Detained by law enforcement

[Hypnos 6,576]

Since this was the first time this has happened, well, ever, I figured I'd post this here to let new immigrants know might happen to them here in the US with regards to interacting with law enforcement.

As part of my exercise routine I have taken to doing long walks (3-4-5 miles) around town. I was out and about today, walking around a place I've walked around plenty of times before, when I saw a Sheriff's Deputy cruiser go past me. I noticed it, and carried on walking. A couple of minutes later another Sheriff's Deputy cruiser came towards me in the opposite direction and drove past (it was probably the same one, but I'm not 100%). Again, I carry on walking. Finally, a different Sheriff's Deputy cruiser pulls up directly in front of me, and indicates I should stop. I then notice that the first Sheriff's Deputy has pulled up behind me, so I'm sandwiched between the two.

I stood there, stopped my podcast (I had a Bluetooth headset on) and waited. One of the officers approached me and said something like “What are you doing out here today”, to which I said something like “Walking”. He then said “Do you have ID on you?”, to which I replied, “Yes”. He said “Can I see it?”. At this point I asked him “Am I being detained?” and he replied “I'm just asking a question”. I repeated, “Am I being detained?” and added “Am I free to go?” He got a bit flustered at this point, and said “I need to talk to my colleague” (the other officer who had pulled up in front of me). The other officer, as he was walking away from me, told me to take my hands out of my pockets, which I did.

They talked for about a minute, before the officer who had been speaking to me came back and said something like “You aren't being detained, but we would like to see your ID”. I asked “So I'm free to go?” He said “Yes”, at which point I told him to enjoy his afternoon, turned around, started my podcast and continued to walk down the road.

In my mind I thought “Bullet = dodged” and that was that.

At the end of the street that I was on was a small bridge, at which I usually stop for a few minutes before turning around to head home. One of my shoelaces was loose, so I got to the bridge, stood to the side, untied both of my shoelaces and re-tied them. I finished this and took a look at my phone, saw I had a text and started to read it. At this point the two Sheriff's Deputy cruisers pulled up to the bridge, got out of their cars and approached me again. The second officer (the one I had not spoken with earlier) told me that now I was blocking a public highway, was being detained, and said I had to give him my ID. I took my ID out of my wallet, gave it to the first officer, put my wallet back in my jacket and then the second officer told me to put my hands on my head and turn around so he could pat me down for weapons. I complied, and of course he found nothing. When he was done I asked him if I could take my cellphone out of my pocket. He told me no, that because I was being detained I couldn't make any calls at this time. I replied that I was not going to make a call but was instead going to start recording. He said no, and that there was no need because I was currently being recorded by the dashcam from his car and also the mic on his jacket. I replied that I didn't doubt what he said but I wanted to make my own recording. He again said “No”.

So we're standing there and he starts asking me things like what I was doing out here. I told him that I was walking for exercise, and that I come around this area often. He said that this is a “high crime area” and that people don't observe the speed limit across the bridge all the time, and that I shouldn't stop on this bridge for my own safety. I asked him how long this was going to take, and he replied “Until he has run your ID for warrants”.

Since I was being so...annoying... I guess would be the word, he said something like “Given how you are acting, have you had any issues with law enforcement in the past to make you act this way?” I believe I responded something like “I am aware of my constitutional rights and know that I don't have to answer your questions unless I am being detained”. He seemed very non-commitable about this answer. They asked me how long I had lived in this town, and I replied. He asked me where I was from, and I replied “England”. They asked me why I had come to this country, and I replied “A girl”. They said “Are you still together?” and I informed them that my wife had died three years ago, and they said they were very sorry to hear that.

After another couple of minutes of me standing there looking like an idiot, the first officer came back, handed my ID back and told me that I was free to go. I put it back in my pocket, started up my podcast, wished them a good afternoon and walked back the way I had came.

To me it seemed like the "blocking a highway" claim they made on the second stop was a pretext to get my ID and run it, but I'm unfamiliar with the intricacies of Texas traffic law so maybe they had a legitimate reason to stop me, but it didn't seem like it.

Welcome to America.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Hypnos

[iawait 9]

Wow!!!!

[belinda63 2,981]

You did the right things. There is no requirement to show ID unless you are driving. There is no requirement to answer any questions unless you are detained and then only what is needed to identify yourself. Police are know to make up reasons to detain a person just so they can try to find something to charge them with. I can't count the number of times I have been pulled over for "swerving" while driving just because I was driving on a highway know for having a lot of drunk drivers. After they determined I had not been drinking I was let go.

[ManCharsey 254]

Men and women (including cops) lie, numbers don't.

[No name 88 48]

So your telling me if you let them run your ID you'd be on your way a lot sooner. If they called a second car you looked like someone with a warrant.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

That's crazy. Welcome to Texas, I guess. There is a reason I stay far, far away from that place.

[N-o-l-a 7,167]

Sounds an awfully lot like this story:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2565583/Amanda-Jo-Stephen-arrest-Police-chief-goes-sarcastic-rant-defending-arrest-jogger-grabbed-hand-handcuffed-didnt-hear-cops-telling-stop-headphones.html

[Hypnos 6,576]

So your telling me if you let them run your ID you'd be on your way a lot sooner. If they called a second car you looked like someone with a warrant.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated".

Edited February 22, 2014 by Hypnos

[christeen 966]

The way I see it, you acted suspicious with the whole "am I being detained" which was kind of a d1ckish move on your part IMO... Probaby set off alarm bells with the cops because generally only criminals or lawyers know these "rights" and technicalities by heart... Since you had nothing to hide, you could have easily shown them the ID to begin with and would have saved yourself the whole bridge rigmarole... Was it pissy of the cops, yes, but you did not help yourself too much by pulling lines from Law and Order either... Made them more suspicious than they were. Reverse it and think, what if there was a real criminal walk g the streets where you were and the cops did nothing to attempt to stop them?

[Hypnos 6,576]

I don't see why you feel the need to put "rights" in quotes. They are either rights, in which case they apply to everyone equally (not just people who watch Law and Order) or they aren't.

When it comes to constitutional rights it's "use them or lose them".

As someone who recently became a US citizen (or their spouse) your apathy towards civil rights disappoints me.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Hypnos

[No name 88 48]

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated".

I'm familiar with Terry Stops. That's a battle you won't win. The one thing I've learned in my travels is you are never smarter than a cop. Be a d!ck and they will find a way to screw you.

I was a d!ck to a cop in Angola asking for ID. When I finally gave him my passport he ripped out my biometrics page and handed it back saying your free to go with a laugh. Luckily I gave him my secondary passport.

[lost_at_sea 995]

Wow. Good on your for standing your ground. I've heard similar stories actually from the UK (the stop and frisk stuff) and folks standing their ground, recording everything etc. I'm impressed by people who have the guts to stand up and execute their rights, particularly in gun-wielding America. I don't think I would have been able to.

Funny - I was just chatting to a colleague the other day about when he lived in Texas. He said the highway cops there were forever pulling people over for no reason. First time I've heard of someone getting "pulled over" for just walking, though (in that bit of the world).

Out of curiosity, was the bit you were in really a high crime area, or were they using that as an excuse?

Edited February 22, 2014 by lost_at_sea

[Damian P 92]

To be perfectly fair, if you're from the Black Country he probably didn't understand a ###### word you were saying anyway. Yam-Yam.

[Hypnos 6,576]

Wow. If a law enforcement officer defaced my passport I would not be happy since those are not cheap to replace.

I have some irons in the fire with regards to getting redress; it seems the local newspaper might be interested in running a story on it. Plus some other things that probably won't pan out, but I at least made the attempt.

I'm not looking to ignite some big debate here; there are some people who will read this and think "Why didn't he just give them his ID the first time? That's what I would have done" and if something like this happens to you you are absolutely free to do that. I am a little more of a pain in the ####, aware of my rights and don't really respond well to fishing expeditions, such as this one. I made mistakes (I should have declined to answer any of their questions on the bridge, since they were essentially pumping me for information) but overall did more right than wrong.

As to the high crime area, I have no idea if that is true or not. Short of walking there every few days I am not really familiar with that end of town; it's kind of beat up in places, but nice in others. Also, the part that I was walking down had literally no houses, it's just a long highway, with a field on one side and a cemetery on the other. It's actually quite peaceful, which is why I like going down there as it's so quiet. This is another reason why I was in a little disbelief when he said I was "blocking the highway", as there was no traffic to block. If that road see 10 cars every hour I'd be surprised. Ironically, the bridge where they stopped me the second time has a Crimestoppers sign next to it.

And yes, the Black Country accent is a beautiful thing to behold It's funny, when I'm talking to an American I often hear myself talking up (i.e. downplaying my black country accent and beginning to talk like a BBC announcer) unintentionally.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Hypnos

[N-o-l-a 7,167]

I absolutely would not have given ID the first time, a lot of people go out walking without it anyway (I don't carry ID). It isn't a law to carry identification and there is no law mandating you have any.