AOS Interview - told to go to civil surgeon

[caphoto 10]

Hi fellow VJers.

Well, I thought today was the day that we would FINALLY get the green card approved. We had our interview in San Francisco, and I was super prepared. Turns out, we brought everything and the officer said he had no concerns about our marriage, but he had noticed that on my completed vaccination records (done by Knightsbridge in London, UK), the box that said that all the vaccinations were completed was not checked. Even though beside every vaccination it said that I had them, because the final box at the bottom confirming that wasn't checked, our green card will be delayed and we need to go see a civil surgeon to transcribe the vaccinations over and sign off on them. One box. ONE FREAKING BOX.

So because of that, we need to spend MORE money and waste MORE time doing this. So bummed.

To confirm, I emailed Knightsbridge back in October 2015 after I noticed the box wasn't checked, and they said that the embassy told them not to check it because it wasn't for an immigrant visa. So I'm not sure if the embassy or USCIS is supposed to make sure all the vaccinations are completed and then check the box or what....

Either way, I'm not sure why they waited until the interview to tell us, when they could've just sent us an RFE months ago.

Thought fellow UK K-1 visa holders would want to know.

[vpalermo85 62]

Ouch, that's rough. I know a lot of people were asking about that unchecked box from Knightsbridge before. Some people had mentioned that it wasn't a problem but I guess it just depends on the officer conducting the interview or going through the file. You may have saved a lot of people time by posting this but it may look like you won't be the only one with this problem.

Our box was unchecked but that was because Knightsbridge refused to confirm my husband's MMRs and the like because the form wasn't specific enough. We ran into an issue where the doctor's office was closed/burned down and the original records were lost in transit and NHS couldn't clearly confirm whether or not he had them. He of course did but he got them done again any way after we got married so we needed the civil surgeon's signature anyway.

[caphoto 10]

Ouch, that's rough. I know a lot of people were asking about that unchecked box from Knightsbridge before. Some people had mentioned that it wasn't a problem but I guess it just depends on the officer conducting the interview or going through the file. You may have saved a lot of people time by posting this but it may look like you won't be the only one with this problem.

Our box was unchecked but that was because Knightsbridge refused to confirm my husband's MMRs and the like because the form wasn't specific enough. We ran into an issue where the doctor's office was closed/burned down and the original records were lost in transit and NHS couldn't clearly confirm whether or not he had them. He of course did but he got them done again any way after we got married so we needed the civil surgeon's signature anyway.

Oh wow that sucks! I'm sorry you had to go through that, what a nightmare.

Yeah I did say to the officer what Knightsbridge had said, and to be fair on him, he did go and speak to someone higher up to make sure he was right....sadly they agreed with him! Maybe it's San Francisco specific though because I know other people from the UK that have gone elsewhere and haven't had to get it done by a civil surgeon. I don't understand why Knightsbridge can't just check the box?! It would save a lot of hassle.

I have just been phoning around local civil surgeons and finally found one that agreed to just fill in the vaccinations portion without doing the full medical

[vpalermo85 62]

Someone seriously needs to sit down with Knightsbridge so they get their process straight. When my husband went to the vaccination clinic in NY the nurse supposedly mentioned they screw up often on the form since they also forgot to note he had the polio vaccination.

That's good though! Hopefully it doesn't delay you too long.

By the way, your photos on your website are absolutely GORGEOUS. You have some serious talent

[caphoto 10]

Someone seriously needs to sit down with Knightsbridge so they get their process straight. When my husband went to the vaccination clinic in NY the nurse supposedly mentioned they screw up often on the form since they also forgot to note he had the polio vaccination.

That's good though! Hopefully it doesn't delay you too long.

By the way, your photos on your website are absolutely GORGEOUS. You have some serious talent

Oh, thank you so much! That's so nice of you to say :) My website is always a work in progress but I just so happened to update it recently!

Ugh, I know. Knightsbridge are a pain in the ###! There are definitely wires crossed somewhere. I've emailed them to tell them about this though. I doubt it will make any difference but it's worth a shot!

[yuna628 9,528]

This is the reason a lot of people have received RFEs because of the tickbox not being checked. Recently Knightsbridge has been giving a page 2, which states something to the effect of ''vaccinations are complete''. Some have had success emailing Knightsbridge to have page 2 sent to them. And yes, many of us did argue this point with Knightsbridge which flat out refused to budge on this issue.

[Nich-Nick 3,353]

The USCIS policy manual states:

"The officer should be aware that civil surgeons may improperly mark the boxes because they may misunderstand the meaning of these boxes. Therefore, the officer should determine, from the vaccination assessment completed by the civil surgeon, whether the applicant received all vaccines, which blanket waivers should be granted, and whether the applicant requires any ​other waivers. The officer should exercise discretion in reviewing the vaccination chart and when evaluating the results boxes at the bottom of the vaccination assessment chart. ​ ​If the civil surgeon did not check any result boxes, the officer should only return the form for corrective action if he or she is unable to ascertain whether the applicant is admissible. "

It says they should actually look at the vaccines and determine if they were given and not go by check boxes.

Knightsbridge is getting the guidance on the new version of the form from the CDC. http://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/exams/ti/panel/revised-department-state-medical-examination-forms.html

For section 2, which box should be checked for non-immigrant and refugee applicants?

Section 2 on the DS 2054 refers only to immigrant visa applicants. Non-immigrant and refugee applicants are exempt from vaccination requirements. Panel physicians should leave this section blank for non-immigrant or refugee applicants.

They are actually following the rules given to them (I think).

Oh wait, there's more--

In Section 2, the blanket waiver option is now under the heading entitled "US vaccination requirements complete. However, on the previous version of the form, this option was listed under "Vaccination history incomplete. Please explain this change.

When CDC revised the forms, this language was changed from Vaccination history to US vaccination requirements to better reflect the needs of the medical examination for visa purposes. Thus, an applicant requesting a blanket waiver would satisfy US vaccination requirements.

This differs from the scenarios listed under US vaccination requirements incomplete, in which the US vaccination requirements are not satisfied.

What box should be checked for an applicant who is not required to get vaccinations by a panel physician (such as Non-Immigrant Visa (NIV) and refugee applicants)?

In some cases, such applicants have the option of receiving vaccinations by a panel physician. However, they are not required to do so. In these cases, if an applicant is not vaccinated by the panel physician, he or she is not requesting exemption, but rather is simply choosing to receive them once he or she is in the United States. In this case, you should leave the DS 3025 blank. It may also be helpful to record that the applicant will be vaccinated in the US, but this is not required by CDC.

The second question seems to leave the door open if they choose to get the shots.

Edited July 1, 2016 by Nich-Nick

[caphoto 10]

This is the reason a lot of people have received RFEs because of the tickbox not being checked. Recently Knightsbridge has been giving a page 2, which states something to the effect of ''vaccinations are complete''. Some have had success emailing Knightsbridge to have page 2 sent to them. And yes, many of us did argue this point with Knightsbridge which flat out refused to budge on this issue.

Good to know! I'm glad they are doing this, hopefully it will help future applicants avoid the situation we are in just now.

The USCIS policy manual states:

"The officer should be aware that civil surgeons may improperly mark the boxes because they may misunderstand the meaning of these boxes. Therefore, the officer should determine, from the vaccination assessment completed by the civil surgeon, whether the applicant received all vaccines, which blanket waivers should be granted, and whether the applicant requires any ​other waivers. The officer should exercise discretion in reviewing the vaccination chart and when evaluating the results boxes at the bottom of the vaccination assessment chart. ​ ​If the civil surgeon did not check any result boxes, the officer should only return the form for corrective action if he or she is unable to ascertain whether the applicant is admissible. "

It says they should actually look at the vaccines and determine if they were given and not go by check boxes.

Knightsbridge is getting the guidance on the new version of the form from the CDC. http://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/exams/ti/panel/revised-department-state-medical-examination-forms.html

For section 2, which box should be checked for non-immigrant and refugee applicants?

Section 2 on the DS 2054 refers only to immigrant visa applicants. Non-immigrant and refugee applicants are exempt from vaccination requirements. Panel physicians should leave this section blank for non-immigrant or refugee applicants.

They are actually following the rules given to them (I think).

Oh wait, there's more--

In Section 2, the blanket waiver option is now under the heading entitled "US vaccination requirements complete. However, on the previous version of the form, this option was listed under "Vaccination history incomplete. Please explain this change.

When CDC revised the forms, this language was changed from Vaccination history to US vaccination requirements to better reflect the needs of the medical examination for visa purposes. Thus, an applicant requesting a blanket waiver would satisfy US vaccination requirements.

This differs from the scenarios listed under US vaccination requirements incomplete, in which the US vaccination requirements are not satisfied.

What box should be checked for an applicant who is not required to get vaccinations by a panel physician (such as Non-Immigrant Visa (NIV) and refugee applicants)?

In some cases, such applicants have the option of receiving vaccinations by a panel physician. However, they are not required to do so. In these cases, if an applicant is not vaccinated by the panel physician, he or she is not requesting exemption, but rather is simply choosing to receive them once he or she is in the United States. In this case, you should leave the DS 3025 blank. It may also be helpful to record that the applicant will be vaccinated in the US, but this is not required by CDC.

The second question seems to leave the door open if they choose to get the shots.

Thanks Nich-Nick, so it appears our Officer should have just made the call (he said it himself he could see that I had all the vaccinations). That's so frustrating. I had my medical last summer so I guess they were still using the older versions of the forms. Hopefully these newer forms cause less confusion!

[Nich-Nick 3,353]

Good to know! I'm glad they are doing this, hopefully it will help future applicants avoid the situation we are in just now.

Thanks Nich-Nick, so it appears our Officer should have just made the call (he said it himself he could see that I had all the vaccinations). That's so frustrating. I had my medical last summer so I guess they were still using the older versions of the forms. Hopefully these newer forms cause less confusion!

The previous form they checked the box. You have the newer version which has caused new problems.

You should contact your officer and ask if that section in the policy manual applies to you. But yes, I think some officers don't study all the details and K1s are a bit quirky and don't fit the general well-known policies.

[caphoto 10]

The previous form they checked the box. You have the newer version which has caused new problems.

You should contact your officer and ask if that section in the policy manual applies to you. But yes, I think some officers don't study all the details and K1s are a bit quirky and don't fit the general well-known policies.

I managed to get an appointment at 9.30 tomorrow with a civil surgeon so I think I'm just going to go and see what happens. It's pretty cheap anyway and I'm not sure I can be bothered arguing again with the Officer - he kept saying over and over that he couldn't sign off on it because he 'wasn't a doctor'. I'm doubtful he would budge on his decision - it would mean admitting that he was wrong

[admendoz25 3]

Hi fellow VJers.

Well, I thought today was the day that we would FINALLY get the green card approved. We had our interview in San Francisco, and I was super prepared. Turns out, we brought everything and the officer said he had no concerns about our marriage, but he had noticed that on my completed vaccination records (done by Knightsbridge in London, UK), the box that said that all the vaccinations were completed was not checked. Even though beside every vaccination it said that I had them, because the final box at the bottom confirming that wasn't checked, our green card will be delayed and we need to go see a civil surgeon to transcribe the vaccinations over and sign off on them. One box. ONE FREAKING BOX.

So because of that, we need to spend MORE money and waste MORE time doing this. So bummed.

To confirm, I emailed Knightsbridge back in October 2015 after I noticed the box wasn't checked, and they said that the embassy told them not to check it because it wasn't for an immigrant visa. So I'm not sure if the embassy or USCIS is supposed to make sure all the vaccinations are completed and then check the box or what....

Either way, I'm not sure why they waited until the interview to tell us, when they could've just sent us an RFE months ago.

Thought fellow UK K-1 visa holders would want to know.

Hi!

To my understanding, K1s do not receive vaccine shots at their home country as part of the K1 Visa procedure. We are asked about them during the appointment with the doctor and I guess the he makes it clear, while filling out form DS-3025, that we have received vaccines for MDR (example) as we showed a valid proof.

However, by reading instructions on this site, official USCIS info and other sources, we still need to see an authorized civil surgeon. We let them see we have received the vaccines, they will fill out form I963 and sign it.

I agree with you when you say the IO should have asked for evidence (RFE) so you wouldn't lose time by going to the interview.

Anyways, I suppose you already have an EAD and that's what really matters at first. You'll get your GC soon.

Good luck!

[yuna628 9,528]

Hi!

To my understanding, K1s do not receive vaccine shots at their home country as part of the K1 Visa procedure. We are asked about them during the appointment with the doctor and I guess the he makes it clear, while filling out form DS-3025, that we have received vaccines for MDR (example) as we showed a valid proof.

However, by reading instructions on this site, official USCIS info and other sources, we still need to see an authorized civil surgeon. We let them see we have received the vaccines, they will fill out form I963 and sign it.

I agree with you when you say the IO should have asked for evidence (RFE) so you wouldn't lose time by going to the interview.

Anyways, I suppose you already have an EAD and that's what really matters at first. You'll get your GC soon.

Good luck!

No. For UK specific K1, K1's can receive their vaccinations at the approved panel location (Knightsbridge) or they can obtain the vaccinations via their GP beforehand and bring the proof to Knightsbridge during the exam. HOWEVER, it is not an official requirement for a K1 to be vaccinated to obtain their fiancé visa. Once stateside, if they still have not received their vaccinations then they must go to the US civil surgeon in order to AOS. This is why, Knightsbridge often wrongly gives out misleading advice to K1s ''oh you don't have to get your vaccinations here.. you can get them in the US''. You can get the vaccines in the US, for a lot more hassle and money.

A K1 who has received the completed vaccinations already (which Knightsbridge signs off on) should already be good to go. The original medical and vaccination documents go in the applicant's file, and the officer reviewing the AOS should take notice of the DS3025 and use their best judgment to see if the person has already previously been cleared.

Knightsbridge's failure to check the box indicating vaccinations complete for immigration purposes, is the issue (which presented itself with the new forms), compounded with the officer not using their best judgment. Knightsbridge is treating the K1 as a non-immigrant visa (which it is), but it is a visa with dual immigrant intent. The I-693 instructions clearly state, that even if you do not need to submit an I-693 that evidence should be submitted in the event that the DS3025 isn't properly filled out (which Knightsbridge had been wrongly doing). Beyond that tick-box, or in cases where the applicant never received their vaccinations for whatever reason - there should be no reason why a K1 who has already been signed off on, needs to be signed off on again. It's yet another layer of needless bureaucracy and lack of training on the part of the government.

[caphoto 10]

No. For UK specific K1, K1's can receive their vaccinations at the approved panel location (Knightsbridge) or they can obtain the vaccinations via their GP beforehand and bring the proof to Knightsbridge during the exam. HOWEVER, it is not an official requirement for a K1 to be vaccinated to obtain their fiancé visa. Once stateside, if they still have not received their vaccinations then they must go to the US civil surgeon in order to AOS. This is why, Knightsbridge often wrongly gives out misleading advice to K1s ''oh you don't have to get your vaccinations here.. you can get them in the US''. You can get the vaccines in the US, for a lot more hassle and money.

A K1 who has received the completed vaccinations already (which Knightsbridge signs off on) should already be good to go. The original medical and vaccination documents go in the applicant's file, and the officer reviewing the AOS should take notice of the DS3025 and use their best judgment to see if the person has already previously been cleared.

Knightsbridge's failure to check the box indicating vaccinations complete for immigration purposes, is the issue (which presented itself with the new forms), compounded with the officer not using their best judgment. Knightsbridge is treating the K1 as a non-immigrant visa (which it is), but it is a visa with dual immigrant intent. The I-693 instructions clearly state, that even if you do not need to submit an I-693 that evidence should be submitted in the event that the DS3025 isn't properly filled out (which Knightsbridge had been wrongly doing). Beyond that tick-box, or in cases where the applicant never received their vaccinations for whatever reason - there should be no reason why a K1 who has already been signed off on, needs to be signed off on again. It's yet another layer of needless bureaucracy and lack of training on the part of the government.

Exactly - what makes is frustrating is that the embassy tells Knightsbridge not to tick either of the boxes at the bottom (according to them), either to say that the vaccinations are complete or to say that they qualify for a blanket waiver. I'm not sure why they are told this because that seems to be what USCIS wants to be checked so they don't have to make a judgement call (in my case, anyway).

Oh well, we've already spent $3500, what's a few bucks more?!

In other news, I went to a civil surgeon this morning and they filled out the vaccination portion of I-693 no problem. It's all sealed up in an envelope ready to be sent to USCIS. I'm glad I just have to mail it to the local office in San Francisco and it doesn't need to go through the whole system again. Hopefully it won't be too long before I have my green card in hand - I'm definitely looking forward to not having to go through secondary inspection at customs every time I leave the country!

Hope everyone else's AOS is going smoothly!