Should I apply for Citizenship due to lying on I-9 20 years ago?

[dazedandconfused6 6]

Hello all,

Here is my quick story. Came here as student, fell in love got married while still going to school. Finished school. Had baby. Didn't apply for green card until then since I thought that I would get a H1 job immediately after finishing school.

Since I could not get any employer to sponsor me, and needed money. Also since unauthorized work is forgiven for spouses of citizens, I applied at job at a major retailer and lied on I9. This was sometime in 1998. (I think I checked the combo box of citizen/national but my lawyer has me doubting that now. But 10% chance I checked greencard).

Then we applied for green card. I listed my job on application. My green card was approved.

3 years later, I decided to apply for citizenship but saw the question about false claim of citizenship. So I consulted a lawyer. He said to wait 10 years and then apply for citizenship.

In 2008, consulted another lawyer, he said there is too much going on with immigration, just renew green card now and get citizenship in 10 years since consequences of false claim are so high.

Now once again my green card is about to expire (in 2 years). With current political environment, I have my friends and family telling me to apply for citizenship as soon as possible. While unlikely, they are worried that greencards might get cancelled. (I know I know).

I went to 2 lawyers this time and strangely they both recommended I should apply for citizenship and I have nothing to worry about. Even after I told them that I listed the job on my green card application. They said since now I9 has separate boxes for citizen and national, IO are not focusing on old I9s and even if they do, I9 likely doesn't exist.

I asked them what should I say if IO ask me about how I got the job. One said to say you meant US national. Other asked me if I was really sure about which box I checked, I said about 90%. He said then tell them you are not sure which box you checked.

They both seem convinced I have nothing to worry about but they also told me if I am really nervous than immigration officer will pick on it and then they might investigate my application further. They also said that green card will not be cancelled that easily. If I am too afraid to apply for citizenship then I can continue to renew greencard. They usually just look at criminal background check during greencard. But there is always a chance they might look at the original application.

Normally, I would not be so worried about anything, worse comes to worse I go back to my old country. But I have 4 kids, my eldest daughter is in college. My youngest is in middle school. I just want to be here long enough to get my children through college. I know I made a mistake but I am hoping my mistake won't effect my kids.

What would you do? Should I risk applying for citizenship given my case or should I just continue to renew my green card? Any chance they will repeal this law or add waivers for it? (I also read about Cancellation but I am not sure if I would qualify since it happened within 7 years.)

[EM_Vandaveer 2,364]

You are lucky that it was the old I-9. If you're not sure what you checked, you should say so. If they dig it up (unlikely) and the citizen/national checkbox is checked, you can say you meant to claim to be a US national NOT a US citizen.

Waiting 10 years does not make a difference. False claim to US citizenship is a permanent, unwaiverable ban, but luckily you can get out of it due to the old I-9 form.

Edited July 18, 2016 by EM_Vandaveer

[subwayguy 100]

Hello all,

Here is my quick story. Came here as student, fell in love got married while still going to school. Finished school. Had baby. Didn't apply for green card until then since I thought that I would get a H1 job immediately after finishing school.

Since I could not get any employer to sponsor me, and needed money. Also since unauthorized work is forgiven for spouses of citizens, I applied at job at a major retailer and lied on I9. This was sometime in 1998. (I think I checked the combo box of citizen/national but my lawyer has me doubting that now. But 10% chance I checked greencard).

Then we applied for green card. I listed my job on application. My green card was approved.

3 years later, I decided to apply for citizenship but saw the question about false claim of citizenship. So I consulted a lawyer. He said to wait 10 years and then apply for citizenship.

In 2008, consulted another lawyer, he said there is too much going on with immigration, just renew green card now and get citizenship in 10 years since consequences of false claim are so high.

Now once again my green card is about to expire (in 2 years). With current political environment, I have my friends and family telling me to apply for citizenship as soon as possible. While unlikely, they are worried that greencards might get cancelled. (I know I know).

I went to 2 lawyers this time and strangely they both recommended I should apply for citizenship and I have nothing to worry about. Even after I told them that I listed the job on my green card application. They said since now I9 has separate boxes for citizen and national, IO are not focusing on old I9s and even if they do, I9 likely doesn't exist.

I asked them what should I say if IO ask me about how I got the job. One said to say you meant US national. Other asked me if I was really sure about which box I checked, I said about 90%. He said then tell them you are not sure which box you checked.

They both seem convinced I have nothing to worry about but they also told me if I am really nervous than immigration officer will pick on it and then they might investigate my application further. They also said that green card will not be cancelled that easily. If I am too afraid to apply for citizenship then I can continue to renew greencard. They usually just look at criminal background check during greencard. But there is always a chance they might look at the original application.

Normally, I would not be so worried about anything, worse comes to worse I go back to my old country. But I have 4 kids, my eldest daughter is in college. My youngest is in middle school. I just want to be here long enough to get my children through college. I know I made a mistake but I am hoping my mistake won't effect my kids.

What would you do? Should I risk applying for citizenship given my case or should I just continue to renew my green card? Any chance they will repeal this law or add waivers for it? (I also read about Cancellation but I am not sure if I would qualify since it happened within 7 years.)

If I were you, I wouldn't risk my future, life, families and job to apply for citizenship. The current political situation has no effect on your permanent residency.

[Caykay1 71]

From what I understand, you state places you've worked in the past to show you've been living in the country same goes for listing previous addresses. I don't know but I'm sure if you lied about your status on a job application, it can really hurt your citizenship application. Most time they ask you any findings and you explain. If you don't have anything else, I wouldn't worry.

You are lucky that it was the old I-9. If you're not sure what you checked, you should say so. If they dig it up (unlikely) and the citizen/national checkbox is checked, you can say you meant to claim to be a US national NOT a US citizen.

Waiting 10 years does not make a difference. False claim to US citizenship is a permanent, unwaiverable ban, but luckily you can get out of it due to the old I-9 form.

Exactly what I'm thinking. If he has clean background and has been a good law abiding resident, I think he can get through with the process.

[txl344655 7]

The application (and the interviewer) asks if you have ever claimed to be a U.S. Citizen. Based on your answer, it appears that you are not certain as to this. You should be able to answer NO to that question, because you don't believe the answer is in the affirmative with a high degree of certainty. This goes for both the question in the application and the question posed by the interviewer.

Also, Form I-9 is not filed electronically with the government (unless employer is E-verify, but E-verify is a relatively recent system, https://www.uscis.gov/e-verify/about-program/history-and-milestones).

Form I-9 is supposed to be kept by the employer at their place of business until the later of either 3 years from the date of hiring or 1 year from the date of termination. (https://www.uscis.gov/i-9-central/retain-store-form-i-9/retaining-form-i-9). If you still work at the same employer (or have worked there within the last 1 year), it may make sense to get a copy of the from the employer to review your answer. If you verify that you claimed to be a citizen, you should NOT apply for naturalization.

If the employment ended a while ago, it will be close to impossible to get a copy of the form, for you or for the government.

I think you should go ahead and apply for the citizenship if you are not able to get a copy of the form I-9.

[EM_Vandaveer 2,364]

The application (and the interviewer) asks if you have ever claimed to be a U.S. Citizen. Based on your answer, it appears that you are not certain as to this. You should be able to answer NO to that question, because you don't believe the answer is in the affirmative with a high degree of certainty. This goes for both the question in the application and the question posed by the interviewer.

Also, Form I-9 is not filed electronically with the government (unless employer is E-verify, but E-verify is a relatively recent system, https://www.uscis.gov/e-verify/about-program/history-and-milestones).

Form I-9 is supposed to be kept by the employer at their place of business until the later of either 3 years from the date of hiring or 1 year from the date of termination. (https://www.uscis.gov/i-9-central/retain-store-form-i-9/retaining-form-i-9). If you still work at the same employer (or have worked there within the last 1 year), it may make sense to get a copy of the from the employer to review your answer. If you verify that you claimed to be a citizen, you should NOT apply for naturalization.

If the employment ended a while ago, it will be close to impossible to get a copy of the form, for you or for the government.

I think you should go ahead and apply for the citizenship if you are not able to get a copy of the form I-9.

Even if OP checked the US citizen/US national box (the old version of the I-9 form had these TOGETHER, under the same checkbox) OP's defense is that he meant to claim to be a US national and absolutely did NOT claim to be a US citizen. There is a difference and it's OP's saving grace.

[dazedandconfused6 6]

Thanks all.

Just to clarify a few more things, I worked only for a year at that job. Once I got green card, I was able to get a decent job fairly quick. Other than this no issues.

My delay in applying for citizenship is only to hope that the law would change. But it seems laws get tougher not easier.

It is a tough decision. I am not sure what action I will take yet.

I tell my kids that always research everything before you take any actions, big or small. Sometimes small things can have huge consequences.

[Loki_Go 126]

One thing to think about is what you're going to answer if the CO asks you why you held off applying for citizenship this long.

There are probably many different angles that may lead to this initial lie.

[txl344655 7]

In case you are able to determine with certainty whether you did check US Citizen/National box on the old I-9 form or not, it may be helpful to know that the defense that you checked that box as US National is likely not going to work.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-checking-citizen-national-form-i-9-can-ruin-your-chance-green-card.html

From the above link:

Crocock (plaintiff) argued that when he checked the “citizen or national” box, he was actually claiming to be a non-citizen national, and not a U.S. citizen. But the court ruled that the Immigration Judge's decision to deny the green card application was proper: that it is, the applicant has the responsibility to present enough evidence to show that he or she is admissible, and that Crocock did not present enough evidence to support his argument that he was claiming to be a national and not a citizen.

[dazedandconfused6 6]

Once again thank you for your input. I went back to one of the lawyers with new set of questions and wanted to update you just in case it might help someone else. But I recommend if you are in this situation, please talk to a lawyer. They see so many immigration cases that they are aware of how USCIS is processing cases at that moment.

Basically, he said again that odds of any sort of trouble is terribly low. His example was every time we drive, we risk a horrible accident but that doesn't prevent us from driving. Also he said he personally haven't seen any such case but has heard about it from other local lawyers.

I brought him list of cases where this was problem (old I9 with combined citizen/national box), he pointed out all of them involved either criminal element, or marriage immediately after removal proceedings were initiated, or applicant admitting during interview that he meant citizen and then changing their statements.

I asked him about possibility of law changes. There are or had been bills to change this law but it hasn't happened yet. He thinks because of harsh punishment of this violation, most IO don't want to know this and don't ask about it. If there is a wavier created then perhaps they will start looking closely at work history. Getting a wavier is not easy, so law change may create more issues.

I asked him about taking this long to apply for naturalization. He told this would not cause any concern. USCIS see many cases where people apply for citizenship after years or decades.

I asked him about green card renewal forever. He said that would be fine, but there is always a chance that they might review my original application. So green card renewal is not 100% foolproof. And I will have to deal with anxiety every 10 years. But as time goes by, the chances of that I-9's existences gets lower. As EM pointed out employers don't have to keep I9s forever, most prefer to discard them as soon as law permit because of liability issues. The biggest issue would be if employer was ever was audited while they had my I-9.

Another note, I told him I will not use his N-400 package and do application myself. He seemed convinced that I would not have any issues with or without him.

Last I will not yet apply for citizenship. Using his example, yes we still drive even when there is a chance that we will get in horrible accident. But we have to drive, we have no choice. But most of us don't jump out of plane, because most of us are not daredevils and we don't want to take unnecessary risks. (But if I had no choice, that is I needed green card, then it would be a different story.)

[TBoneTX 42,989]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. It certainly sounds like you found a candid and honest lawyer.

Good luck in however you choose to proceed.

[Rosrosie 0]

Once again thank you for your input. I went back to one of the lawyers with new set of questions and wanted to update you just in case it might help someone else. But I recommend if you are in this situation, please talk to a lawyer. They see so many immigration cases that they are aware of how USCIS is processing cases at that moment.

Basically, he said again that odds of any sort of trouble is terribly low. His example was every time we drive, we risk a horrible accident but that doesn't prevent us from driving. Also he said he personally haven't seen any such case but has heard about it from other local lawyers.

I brought him list of cases where this was problem (old I9 with combined citizen/national box), he pointed out all of them involved either criminal element, or marriage immediately after removal proceedings were initiated, or applicant admitting during interview that he meant citizen and then changing their statements.

I asked him about possibility of law changes. There are or had been bills to change this law but it hasn't happened yet. He thinks because of harsh punishment of this violation, most IO don't want to know this and don't ask about it. If there is a wavier created then perhaps they will start looking closely at work history. Getting a wavier is not easy, so law change may create more issues.

I asked him about taking this long to apply for naturalization. He told this would not cause any concern. USCIS see many cases where people apply for citizenship after years or decades.

I asked him about green card renewal forever. He said that would be fine, but there is always a chance that they might review my original application. So green card renewal is not 100% foolproof. And I will have to deal with anxiety every 10 years. But as time goes by, the chances of that I-9's existences gets lower. As EM pointed out employers don't have to keep I9s forever, most prefer to discard them as soon as law permit because of liability issues. The biggest issue would be if employer was ever was audited while they had my I-9.

Another note, I told him I will not use his N-400 package and do application myself. He seemed convinced that I would not have any issues with or without him.

Last I will not yet apply for citizenship. Using his example, yes we still drive even when there is a chance that we will get in horrible accident. But we have to drive, we have no choice. But most of us don't jump out of plane, because most of us are not daredevils and we don't want to take unnecessary risks. (But if I had no choice, that is I needed green card, then it would be a different story.)

Hope everything goes smoothly without too much hassle! I had my n400 interview earlier this month. I clearly remembered that the IO asked me whether I had ever claimed to be a US citizen while going through my application. Not every question in the application did she go through, but the IO did emphasize on this issue. Hope it helps.