" Permanent Residence for 10 years, is immediately suspect upon arrival in the US, and within 2 1/2 weeks has gone to live somewhere else, how can she have her Visa removed: only if it is proven to have been fraudulently obtained from the beginning upon entering into a marriage, or by divorcing her, by a combination of these things, and/or by some other means? (We're talking about New Jersey here.)

She also does not state her present whereabouts or address. At this point, since she is not living with her spouse, can she lbe liable for not having reported an address change? What role does of Affidavit Support by the US-citizen husband play in all of this?

If conditions have been lifted there is nothing you can do my friend. That sucks too. Always sorry to see a case end like this.

The affidavit of support is valid until one of the conditions is met to invalidate it. Otherwise, with a 10 year green card, the couple should not expect anything else need be dealt with differently because one party is an immigrant. If the marriage is over, get a divorce. A ten year green card pretty much by definition, rules out visa fraud.

Time to consult a lawyer.

The petitioner can remove their Affidavit of Support from what I understand. She would then be denied AOS.

She has already received her Green Card when she entered the US as a CR/IR-1. She doesn't need to apply for AOS. Since the marriage was already more than 2 years old at the time she did not receive a conditional green card. She is considered a permanent resident. The OP can certainly consult a lawyer but I don't expect that there will be much - if anything - he can do.

It is sad it worked out for you like this.

A 10 years green card can not be revoked.

Just get the divorce and move on.

Not at all true!


Not at all true!



ANY Green Card can be revoked, 10 year or 2 year makes no difference. It all depends upon what evidence the Service has to demonstrate acquisition by fraudulent means.

Sooooo, what are you suggesting the OP do. He stayed married for at least two years to this woman. Just what kind of evidence do you suppose he might have, since all he mentioned was a suspicion from early in the marriage.

Just what do you have to add to the discussion? I'd like to hear it.

If I read the original post correctly, the LPR spouse got a 10-year card upon her entry into the US on her IR1 visa.

If the OP can submit strong proof to the USCIS that the marriage was entered into fraudulently, then USCIS can revoke the 10-year green card.

I think the question is what consistutese strong proof.

Just what do I have to add to the discussion? Why? Do you think you have iot covered, pushbrk? Well, your condescension aside, I suggest the OP make his reservations/concerns known to USCIS.

And by the way, what do you know about visa (sic) marriage-fraud, and how or what could or could not rule it out?

Please keep it civil. It's just a question. You don't get a ten year green card without convincing an officer in authority that the marriage is valid. This rules out fraud. I expect certain information coming to light later could be grounds for revoking the green card and deportation but it would take a heck of a lot more than the USC having some suspicions upon entry. Simply leaving a couple weeks later wouldn't be enough. I'm not sure what evidence would in the avenue of visa or marriage "fraud", hence the question. Any examples come to mind that might work? Again, it's just a question. They passed an interview for an IR1 visa. What in the way of fraud, do you have in mind that would reverse that?

I am being civil, but your comment came off as condescending. That aside, when an alien applies for immigrant visa, after having been married for more than 2 years, he or she acquires PR without conditions and a 10-year green card is awarded. Convincing an officer in authority that the marriage is valid does not preclude the marriage having been entered into by an alien for immigrant benefit alone.

Yes, written evidence that the alien coerced the USC into marriage, or had an agenda would be very compelling evidence. Testimony from other parties that an alien admitted that the marriage was not bona fide would also be compelling. There are other forms of evidence that could indicate that the aliens intentions were not legitimate too!

It is quite possible that the couple could pass the scrutiny of an interview, especially if the USC is not wise to the alien's plan.

pushbrk - I read this almost as if DM did not have time at the moment to expound on her posts, but wanted to put a bug in the ear of the OP that giving up isn't the only thing he can do. The fact that DM always provides very concise and researched responses should have allowed her such time to give a detailed response without members asking her condescendingly if she has a point.

I asked a question. She need not feel rushed to answer. It's a legitimate question. Often condescension is in the mind of the beholder.

If I'm the OP who hears "There might be something you can do...." regardless of the subject I'm going to be on the edge of my seat waiting for the rest of the story. Maybe that's just me but I don't think so.

We're discussing the potential of revoking a green card for fraud, specifically, not the myriad of other possible reasons for revocation.

Failing to report a change of address to USCIS is a violation of the INA and an alien can be subject to severe penalties. That said, USCIS does not often pursue this. That doesn't mean that it can't be a critical event to demonstrate a lack of respect for immigration law, and the alien's motivation.


Source: http://www.uscis.gov/addresschange

I would add the note that the immigrant is required to report a change of address to the USCIS, not to anybody else, including their spouse, if they so choose. Further the USC spouse has no inherent right to know whether USCIS has received any change of address. USCIS doesn't often pursue this unless there is some other compelling reason to find the immigrant, like suspected serious criminal activity.

While I agree that the Change of Address obligation is between the alien and USCIS, and that an alien has no legal obligation to inform a spouse of an address change, if he or she choose not to, in this particular case, failing to disclose her whereabouts once in the USA, and most especially within 2 and a half weeks of having used a visa to move to the US to be reunited with her US citizen spouse COULD VERY WELL BE indicative of the foreign-born's true motivation. I'll admit, that there is a chance that the alien has informed USCIS and not her spouse, but if she hasn't, there can only be one other circumstance (other than that of entering a marriage with fraudulent intent) under which that could be excused, and that would be if she had been victimised. Absent abuse or an altercation with the US citizen husband in the first two weeks of being on US soil, what was her reason for entering?

I can think of more that the two scenarios. This is a two-year plus marriage. We (in the general public) see many marriages that run their couse in two years and end for any number of reasons. That doesn't mean they were entered into with other than honorable intent. There's a lot we don't know. I'm not willing to assume some activating event like abuse occured during the two and a half weeks but all kinds of things might have occured between the marriage more than two years ago and the departure soon after arrival or even between visa issue and soon after arrival. Either way, once a Consular Officer has deemed the marriage valid and issued a visa, it's going to take some pretty compelling evidence to get USCIS to even look at the issue of marriage validity at this point.

Even if one were to stipulate that it is highly likely the petitioner was mislead in some way or at some point, unless there's compelling specific evidence of a fraudulent relationship AND/OR (more likely OR) some actual reason for deportation, like criminal activity, the chances of sending her packing are slim and none. With the criminal activity, the validity of the marriage become a moot point. Actually, I think any reason that could ever be found significant enough to deport this woman would render the questions of marriage validity moot. Your thoughts?

I simply don't agree with you that the consular evalutation that the marriage appeared bonafide outweighs any and all circumstances that arise so shortly after entry. After all, the immigrant visa is offered to the foreign-born spouse directly as a result of a petition made by and to benefit the US citizen spouse. If the marriage ceases to exist within moments after arrival, barring the presence of abuse, for what purpose should the foreign-born spouse be given the right to reside in the country? Naturally, this is a general statement, and there are always exceptions, such as the possibility that the alien could claim hardshipif the green card were to be rescinded.

DM, I agree with you. Using a relationship with UCS for immigration benefits should be a cut-and-dried and easily corrected case, but it simply isn't. What is the point of a protracted he-said/she-said battle, when this woman is now under the jurisdiction of immigration court with a 2-year waiting period. Sadly, my earlier post was only to suggest that the OP cut the losses, and if any I864 issues kick in fight that rather than try to fight her immigration status after her 10-yr GC is approved.

Living where I live I've seen it all, and CIS (u know, the former agency who approved a hijackers visa after he crashed his plane) doesnt have either the will or energy or resources to go after obvious, identified, and convicted illegal INMATES here, much less the girl in this case.

I also agree that CIS should be notified, but wouldnt suggest much hope that anything would be done about what has happened here. Instead I convey sympathy to the OP and continue to support a much tighter and more rigorous system than the one we have in place today.

Polite regards,

David and Nitadyah

I wouldn't want to make a statement like "outweighs any and all" either so we don't disagree on that. I'm asking you to describe a set of circumstances related to the validity of the marriage that you think WOULD outweigh the consular evaluation and why. You see, I can't think of any. That doesn't mean there isn't any. I'm asking if something has come to your mind. After repeated asking of the same question, with no answer given, I'm led to believe one hasn't come to you or anybody else's mind yet.

You ask, "If the marriage ceases to exist within moments after arrival, barring the presence of abuse, for what purpose should the foreign-born spouse be given the right to reside in the country?", to which I would respond, the foreign-born spouse has already been given that right without conditions and that in the absence of compelling evidence to the contrary, more compelling than simply leaving after a couple weeks, there is no reason to spend the tax and fee payer's money to re-evaluate the consular decision. Let the two adults involved get on with their lives as best they can. I'm pretty sure this is also the way USCIS sees such cases but I'm open to being further educated on the matter.

Even though things don't always work out the way we hope, the petitioner bears a substancial responsibility to evaluate the relationship before executing an affidavit of support, and to do so with eyes wide open to their liability.

pushbrk methinks u waste your time my friend

I guess that depends on just what you think I'm trying to accomplish, doesn't it? No worries. It's my time.

http://www.loc.gov/law/find/hearings/pdf/00139298779.pdf

Here's some fun reading for you all to chew on while you pass the time with your discussion.

It's old paper, but I think students of the process will find it interesting.

she is a permanent resident. She doesnt want to be around you for her own reasons....nor is she required to...forget about it.

Thin line between love and hate.

Maybe she found a new love after the marraige and continued on with the visa since it was already in progress. The OP may have been scammed.

My opinion...........

From reading the statements here, I know you are hurting, and I can sympathize with your situation. There must have been some good things about the relationship to remember. Focus on those.

As for her, if she stayed when she really didn't want to, neither of you would be happy. I'm sorry you were used like this. The past is the past. We learn from our experiences. You can not change the past, but you can change the future. Please don't dwell on this. It will only fester and make your life miserable. Like I said, choose to remember the good things, and learn from the experience and move on.

Life is too short to be miserable.

Take care,
Sue

Without mincing words, that right you are suggesting that the alien has without conditions was given, by USCIS, as a benefit to the USC so that he or she may live in marital bliss in the USA with a person who unfortunately is not native born and was offered to the alien, by USCIS, based upon certain assurances made by the parties that the intent upon entering the marriage was bonafide and that the marriage is not simply a means to evade immigration law. That right has contingencies....the status might not have conditions for the average alien...BUT ALL GREEN CARDS HAVE CONTINGENCIES that can come to haunt the occasional alien. You ask, what contingency? That the assurances offered by the alien, the US citizen, and/or both was the truth! Otherwise, the decision to award the alien a green card can be rescinded.

Evidence comes in all shapes and sizes. If written it is near impossible to refute. But even if there is no written evidence, there are always circumstances that demonstrate enough of a suspicion, and overcoming that suspicion is a burden the alien must bear.

Letters, emails, chat transcripts between the OP and his spouse illustrating a normal, healthy, loving relationship, created a matter of days prior to her disappearance coupled with evidence of her plans to disappear shortly upon entry would outweight a determination made by any consular officer. Bear in mind that the consular officer is only able tyo make a determination based upon the parties before him and a limited amount of commingled documentation. And comportment and composure at a consular interview can be well rehearsed by any would-be conartist. BUT the actions of an alien once he or she has determined that she has managed to fly under the radar speaks to intent as well.

Yes, if somehow written evidence of the foreign spouse's intention to abandon the marriage came to light, it would be pretty compelling. However, suspicion is only sufficient for a Notice of Intent to Deny and possibly eventual visa denial. It is not enough for deportation after permanent resident status is achieved. The burden of proving a valid relationship doesn't carry any substancial time requirement. The service would be hard pressed to deport an alien based on abandonment alone, if they even cohobitated one day after entry. Whether that day or a couple weeks constitutes a valid marriage relationship that later "broke" isn't going to end in deportation if it boils down to nothing more than he said, she said.

This OP says only that the motives were suspect. That's not going to be good enough on its own to even get USCIS to investigate further beyond a note to the file, if that.

Really? Are you sure? USCIS' suspicion is enough to launch an investigation. A fraud investigation and if it turns out that the alien is alleged to have committed fraud, revocation of a green card can ensue.

We're talking apples and oranges. Both my statement and your first one are true. However your second on goes too far. An allegation isn't enough to result in a revocation. The immigrant has rights and USCIS has to prove the allegation in court. Suspicions and he said, she said evidence rarely results in a deportation order. The service knows this and so doesn't waste time on investigations and court costs unless there's far more to go on than one party's suspicion.

Now, that written evidence of an intent to abandon the spouse, something like a signed letter etc. would change things considerably.

You continue to refer to the USCIS benefit being for the USC, and during the process, it is. However, once that unconditional LPR status is in effect, it is both a benefit and right for the LPR. New ballgame.

Listen Man

Save yourself and your time!
Move on without Revenge, without Remorse, without Remembering!

“If the wife runs away it’s not clear who the lucky one is”

He said, she said. I understand that there is validity in correcting misinformation in threads here and of course I'm all for it as a rule. But in this particular case it is taking over the whole thread and, if I was the OP, I'd be thoroughly confused by now. I can see this discussion going on until the cows come home and still achieving nothing.

I'm going to ask that you both chill out and take a step away from this thread now. Thanks.

Mags,
In all due respect, I think this discussion is germane to the OP's questions. Pushbrk's words "he said, she said" relate to the USC and the alien's version of why the marriage ended...it is not a reference to what I have said and what he is saying.

To ask us to step away from this thread is wholly inappropriate, firstly and doing the OP a disservice as well. We are discussing the likelihood that anything the OP would report to USCIS would bring about results.

And I can't resist saying that DM is absolutely correct. We can't be certain the OP is even reading the thread at this point but the discussion is both civil, and on topic.

Accept my empathy my friend

my money is on the mermaid

Entertainment? Or enlightenment?

primarily the latter. the former is provided by many other members

We can't be certain that any OP of any thread is reading them, but we shouldn't assume they aren't or won't come back at some point to see if there is any advice worth taking. And at no point have I said that either of you have been uncivil.



Actually, my useage of the terms "he said, she said" were in reference to you and Pushbrk and not Pushbrk's quote. I wholly understand WHY you are both discussing this and at no point have I mentioned that you were being rude or uncivil...because you weren't.

However, there comes a point when two people have completely taken over a thread and there is constant back and forthing - this gets confusing and can make it hard to weedle out any useable information. THAT'S why I posted what I did.

I actually value both of you here on VJ, you both provide a different aspect to VJ and are both informative, however I must just clarify that the reason I asked you both to take a breather is simply because it was taking over the thread - not due to any lack or civility or similar behaviour.

Perhaps, in the future, when quoting each other it might be best to remove all but the previous quote, this can makes things a bit clearer and can seem less cluttered when reading.

He said/She said can be quite enlightening to the readers.

If both are interested in learning, and not just proving their point...............

I absolutely agree, but it can be hard to tell, sometimes.

It can be. However, there are times when either or both sides feel strongly that their point is critical to understanding an issue. People often mistake this for one or both attempting to convince the other. In my case, nothing could be further from the truth. I'm writing for the reader's information, not to convince an opponent in a debate, but rather to assure the reader has enough information to make what for them, will be a wise choice. I think this is best done by clearly understanding the results to be achieved by the various choices available.

Back on topic, I think this OP can choose whether or to what extent to attempt to involve the USCIS in his family issues but that he would be unwise to expect his attempts to involve them to result in any penalty to his wife or release from I-864 obligations, unless there's a whole lot more going on than some suspect motives upon her arrival. If there is more going on, then he would need to gather some concrete evidence before altering his expectations.

Feeling strongly about a point doesn't make it a point that will be helpful or informative to the reader.

Well, people have a tendancy to quite often think their opinion is the most important but this isn't adding to the on topic discussion one bit. Generally comments like, "This is not necessarily so." without a suggested alternative, are counter productive, so their ommission is usually the more effective alternative.

"Opinions vary" makes your same point.

Mags, actually it was me who suggested that a "he said she said" battle with immigration court might be a long, protracted waste of time. There is currently a 2-year wait on case reviews in immigration court and I was merely suggesting to the OP that it might be better to cut losses at this point then fight any support issues that may come up later. Otherwise, I didnt intend to muddy any issues and have sympathy for the OP

Regards,

David and Nitadyah