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Peot

RFE received for meeting

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One word - Scary!

 

It's crazy to think that when you enter a relationship with someone, you're expected to keep documented evidence of being together for the prior 2 years. Things like receipts and statements and boarding passes all tossed away casually without a second thought, but oh the regret!

 

Anyway, we petitioned for our K-1 in December 19, 2016 and at that time provided an overkill amount of evidence that we had met.

We provided:

- Photograhs of us meeting (around 6 or so, all dated)

- Copy of plane ticket purchases travelling together (3 flights each)

- Signed letters of intent to marry from both of us

- A statement detailing how we met when, etc..

 

After waiting 5 months, we received a notice of Request For Evidence (RFE) that we did not submit enough to prove that we had met in the prior 2 years since filing, and that we did not prove the circumstances of us meeting.

 

We have now supplied:

- Blue "notice of action" document

- Table of contents

- A new statement detailing the circumstances of us meeting

- New statements of intent to marry, reworded, and signed again

- Passport info pages and admission stamps for BOTH of us

- Boarding passes + Itinerary of a couple trips to visit my fiance

- An additional 4 photos (dated, locations, and names)

- Engagement ring receipt (purchased while IN THE UNITED STATES, with my full name on the receipt)

- Photograph of the engagement ring, dated

 

Do you think this is overkill? Is this not enough? Should we have done anything differently? Where did we go wrong the first time?

 

All I have to say is that this forum has been EXTREMELY helpful in easing my worry about this. I think my biggest worry is that we thought we were crossing our T's and dotting our I's the first time with the photographs and plane tickets together, but those became secondary evidence somehow? The letters of intent weren't valid somehow? I have so many questions about what I could have done differently, and perhaps your feedback will help others avoid the same obvious mistakes.

 

It seems like they're just asking for information that we already gave them.... and I'm not sure how we could really improve on what we've now sent them. 

 

Hopefully it's good enough..... crossing my fingers.

Edited by Peot
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The requirement to show that you had met in the 2 years prior is pretty key to the application, so I'm not surprised you got RFEd for that. I think what you're sending now should do the trick (namely the passport stamps, boarding passes and photos together).  

 

In terms of "Where did we go wrong the first time?", if you didn't send them any evidence that you'd met face-to-face in your first package to satisfy the "met in the 2 years prior" rule, then that's where you went wrong. No biggy, just slowed things down a tad.  

 

Photos aren't evidence of the "2 year" part (they are evidence of meeting, but not WHEN) and neither are letters etc. Buying plane tickets doesn't mean you got on the plane, could be faked.

 

Basically, you have to put your suspicious hat on and think to yourself "what evidence would be difficult for someone to produce if they were faking it".  

 

The passport stamps are government issued items, so they're really good. That, coupled with some evidence of your activity while there (that receipt, for example) makes it a lot easier for them to tick the "yes they met with in the last 2 years" box.

Edited by lost_at_sea

* I-130/CR-1 visa by Direct Consular Filing in London
3rd May 2013 - Married in London

7th May 2013 - I-130 filed
4th June 2013 - NOA2 (approved)
16th July 2013 - Interview (approved)
30th July 2013 - POE San Francisco
29th August 2013 - 2 year green card arrived

 

* How? Read my DCF London I-130 for CR1/IR1 Spouse Guide

* Removal of Conditions (RoC) via California Service Centre
1st May 2015 - 90 day RoC window opened
6th May 2015 - I-751 filed (delivered 8th May, cheque cashed 18th May)
7th August 2015 - Approved / GC production

27th August 2015 - 10 year green card arrived

* Naturalisation (Citizenship) via Phoenix Lockbox

* San Francisco Field Office:
1st May 2016 - N-400 window opened
20th August 2016 - N-400 filed

26th August 2016 - NOA1
13th September 2016 - Biometrics

12th January 2017 - Biometrics (again)
30th May 2017 - Interview (approved)
7th June 2017 - Oath

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1 minute ago, lost_at_sea said:

In terms of "Where did we go wrong the first time?", if you didn't send them any evidence that you'd met face-to-face in your first package to satisfy the "met in the 2 years prior" rule, then that's where you went wrong. No biggy, just slowed things down a tad.  Photos aren't evidence of the "2 year" part and neither are letters etc. 

So the most important thing is that we had met in the 2 years prior, but I was certain that plane tickets of our travel (with the accompanying photos as secondary) would be enough. For example, if I have plane tickets for us travelling to London, and we have a picture of us together standing in front of the Tower of London..... I would have thought that would do the trick.

 

Meanwhile, the passport stamps are VERY broad... they are dated with the date of entry into the country, but don't show WHERE you went in the country. For example I have stamps of me entering Chicago, Detroit, New York.... and some are on route to her, and some aren't. I'm confused as to why those are key and the above was not.

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Just now, Peot said:

So the most important thing is that we had met in the 2 years prior, but I was certain that plane tickets of our travel (with the accompanying photos as secondary) would be enough. For example, if I have plane tickets for us travelling to London, and we have a picture of us together standing in front of the Tower of London..... I would have thought that would do the trick.

 

Meanwhile, the passport stamps are VERY broad... they are dated with the date of entry into the country, but don't show WHERE you went in the country. For example I have stamps of me entering Chicago, Detroit, New York.... and some are on route to her, and some aren't. I'm confused as to why those are key and the above was not.

I updated my comment a little after. Sorry. :)

 

Anyway. This is me playing officer again and imagining how they might scrutinise.  The Tower of London photo - that could have been taken any time, not necessarily on that trip. It shows you met, but doesn't prove the when.

 

Having the passport stamps is important because they're government issued, so in their eyes, less likely to be faked.  Travel itineraries are documents made by private companies that they can't verify. 

 

It's a combination of things.  They want hard stuff (government issued things, for example) with corroborating secondary stuff (like boarding passes). They use them all together to form an idea of how likely it is that you actually met the criteria that they can't possibly really, truly, know (without a time machine or having personally met you both at the same time on that trip). 

* I-130/CR-1 visa by Direct Consular Filing in London
3rd May 2013 - Married in London

7th May 2013 - I-130 filed
4th June 2013 - NOA2 (approved)
16th July 2013 - Interview (approved)
30th July 2013 - POE San Francisco
29th August 2013 - 2 year green card arrived

 

* How? Read my DCF London I-130 for CR1/IR1 Spouse Guide

* Removal of Conditions (RoC) via California Service Centre
1st May 2015 - 90 day RoC window opened
6th May 2015 - I-751 filed (delivered 8th May, cheque cashed 18th May)
7th August 2015 - Approved / GC production

27th August 2015 - 10 year green card arrived

* Naturalisation (Citizenship) via Phoenix Lockbox

* San Francisco Field Office:
1st May 2016 - N-400 window opened
20th August 2016 - N-400 filed

26th August 2016 - NOA1
13th September 2016 - Biometrics

12th January 2017 - Biometrics (again)
30th May 2017 - Interview (approved)
7th June 2017 - Oath

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Makes sense. I also forgot to mention in my initial post that we also submitted a credit card statement of purchases made on both of our trips to London and to my trip to the United States to visit her. Again, it's a third-party private company document that shows I was there at that time.

 

Still crossing my fingers.

 

My other concern (and it's probably foolish) is that originally I sent in a "wet" or "inked" intent letter. The new one I sent in only has a printed signature that I had emailed to my fiance. I hope they don't see the NEW intent letter and deny us because it doesn't meet their criteria. It wasn't something I remembered needed to be done when I submitted it..... but considering sending in a new intent letter is overkill anyway, I'm hoping it's not an issue now.

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I think you'll be fine now. :D

* I-130/CR-1 visa by Direct Consular Filing in London
3rd May 2013 - Married in London

7th May 2013 - I-130 filed
4th June 2013 - NOA2 (approved)
16th July 2013 - Interview (approved)
30th July 2013 - POE San Francisco
29th August 2013 - 2 year green card arrived

 

* How? Read my DCF London I-130 for CR1/IR1 Spouse Guide

* Removal of Conditions (RoC) via California Service Centre
1st May 2015 - 90 day RoC window opened
6th May 2015 - I-751 filed (delivered 8th May, cheque cashed 18th May)
7th August 2015 - Approved / GC production

27th August 2015 - 10 year green card arrived

* Naturalisation (Citizenship) via Phoenix Lockbox

* San Francisco Field Office:
1st May 2016 - N-400 window opened
20th August 2016 - N-400 filed

26th August 2016 - NOA1
13th September 2016 - Biometrics

12th January 2017 - Biometrics (again)
30th May 2017 - Interview (approved)
7th June 2017 - Oath

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Hope so! I'll definitely keep this thread updated with progress on the RFE now for others.

 

For me, it's difficult to see what else I could have possibly sent in to show (and PROVE) that we had met within the past 2 years now, and that's probably a good thing. I just wanted to make sure I didn't overlook something obvious like the passport stamps the first time.

 

If I were to sit here and consider what else I could send in, I'm practically at a loss. We had even considered getting a signed statement from friends / family, but I don't know that it would have been primary evidence without them being able to prove the statement is true and not forged. Thoughts? Not that it helps me, but it might be nice to know if "that would work" for others.

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I think you're good to go. I don't think you're missing anything, either.  

 

You're sending them a lot. Like I said - they actually can't be 100% certain about whether you met or not in the 2 years. They play detective a little bit with the evidence you give them, so the easier you make the case for them the easier it is for them to just say YES. You're responding to the RFE with good evidence (they'll be glad to see the correctly date passport stamps). I suspect you'll get an approval on this shortly after they get your response and revisit your case.

 

The only other thing you could have sent, but again it's not even really good evidence, is some affidavits from friends/family who were with you at those meetings. But they're also easily faked, which is why I wouldn't put any thought to them unless they bounce you back again with another RFE.

 

At least you know they're looking at your case, now! :)

* I-130/CR-1 visa by Direct Consular Filing in London
3rd May 2013 - Married in London

7th May 2013 - I-130 filed
4th June 2013 - NOA2 (approved)
16th July 2013 - Interview (approved)
30th July 2013 - POE San Francisco
29th August 2013 - 2 year green card arrived

 

* How? Read my DCF London I-130 for CR1/IR1 Spouse Guide

* Removal of Conditions (RoC) via California Service Centre
1st May 2015 - 90 day RoC window opened
6th May 2015 - I-751 filed (delivered 8th May, cheque cashed 18th May)
7th August 2015 - Approved / GC production

27th August 2015 - 10 year green card arrived

* Naturalisation (Citizenship) via Phoenix Lockbox

* San Francisco Field Office:
1st May 2016 - N-400 window opened
20th August 2016 - N-400 filed

26th August 2016 - NOA1
13th September 2016 - Biometrics

12th January 2017 - Biometrics (again)
30th May 2017 - Interview (approved)
7th June 2017 - Oath

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17 minutes ago, Peot said:

So the most important thing is that we had met in the 2 years prior, but I was certain that plane tickets of our travel (with the accompanying photos as secondary) would be enough. For example, if I have plane tickets for us travelling to London, and we have a picture of us together standing in front of the Tower of London..... I would have thought that would do the trick.

 

Meanwhile, the passport stamps are VERY broad... they are dated with the date of entry into the country, but don't show WHERE you went in the country. For example I have stamps of me entering Chicago, Detroit, New York.... and some are on route to her, and some aren't. I'm confused as to why those are key and the above was not.

Playing devil's advocate here....

 

How does the adjudicator know it's the Tower of London? How does he know when the photo was taken? Plane tickets doesn't mean they were ever used. For the 2 year meeting requirement, people tend to put way too much emphasis on photos instead of proving what was actually asked of them (which is usually much simpler). :)

 

True. But they prove you were in the same country at least, which is already more than the photos would do. No single piece of evidence is usually sufficient...it's a combination of everything.

Timelines:

ROC:

Spoiler

7/27/20: Sent forms to Dallas lockbox, 7/30/20: Received by USCIS, 8/10 NOA1 electronic notification received, 8/1/ NOA1 hard copy received

AOS:

Spoiler

AOS (I-485 + I-131 + I-765):

9/25/17: sent forms to Chicago, 9/27/17: received by USCIS, 10/4/17: NOA1 electronic notification received, 10/10/17: NOA1 hard copy received. Social Security card being issued in married name (3rd attempt!)

10/14/17: Biometrics appointment notice received, 10/25/17: Biometrics

1/2/18: EAD + AP approved (no website update), 1/5/18: EAD + AP mailed, 1/8/18: EAD + AP approval notice hardcopies received, 1/10/18: EAD + AP received

9/5/18: Interview scheduled notice, 10/17/18: Interview

10/24/18: Green card produced notice, 10/25/18: Formal approval, 10/31/18: Green card received

K-1:

Spoiler

I-129F

12/1/16: sent, 12/14/16: NOA1 hard copy received, 3/10/17: RFE (IMB verification), 3/22/17: RFE response received

3/24/17: Approved! , 3/30/17: NOA2 hard copy received

 

NVC

4/6/2017: Received, 4/12/2017: Sent to Riyadh embassy, 4/16/2017: Case received at Riyadh embassy, 4/21/2017: Request case transfer to Manila, approved 4/24/2017

 

K-1

5/1/2017: Case received by Manila (1 week embassy transfer??? Lucky~)

7/13/2017: Interview: APPROVED!!!

7/19/2017: Visa in hand

8/15/2017: POE

 

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After reading every post and the OP's comments, I'm very surprised you received an RFE from your initial petition.  

The evidence we provided of my relationship and meeting with-in 2 years was very similar to yours : 

* Bus travel tickets

* Plane flights of trips we took together

* Photos of us together at key landmarks: Space Needle, Waikiki Beach, Vancouver Science World Center


My fiance lives in Vancouver BC and I live in Seattle, which is about a 2.5 hour drive.  Although we cross the US and Canada border 2-3 times per month, they never stamp our passports upon entry.  So we had no passport stamps to provide.  And we received no RFE's.

Goes to show that every situation is different, and the USCIS staff reviewing cases are all human and will use their own judgement and experience when adjudicating.  Some are fine with bare minimums, while others want tons of evidence.  Its always best to over-prepare than under.

With that being said, the extra documentation you plan on providing regarding your RFE looks great.  Definitely give those passport stamps that match your travel tickets and hotel stay together.   

Good luck!

 

K-1 Visa Journey

11/14/2016: K1 Visa Application Mailed To Dallas Lock Box

11/17/2016: K1 Visa Application Received Date

11/22/2016: Check Cashed By US Dept of Homeland Security

11/22/2016: Received NOA1 Text and Email - USCIS California Service Center

11/23/2016: Received NOA1 Hard Copy In The Mail

02/07/2017: Received NOA2 Approval Online - 77 Days From NOA1 Date

02/11/2017: Received NOA2 Hard Copy In The Mail

03/03/2017: Case Received By NVC

03/08/2017: Called NVC And Received Case # and Invoice # - CEAC Website Shows Case Is "Ready"

03/09/2017: Downloaded Packet 3 From Canadian Consulate Website - Emailed Packet 3 at 12:30am PST

03/09/2017: Received Return Email Packet 4 at 1pm PST

03/09/2017: Scheduled Interview Per Packet 4 Instructions

04/19/2017: K1 Visa Interview At Montreal US Embassy - Visa Approved - 148 Days From NOA1 Date

04/26/2017: CEAC Status Changed From "Administrative Processing" To "Issued"

04/28/2017: Visa In Hand

05/28/2017: POE Peace Arch Crossing - Blaine, WA USA - Experience Was Very Friendly And Welcoming

07/14/2017: Wedding Day

AOS Journey

08/19/2017: AOSEAD, AP Mailed To Chicago Lock Box

08/29/2017: Check Cashed By US Dept of Homeland Security

08/30/2017: Received NOA1 Text and Email For AOS, EAD, AP

09/05/2017: Received NOA1 Hard Copies In The Mail For AOS, EAD, AP

09/19/2017: Biometrics Completed

09/26/2017: USCIS Website Shows "Interview Ready To Be Scheduled By USCIS"

11/20/2017: Received EAD and AP Approval Letters

12/04/2017: Received EAD/AP Combo Card

12/07/2018: Received Text notification AOS interview has been scheduled

01/09/2019: AOS Interview Date - Approved

01/17/2019: Green Card In Hand

ROC Journey

10/11/2020: Petition For ROC Window Opens

10/17/2020: Petition For ROC Mailed To USCIS Phoenix

10/20/2020: Petition For ROC Delivered To USCIS Phoenix

11/04/2020: Check Cashed By US Dept of Homeland Security

11/04/2020: Received NOA 1 Text and Email

11/10/2020: Received NOA1 Hard Copy In The Mail For ROC

11/12/2020: Online - Case Was Updated To Show Fingerprints Were Taken

06/22/2021: Online - ROC Approved

07/02/2021: 10 Year Green Card In Hand

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Right... I mean the fact that I traveled with a passport at all IS technically optional (I could have driven with a special driving ID since I'm Canadian), and I've regularly noticed that TSA / CBP do not always stamp your passport. I wonder if people need to start requesting this and if they'd get scrutinized at the border for requesting this?

 

For example, my fiance visited me in January and they stamped her passport, but her visit in September got no stamp. IF, hypothetically, she had only visited me the one time in September, we'd be up the creek without a paddle for her passport admission info.

 

EDIT: Yeah... probably requesting those stamps is a bad idea for immigration officials.

"Hey, can you please stamp my passport?"

"Why?"

"So I can get married!"

"Denied entry. Return with ties to your country"

 

 

Edited by Peot
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This is the reason why they ask for "evidence". It is almost impossible to prove that you met after a point in time (which happens to be two years prior to filing the petition). So you build up as much evidence of it as you can and then hope the USCIS officer we will be able to piece it together. For example, a passport stamp that shows you entering London in December along with photos of the two of you in London dressed in winter wear, a hotel receipt and other receipts all dated in December. All

together shows that there is a strong likelihood that you met in December in London. 

Timeline in brief:

Married: September 27, 2014

I-130 filed: February 5, 2016

NOA1: February 8, 2016 Nebraska

NOA2: July 21, 2016

Interview: December 6, 2016 London

POE: December 19, 2016 Las Vegas

N-400 filed: September 30, 2019

Interview: March 22, 2021 Seattle

Oath: March 22, 2021 COVID-style same-day oath

 

Now a US citizen!

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Filed: K-1 Visa Country: Switzerland
Timeline
10 hours ago, geowrian said:

True. But they prove you were in the same country at least, which is already more than the photos would do. No single piece of evidence is usually sufficient...it's a combination of everything.

This is what we did that hopefully puts the USCIS mind at ease. 

 

1. Copy of passport stamps -  along with boarding passes when I visited.

2. Hotel Itinerary copy - also a receipt for the credit card charge transaction from the hotel itself.

3. Pictures of us together all labeled date and location - along with a receipt from one of the museums we visited.  Should help prove we weren't using a green screen.  Also there are pictures of a birthday party she threw for me.  The passport stamps, hotel receipt etc. corroborate that fact that indeed I was there on my B-day.  

 

Basically we made a conscious effort to help make the dots connect.  Hope no RFE comes our way for that part of the packet. :)        

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Filed: AOS (apr) Country: Spain
Timeline

I think you should be fine now, but for future reference and as a tip for other people, we also included my i94 travel history, that shows all the POE's and departure with dates for all my trips to the US. That along with passport stamps is a strong proof of visit, I figured.

K1 Visa process 

Spoiler

30 March 2017 (Thu): i-129f sent

6 April 2017 (Thu): i-129f received- NOA1 RECEIVED DATE

12 April 2017 (Wed): NOA1 email/text confirmation

17 April 2017 (Mon): NOA1 hardcopy

10 August 2017 (Thu): NOA2 Approval date - 14 August 2017 (Mon): NOA2 hardcopy

24 August 2017 (Thu): NVC received and case # assigned (provided through phone call 8/25)

29 August 2017 (Tue): NVC left

30 August 2017 (Wed): Consulate Received (READY at the ceac tracker)

01 September 2017 (Fri): Packet 3 (instructions) received / Packet 3 sent (documents mailed)

02 September 2017 (Sat): NVC letter in the mail

08 September 2017 (Fri): Packet 4 received

11 September 2017 (Mon): Medical exam

21 September 2017 (Thu): Interview- APPROVED

26 September 2017 (Tue): Visa Issued

28 September 2017 (Thu): Visa Delivered (VOH)

20 October 2017 (Fri): POE Dallas Fort Worth

 

AOS/EAD/AP process 

Spoiler

08 January 2018 (Mon): AOS/EAD/AP package sent

09 January 2018 (Tue): Received date

10 January 2018 (Wed): Notice date

11 January 2018 (Thu): AOS/EAD/AP NOA texts and emails

16 January 2018 (Tue): NOAs hard copies received in the mail

26 January 2018 (Fri): Biometrics appointment in the mail

09 February 2018 (Fri): Biometrics appointment

05 April 2018 (Thu)Green Card Interview scheduled (email and text received 08 April, Sunday)

12 April 2018 (Thu): Green Card Interview appointment letter received in the mail

15 May 2018 (Tue): Green Card Interview: APPROVAL / Card is being produced

19 May 2018 (Sat): 1-797 Approval Notice received

23 May 2018 (Wed): Card was mailed

24 May 2018 (Thu): Post office picked up the mail. Tracking number.

25 May 2018 (Fri): Green Card RECEIVED

 

ROC process 

18 February 2020 (Tue): ROC package sent

19 February 2020 (Wed) Received date (also in Notice)

24 February 2020 (Mon) Notice date / ROC text and email

28 February 2020 (Fri) NOA/ Extension Letter in the mail

13 May 2020 (Wed) Case updated (Fingerprints were taken) - Notification received 18 May (Mon), stating I don't have to appear for a biometrics appointment

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