Will having an unofficial wedding ("cultural celebration") in Turkey affect our K-1?

[Joel C 0]

Quick question about how USCIS/Consulate views Turkish wedding ceremonies in relation to a K1 visa application. We are just starting the K-1 process (submitted the I-129F last week), and while that process is pending we would also like to have a ceremony in Turkey with her family. It would be a cultural ceremony only with no official marriage paperwork filed with the Turkish civil authority, but I’m not sure if USCIS would view that ceremony as an official marriage, and if so, how that would impact our K-1 application. Is there any chance that USCIS would consider us to be “married” and we would therefore need to apply for the spouse visa instead of K1?

 

Under Turkish law religious ceremonies have no legal effect, and weddings must be performed according to the civil marriage code of Turkey.  

And, USCIS states that a marriage is valid if:

• The marriage is valid under law in the place where the marriage happened.

Therefore it would follow that we will not be officially married and we can still apply for K-1 fiance visa. Does that sound accurate?

[Ben&Zian 4,397]

8 minutes ago, Joel C said:

Quick question about how USCIS/Consulate views Turkish wedding ceremonies in relation to a K1 visa application. We are just starting the K-1 process (submitted the I-129F last week), and while that process is pending we would also like to have a ceremony in Turkey with her family. It would be a cultural ceremony only with no official marriage paperwork filed with the Turkish civil authority, but I’m not sure if USCIS would view that ceremony as an official marriage, and if so, how that would impact our K-1 application. Is there any chance that USCIS would consider us to be “married” and we would therefore need to apply for the spouse visa instead of K1?

 

Under Turkish law religious ceremonies have no legal effect, and weddings must be performed according to the civil marriage code of Turkey.  

And, USCIS states that a marriage is valid if:

• The marriage is valid under law in the place where the marriage happened.

Therefore it would follow that we will not be officially married and we can still apply for K-1 fiance visa. Does that sound accurate?

 

It is highly recommended by a lot here on VJ to avoid such ceremonies or parties as they can often be seen as a wedding ceremony.

 

USCIS is not what you would need to worry about, it will be at the interview with the embassy.

 

It has happened time and time again where a simple engagement ceremony or "promise" ceremony has gotten people denied for the K-1 because they are "too married for a K-1" but "not married enough for a CR-1"

 

My honest advice would be avoid it..... but, if you dead set on doing it, don't let anyone see any photos and do not ever mention it to the embassy... but again I would just avoid it.

[RJandHamid 1,128]

This is a bit of a tricky subject. There have been cases were cultural/religious ceremonies have been viewed by USCIS as 'married' even if there is no documentation and not technically a legally recognized marriage. The K1 visa was denied in these cases. I'm sure there are some people who have gotten away with this though, perhaps by keeping quiet about the ceremony, however I think it is a bit risky. 

 

My fiance and I also discussed having a religious (non official) ceremony, but ultimately decided against it after doing research online and here on VJ as we did not want to have any additional risk to our visa being approved. 

Edited May 24, 2017 by RJandHamid

[LionessDeon 2,060]

Yes, it could.  Please use the advanced search tool and you will see the many posts already discussed on this topic.

Not. A. Good. Idea.

[Jojo92122 1,924]

This is not a tricky subject.  A simple search on VJ will yield many threads where the K-1 was denied because of an "unofficial wedding."

 

The US Embassy has 100% discretion to deny a K-1 if it SUSPECTS the couple may be married.  The US Embassy doesn't need to prove anything, just suspect.

 

DON'T DO THIS.  It doesn't matter that under Turkish laws, you are not married.

[Roel 7,191]

Yes it will affect it. It will probably result in visa denial. 

[Cyberfx1024 7,978]

As stated previously there have been cases already on VJ that couples have done the traditional party before the official party, and then get denied by the embassy for "being married". So I would not do it at all. 

[Love_A_Brit 33]

I would avoid the "unofficial" wedding.  Why blur the lines and give them cause for suspicion? 

[Joel C 0]

Thanks everyone for the solid advice. I honestly didn't expect this response; I figured it wouldn't be a big deal given that the ceremony would not be legal in Turkey and therefore not officially recognized in the U.S., either. We also received feedback from the a U.S. consulate affairs officer in Turkey that it would be better to pursue a K-1 rather than CR-1 (she did not explain why). So I think we will still have an engagement party but hold off on any type of formal or informal wedding celebration in Turkey until after we get married officially in the U.S. Thanks again, and wish us luck!

[sarahandyunus 133]

2 hours ago, Joel C said:

Thanks everyone for the solid advice. I honestly didn't expect this response; I figured it wouldn't be a big deal given that the ceremony would not be legal in Turkey and therefore not officially recognized in the U.S., either. We also received feedback from the a U.S. consulate affairs officer in Turkey that it would be better to pursue a K-1 rather than CR-1 (she did not explain why). So I think we will still have an engagement party but hold off on any type of formal or informal wedding celebration in Turkey until after we get married officially in the U.S. Thanks again, and wish us luck!

You could always do a traditional Turkish engagement ceremony in place! That is totally a thing in Turkey and would most likely look good as it involves the Turkish family and friends. From what I know, most people do one to celebrate their upcoming marriage! 

[NatO23 235]

I think @sarahandyunus has a good idea here! If you made it an engagement ceremony, you would still be able to celebrate with your family, surrounded by your traditions and customs, but there's no risk of it being misinterpreted.

 

Playing devil's advocate for a moment... I disagree with the notion of getting denied for partaking in an unofficial and non-binding (in the eyes of the law) ceremony. If my fiancé and I wanted to let her kids do a fun 'pretend wedding' for us and act out a ceremony in the living room, does that count as a reason for denial? I would very much assume not. I realise that certain religions and cultures have a much more binding and serious set of connotations for their religious ceremonies, and do not mean to belittle or disrespect that in any way with my comparison - my point is that I personally think that as long as you are not legally married before approval, and there is not marriage certificate in existence until you are in the US on your K1, you should be able to have an unofficial party or celebration at your own discretion.

 

My opinion counts for nothing at any embassy though, so don't take my advice ;-) I'm just offering you some support. I wish you were able to do what you wanted to for your religious reasons, without danger of denial!

[KozmicBlues 592]

Is it common for the culture there to have some kind of ceremony before the actual marriage? If not then like others said you should definitely proceed with caution. If it appears to them like a marriage then they may have a hard time believing that there wasn't any paperwork. I've read in some other posts that people have emailed the embassy directly to ask if it would be okay or not? Then if they say yes you can have that as evidence but only provide it to them if they ask. This could be risky though if you plan on having one regardless of what they tell you. Try searching the site for other topics with this question. 

 

We're having a formal engagement party in my fiance's country when I go to visit in a few months since we didn't have time to organize one when I was there last - will either be just before or just after he gets his visa depending on our approval dates. But this type of ceremony is common in his country so we're not worried about it being a problem, but we will also not mention or show photos of the party unless asked just in case. 

[Cyberfx1024 7,978]

2 hours ago, KozmicBlues said:

Is it common for the culture there to have some kind of ceremony before the actual marriage? If not then like others said you should definitely proceed with caution. If it appears to them like a marriage then they may have a hard time believing that there wasn't any paperwork. I've read in some other posts that people have emailed the embassy directly to ask if it would be okay or not? Then if they say yes you can have that as evidence but only provide it to them if they ask. This could be risky though if you plan on having one regardless of what they tell you. Try searching the site for other topics with this question. 

 

We're having a formal engagement party in my fiance's country when I go to visit in a few months since we didn't have time to organize one when I was there last - will either be just before or just after he gets his visa depending on our approval dates. But this type of ceremony is common in his country so we're not worried about it being a problem, but we will also not mention or show photos of the party unless asked just in case. 

As it is noted earlier in this thread it is NOT ADVISABLE to do the formal engagement ceremony or party. India is one of the countries that perceives this as a marriage ceremony and your K1 will be Denied. We have seen it plenty of times on here on VJ on people getting denied to that reason. I strictly remember a thread about a year ago where a couple in India took their engagement ceremony pictures to the interview, only for CO to look at them and decided that they were already married because of the ceremony. They were then denied and told to file a CR1. 

 

Edited May 25, 2017 by cyberfx1024

[Scandi 3,970]

The embassy might not make a distinction between an engagement party and a pre-wedding celebration. Both can be very harmful to your visa process depending on if the embassy thinks that the "whatever you want to call it"-party was an actual wedding act. I would advice not to go through with anything resembling a wedding party (no matter if you call it an engagement party or what have you), but it's up to you..

[sarahandyunus 133]

Wow, okay, I guess I was mistaken.

 

I'd say 95% of couples in Turkey have an engagement ceremony - but its actually essentially just a party where the family gathers to eat with the new couple after they've announced their engagement. We didn't do it due to logistics and everyone on the Turkish side was sad/offended.