POE with more than $10k....do we need documentation?

[millefleur 5,034]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm wondering about the declaration of money when entering at the POE with more than $10k.

 

Do we need documentation to show that this is indeed our money? Also, what exactly is the situation with the IRS? This money isn't income, it's savings that we have. Do we need documentation to prove that as well?

 

Are we supposed to declare this one when we do our taxes way down the road next year as well?

 

Just wondering if anyone else has done this and what the correct procedure is. Thanks in advance!

Edited May 25, 2017 by millefleur

[Ben&Zian 4,397]

Not sure entirely on the whole process but on the customs/declaration card when you enter the US will ask about how much money you have on you specifically about I believe it is $10k or more. As to if there is a "tax" on this or not I am unsure but they do ask.

[MaleAlpha 314]

Good question.

 

I will share with you my experience.

Back in 2013, I went through SEA airport with about $13k (declared of course) and they still pulled me into secondary.

I ended up being held for about 2+ hours while they probed me about the source of the money, what I was going to use it for etc. The CBP agents went through by bags and did the drug swipe thing a couple of times etc. After making a call to my business partner who I was going to make a payment to and getting satisfied with the reasons for the cash amount, they finally let me go.

 

Point is - Holding such huge sums in cash makes CBP feel as though you are dealing in something illicit and that's why you're not using the financial system (banks etc.) - basically trying to launder money. It doesn't really matter if you declare, that suspicion is still there and you will almost every time be pulled into secondary. If you don't declare, that's worse, it could be seized upon detection or you could get fined.

 

Personally, I will advise wiring the money to your US bank account instead. It's way safer and relieves you from the headache of dealing with a CBP officer who thinks you have something to hide. 

[andy78 178]

For tax and IRS, you only declare income during the tax year, not savings that you already have. However, you need to report foreign accounts during the tax year, so if you had that money in a foreign account during the tax year, you follow the normal IRS/FBAR process.

 

At POE, you need to declare the amount in two ways: First, on the customs declarations form, which they should give you on the plane or in the airport. Second, you need to go through customs to show them the declaration form and go through the process.

 

Here is my experience:

When I did this, they were going to let me through when they checked my form. But I was the one who pointed out that my form says I have $10k or more, and told them I need to go through customs, so they took me to customs.

They didn't ask about the source of the money (I guess that depends on the country), and I didn't bother to bring any documents proving that it is my money. They asked why I am carrying it and not wiring it, I said because it was easier for me. They then gave me another form to fill. End of story, no more questions. Took about 45 minutes.

 

Here is the question on the customs declarations form:

13. Mark an X in the Yes or No box. Are you or any family members traveling with you bringing $10,000 or more in U.S. dollars or foreign equivalent in any form into the United States? Read definition of monetary instruments on the reverse side of the form. Examples: coins, cash, personal or cashier's check, traveler's checks, money orders, stocks, bonds. If yes, you must complete the Customs Form 4790.

 

Edited May 25, 2017 by andy78

[millefleur 5,034]

10 minutes ago, MaleAlpha said:

Good question.

 

I will share with you my experience.

Back in 2013, I went through SEA airport with about $13k (declared of course) and they still pulled me into secondary.

I ended up being held for about 2+ hours while they probed me about the source of the money, what I was going to use it for etc. The CBP agents went through by bags and did the drug swipe thing a couple of times etc. After making a call to my business partner who I was going to make a payment to and getting satisfied with the reasons for the cash amount, they finally let me go.

 

Point is - Holding such huge sums in cash makes CBP feel as though you are dealing in something illicit and that's why you're not using the financial system (banks etc.) - basically trying to launder money. It doesn't really matter if you declare, that suspicion is still there and you will almost every time be pulled into secondary. If you don't declare, that's worse, it could be seized upon detection or you could get fined.

 

Personally, I will advise wiring the money to your US bank account instead. It's way safer and relieves you from the headache of dealing with a CBP officer who thinks you have something to hide. 

Oh my word.... That sounds absolutely awful.

 

The issue I'm having is that my US bank account oddly enough does not accept international transfers. Maybe I can open a new bank account online? I'm going to look that up now. I'm not physically in the US at the moment, hence why we just thought about bringing cash. Argh.

 

Thanks so much for your input. I was concerned about this. It's very helpful to have it confirmed.

 

1 minute ago, andy78 said:

For tax and IRS, you only declare income, not savings that you already have. However, you need to report foreign accounts during the tax year, so if you had that money in a foreign account during the tax year, you follow the normal IRS/FBAR process.

 

At POE, you need to declare the amount in two ways: First, on the customs declarations form, which they should give you on the plane or in the airport. Second, you need to go through customs to show them the declaration form and go through the process.

 

Here is my experience:

When I did this, they were going to let me through when they checked my form. But I was the one who pointed out that my form says I have $10k or more, and told them I need to go through customs, so they took me to customs.

They didn't ask about the source of the money (I guess that depends on the country), and I didn't bother to bring any documents proving that it is my money. They asked why I am carrying it and not wiring it, I said because it was easier for me. End of story, no more questions. Took about 45 minutes.

 

Here is the question on the customs declarations form:

13. Mark an X in the Yes or No box. Are you or any family members traveling with you bringing $10,000 or more in U.S. dollars or foreign equivalent in any form into the United States? Read definition of monetary instruments on the reverse side of the form. Examples: coins, cash, personal or cashier's check, traveler's checks, money orders, stocks, bonds. If yes, you must complete the Customs Form 4790.

 

Since we're coming from Russia I honestly don't think it's worth risking a traumatic POE experience. My husband has never even been to the US, I don't want his first few hours there to be like an interrogation.

 

OK good to know about the foreign accounts. Some of the money is gift money from my husband's family for our trip to the States. Is there a separate IRS form for gift money?

 

[MaleAlpha 314]

3 minutes ago, andy78 said:

For tax and IRS, you only declare income during the tax year, not savings that you already have. However, you need to report foreign accounts during the tax year, so if you had that money in a foreign account during the tax year, you follow the normal IRS/FBAR process.

 

At POE, you need to declare the amount in two ways: First, on the customs declarations form, which they should give you on the plane or in the airport. Second, you need to go through customs to show them the declaration form and go through the process.

 

Here is my experience:

When I did this, they were going to let me through when they checked my form. But I was the one who pointed out that my form says I have $10k or more, and told them I need to go through customs, so they took me to customs.

They didn't ask about the source of the money (I guess that depends on the country), and I didn't bother to bring any documents proving that it is my money. They asked why I am carrying it and not wiring it, I said because it was easier for me. They then gave me another form to fill. End of story, no more questions. Took about 45 minutes.

 

Here is the question on the customs declarations form:

13. Mark an X in the Yes or No box. Are you or any family members traveling with you bringing $10,000 or more in U.S. dollars or foreign equivalent in any form into the United States? Read definition of monetary instruments on the reverse side of the form. Examples: coins, cash, personal or cashier's check, traveler's checks, money orders, stocks, bonds. If yes, you must complete the Customs Form 4790.

 

I doubt it's because of the country - more likely it depends on the CBP officer. I am a US citizen and crossed with a US passport. My husband is the LPR.

[usmsbow 795]

I have done it once. i was returning to the States after working in South Korea for a couple years. I took my savings back via travelers checks because my US bank at the time was a local one that didn't accept international wire transfers. 

 

My experience was very similar to andy78s. I declared it, went to secondary, filled out a second form. I didn't need to provide any documentation about my $. Very quick, easy process. My story was pretty straight forward though and probably not that rare. 

 

In regards to your gift $ question, the giver is the one responsible for reporting it (if they are a US resident and gave the $ to you in the USA). The receiver does not have to include it on his/her tax return to the IRS. 

[millefleur 5,034]

Just now, usmsbow said:

I have done it once. i was returning to the States after working in South Korea for a couple years. I took my savings back via travelers checks because my US bank at the time was a local one that didn't accept international wire transfers. 

 

My experience was very similar to andy78s. I declared it, went to secondary, filled out a second form. I didn't need to provide any documentation about my $. Very quick, easy process. My story was pretty straight forward though and probably not that rare. 

 

In regards to your gift $ question, the giver is the one responsible for reporting it (if they are a US resident and gave the $ to you in the USA). The receiver does not have to include it on his/her tax return to the IRS. 

The giver in this case would be my husband's parents who are not US citizens. So I'm assuming they wouldn't need to do anything in terms of paperwork then.

 

I'm going to find a way to just transfer the money via bank. My mom says I could transfer it to her in the US so I guess we'll just have to do that. It's just complicated because now my mom is involved and this is not even her money. What should I do to make sure that my mom doesn't have to pay taxes since it's our money?

[usmsbow 795]

17 minutes ago, millefleur said:

The giver in this case would be my husband's parents who are not US citizens. So I'm assuming they wouldn't need to do anything in terms of paperwork then.

 

I'm going to find a way to just transfer the money via bank. My mom says I could transfer it to her in the US so I guess we'll just have to do that. It's just complicated because now my mom is involved and this is not even her money. What should I do to make sure that my mom doesn't have to pay taxes since it's our money?

 

The reason for the $10K declaration is to make it more difficult to launder money, it isn't income tax related. A one-time transfer of funds from abroad won't raise any red flags with the Dept of Treasury (I'm assuming the amount is between $10K and  $100K). You nor your mom have to worry about paying taxes on it since it is simply a transfer of savings abroad to a bank here in the US. There is also a foreign income tax exclusion of $101K (meaning if you work abroad, you don't owe US income tax for any amount below that). 

 

In other words, you don't have to worry about any taxes. 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2017 by usmsbow

[millefleur 5,034]

7 minutes ago, usmsbow said:

 

The reason for the $10K declaration is to make it more difficult to launder money, it isn't income tax related. A one-time transfer of funds from abroad won't raise any red flags with the Dept of Treasury (I'm assuming the amount is between $10K and  $100K). You nor your mom have to worry about paying taxes on it since it is simply a transfer of savings abroad to a bank here in the US. There is also a foreign income tax exclusion of $101K (meaning if you work abroad, you don't owe US income tax for any amount below that). 

 

In other words, you don't have to worry about any taxes. 

 

 

My mom was told by a family friend who is a tax accountant if she receives a bank transfer of more than $10k that the bank will report it to the IRS.

 

Maybe my mother should just talk to her bank and see what they say about this matter directly?

[usmsbow 795]

3 minutes ago, millefleur said:

My mom was told by a family friend who is a tax accountant if she receives a bank transfer of more than $10k that the bank will report it to the IRS.

 

Maybe my mother should just talk to her bank and see what they say about this matter directly?

Yes, reported to the IRS. That's it. Like I said, it is to monitor any potential money laundering activities. Since you're not laundering money, and this is a one-time transfer, you need not worry about it.

 

 

 

 

[millefleur 5,034]

Just now, usmsbow said:

Yes, reported to the IRS. That's it. Like I said, it is to monitor any potential money laundering activities. Since you're not laundering money, and this is a one-time transfer, you need not worry about it.

OK I see. Thanks for your input! It's been really helpful.

[trudi 1,317]

I brought a cashiers check for considerably more than $10,000, declared it on the customs declaration and was sent to secondary.

The officer I spoke to asked if I had signed the check, I said no as once it was signed anyone could use it, he told me until it was signed it wasn't considered money and sent me on my way!

I deposited it in my bank and 

I assume they did whatever reporting is necessary for such large sums.

[millefleur 5,034]

4 hours ago, trudi said:

I brought a cashiers check for considerably more than $10,000, declared it on the customs declaration and was sent to secondary.

The officer I spoke to asked if I had signed the check, I said no as once it was signed anyone could use it, he told me until it was signed it wasn't considered money and sent me on my way!

I deposited it in my bank and 

I assume they did whatever reporting is necessary for such large sums.

Unfortunately we don't have that option here because....Russia. They don't have checks here.

 

So we're just going with the bank transfer. Thanks for your help.

[Michael and Ganna 103]

Can you use Swift in Russia?