Kiev, notarized statement of no prior marriage

[RobertM54 36]

Rough interview in Kiev. The very young CO was hostile. She interviewed Irina and me separately. Going over our correspondence line by line to find things to question us about.

We waited an hour and a half after the interview, then an older, friendlier woman called Irina into the privacy room for more questions.

So we get a 221g asking for a notarized statement she has never been married. This may relate to the 5 months she spent in Turkey. Has anyone heard of this in Kiev? Since they already have signed statements from her that she is free to marry (letter of intent) and has no prior marriages (325g) what is the purpose of a notarized signed statement?

They also want her son's birth certificate even though we did not pursue his K2 at this time. His dad is a jerk so there is no reason to pursue the K2 until we are married.

[gregcrs2 1,777]

You are obviously going through extra scrutiny. Sorry to hear that. Could it be additional suspicion resulting from separate interviews or something in the documentation?

[RobertM54 36]

Age discrimination. Irina is half my age. The kid who interviewed us cannot imagine such a relationship.

There are a few issues in the forms. Nothing material. She is looking for a reason to reject.

[TBoneTX 43,058]

This brings back memories of the fun that Mrs.T-B.-to-be and I had at the same stage...

[RobertM54 36]

I just put Irina on the train back to Nikolaev. It is 10 hours later and the bitterness and anger are still twisting my gut into a knot. Our bad luck to get such a young and inexperienced CO. I have probably been in the work force twice as long as this kid has been alive and I had to stand there and stay calm and be polite while she grilled me about the validity of my relationship. She is going through our chat logs looking for dirt and asking inane questions and never once asks the most important question to either Irina or me - "why do you think your relationship will work?". Her 20 something liberal American worldview cannot conceive of it. Especially given the two Caucasians standing in front of her. She might have thought to ask the question if Irina was an Australian Bushwoman and I was a Japanese Sumo Wrestler. It is highly likely that Irina's and my world views are as foreign to her as Chinese peasants but she looks at us in the context of her inexperience and immaturity and cannot see the reality of what we have.

We came up to her window together and she immediately asks me to sit down. She questions Irina for about 15 minutes. She notably did not ask Irina why she loved me. She did learn that Irina would be perfectly happy to stay in Ukraine if I would retire now and come to her. So the green card groupie gambit is off the table. When she questioned me, this girl seemed to be shocked, shocked I say, that I mentioned to Irina that something I wanted her to do would be good evidence for the visa interview. The interview is all about evidence and this kid is surprised people honestly talk about the required evidence in chat logs. Of course, Irina, in her stubborn naivety did not do it.

The first interview concluded before 10.00. It was after 11:30 before the second interview with a more senior CO. I have no certainty about what transpired, but I suspect the kid wanted to reject the petition out of hand and her supervisor wanted to be more circumspect - especially since I was in the building. She was friendlier than the first and particularly grilled Irina about all of the people in the pictures. My translator's mother and sister are in the USA and wants to come. He is well known at the embassy. This CO remarked on that-I do not know if it is a positive or a negative.

The information requested on the 221g is not relevant to the decision on the K1 visa. I think it was a smokescreen to get me out of the building and on my way back to the USA. It also gives them time to figure out what to do with an admittedly difficult petition. The difficulty is not due to the facts of the petition but in the brokenness of the K-1 visa process. This kid wants to deny the petition for a bunch of picayune reasons whilst even Trump has admitted that millions of people who have committed and are continuing to commit egregious immigration law violations are going to be allowed to stay. Allowing these millions of people with serious violations to stay with virtual no vetting completely invalidates the rational behind the State Department putting large barriers in front of family immigration for US citizens.

Part of the brokenness in the process is they cannot seem to ask the question: "why is approving this petition good for America?". Irina would love for me to retire now, move to Nikolaev, and forget about America. I want to get to a position where we can spend the winters where it does not snow and I am not there yet. If the State Department understood the macro-economic impact of keeping guys like me in the workforce until 70 and perhaps longer, then they would set up a matchmaking service to hook us up with hot young Ukrainian single mothers.

I do not know what is going to happen. A good supervisor wants to support her employees, so if the kid is determined to destroy our happiness, then they may let this sit in AP limbo. The advantage to them is they can claim I should just be patient if I start to fire my bullets. The disadvantage to America is I am now seriously planning my exit from the work force.

[TBoneTX 43,058]

If you're still on the scene, get back to the embassy and insist on speaking with the IV Unit chief.

At least the second interview was same-day. This is excellent support for the idea that it's valuable for the petitioner to be on the consular premises during the beneficiary's initial interview.

Edited November 16, 2016 by TBoneTX

[*Snowdrop* 603]

It sounds like they suspect she has been married before and has lied on the application about it. As they asked for her son's birth certificate perhaps they suspect that she was married to her son's father at some point.

I'd be surprised if the age gap is bothering them, it's not uncommon for age gaps of that type (man older than woman) for this country.

It might be as simple as providing the documents needed and everything is fine.

[RobertM54 36]

That would be interesting. I thought marriages were recorded in the passport. The child has her family name.

[RobertM54 36]

So apparently information about marriage and divorce is not necessarily in the domestic passport. So Ukraine is apparently like the USA in that reporting of past marriages is a bit of an honor system thing. The records are there and not hard to find, but someone has to look.

[Ksenia_O 695]

They do stamp your passport during the wedding/marriage ceremony. But if for some reason you changed your passport, the "marriage" stamp is not carried over to a new one. Unless you request to do so.

It's a little different when divorce. Depends where you proceeded. If through ZAGS (if both agree, no "troubles", no kids or kids are older than 18 y.o.) - they stamp your passport anyway.

If through Court - they don't do it in the Court. You have to go to ZAGS with your Divorce Decree to get your passport stamped. A lot of people, being divorced in Court, just ignore doing that.

I might be mistaken, but I doubt there is a kind of available and really working "system" in Ukraine, to look at someone's current marital status.

Yes, ZAGS does the record about birth, marriage, divorce, death and etc. . But to get any copy of that - it's literally a pain in your behind, along with long wait.

About statement you were asked during the interview. My sister did this, applying for her spouse visa, for Great Britain.

I've never heard that it was required for the US, but anyway - this form, the statement, does exist. Any notary in Ukraine can get it done.Your Fiancee will need her birth certificate, passport and ID number.

Good luck.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Ksenia_O

[RobertM54 36]

Thank you. It just seems weird. Why would this even come up? If the age difference does not bother them, why was she so aggressive in the interview? What could set her off?

[gregcrs2 1,777]

I'm sure the age difference bothered them. They are just not saying it.

[Michael and Ganna 103]

Robert, If she was married at ZAGS, yes your passports get married as well. Now they will not place the stamp in American passports....You indicated that she spent some time in Turkey.....They do not place a "marriage stamp" in the passport....

I think the Embassy is suspicious that there is a prior marriage....If a notary letter to that fact is requested it will be on file that she lied....and banned for life. She raised her hand to take a oath to tell the truth....now why are asking for a letter stating the same...I don't know, but I am smelling fish

[Ksenia_O 695]

I don't think it's about the age difference, Robert.. Yes, it's not something that inherent to Ukrainians, but marriages with a big age difference happen and the Embassy definitely has deal with this time to time..

I think it's "Turkey" issue, and I'll try to explain why i think so.

As you, probably, know, It's important for Ukrainians to have a some kind of travel history BEFORE we apply for a Schengen, GB or US visa. And for a lot of Ukrainians Turkey is the first country on this "build your travel history" journey. Because we don't have to go to the Embassy - we literally buy the visa at Turkish airport, after landing there.

Or it could be Egypt (visa "at the airport" as well), and we can kill two birds there, visiting Israel.

Or - UAE.

So, basically, the popular "algorithm" of building your travel history is:

1. Turkey/Egypt (Israel)/UAE.

2. Schengen Area countries - usually you get a Visa, if you can prove your ties with Ukraine and you didn't overstay or didn't violate any Law in the countries from p.1.

3. Good chance to get a GB visa (or Canada, or Australia, or US) - p.1 & p.2.

In addition to all above, Turkey is a secular country. It's an associate member of the Western European Union since 1992. The country joined the EU Customs Union in 1995 and has been in formal accession negotiations with the EU since 2005. The other defining aspect of Turkey's foreign policy is the country's long-standing strategic alliance with the United States...

Besides, it's a great resort. Millions Europeans, including Ukrainians&Russians, spend their vacations there. The season lasts 5 months, from May till Sept./Oct. And the hotels hire people for the "season" all time, LEGALLY. English speaking, Russian speaking, Ukrainian speaking people...

Don't get me wrong, Robert. Will all due respect to you and I wish you all the best.. But you've mentioned before Irina worked 5 months in Turkey without working visa. I might be mistaken, but looks like she overstayed and worked illegally there.. And the US Embassy, probably, sees: 1) she overstayed and work illegally (law violation), 2) it wasn't mentioned in her G-325 for I-129F... A lie?...

Still... At this point I think your case is under supervisor review, and ANY decision can be made, 50/50...

Did the Embassy take her passport?... If they did, there is a hope, and i would just go ahead and bring what they ask for - copy of her son's birth certificate and the statement. Do it ASAP. And don't drop it off through security guys at the Embassy - do it officially, via TNT. Then - I would give the Embassy 5-10 business days to process the additional information. After that - inquire your case status...

Once again - good luck, and please, keep us updated...

Edited November 17, 2016 by Ksenia_O

[RobertM54 36]

Robert, If she was married at ZAGS, yes your passports get married as well. Now they will not place the stamp in American passports....You indicated that she spent some time in Turkey.....They do not place a "marriage stamp" in the passport....

I think the Embassy is suspicious that there is a prior marriage....If a notary letter to that fact is requested it will be on file that she lied....and banned for life. She raised her hand to take a oath to tell the truth....now why are asking for a letter stating the same...I don't know, but I am smelling fish

Or a good fig leaf for a 20 something CO to keep the application in AP indefinitely. It is impossible for a person to prove they have never been married.

Edited November 17, 2016 by RobertM54